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subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,270
6,777
Apple Silicon is so efficient that they could easily put a mac inside a keyboard (with trackpad). It could be priced like a Mac Mini, or even slightly more, and then you could dock your iPad via a connector, which would turn it into a sidecar display automatically. This would make financial sense for them. The could sell it standalone for say $800 and then you could dock it with any iPad supporting the magic keyboard (although the patents don't work with current iPad pros, they would need to change the position of the smart connector...)
In theory this could give you a Mac + iPad pro 12.9 at say $1900 or even a Mac + iPad air at $1400 (a bit cramped maybe, so maybe this could be 12.9 + some future larger iPad only...). If the connector is different this could also push people to upgrade a M1 device they wouldn't otherwise upgrade... making them more money...
Don’t forget the Mac keyboard base would require a built-in battery. That’ll probably bump up the cost.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68020
Apr 25, 2017
2,014
2,257
Interestingly, MacRumors and others reported recently on a patent filing from Apple that showed a tablet that switched to a different interface when an external keyboard was connected. There's really no reason the iPad couldn't be the best of both worlds.
If an iPad switches to MacOS when connected to such a keyboard, it is reduced to a screen with no iPad functionalities. Is it then an iPad? Not really, it is just a screen.

Personally, I think it makes good sense to utilise the iPad optionally as a dumb screen when connected.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,270
6,777
The only comparisons you'll likely get is the rapid mode app opening/switching you'll find in YouTube reviews. I think MaxTech(?) has done one.

Trying to perform the same tasks for normal usage on multiple iPads simultaneously would be too annoying. Plus you'd need someone to have both M1+8GB and M1+16GB iPads with the exact same firmware version, settings and apps installed for a controlled environment.

With that said, I've gone back to Safari tabs opened over a month ago on the M1+16GB iPad and they haven't reloaded. I expect the 16GB offers a lot of cushion. I reckon the 8GB model would likely still give me a very good experience. Alas, 4GB has just gotten somewhat annoying at this point.
I think I found the Max Tech video.
He tested about as thoroughly as I was hoping, and it looks like there’s no difference in speed and reloads between the 8gb and 16gb, strangely enough. I wonder what the extra 8gb is for.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,921
13,274
I think I found the Max Tech video.
He tested about as thoroughly as I was hoping, and it looks like there’s no difference in speed and reloads between the 8gb and 16gb, strangely enough. I wonder what the extra 8gb is for.

Iirc, he (or maybe someone else) did a follow up video running two heavy tasks simultaneously and I believe it made a difference there.
 

Isengardtom

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2009
1,356
2,202
I use Windows more than MacOS daily. I know this will not be popular here, but for me (Windows Precision enabled) trackpads are just as good as those on Macs, for the following reasons:
- I couldn't care less about the fact that you cannot click anywhere, since I hate clicking, I exclusively tap to click
- I have never cared about the size of a trackpad as long as it tracks well and tracking speed can be set (the size of the trackpad on the 11in iPad magic keyboard is perfecly fine to me, including in a laptop).
- While gesture navigation is nice on MacOS, Windows works differently and they cannot be compared, as it's more a matter of liking / being fine with Windows or MacOS than trackpads being better of worse (and I am personally fine with either, although I prefer certains things in Windows and others in MacOS, but use Windows more because some important software I need everyday is Windows only)
I don’t think I’ve ever had experience with Windows precision enabled trackpads but If I compare the trackpad on my Dell work computer vs the one on the Magic keyboard or the trackpad that came with my iMac, the Dell one is really horrible to use.
Other than that I’m fine with Windows too, but I always use it with a mouse
 

Flabasha

macrumors 6502
Dec 21, 2011
357
441
I think it’s pretty much conventional wisdom that iPadOS is (intentionally) trash. But why sue? Instead of updating my 2018 iPad Pro, I bought a Galaxy Tab Ultra. And, oh my God, Android is like a dream compared to iPadOS, IMO. Fully customizable, expandable, intuitive, absolutely zero intentional crippling of the software. Only thing I miss is Airdrop from my phone… but that’s why I’m probably going to switch phone platforms too. I honestly had no idea how much more robust Android is until now.

To be clear, I LOVE my M1 Max MacBook Pro. But for tablets, I’m done with Apple for the foreseeable future.
 
