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Colonel Blimp

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2016
424
507
After a day or two of intensive research, I earlier today ordered:

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Early 2019)
3.6 GHz 8-core Intel Core i9
8 GB RAM
Radeon Pro Vega 48
3 TB Fusion Drive​

Commentary:

This iMac will replace my iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015) with 4 GHz Intel Core i7, Radeon R9 M395X, and 3 TB Fusion Drive.

CPU: Benchmarks are starting to pop up on the Web showing that this new iMac maintains a consistent 3.8 to 3.9 GHz under heavy and sustained load with all cores maxed out while remaining quiet. Note that this exceeds the advertised base clock speed. With six of the eight cores maxed out, it appears to maintain a consistent 4.7 GHz under sustained load.

This is far better than many feared would be the case, given the unchanged thermal design of the iMac itself, and suggests that the new thermal design of the Core i9, when restricted to 95W (as it clearly seems to be here), is working quite well.

RAM: I’ll upgrade this myself, probably to 40 GB. (Given that one can buy a pair of 16 GB DIMMs, bringing the base 8 GB up to 40 GB, for the same US $200 that Apple charges to upgrade from 8 GB to 16 GB, this seems to be a no-brainer.)

Graphics: I’ll be gaming on this iMac, and it looks like the Radeon Pro Vega 48 should be able to handle recent games in 1440p resolution at high-quality graphics settings (although perhaps not Ultra) without breaking much of a sweat. (Remember that the iMac’s display is locked to 60 fps, so we’re obviously not looking at ultra-high-framerate gaming here.)

(For “serious” work, the extra compute power of the Radeon Pro Vega 48 should appeal to you pros. A search of the Geekbench 4 compute database shows OpenCL scores in the range of ~135,000 to ~151,000, compared to scores in the range of ~107,000 to ~127,000 for the Radeon Pro 580X. Metal scores are in the same ranges. This is, on average, a 22% increase in compute performance over the 580X.)

Importantly, all reports indicate that the HBM2 memory on the Vega GPUs generates substantially less heat than the GDDR5 memory on the Polaris GPUs (like the 580X), so despite being more powerful, the Vega 48 should either run cooler than the 580X, or if instead the two GPUs are allowed to run at the same temperature, the Vega 48 should have more room in its thermal budget for a higher GPU clock frequency (and thus for even higher performance).

With Thunderbolt 3, if I want even more GPU power or a higher-framerate display, I can always add an eGPU.

Storage: The largest SSD Apple offers is 2 TB, which is US $1,000 more expensive and 1 TB less storage, and 2 TB is simply not enough. In fact, I find 3 TB cramping as it is.

As supported by Apple, Boot Camp must go on an internal drive. I want room for Mac games and apps, Windows games, and a growing movie library. All of these take room.

I have a 3 TB Fusion Drive in my 2015 iMac, and I’ve been very happy with it. It has a 128 GB SSD (like the 2 TB, but unlike the 1 TB Fusion Drive, which has only a 32 GB SSD), which does the trick nicely. It’s lightning fast for almost everything I do with it.

(The Boot Camp partition lives entirely on the spinning hard drive. It does make booting into Windows slower, as well as loading games, but neither of these actually takes long - the iMac’s hard drive is very fast as hard drives go - and the games run just as fast as they would on an SSD. Since I use Windows only for gaming - and then almost only when I can’t play the same game in macOS - I can live with Windows on the spinning hard drive just fine.)

Timing: The Early 2019 iMacs will be the last iMacs released before the 32-bit apocalypse this September (aka macOS 10.15). With the continuing ability to boot into Mojave from an external drive even after the apocalypse and the ability to boot into Windows 10 via Boot Camp, I have every expectation that this will be a capable and versatile gaming computer that will continue to be able to run older software and play older games and, with the ability to add an eGPU via Thunderbolt 3, will continue to hold its own for at least a few years to come.

Vendor: I bought from Expercom via the link in this MacRumors story, which saved me $179 on top of the savings in sales tax, for a total savings of US ~$500. (Free shipping, too!) Thanks, MacRumors!
 
Last edited:

Abbas

macrumors regular
Jul 9, 2008
176
48
Dubai
Thanks very much for the detailed analysis. What I found most useful was that you went with the fusion drive over SSD and you are speaking from experience of using a 3TB FD.

