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Tankmaze

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2012
1,707
351
I'm kind of hoping that the 16" M1 MBP that I'm holding out on is basically the existing design with the AS processor in it, similar to the 13". A new design throws in a new kink to the decision. lol. And then my current Mid-2015 15" MBP is working perfectly and showing no signs of needing to be replaced. I like to get value from my purchases, and I feel my 2015 has lots of life left in it. But the temptation has never been greater. Exciting times for Mac right now! I want in on Apple Silicon! