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Waiting for the 2020 MBP

awesomedeluxe said:
It looks like Intel has confirmed that their 7nm CPUs won't ship until 2022, and the only 7nm parts in 2021 will be their new GPUs. This confirms what many of us had suspected about Intel's roadmap.

It also confirms why Apple had to go with a larger design for the 16". Intel's 10nm process does not offer clear advantages over the existing 14nm++ process, and 7nm is a ways away. It's really too bad, but there's nothing available in the near term that could work for a slimmer chassis.

I hope Apple does start working with AMD this year on the CPU-side and gets a head start on working through the chip's power management issues, because the most optimistic thing on the horizon is AMD's Zen 4. That could be arriving as soon as 2021 on TSMC's 5nm process, and it's still early enough for AMD and Apple to begin working together to have a semicustom part ready for Apple at launch.
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It's a leap to assume that the size is because of the chip fab size and thermals. A leap too far, really. The size is really quite nice and gives you a ton of battery power and therefore battery life. Apple has a super lightweight offering that's doing quite fine, so there's no reason to make the large laptop thinner/lighter.

The false equivalence between marketing numbers for fab processes and performance is a bit tiresome.
 
Im wondering...will apple drop the 128GB entry storage option with the upcoming 13”? They did go up with the entry 16” from 256 to 512. It would be really nice....
My problem right now is the following:
If I configured right now a 13” Macbook Pro with 512 GB storage and 16 GB Ram (since its starting from 128GB and 8GB) at the end Im almost at the price of the 16” Macbook Pro, but without the better cpu and graphics...that is so silly...
I dont want the 16” but if the price difference is that small...
 
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livetofail said:
Im wondering...will apple drop the 128GB entry storage option with the upcoming 13”? They did go up with the entry 16” from 256 to 512. It would be really nice....
My problem right now is the following:
If I configured right now a 13” Macbook Pro with 512 GB storage and 16 GB Ram (since its starting from 128GB and 8GB) at the end Im almost at the proce of the 16” Macbook Pro, but without the better cpu and graphics...that is so silly...
I dont want the 16” but if the price difference is that small...
Click to expand...

Thats exactly the boat I am in. Its like I might as well get the 16” because of the small price difference. Gonna wait until the next revision before making a choice
 
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BootLoxes said:
Thats exactly the boat I am in. Its like I might as well get the 16” because of the small price difference. Gonna wait until the next revision before making a choice
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Some people (I know quite a few) who do nothing but literally just browse the internet and use basic apps like word/notes, who benefit from low storage/cost saving I guess. I know a lot of people gave grief to Dell for a 4GB RAM/128GB variant but I think they know there are those who actually just want a cheap basic computer.

I guess one could argue they are better suited to something like an Air though I guess.
 
livetofail said:
Im wondering...will apple drop the 128GB entry storage option with the upcoming 13”? They did go up with the entry 16” from 256 to 512. It would be really nice....
My problem right now is the following:
If I configured right now a 13” Macbook Pro with 512 GB storage and 16 GB Ram (since its starting from 128GB and 8GB) at the end Im almost at the price of the 16” Macbook Pro, but without the better cpu and graphics...that is so silly...
I dont want the 16” but if the price difference is that small...
Click to expand...


I was looking at this the other day too and had a similar observation. I suspect we'll see some "right sizing" on the specs of the new 13".
 
BootLoxes said:
Thats exactly the boat I am in. Its like I might as well get the 16” because of the small price difference. Gonna wait until the next revision before making a choice
Click to expand...

I would happily pay for a beefed up 14" macbook pro - especially if they find a way to get discrete graphics in there. It's basically the perfect computer for someone who needs more horsepower than an Air, but still prefer a smaller footprint. In the dream world where this 14" MBP exists anyways.
 
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Even with the 16” only being a few months old, when are we thinking the 2020 16” might launch and what might it realistically have?

Likely Items:
  • WiFi 6
  • Intel 10th Gen
What other items are realistic?
 
DHagan4755 said:
Discrete graphics aren't happening in the smaller MacBook Pro. The heat would be a problem & the battery life will suffer too.
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Maybe the parts used in the larger mbp then yes. But if they introduce weaker gpus that produce less heat, then those could go in the 14”. Razer blade stealth has been using a 150 mobile nvidia gpu in the 13” for a while now with no issues. Not sure if that chips been updated since i stopped following around the time the 250 was announced.
 
Discrete GPU has always been a USP of the larger laptop, I genuinely can't see that changing any time soon.

Its also always been the case that by the time you spec-up a 13", the 15"16" starts to look like a better option. The flip side to that is some people just don't want a larger laptop to carry around.

I think the lineup and differences between the 13 & 16 are very clear and make sense. I'd still like to see a new 14" with improved speakers & keyboard base on whatever the current intel chipset is. And a 256GB SSD in the base model would be a big step in the right direction.
 
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DHagan4755 said:
Discrete graphics aren't happening in the smaller MacBook Pro. The heat would be a problem & the battery life will suffer too.
Click to expand...
ascender said:
Discrete GPU has always been a USP of the larger laptop, I genuinely can't see that changing any time soon.
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Yes. I think we may even see the 13/14" slim down a bit, potentially displacing the Macbook / Air. We haven't seen the new design, so really anything is possible, but Intel is pushing the 28-or-less W package with strong internal graphics pretty hard.

BootLoxes said:
Maybe the parts used in the larger mbp then yes. But if they introduce weaker gpus that produce less heat, then those could go in the 14”. Razer blade stealth has been using a 150 mobile nvidia gpu in the 13” for a while now with no issues. Not sure if that chips been updated since i stopped following around the time the 250 was announced.
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Well, the first problem is that Apple doesn't really use nVidia. It is possible that Apple makes the 13 a little bigger, but I'm not sure what they could accomplish with the extra space. I'm not aware that AMD even has a good low-power discrete part they could make room for. I guess... here it comes again... they could use Renoir, which could give you a lot more power.

socialwill said:
Even with the 16” only being a few months old, when are we thinking the 2020 16” might launch and what might it realistically have?

Likely Items:
  • WiFi 6
  • Intel 10th Gen
What other items are realistic?
Click to expand...

If by realistic you mean "I don't want to be hurt by dreaming too big," that's an exhaustive list right there. But this is a thread for delusional people waiting endlessly for the next 2012 retina breakthrough 😉
 
Is that it by the way? Is the 16" MBP the new design cycle, equivalent to the 2016 iteration? Because I'm not really a fan of a screen that performs worse then its predecessor, same effective battery life, same input modes in return for a bugfixed keyboard and moderate performance improvements. Maybe everyones priorities are different, but I had hoped for a better color gamut, better contrast ratio, better battery life, next iteration of Touch Bar and a more robust design. My 2013 works still like a tank, while sitting on the 4th post 2016 MBP with issues.
 
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awesomedeluxe said:
Well, the first problem is that Apple doesn't really use nVidia. It is possible that Apple makes the 13 a little bigger, but I'm not sure what they could accomplish with the extra space. I'm not aware that AMD even has a good low-power discrete part they could make room for. I guess... here it comes again... they could use Renoir, which could give you a lot more power.
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I know they dont use nvidia. I was just giving an example of one company pulling it off on such a small body. I know AMD made a custom gpu for the surface 15" that was recently released. It isnt hard to believe they could make another custom gpu for the mbp 13-14
 
eulslix said:
Is that it by the way? Is the 16" MBP the new design cycle, equivalent to the 2016 iteration? Because I'm not really a fan of a screen that performs worse then its predecessor, same effective battery life, same input modes in return for a bugfixed keyboard and moderate performance improvements. Maybe everyones priorities are different, but I had hoped for a better color gamut, better contrast ratio, better battery life, next iteration of Touch Bar and a more robust design. My 2013 works still like a tank, while sitting on the 4th post 2016 MBP with issues.
Click to expand...

I hear you, same with my 15” 2013! I had really hoped to “upgrade” to the 16” but it looks like I’ll be waiting again...
 
He seems to be saying 10nm H class from Intel is around the corner- March 31st which would lead us to a WWDC refresh. I had thought the new 10th generation were not going down to 10nm
wccftech.com

Intel Is Launching These Three New 10th Generation Mobility Processors In Late March

So, I have an update to our earlier exclusive on Intel 10th generation mobility processors and this information supersedes the previous one. Not only do I have the exact model of the CPUs that Intel will be launching, but a date on when the embargo lifts as well. Intel is going to be launching...
wccftech.com wccftech.com
 
BootLoxes said:
I know they dont use nvidia. I was just giving an example of one company pulling it off on such a small body. I know AMD made a custom gpu for the surface 15" that was recently released. It isnt hard to believe they could make another custom gpu for the mbp 13-14
Click to expand...

That's a semi-custom APU based on Picasso. The difference is important; AMD succeeds in getting that graphics power in a slim machine only by putting the graphics compute units on the same die as their own CPU cores.