After a day or two of intensive research, I earlier today ordered:

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Early 2019)
3.6 GHz 8-core Intel Core i9
8 GB RAM
Radeon Pro Vega 48
3 TB Fusion Drive​


!
 
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iono11200

macrumors regular
Mar 9, 2012
141
23
After a day or two of intensive research, I earlier today ordered:

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Early 2019)
3.6 GHz 8-core Intel Core i9
8 GB RAM
Radeon Pro Vega 48
3 TB Fusion Drive​

Commentary:

This iMac will replace my iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015) with 4 GHz Intel Core i7, Radeon R9 M395X, and 3 TB Fusion Drive.

CPU: Benchmarks are starting to pop up on the Web showing that this new iMac maintains a consistent 3.8 to 3.9 GHz under heavy and sustained load with all cores maxed out while remaining quiet. Note that this exceeds the advertised base clock speed. With six of the eight cores maxed out, it appears to maintain a consistent 4.7 GHz under sustained load.

This is far better than many feared would be the case, given the unchanged thermal design of the iMac itself, and suggests that the new thermal design of the Core i9, when restricted to 95W (as it clearly seems to be here), is working quite well.

RAM: I’ll upgrade this myself, probably to 40 GB. (Given that one can buy a pair of 16 GB DIMMs, bringing the base 8 GB up to 40 GB, for the same US $200 that Apple charges to upgrade from 8 GB to 16 GB, this seems to be a no-brainer.)

Graphics: I’ll be gaming on this iMac, and it looks like the Radeon Pro Vega 48 should be able to handle recent games in 1440p resolution at high-quality graphics settings (although perhaps not Ultra) without breaking much of a sweat. (Remember that the iMac’s display is locked to 60 fps, so we’re obviously not looking at ultra-high-framerate gaming here.)

(For “serious” work, the extra compute power of the Radeon Pro Vega 48 should appeal to you pros. A search of the Geekbench 4 compute database shows OpenCL scores in the range of ~135,000 to ~151,000, compared to scores in the range of ~107,000 to ~127,000 for the Radeon Pro 580X. Metal scores are in the same ranges. This is, on average, a 22% increase in compute performance over the 580X.)

Importantly, all reports indicate that the HBM2 memory on the Vega GPUs generates substantially less heat than the GDDR5 memory on the Polaris GPUs (like the 580X), so despite being more powerful, the Vega 48 should either run cooler than the 580X, or if instead the two GPUs are allowed to run at the same temperature, the Vega 48 should have more room in its thermal budget for a higher GPU clock frequency (and thus for even higher performance).

With Thunderbolt 3, if I want even more GPU power or a higher-framerate display, I can always add an eGPU.

Storage: The largest SSD Apple offers is 2 TB, which is US $1,000 more expensive and 1 TB less storage, and 2 TB is simply not enough. In fact, I find 3 TB cramping as it is.

As supported by Apple, Boot Camp must go on an internal drive. I want room for Mac games and apps, Windows games, and a growing movie library. All of these take room.

I have a 3 TB Fusion Drive in my 2015 iMac, and I’ve been very happy with it. It has a 128 GB SSD (like the 2 TB, but unlike the 1 TB Fusion Drive, which has only a 32 GB SSD), which does the trick nicely. It’s lightning fast for almost everything I do with it.

(The Boot Camp partition lives entirely on the spinning hard drive. It does make booting into Windows slower, as well as loading games, but neither of these actually takes long - the iMac’s hard drive is very fast as hard drives go - and the games run just as fast as they would on an SSD. Since I use Windows only for gaming - and then almost only when I can’t play the same game in macOS - I can live with Windows on the spinning hard drive just fine.)

Timing: The Early 2019 iMacs will be the last iMacs released before the 32-bit apocalypse this September (aka macOS 10.15). With the continuing ability to boot into Mojave from an external drive even after the apocalypse and the ability to boot into Windows 10 via Boot Camp, I have every expectation that this will be a capable and versatile gaming computer that will continue to be able to run older software and play older games and, with the ability to add an eGPU via Thunderbolt 3, will continue to hold its own for at least a few years to come.