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sparksd

macrumors G4
Jun 7, 2015
10,023
34,492
Seattle WA
I think it’s pretty much conventional wisdom that iPadOS is (intentionally) trash. But why sue? Instead of updating my 2018 iPad Pro, I bought a Galaxy Tab Ultra. And, oh my God, Android is like a dream compared to iPadOS, IMO. Fully customizable, expandable, intuitive, absolutely zero intentional crippling of the software. Only thing I miss is Airdrop from my phone… but that’s why I’m probably going to switch phone platforms too. I honestly had no idea how much more robust Android is until now.

To be clear, I LOVE my M1 Max MacBook Pro. But for tablets, I’m done with Apple for the foreseeable future.

"pretty much conventional wisdom that iPadOS is (intentionally) trash" - in your personal opinion, it may be trash but it is in no way "conventional wisdom".
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,671
4,508
I think it’s pretty much conventional wisdom that iPadOS is (intentionally) trash. But why sue? Instead of updating my 2018 iPad Pro, I bought a Galaxy Tab Ultra. And, oh my God, Android is like a dream compared to iPadOS, IMO. Fully customizable, expandable, intuitive, absolutely zero intentional crippling of the software. Only thing I miss is Airdrop from my phone… but that’s why I’m probably going to switch phone platforms too. I honestly had no idea how much more robust Android is until now.

To be clear, I LOVE my M1 Max MacBook Pro. But for tablets, I’m done with Apple for the foreseeable future.
I got a maxed out Tab S8 ultra on launch and this morning I got a 12.9 M1 pro.
In my opinion iPadOS is far from trash, I actually like it, but it's limited, OneUI is definitely a superior OS in almost everything.
That does not make the S8 ultra a better device than the M1 pro.
Hardware-wise the iPad pro is superior in everything except size (which is the main reason why I bought the S8 ultra)
The screen is better (because it's less reflective), the speed is amazing, not even close when browsing, there is hardly any accidental touch (which is for me the main issue with the Samsung tablets that have small bezels) and the magic keyboard is also superior.
And there are better apps in the store, although for my I use (I don't draw) they are almost on par on that front.
So it's basically better hardware vs better OS (and a few more pro apps, but that really depends on the apps you use)

I really wish the iPad pro had some of the features of OneUI and that the S8 ultra had the hardware of the iPad pro (but keep its size). It would be much easier for Apple to make iPadOS better than for Samsung to catch up with the hardware.

Having said that both can be very limiting for work if you need desktop software for your work.
 

VaruLV

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2019
636
561
I feel OP's pain, however, not sure how realistic such a lawsuit would be.
It could be harder than the one where dumb person inserted their cat into microwave oven to dry it and eventually, you know, the poor cat...
 

VaruLV

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2019
636
561
I got a maxed out Tab S8 ultra on launch and this morning I got a 12.9 M1 pro.
In my opinion iPadOS is far from trash, I actually like it, but it's limited, OneUI is definitely a superior OS in almost everything.
That does not make the S8 ultra a better device than the M1 pro.
Hardware-wise the iPad pro is superior in everything except size (which is the main reason why I bought the S8 ultra)
The screen is better (because it's less reflective), the speed is amazing, not even close when browsing, there is hardly any accidental touch (which is for me the main issue with the Samsung tablets that have small bezels) and the magic keyboard is also superior.
And there are better apps in the store, although for my I use (I don't draw) they are almost on par on that front.
So it's basically better hardware vs better OS (and a few more pro apps, but that really depends on the apps you use)

I really wish the iPad pro had some of the features of OneUI and that the S8 ultra had the hardware of the iPad pro (but keep its size). It would be much easier for Apple to make iPadOS better than for Samsung to catch up with the hardware.

Having said that both can be very limiting for work if you need desktop software for your work.
The main reason for me getting iPad was the vast amount of capable iPadOS apps that were well reviewed and that neither have Android versions nor Android alternatives.
If not for that, I wouldnt probably own an iPad now, its all about apps, no limitations if compared to Android which has pretty paltry choice compared to iOS/iPadOS.


Looking from todays perspective and my own experience:
Samsung tablets, higher tier ones, come with OLED displays, which I would prefer over miniLED in my 12.9.
Also, Samsung have upped their game when it comes to number of major OS upgrades and security upgrades, its now longer than it was and pretty considerable imho.
Where I live, Samsung has lots of promotions with freebies and cashbacks for their devices, Apple has basically none, while Samsungs are rather generous ones!
iPads, on the other hand, have more powerful innards which makes them, at least theoretically, much more capable in handling demanding tasks.
iPadOS also has considerably longer and, imho, better software support and update cycle.
And, yes, apps still remain the main factor even today, after 3 years with iPads, for me.

But, yes, iPadOS has lots to learn from DeX, and Im not sure if Apple will ever bring proper external display, multitasking support, let alone MAC apps to iPads.
If they do, I wouldnt find any issues investing-upgrading to 1TB/2TB model of 12.9 when the new one comes out and using it as my computer replacement instead of thinking about M1 series Macbooks or updated Surface's in the near future(summer/autumn).
 

ericwn

macrumors G5
Apr 24, 2016
12,121
10,912
"pretty much conventional wisdom that iPadOS is (intentionally) trash" - in your personal opinion, it may be trash but it is in no way "conventional wisdom".

The only thing resembling conventional wisdom here was your response.
 
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Isengardtom

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2009
1,356
2,202
I got a maxed out Tab S8 ultra on launch and this morning I got a 12.9 M1 pro.
In my opinion iPadOS is far from trash, I actually like it, but it's limited, OneUI is definitely a superior OS in almost everything.
That does not make the S8 ultra a better device than the M1 pro.
Hardware-wise the iPad pro is superior in everything except size (which is the main reason why I bought the S8 ultra)
The screen is better (because it's less reflective), the speed is amazing, not even close when browsing, there is hardly any accidental touch (which is for me the main issue with the Samsung tablets that have small bezels) and the magic keyboard is also superior.
And there are better apps in the store, although for my I use (I don't draw) they are almost on par on that front.
So it's basically better hardware vs better OS (and a few more pro apps, but that really depends on the apps you use)

I really wish the iPad pro had some of the features of OneUI and that the S8 ultra had the hardware of the iPad pro (but keep its size). It would be much easier for Apple to make iPadOS better than for Samsung to catch up with the hardware.

Having said that both can be very limiting for work if you need desktop software for your Nice
Nice. Did you get rid of your 2018 pro and replaced it with the M1?

Apple always plays it too safe in my view. Samsung takes more risks and sometimes introduces half baked features, but they always improve upon them in subsequent updates, making them really great. Dex basically was a good example of that.
Samsung definitely has long term vision in this (unlike google who abandon their products all the time)

The only reasons I stick with the iPad Pro at the moment is the ecosystem integration with my Mac and I prefer the aspect ratio and the higher brightness levels outside of the iPad Pro. The S8 lineup is really compelling though (The S7 was already too)
 
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sparksd

macrumors G4
Jun 7, 2015
10,023
34,492
Seattle WA
I got a maxed out Tab S8 ultra on launch and this morning I got a 12.9 M1 pro.
In my opinion iPadOS is far from trash, I actually like it, but it's limited, OneUI is definitely a superior OS in almost everything.
That does not make the S8 ultra a better device than the M1 pro.
Hardware-wise the iPad pro is superior in everything except size (which is the main reason why I bought the S8 ultra)
The screen is better (because it's less reflective), the speed is amazing, not even close when browsing, there is hardly any accidental touch (which is for me the main issue with the Samsung tablets that have small bezels) and the magic keyboard is also superior.
And there are better apps in the store, although for my I use (I don't draw) they are almost on par on that front.
So it's basically better hardware vs better OS (and a few more pro apps, but that really depends on the apps you use)

I really wish the iPad pro had some of the features of OneUI and that the S8 ultra had the hardware of the iPad pro (but keep its size). It would be much easier for Apple to make iPadOS better than for Samsung to catch up with the hardware.

Having said that both can be very limiting for work if you need desktop software for your work.

Interesting. I checked out the S8 Ultra as I was curious/interested - I've owned 6 Android tablets - but I was put off by the screen reflectivity. High reflectivity was why I removed the screen protector from my 2021 12.9 (I wasn't interested in a matte).
 

jenelemond

macrumors regular
Jan 20, 2022
137
70
I have a 2020 12.9” iPad Pro. Apple has always limited the usability of the iPad’s software, not adding features that should’ve been added long ago. There’s no more excuses. It’s 2022 and we still don’t have: proper external monitor support, proper multitasking with more windows, full pro apps (not the half assed apps we always get on the App Store and first party apps like iMovie, real apps like Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Lightroom Classic, real Photoshop, Pixelmator Pro, Xcode, Compressor, you get the idea), a weather app, a calculator app, optimized battery charging, external camera support, proper file management (like being able to format, fix or otherwise edit external drives, transferring files at the full capable speed USB-C and Thunderbolt on newer iPads should deliver, etc) and a whole bunch of other stuff the iPad needs. I’m not asking to put macOS on the iPad, just fix the software. I got my hopes up for iPadOS 15, but that turned out to be not only a massive disappointment, I consider it to be the worst update ever. Apple has clearly said no to merging the Mac and iPad operating systems, and has always advocated for keeping the iPad and Mac separate according to how they wish it to be, and considering that and all those awful lackluster iPadOS updates, I don’t think they will ever release the iPad from its software prison. The iPad is just as expensive as a decent laptop and it’s far more powerful than most laptops in its price range. Just give us the software it deserves. I have a feeling iPadOS 16 will be even worse than 15. In that case, someone needs to file a class action lawsuit against Apple and the iPad (especially the iPad Pro) should be boycotted until Apple overhauls the software (if they ever do, which they probably never will)
Well, but Who will Bell the Cat? 😂😂 It's not that easy mate!!
 

RadioHedgeFund

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2018
422
869
"pretty much conventional wisdom that iPadOS is (intentionally) trash" - in your personal opinion, it may be trash but it is in no way "conventional wisdom".
There are always opinions of 'iPad OS sucks' but never any backup as to why it apparently sucks other than 'because its not a Mac.' At this point I would point out no, its not a Mac and Apple never advertised it as such. Had the OP just brought an M1 Macbook Air they wouldn't have posted a badly punctuated rant about how they basically brought the wrong appliance for the job and this somehow entitles them to sue the manufacturers. "Its about time we sued Morphy Richards for not letting us cook toast in a kettle"
 
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Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,671
4,508
Nice. Did you get rid of your 2018 pro and replaced it with the M1?

Apple always plays it too safe in my view. Samsung takes more risks and sometimes introduces half baked features, but they always improve upon them in subsequent updates, making them really great. Dex basically was a good example of that.
Samsung definitely has long term vision in this (unlike google who abandon their products all the time)

The only reasons I stick with the iPad Pro at the moment is the ecosystem integration with my Mac and I prefer the aspect ratio and the higher brightness levels outside of the iPad Pro. The S8 lineup is really compelling though (The S7 was already too)
No, I didn't. I actually got rid of my 2015 12.9. I was planning on keeping both the 2015 and the 2018 (and not buy a M1) because I use them as pen-enabled external monitors for my desktop, but 2 reasons pushed me to sell the 2015 despite the fact that I had the battery serviced last year. The main reason is that the replacement device was starting to develop a bright spot. It was still very faint, barely visible, but so was the one on my 10.5 pro at the beginning and I did not want to take the risk. Second, the pen performance with duet and spacedesk was laggy. Sidecar was ok, but I was using it with Windows. And honestly reducing the number of lightning devices for a non iPhone user is always a good thing.
I sold it with the smart keyboard for 400, which is fair I think for a device with a new battery...

I got a 128GB 5G M1 with Magic keyboard for $1000, battery basically new (only 9 cycles, as the iPad was bought a couple of months ago and barely used).

The 2018 is not going to be sold, it's a keeper. I like the fact that it's lighter for when I need to hold it for a prolonged time, e.g. for reading a word or pdf document. Battery is still 95% on the 2018.

I plan on keeping both for the long term. I am only debating whether I'll keep both magic keyboards (I already had one) or sell one....

Concerning Samsung I agree. Personally I am not locked in the ecosystem, and I like having both aspect ratios, the ultra for movies and the iPad for portrait use.
But when I go on holidays I am taking the iPad, not the Samsung (cellular was another reason to get the device, although outside holidays I use my cellular 11in pro on the go).

PS One interesting thing I have noticed when comparing the 3 generation (1st, 3rd and 5th) for YouTube is that while the first 2 generation can only play 1080p and no more, the 3rd (and I guess the 4th) can play above 1080p but only in the YouTube app, not in Safari, and the 5th can finally play above 1080p in Safari too (which is what I use for YouTube, because I don't want ads). Nice.
Also I compared the speakers and there is a very slight improvement going from the 1st to the 3rd and to the 5th gen, but you only notice side by side, they are all very close...
 
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Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,671
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Interesting. I checked out the S8 Ultra as I was curious/interested - I've owned 6 Android tablets - but I was put off by the screen reflectivity. High reflectivity was why I removed the screen protector from my 2021 12.9 (I wasn't interested in a matte).
I agree, that's why I use a matte screen protector... So you lose the benefit of OLED either because of reflections or because of the screen protector, unless you are in a very dark room.
Having said that I never cared too much for Oled or Miniled anyway... I am ok with IPS.
The M1 has a beautiful screen and for now I am enjoying with no protector, but the pencil feel is terrible without a screen protector and I am a bit worries I could scratch it... We'll see....

