Walmart Stands Firm on Why It Doesn't Accept Apple Pay in the U.S.

[nathansz]

Given what all is going on in the world right now, I don't care one iota about this personally

I can agree with that

Especially since I have no plans to visit the USA in the near future, for obvious reasons (even though I have family and friends there)

And even if I did I wouldn’t be rushing to Walmart

But reading some of the ridiculous, misinformed, and confused posts in this thread I find it hard to resist wanting to try to help part the clouds

 

[michaelsanchez0027]

I hope this is written by AI…

I agree with the statement.

Walmart cashiers always have complaints on when Walmart will have Apple Pay and tap to pay.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I hope this is written by AI…

Sure feels like it, I agree with you

 

[Reason077]

How does not allowing contactless payment reduce interchange fees?

Because they are trying to push their own payment solution which has lower transaction costs. For every customer they convince to use their Walmart app to pay instead of an EMV card or Apple Pay, Walmart saves money.

(Don't get me wrong, it's a crappy situation and I'd be annoyed by it too if I was a Walmart shopper in the US. But Walmart isn't the villain here, it's the Visa/Mastercard duopoly whose sky-high fees generate astronomical profits that you should be blaming. It's just that Walmart are the only ones with the scale and the balls to try and do something about it).

 

[MobiusStrip]

pay for their purchase with a payment card stored in the Walmart app

That doesn't appear to allow them to avoid credit-card fees (which I do not blame any retailer for fighting). So... they're just pushing their own BS app.

And where is the delete option for messages in this forum? WTF?

 

[Dark_Omen]

Once again, Walmart pay is not really about tracking, it’s about avoiding interchange fees. As you point out, using contactless or Apple Pay does not really affect businesses’ ability to keep track of your purchases.

The reason you see Walmart (and all other businesses) happily accepting contactless payments in Canada and Europe is because the interchange fees are much lower there.

Costco accepts debit only, except with Visa, where they negotiated a lower rate. Walmart could do the same thing.

 

[nathansz]

Because they are trying to push their own payment solution which has lower transaction costs.

How does it have lower transaction costs?

 

[Jimmy Bubbles]

Given what all is going on in the world right now, I don't care one iota about this personally

Don't be scared, friend.

 

[PPCmike]

I'm an Apple Pay fan and have been using it everywhere I can since it started. I even used it at Home Depot the first time before they shut it off, happy its back. That said, the Scan and Go at Sams has been great. I dont shop at WalMart proper very often but I can get some things cheaper at Sam's compared to Costco so I shop both stores for bulk items. Having used Scan and Go, I wish Costo had it in addition to Apple Pay. I dont use Apple Pay at Costco either because I have the Costco credit card and have the order billed direct to that but I love that I have the option. Everywhere else, Apple Pay.

Ok I thought I went crazy I knew HD had it before but just couldn't remember when

 

[CoMoMacUser]

Costco accepts debit only, except with Visa, where they negotiated a lower rate. Walmart could do the same thing.

Costco also accepts Mastercard online. I've used my Apple Card and Citi Mastercard several times.

 

[HarryDevlin]

They don't want to pay credit card fees if they can help it. Their entire statement avoids that simple fact.

Their Scan & Go tech worked to pay by card at Sam's Club last time I used it. If they turned that off they did so on purpose. They could easily integrate it with Apple Pay but choose not to.

That makes no sense since they still pay credit card fees if you pay with a credit card.

 

[turbineseaplane]

That makes no sense since they still pay credit card fees if you pay with a credit card.

They may have negotiated better rates for users of their own solution

 

[HarryDevlin]

That's part of it but the main issue, for them, is swipe/chip fees. They have been at war on CC fees since the 90s, and at one point, their CFO said his goal was to reduce transaction fees to zero, at any cost.

I haven't shopped at Walmart for years, so no idea how it works exactly, but I do use Sam's scan-and-go. It bills to my credit card, not bank-transfer. I think it's an option, though.

That makes no sense. They still pay swipe/chip fees when the customer uses a credit card.

At Costco, they've reduced those fees, IF you pay with the Costco Citibank Visa. But the Costco Citibank Visa isn't the best Visa to use at Costco anymore because they eliminated the extended warranty benefit. And it's not the best card to use at other stores since the cash-back is only 1%. The only place that the Costco Citibank Visa makes sense to use is at Costco gas stations where you get 5% back. At other gas stations you might get 4% back, but often you only get 1% because the purchase isn't classified as gasoline if there is also a convenience store.

 

[HarryDevlin]

Costco also accepts Mastercard online. I've used my Apple Card and Citi Mastercard several times.

That is true. The Citibank Double Cash® Mastercard now offers two additional years of warranty so if you're buying online you get that benefit which is very useful on items like appliances and computers, eliminating the need to purchase an extended warranty. The Citibank Costco Visa used to have the same benefit but they dropped it in 2023.

 

[HarryDevlin]

They may have negotiated better rates for users of their own solution

Yes, if you use the Walmart Capital One Mastercard. Just like Costco with their Citibank Costco Visa card, which reportedly has fees that are extremely low, close to zero. Not if you're using any other card. Well Apple does get a tiny cut from the credit card processor, which would be added to the fees that the processor charges, but that isn't the case for Google Pay.