Vendor: I bought from Expercom via the link in this MacRumors story, which saved me $179 on top of the savings in sales tax, for a total savings of US ~$500. (Free shipping, too!) Thanks, MacRumors!
Also contemplating ordering a upgraded iMac from Expercom this weekend. May I ask have you ordered from this vendor before and how was your purchase experience? It's a large purchase and I would like to be as sure as possible about the vendor that I choose.
 

jsmitty

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2016
557
540
NC
Delivery dates for a BTO gen 9 i5 are slipping out nearly beyond my 14 day return window for the gen 8 that I received yesterday. Decisions

SSD is the way to go. This gen 8 i5 obviously runs circles around my mid 2011 iMac but also is much faster than the 2017 7th gen i5 with fusion drive that I had for 40 days before returning to Best Buy when the new iMacs were announced. Zippy
 
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Colonel Blimp

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2016
424
507
Also contemplating ordering a upgraded iMac from Expercom this weekend. May I ask have you ordered from this vendor before and how was your purchase experience? It's a large purchase and I would like to be as sure as possible about the vendor that I choose.
No, I’ve never purchased from Expercom before. (I bought my previous two iMacs from Small Dog Electronics, but Small Dog were unable to match Expercom’s discount this time around.) A friend who’s also into Macs says he’s heard good things about Expercom.

I configured and ordered online using their web form, which was painless. I did have two telephone conversations with one of their representatives, who was very pleasant and helpful, before I placed my order. Once I placed the order, I received e-mail confirmation right away.

(The first was to inquire why Expercom was charging $500 to upgrade to the Vega 48 instead of $450 like Apple and everyone else. Their representative very quickly checked, thanked me for bringing the error to their attention, and corrected the pricing on their web configurator, all within a couple of minutes. The second was to ask why, after cutting the price of the GPU upgrade by $50, their promotional discount had also been cut by $50! As I expected, she explained that the calculated discount was based on their cost and was as low as they could go. Since it was still the lowest price I could find, I placed the order.)

Do be aware of Expercom’s return policy, which is not as generous as Apple’s (but which appears to be right in line with places like B&H).
 

Brookzy

macrumors 601
May 30, 2010
4,985
5,577
UK
Only have time to max it out to all cores, but here you go:

View attachment 829120

View attachment 829121

Stabilises at 3.9GHz and about 93 degrees Celsius. The fans were not audible at the point the first screenshot was taken, but ramped up to an audible level in the second, but were not maxed out at any point. (Perhaps if you can override the fan you can get higher clocks but this is how Apple has decided to tune it.)
I've had a little bit more time to play around, and compare it what was previously the top end 2017 iMac (4.2 GHz i7).

Geekbench
Screenshot 2019-03-30 at 16.42.13.png
Screenshot 2019-03-30 at 16.42.33.png

We see significant gains on multicore. But not everyone likes benchmarks. What is the real world CPU gain? I encoded a sample video file in Handbrake (something I do often anyway) on both machines, using the Fast 1080p30 preset. The 2017 i7 iMac took 6 minutes and 9 seconds to re-encode about 7 minutes of 1440p60 footage down to 1080p30. Which is a respectable time. The 2019 i9 iMac managed it in 3 minutes and 33 seconds, which is right in line with the benchmarks.

Fan noise
In the above test, the 2019 i9 iMac was actually significantly quieter than the 2017. The fans did not ramp up to maximum on the 2019, whereas they did on the 2017.

But I was curious whether this was just my perception, so I ran it again and recorded the fan speeds and temperatures.

The 2017 iMac shot straight to 100 Celsius CPU temperature, with the fans at the maximum 2700 RPM for most of the encode.

The 2019 iMac had a maximum temperature of 92 Celsius and a maximum fan speed of 1650 RPM.

On an unrelated matter, is anyone else’s About This Mac page not showing the memory tab anymore?

Screenshot 2019-03-30 at 16.37.50.png Screenshot 2019-03-30 at 16.37.40.png
 
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BlueTide

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2007
230
286
Silicon Valley, CA
While this starts to look good, I'm on the fence while waiting to see what the Mac Pro is going to be like - mostly due to the rumored display that would be a) bigger and b) allow more flexibility for my hipster home setup.

That said, i9 8-core at 3.6GHz with Vega and 1TB disk seems to be rather sweet. Likely with 8GB memory and upgrade that to 64GB.
 
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Colonel Blimp

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2016
424
507
Fan noise
In the above test, the 2019 i9 iMac was actually significantly quieter than the 2017. The fans did not ramp up to maximum on the 2019, whereas they did on the 2017.