I mentioned Renoir, AMD's recently announced APU architecture, in my response. Apple could possibly pull off the kind of graphics performance you're looking for by using an AMD APU just like MS did, and AMD's upcoming Renoir APU is an extremely promising product. But this would be a very large architectural change.

gadgetfreaky said:
He seems to be saying 10nm H class from Intel is around the corner- March 31st which would lead us to a WWDC refresh. I had thought the new 10th generation were not going down to 10nm
wccftech.com

Intel Is Launching These Three New 10th Generation Mobility Processors In Late March

So, I have an update to our earlier exclusive on Intel 10th generation mobility processors and this information supersedes the previous one. Not only do I have the exact model of the CPUs that Intel will be launching, but a date on when the embargo lifts as well. Intel is going to be launching...
wccftech.com wccftech.com
Click to expand...

Wild if true. But not impossible. The pressure on Intel from AMD is very real right now, and Renoir's 45W variant could very possibly clear the field because of the weaker graphics on the Comet Lake parts. It's also possible this is just Comet Lake (14nm) with the Ice Lake graphics part hastily bolted on.
 
gadgetfreaky said:
He seems to be saying 10nm H class from Intel is around the corner- March 31st which would lead us to a WWDC refresh. I had thought the new 10th generation were not going down to 10nm
wccftech.com

Intel Is Launching These Three New 10th Generation Mobility Processors In Late March

So, I have an update to our earlier exclusive on Intel 10th generation mobility processors and this information supersedes the previous one. Not only do I have the exact model of the CPUs that Intel will be launching, but a date on when the embargo lifts as well. Intel is going to be launching...
wccftech.com wccftech.com
Click to expand...
They aren’t, this was just the author’s questionable opinion. 10nm H is at least another year or two away, think about it, we just about got 10nm Y/U processors recently, no way is H series ready.
 
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Finally the wait is about to be over for an upgrade of my trusty early 2015 Macbook Pro.

After the encouraging 16 inch version (very nice, but prefer 13 for portability), am thinking the coming pro is finally the one.

Hoping for March release and not June. June feels like such a long time away
 
HellasLEAF said:
Finally the wait is about to be over for an upgrade of my trusty early 2015 Macbook Pro.

After the encouraging 16 inch version (very nice, but prefer 13 for portability), am thinking the coming pro is finally the one.

Hoping for March release and not June. June feels like such a long time away
Click to expand...
March refresh? Just 4(!) months from the original release?
No way!
 
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I do hope Apple increases the size of display in the upcoming smaller MacBook. Thinking about the form factor of older Macbooks, 2013 Macbook Air for example could house a 14.5" screen if you'd take away the chunky bezels and it's still regarded as a very portable, decent sized machine. 14"-14.5" would be ideal for a lot people from photographers to students and software developers who need portable device but just can't quite fit their workflow in that 13.3" display.
 
These March refresh chips are right on time - but they're 14nm. An octo-core i7 is sort of news, but Intel's had octo-cores in a mobile chip for a year (they call 'em i9s). A deca-core i9 would be news - but adding two cores when you already have eight is a smaller change than adding two when you started with four (or even six). Anything with eight cores and sub-45 watt power consumption would also be news (how far under 45w determining the size of the news)

If they're 10nm, they're huge news, but they're also completely off any roadmap we've seen. Not only are we expecting 14nm Comet Lake in March, we're probably expecting another generation of 14nm chips (Rocket Lake) a year later. I'd be surprised if Rocket Lake didn't feature a core count boost, but that's about it. My best guess:

Comet Lake (March '20) 14 nm 6-core i7, 8-core i9, 6-core 15-28w i7 (the real news and a significant performance boost to the smaller MBP - might also have improved GPU). Big MBP gets a few hundred MHz, nothing more. 13 or 14" MBP released with Comet Lake in March, 16" gets minor update by press release around WWDC.

Rocket Lake (early '21) 14nm 8-core i7, 10-core i9, 10nm (not Rocket Lake - something on Sunny Cove) 15-28w 6-core i7 with much improved GPU. Big update for 13-14" (10nm plus a major GPU boost - stays 6 core). Intermediate update for 16" (gains two cores, possibly a new Navi). 16" might get a minor "midlife kicker" redesign (WiFi 6, possibly Face ID and improved webcam, etc.).

Willow Cove architecture (Tiger Lake?) ~early '22 - finally 10nm at 45w - 13 or 14" MBP is already 10nm from previous year, gets a minor update. 16" gets big update (perhaps a redesign if there wasn't one in '21). A '22 redesign could be more significant.

Of course Apple could have moved to AMD's new mobile chips before then (30% chance? - becomes 70% if Willow Cove delayed yet again)...
 
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