Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPad Pro What could Apple add to iPad to make it truly "Pro"?
- Thread starter thekeyring
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Most people consider trackpads as a pointer tool, analogous to the mouse. You traverse the
screen via movements on a small abstracted xy plane. Its much more precise than a mouse and your view is not obscured by hands and fingers. Personally I always use a mouse with my notebook computer when working in remote locations. If I just need to browse mobile I'll use my ipad mini
[doublepost=1470981233][/doublepost]
I think this whole point of Surface and other hybrids. Some tasks require a pointing functionality and so you have that in addition to finger friendly apps. Yes, Apples ecosystem and form factors are better for touch. There are trade offs. For me, access to pen for drawing and math as well as mouse for complex apps makes the hybrid paradigm very attractive. I am giving up "fun" ios apps and games in favor of "pro" software. How long until MS can fashion a i5 with 8 gigs of ram into an ipad pro form factor? 5 years?
Last edited:
While I see your point about how iPads and Laptops were originally designed for different purposes, let's not forget that Apple marketed this particular iPad as a "PC Replacement", so we are all posting not for the sake of a groan, but because alot of us actually like that idea, and while many of us have acknowledged that there are key reasons why it couldn't replace our laptops just yet, we still believe in the idea so much that we have discussions like this in order to contribute the ideas necessary to make that vision possible someday.
I hear what you're saying though about how many threads that say "we wish our iPads/iPhones would have x/y/z" can feel like a bit of a moan session sometimes though, but in all fairness I think all anyone's trying to do is express their ideas, and such ideas can be useful. While we all tend to want different things, so there are an infinite number of things that Apple could do, of course naturally it would be impossible to do all of them (and no doubt impractical). But even Tim Cook has stated many times that they have a real hard time trying to whittle all the possible ideas of things they'd like to do down to the the things that are actually possible and can be done well. So discussions like this help to make apparent which of the ideas are the most sought after, and which still hold true over time. The ones that keep cropping up over and over again help to show where there is a general consensus, and is indeed valuable feedback for any company.
What's different about iPad Pro compared to most discussions like this though, is that Apple actually do seem to share this vision of iPads eventually becoming the true replacement for our Laptops. The good news is they're not alone.
@bensisko is no doubt 'groaning' because these threads aren't usually visionary discussions about the future of the iPad, but rather a traditional X86 laptop vs iPad comparison checklist. And it's a simple binary test: the iPad "fails" wherever it deviates from the laptop.
The "Surface" is "better" because it fails fewer of these comparison checks.
You can see how this can get tedious for those of us who enjoy the iPad as it is now, and see its value (and iOS) as an entirely different computing experience.
I can totally get behind this statement, but that's the catch AND the challenge. How can you make it MORE for SOME people while, at the same time, keeping it the way it is for others? Can bothe Apple AND App developers make an OS and Apps that allow me to use the iPad the way I use it now with simplicity yet allow for others to have more complex elements?
IF Apple can do it, I'm all for it. Call me skeptical though because I haven't seen it yet. Android? Nope. Windows? Attempted and failed.
That's part of it. The biggest groan is when people use the word "pro" as a means to complain or put any more meaning to it than what it is - a marketing term. People put their own implied contract to "pro" and put expectations to it that Apple never promised.
Beyond that M. Gustave is right. There's a lack of vision when it comes to the iPad - and it's not on Apple's part. Too many in these threads just try to shoehorn current desktop OS workflows and features into the differently sized peg that is the iPad. I get that there are certain things people need (or think they need, or prefer) to do their work, but instead of using this as an opportunity to think about how we could REMOVE tedious work and get things done more easily, it comes down to "I need a file manager to be 'pro'" (I STILL can't understand how a file manager would make the iPad 'Pro'). Instead, let's talk about how Apple might take current iPad file management (simple, yet perhaps not as versatile for some needs) and make it better (can we use meta tagging to try and predict what files you need or want?).
The basic idea should be: Let's not figure out what is missing from the iPad as compared to OS X, let's take the iPad for what it is fundamentally and make it better from there.