But I was curious whether this was just my perception, so I ran it again and recorded the fan speeds and temperatures.

The 2017 iMac shot straight to 100 Celsius CPU temperature, with the fans at the maximum 2700 RPM for most of the encode.

The 2019 iMac had a maximum temperature of 92 Celsius and a maximum fan speed of 1650 RPM.
Brookzy, this is most helpful. Thank you!

I, like an idiot, ordered an imac in early Feb, so got the old version. So sad. I've had this for exactly 6 weeks. :mad::confused::(
Ouch! That’s almost certainly too late to return, although I have heard stories of Apple Stores taking returns in similar cases even after their two-week return window. If you bought from the Apple Store, it might be worth a try.

Assuming you can’t return it and still want to upgrade, you could certainly recoup most of what you paid for your 2017 iMac by selling it. Macs hold their resale value quite well. Still, I commiserate with you.
 
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1chrischan

macrumors newbie
Dec 6, 2015
23
5
Midwest USA
This was me but got lucky with the extended elite 45 day warranty at Best Buy. Just in under the wire to return it.
I bought mine from Apple Feb 10.
Brookzy, this is most helpful. Thank you!


Ouch! That’s almost certainly too late to return, although I have heard stories of Apple Stores taking returns in similar cases even after their two-week return window. If you bought from the Apple Store, it might be worth a try.

Assuming you can’t return it and still want to upgrade, you could certainly recoup most of what you paid for your 2017 iMac by selling it. Macs hold their resale value quite well. Still, I commiserate with you.

I am assuming this is not returnable. I bought it 2/10 and rec'd it 2/14...Bought online from Apple.
 

Colonel Blimp

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2016
424
507
I am assuming this is not returnable. I bought it 2/10 and rec'd it 2/14...Bought online from Apple.
Especially if it’s a stock configuration, it just might be worth backing up, boxing up, and taking to a physical Apple Store this weekend, making a sad face, and seeing if they’ll exchange it for the corresponding 2019 model.

I don’t want to get your hopes up, but apart from a few hours, what have you got to lose?
 

1chrischan

macrumors newbie
Dec 6, 2015
23
5
Midwest USA
Especially if it’s a stock configuration, it just might be worth backing up, boxing up, and taking to a physical Apple Store this weekend, making a sad face, and seeing if they’ll exchange it for the corresponding 2019 model.

I don’t want to get your hopes up, but apart from a few hours, what have you got to lose?

Thanks, great idea!
 

rugby4all

macrumors newbie
Mar 30, 2019
15
7
Noob here; just ordered a 27" iMac with i9 and Vega 48, 1TB SSD, 8GB of RAM after seeing the first few reviews showed this configuration did not exhibit any throttling or excessive noise from the fans. 32 GB of RAM from OWC are also on their way to complete the picture but I now need to wait for about 10 days :-(
 

Chet-NYC

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2017
114
421
New York USA
The timing of this new release couldn't have been better for me.
I had a late-2012 iMac since January 2013. Its original hard drive died about two years ago and put in a OWC SSD without any problems. Machine worked great until last fall when it would freeze up a lot, etc. Finally, earlier this month, the SSD finally went paws up. I had to take it out of the machine and in doing so, I put a small crack in the top bezel of the glass. I didn't think anything of it. While waiting for the new drive, the new iMac was announced.

When I got the new drive installed and put the display back, the machine started up (I had Mojave on the built in 128GB SSD). The crack in the glass was barely noticeable, but I had this three inch wide dead spot right down the entire display. Obviously, I did some damage to the display in removing it.

As I was planning to replace the machine later this year anyway, it just happened earlier.

So last Wednesday, I ordered:
3.6GHz 8-core Intel Core i9 processor
8GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
Radeon Pro 580X with 8GB of GDDR5 memory
1TB SSD storage
Magic Mouse 2
Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad

I'll add 32GB of RAM myself at a much lower cost then Apple charges soon after this one arrives.

I've been without my iMac since March 12th, I've been using my 12" MacBook. I'm sure when the new iMac arrives the screen will look like an IMAX movie to me...lol.
 