But with so many credit cards offering 2-2.5% cash back, flat-rate, there's little reason to use the store-branded cards, that offer only 1% cash back at other stores, except in certain situations. I.e. you get 5% back at Walmart.com with the Walmart Mastercard.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Yes, if you use the Walmart Capital One Mastercard. Just like Costco with their Citibank Costco Visa card, which reportedly has fees that are extremely low, close to zero. Not if you're using any other card. Well Apple does get a tiny cut from the credit card processor, which would be added to the fees that the processor charges, but that isn't the case for Google Pay.

But with so many credit cards offering 2-2.5% cash back, flat-rate, there's little reason to use the store-branded cards, that offer only 1% cash back at other stores, except in certain situations. I.e. you get 5% back at Walmart.com with the Walmart Mastercard.

We might be assuming a bit more financial savvy than a lot of Walmart shoppers are equipped with

Not taking a shot (at all) -- just making an educated observation from what I see in the few Walmarts I frequent when charging my EV on road trips

 

[HarryDevlin]

I timed it. It's actually faster for me to put my physical card in & complete the transaction vs. using the Walmart Pay widget to bring up the camera & complete touchless. Phone & physical wallet in pockets before timing started when pay option offered.

Very true. Walmart Pay is a pain. I set it up once because I had forgotten my wallet at home but had my phone. I could add a stored credit card in the phone to Walmart Pay without having the physical card with me.

 

[mrwhiskey]

I didn't read all these but I will give everyone the reason. The transaction revenue that Walmart generates from their own payment product is significant. Over 50% of Walmart's revenue in the USA comes from immigrants and a significant amount of those people use Walmart Pay to send money home to their families every week. It has nothing to do with purchase data. Walmart's empire isn't just in the USA. What is the largest grocery chain in China??

 

[HarryDevlin]

Thankfully here in the UK there aren't many places that doesn't accept contactless anymore. Ignoring Turkish barbers and Chinese takeaways.... they like cash..... for reasons.... 👀

In the U.S., a lot of restaurants are going cashless.

Even given the reasons that they like cash, which has little to do with credit card fees, the hassle and expense of dealing with cash is not worth it.

Tips tend to be less with cash as well, since the credit card payment screen now usually starts at an 18% "choice." I was in a small Chinese restaurant a few weeks ago and tried to pay with cash and they said that they didn't have enough change (about $35) for a $100 bill.

 

[HarryDevlin]

We might be assuming a bit more financial savvy than a lot of Walmart shoppers are equipped with

Not taking a shot (at all) -- just making an educated observation from what I see in the few Walmarts I frequent when charging my EV on road trips

Yes, that's true. I go to one Walmart Neighborhood Market near me because they carry some items that I can't get at Costco, Target, or "regular" supermarkets. The checkout lines there are horrendous.

 

[CoMoMacUser]

In the U.S., a lot of restaurants are going cashless.

Even given the reasons that they like cash, which has little to do with credit card fees, the hassle and expense of dealing with cash is not worth it.

I'm seeing just the opposite. Most of the mom-and-pops that I frequent now add 3% to the bill if you use a credit card. Are chains and franchisees the ones going cashless?

 

[HarryDevlin]

I have a technical question around it: In Europe it does not matter if a company specifically accepts Apple Pay or not. It will work as long as they accept contactless payment (i.e. holding your physical credit card close to the terminal instead of your phone). Is that not the case in the U.S. / at Wallmart?

I am reading the Wallmart statement like they ban all forms of contactless payment but am confused of why the article itself mainly speaks about Apple Pay rather than contactless payments in general.

For a while, Samsung MST (Magnetic Secure Technology) worked at Lowe's, Home Depot, and Walmart, then they all figured out how to disable it. MST simulated a credit card magnetic stripe. Samsung no longer has any new models with MST.

 

[HarryDevlin]

I'm seeing just the opposite. Most of the mom-and-pops that I frequent now add 3% to the bill if you use a credit card. Are chains and franchisees the ones going cashless?

No. A lot of smaller restaurants, that are not trying to cheat on taxes, have gone cashless as well. We all are aware of the reasons that some mom-and-pops prefer cash, and it's not the credit card fees.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

That makes no sense. They still pay swipe/chip fees when the customer uses a credit card.

I'm aware, as are they. They have been at war with swipe fees with credit card since long before NFC. At one point, they wanted to buy a credit card company so they could reduce their transaction cost, and was talking about buying Discover. It never got that far, obviously, but they did work out a special deal with them for some time. They know they can't reduce it to zero, but it is (or was) their goal, though, to get as close to zero as possible.

Once I find the old article I read back in the early 2000s from their CFO, on how they are at war with credit card companies and swipe fees, I'll post it. I read it in college, so it's been a while, but one of their suggestions was a flat fee per transaction instead of a percentage. It's why they opposed the most recent CC legislation and settlement with VISA and Mastercard.

 

[HarryDevlin]

Walmart doesn't accept any contactless payments.

I have a technical question around it: In Europe it does not matter if a company specifically accepts Apple Pay or not. It will work as long as they accept contactless payment (i.e. holding your physical credit card close to the terminal instead of your phone). Is that not the case in the U.S. / at Wallmart?

I am reading the Wallmart statement like they ban all forms of contactless payment but am confused of why the article itself mainly speaks about Apple Pay rather than contactless payments in general.

The only contactless payment they accept, in the U.S., is Walmart Pay, which is not NFC. It's like AliPay and WeChat Pay, which uses a QR-like code that you scan with your phone's camera. It's faster to just use a physical card.