[doublepost=1471003487][/doublepost]
While I see your point about how iPads and Laptops were originally designed for different purposes, let's not forget that Apple marketed this particular iPad as a "PC Replacement", so we are all posting not for the sake of a groan, but because alot of us actually like that idea, and while many of us have acknowledged that there are key reasons why it couldn't replace our laptops just yet, we still believe in the idea so much that we have discussions like this in order to contribute the ideas necessary to make that vision possible someday.
I hear what you're saying though about how many threads that say "we wish our iPads/iPhones would have x/y/z" can feel like a bit of a moan session sometimes though, but in all fairness I think all anyone's trying to do is express their ideas, and such ideas can be useful. While we all tend to want different things, so there are an infinite number of things that Apple could do, of course naturally it would be impossible to do all of them (and no doubt impractical). But even Tim Cook has stated many times that they have a real hard time trying to whittle all the possible ideas of things they'd like to do down to the the things that are actually possible and can be done well. So discussions like this help to make apparent which of the ideas are the most sought after, and which still hold true over time. The ones that keep cropping up over and over again help to show where there is a general consensus, and is indeed valuable feedback for any company.
What's different about iPad Pro compared to most discussions like this though, is that Apple actually do seem to share this vision of iPads eventually becoming the true replacement for our Laptops. The good news is they're not alone.
I have no issues with iPad being a PC Replacement, but the idea isn't to make it a PC Replacement by making it a PC. "Adding a file manager and a mouse" isn't a 'let's make the iPad better' idea, it's a 'let's make the iPad a PC' idea.
Yes, exactly. For instance, people say they want a mouse because it gives more precise selection control. But the answer to that should be to figure out ways to make selection with fingers on a touch screen more precise. I'm afraid that if Apple adds mouse to the iPad, app devs will just port the existing desktop UI to iPad and call it a day, making apps that HAVE to be used with a mouse. As bensisko says, this is what happened with Windows -- there is no big hurry to come out with touch optimized apps, because people can just run desktop software.
Ideally, tablet apps should be usable with only finger and no additional pointing device. Even the Pencil should always be optional, not required.
There are quite some amazing apps out there: Procreate, Pixelmator, Shapr3D, Coda, Autodesk Graphic, iWork and iMovie to name a few - It is the OS that could use some tweaks here and there.
I'd love to be able to sync my iPod shuffle through the iPad Pro because, y'know, Pro Post-PC device blabla and an app for exporting .stl and do rendering - I dream with a port of 3DS Max Design!
I'd love to be able to sync my iPod shuffle through the iPad Pro because, y'know, Pro Post-PC device blabla and an app for exporting .stl and do rendering - I dream with a port of 3DS Max Design!
Amazing-ish. Want to edit pro video with iMovie? Good luck using 3d max with your fingers. Its not happening because touch is not scalable into more complex apps that require more precise pointing.
You can't compare pencil to mouse/ trackpad, imo. Pointing on the mouse and trackpad is done on an abstracted, horizontal and scaled xy plane. Its much faster, ergonomically efficient and the hand and pencil do not obstruct the users view while making selections. Also, no right click with the pencil.
Touch and pencil are great for some graphics applications, and on the windows side some software is incorporating abstacted modules to work with touch and pen. But aftereffects or maya without a mouse--no thanks!
Last edited:
I don't think that's true at all. I'm a firm believer that anything that can be done with a mouse can be done with touch - it's about figuring out the UI and (as Night Spring said) about making touch more effective and precise.
Night Spring said it perfectly - the answer is NOT taking an existing app (3DSMax) and just porting it to iOS. Realizing that iOS is touch-based and realizing that it's a different use-case and it's NOT just the desktop experience on a tablet - you start thinking about how you can perform the same functions and tasks (sometimes better and more efficiently) on a touch screen device by rethinking how people are going to interact with the device and the content/data.
If I wanted 3DSMax on the iPad, the first thing to do would be to simplify the UI - and that DOESN'T mean 'dumb it down'. Even on the desktop 3DSMax could use some SERIOUS efficiency improvements. There's also all kinds of improvements to data handling to make touch the means of input and manipulation.
When all of this is worked out, you'll have an app where Touch can be primary and a mouse can be used based on preference.