Colonel Blimp

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2016
424
507
Thanks very much for the detailed analysis. What I found most useful was that you went with the fusion drive over SSD and you are speaking from experience of using a 3TB FD.
Based on all the comments (most of them knee-jerk) that I’ve read about Fusion Drives in these forums over the years, my best guess about most of the folks who decry Fusion Drives is that either:
  1. They used an iMac with a 1 TB Fusion Drive, which has only a 32 GB (24 GB in the 2015 iMac!) SSD (unlike the 128 GB SSD in the 2 and 3 TB Fusion Drives), which by all reports isn’t large enough to provide a really satisfactory experience (although it should certainly be an improvement over the 1 TB 5400 rpm HD in the base 21.5-inch iMacs), or
  2. They have a rare use-case that requires performing many reads and writes outside of the 128 GB SSD (e.g. doing heavy-duty database access within a very large virtual machine), or
  3. They have never actually used a Fusion Drive and decry them on ideological grounds.
 
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boynigel

macrumors 6502
Jul 19, 2009
268
7
You can upgrade the RAM yourself which is what I did yesterday when it arrived. Fastest RAM upgrade I've ever done. There is a little button where the power plug connects and you press that in and the aluminum door pops up and you open that and the slots slide forward and you pop them in and slide them back and pop the cover back in. They usually use pretty nice SSDs from Samsung so I doubt yours is likely to fail unless you're just constantly rewriting the entire disk contents repeatedly. One of my friends is upgrading his 2009 iMac that had a mechanical drive for crying out loud.

Do you even need a very high end machine for audio these days? Could probably get by with a Mac Mini (which is actually fairly powerful now) and whatever monitor is lying around since you don't need super accurate color for audio work.

Please correct me if I’m wrong but ram is only user upgradable on the 27” models, not the 21” models. I don’t need a large monitor for what I do (protools ) nor the extra cost that goes along with it. Mini definitely has the horsepower but limited connectivity and I don’t like the idea of a rats nest of adapters to compensate for this.
 

Benz63amg

macrumors 601
Oct 17, 2010
4,394
914
Noob here; just ordered a 27" iMac with i9 and Vega 48, 1TB SSD, 8GB of RAM after seeing the first few reviews showed this configuration did not exhibit any throttling or excessive noise from the fans. 32 GB of RAM from OWC are also on their way to complete the picture but I now need to wait for about 10 days :-(
any reason you went for Ram from OWC instead of Crucial? and can you please provide the exact link to the RAM that you ordered for this new 2019 iMac? Thanks
 

macduke

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 27, 2007
13,485
20,591
Please correct me if I’m wrong but ram is only user upgradable on the 27” models, not the 21” models. I don’t need a large monitor for what I do (protools ) nor the extra cost that goes along with it. Mini definitely has the horsepower but limited connectivity and I don’t like the idea of a rats nest of adapters to compensate for this.
No you can't on the 21". But you had quoted my build so I thought you were referring to that machine. Also you're using it for a studio so usually professionals tend to get a larger display (the iMac Pro doesn't even come in 21") since they'll be using it all the time and it's a desktop so most people go big.
 

boynigel

macrumors 6502
Jul 19, 2009
268
7
No you can't on the 21". But you had quoted my build so I thought you were referring to that machine. Also you're using it for a studio so usually professionals tend to get a larger display (the iMac Pro doesn't even come in 21") since they'll be using it all the time and it's a desktop so most people go big.
I don’t need a 27” to get “pro” results though because I make music with my ears, not my eyes
[doublepost=1554003790][/doublepost];)
 

macduke

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 27, 2007
13,485
20,591
I don’t need a 27” to get “pro” results though because I make music with my ears, not my eyes
[doublepost=1554003790][/doublepost];)
Yeah but you can fit more tracks, waveforms, levels, loops, and all that nonsense on the display. Or if you're collaborating with others more Slack chats, Messages, etc. I guess I'm just used to a lot of multitasking and arranging lots of things. I don't do much with audio.
 

tabilo

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2012
37
80
Ordered my first iMac yesterday and went with the base model + 512GB SSD upgrade. Should be sufficient, since I am already using a MacBook Pro 2018 for work, which feels blazing fast as well to me
 
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Abbas

macrumors regular
Jul 9, 2008
176
48
Dubai
My local Apple store has them in stock so I'll be picking up the higher-end config today. Want to see if the 2TB Fusion drive is "good enough" for my usage, along with the performance of the 580X and Core i5 9600. I have two weeks to decide and IF I have to take it back, then I'll be ordering at 512GB SSD.
 
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