One way to reduce reflections is to NOT use dark mode. And that's what I am doing now with my M1 pro. But on an oled screen that's means less battery life compared to dark mode, and more risk of burn-in in the long run....
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,671
4,508
The main reason for me getting iPad was the vast amount of capable iPadOS apps that were well reviewed and that neither have Android versions nor Android alternatives.
If not for that, I wouldnt probably own an iPad now, its all about apps, no limitations if compared to Android which has pretty paltry choice compared to iOS/iPadOS.


Looking from todays perspective and my own experience:
Samsung tablets, higher tier ones, come with OLED displays, which I would prefer over miniLED in my 12.9.
Also, Samsung have upped their game when it comes to number of major OS upgrades and security upgrades, its now longer than it was and pretty considerable imho.
Where I live, Samsung has lots of promotions with freebies and cashbacks for their devices, Apple has basically none, while Samsungs are rather generous ones!
iPads, on the other hand, have more powerful innards which makes them, at least theoretically, much more capable in handling demanding tasks.
iPadOS also has considerably longer and, imho, better software support and update cycle.
And, yes, apps still remain the main factor even today, after 3 years with iPads, for me.

But, yes, iPadOS has lots to learn from DeX, and Im not sure if Apple will ever bring proper external display, multitasking support, let alone MAC apps to iPads.
If they do, I wouldnt find any issues investing-upgrading to 1TB/2TB model of 12.9 when the new one comes out and using it as my computer replacement instead of thinking about M1 series Macbooks or updated Surface's in the near future(summer/autumn).
As I said, that's very personal. Personally, I have zero apps that I use that are better on iPad than on Samsung, other than Lumafusion, that is soon coming anyway....
I can't draw and I don't do photo editing and I barely use social networks on tablets (which by the way are going to be optimised apparently with Android L and the new upcoming Pixel tablet).
OLED is not an argument for me, for the reasons I mentioned above. Nor is software support. Samsung gives you 5 years now which is plenty given that on Android apps are supported for much longer than on IOS once an Android OS version is dropped.
I don't use DEX on the tablet, I much prefer OneUI, which still has incredible multitasking abilities that iPadOS is far from having. The only use for DEX for me is for extended external monitors (OneUI on the tablet and DEX on the monitor), another feature iPadOS lacks.
The real advantage of the iPad for me is hardware, the magic keyboard, the speed, the lack of accidental touches, and, but I know this may be very specific, selecting text with fingers is much better and smoother on iPad than it is on Windows and Android. And that's something I do a lot on tablets.
 
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Flabasha

macrumors 6502
Dec 21, 2011
357
441
There are always opinions of 'iPad OS sucks' but never any backup as to why it apparently sucks other than 'because its not a Mac.' At this point I would point out no, its not a Mac and Apple never advertised it as such. Had the OP just brought an M1 Macbook Air they wouldn't have posted a badly punctuated rant about how they basically brought the wrong appliance for the job and this somehow entitles them to sue the manufacturers. "Its about time we sued Morphy Richards for not letting us cook toast in a kettle"
For me (a 30+ year Apple fanboy, and owner of 2 iPad Pros), the the failings of iPadOS are many… primarily, an abysmal file system that easily loses files, can only handle a tiny number of file types, and is bizarrely awkward. The last straw for me was attempting to import fonts for use across multiple applications, and finding it nearly impossible, even with Fontinator and the other font managers for iOS.

On Android, it was dead simple. Plus, suddenly, I had an OS that recognized file types, made unzipping and installing simple, made using removable external drives simple, made mirroring to an external monitor simple, made UI customization possible, etc. etc. etc.

And this isn’t a slam on Apple, they COULD implement all these features, but it’s not their vision for the product. It’s very important for iPads to not cannibalize Mac sales, so iPadOS is MEANT to be very limiting. And they did a very good job of it. ;)
 

Isengardtom

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2009
1,356
2,202
And this isn’t a slam on Apple, they COULD implement all these features, but it’s not their vision for the product. It’s very important for iPads to not cannibalize Mac sales, so iPadOS is MEANT to be very limiting. And they did a very good job of it. ;)
I’m not always 100% convinced this argument is true. Isn’t it more in apple’s interest to sell more iPads because on an iPad you are more locked into the App Store and therefore the cut apple takes. It also is better suited for services like Arcade. So you could argue they make more money on top of the device sale with an iPad

On a Mac, you can install software anyway you want, completely bypassing the additional revenue stream for apple.

Now, I’m sure they still prefer you to buy both off course
 
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