Why won't they do this? 3DSMax (like other applications) are based on legacy UI and legacy code. It would take too much effor to rethink their app for a different platform. Even Adobe has gotten lazy in this regard. They did a GREAT job on Illustrator for the Surface/touch. Photoshop... is still Photoshop. Where's the Photoshop redesign? Using Photoshop on the Surface without a mouse is still a terrible experience.
[doublepost=1471015622][/doublepost]
The point would be to design your app so you don't NEED a right click (like other apps in iOS).
I disagree with your assessment on mouse/trackpad vs. touch/pencil (about it being faster and ergonomically efficient) - at least I disagree that these are absolutes. At best it comes down to individual use - for some people interacting using a Pencil is MUCH better ergonomically than a mouse.
One of the things I don't understand, and it's not unique at all to this thread, is why people's expectations of the iPad Pro seem to be so high and uncompromising. I know that Apple has a long history of servicing the creative industries with their hardware and software, but it shouldn't necessarily be the case that these are the only "professionals" that Apple might be trying to service with their latest 'pro' offering.
The vast majority of people's day to day work is going to be email, word-processing, spreadsheet and presentation focused' with a liberal smattering of meeting note-taking thrown in. This is certainly true of my work, and I deal with a lot of creative work, channeling stuff between clients and the creative studio. For me, the pro is a great device. Not perfect, by any means, but I think it works as a pro device 'as is'.
This has been said multiple times, again on this and many other threads, but this is also a first generation device for Apple, and the app ecosystem will develop to serve the needs of the community. I would drop the iPad like a hot stone if Apple started to compromise and add things like Mouse Support and a full desktop OS: if I wanted that, I'd go and get a surface book and be dissatisfied with the overall experience.
So, to answer OP - I think it's fine "as is" and doesn't need to do anything other than continue to evolve and develop.
The vast majority of people's day to day work is going to be email, word-processing, spreadsheet and presentation focused' with a liberal smattering of meeting note-taking thrown in. This is certainly true of my work, and I deal with a lot of creative work, channeling stuff between clients and the creative studio. For me, the pro is a great device. Not perfect, by any means, but I think it works as a pro device 'as is'.
This has been said multiple times, again on this and many other threads, but this is also a first generation device for Apple, and the app ecosystem will develop to serve the needs of the community. I would drop the iPad like a hot stone if Apple started to compromise and add things like Mouse Support and a full desktop OS: if I wanted that, I'd go and get a surface book and be dissatisfied with the overall experience.
So, to answer OP - I think it's fine "as is" and doesn't need to do anything other than continue to evolve and develop.
Agreed--but your making my point--touch in illustrator is a simplifed module within the program.
Touch friendly "data handling" and "simplifying without dumbing down" sound wistful. The only thing that has remotely impressed me was ti's nspire ios app and some wolfram apps. But i always use the desktop versions anyway
[doublepost=1471017875][/doublepost]
(All consumers - "vast majority") is a big market with bigger pockets and that is why "what is pro" threads proliferate here. Otherwise, ios may be a better fit for many users
Last edited:
If I were the king of the universe, I would require everyone who wants "OSX on the iPad" to spend 6 months using the Surface as their only device before being able to post to threads like this.
Apple is (was) famous for the slogan "Think Different" which was a spin on IBM's "Think". How ironic that many Apple customers not only don't "Think different", but a case could be made that they don't even "Think".
If I were the king of the universe, I would require everyone who wants "OSX on the iPad" to spend 6 months using the Surface as their only device before being able to post to threads like this.
Apple is (was) famous for the slogan "Think Different" which was a spin on IBM's "Think". How ironic that many Apple customers not only don't "Think different", but a case could be made that they don't even "Think".
There are several surface users on this forum. I have used surface pro's for 3 years with great success. I think if more here tried and understood the concept they would be more receptive to it.
If I were the king of the universe, I would require everyone who wants "OSX on the iPad" to spend 6 months using the Surface as their only device before being able to post to threads like this.
Apple is (was) famous for the slogan "Think Different" which was a spin on IBM's "Think". How ironic that many Apple customers not only don't "Think different", but a case could be made that they don't even "Think".
I agree!!!
Don't get me wrong - I love my Surface Pro... For what it is - a laptop with a pen-enabled touchscreen that can be used without a keyboard. Even with Windows 8, the Surface was not going to be the iPad. There are situations where I like it, and there are situations I don't. I thought Microsoft was going to go down the road of "rethinking how we interact with our digital world" with Windows 8, but then they gave us Windows 10 and took us so many steps back (I love Windows 10 as a desktop/laptop OS... But it's not giving me "the future of computing"). In some regards, MS is still working towards this (such as HoloLens), but they really need to refine the idea of "Continuum" - UX/UI HAS to be different on a tablet than it is on a desktop.
I still think of the Surface as a traditional computer. I've come to think of the iPad as something different - a different way to interact with (much of) the same digital data.
Believe me - I GET the want to be able to do EVERYTHING on the iPad (and I'm a big supporter of the idea that, for some, this is not only possible, but preferable), but I don't want to compromise on what the iPad IS just to be able to do that. I would rather the iPad (and developers and the user base) evolve instead of just slapping desktop components into iOS.
[doublepost=1471020511][/doublepost]
I'm one of them - and I STILL don't think OS X on a tablet is a good idea. Microsoft is making a valiant effort, but it's just NOT what it should be (and Windows 10 takes us further AWAY from the progress made in Windows 8).
[doublepost=1471020572][/doublepost]
Yes - some apps can be more easily converted than others, but that doesn't mean it's not POSSIBLE - it just means people are too lazy (or it's too expensive) to do it right.
There is a tension between adding functionality to the ipad and ruining the simplicity of ios. So maybe there should be an osx/ios hybrid that is not an ipad. apple slate.
I also don't think you understand the difference between "slapping desktop components" onto a tablet and creating a hybrid. A hybrid is daul use device addressable through touch and mouse/trackpad. Some apps will be explicitly designed for touch, others will be optimized for mouse/trackpad use. This seems to confuse ipad users.
Last edited:
I agree with some on the need for mouse input and at least some level of a full featured OS with some semblance of a filesystem.
Not that it's totally necessary, but it won't be a REAL laptop replacement without those things. I'd also like to have extended desktop in some form. Split screen is nice, but the age old desire of a dock-able tablet that goes from mobile OS to desktop OS on a 27" hidef screen is still my preferred solution.
I know it's possible, since the Surface has been doing it since version 1.
Not that it's totally necessary, but it won't be a REAL laptop replacement without those things. I'd also like to have extended desktop in some form. Split screen is nice, but the age old desire of a dock-able tablet that goes from mobile OS to desktop OS on a 27" hidef screen is still my preferred solution.
I know it's possible, since the Surface has been doing it since version 1.
I think Apple would nail the iPad experience if profits weren't the main target. There was a time when the iPhone was terrible and people didn't want to give up their physical keyboard blackberry but now we all use the virtual keyboard. The iPhone and the software available for it paved the way for people to use their devices in new ways. The iPad is still a convenience, it doesn't offer new ways to do things that aren't available on a computer.
I continue to be puzzled why Apple wants the iPad to replace the computer instead of focusing on developing the iPad to offer us a way to work that we haven't yet thought of.
I continue to be puzzled why Apple wants the iPad to replace the computer instead of focusing on developing the iPad to offer us a way to work that we haven't yet thought of.
It lets me read in portrait. Now with the Pencil people can take notes and draw on it like on a paper notepad.
I call those a convenience unless you really feel that reading in portrait and drawing on an iPad are the two pillars that will finally take down the PC.
It does something like 95% of things I used to do on PC, plus these things I can't do on PC. So I now only use my PC a few times a week for less than an hour at a time. The rest of the time, I'm on my iPad.
Maybe they haven't thought of it? Maybe all the slim returns to touch have been exhausted? From 1980's until the iphone, ui redesign centered on redesigning the keyboard and mouse. This spawned dozens of weird products that never caught on, with the exception of the trackpad--specifically--the apple trackpad. People romanticize touch as some sort of future pointing ui revelation. I love digital pens but i doubt this will ever be important to more than a quarter of users.
Last edited: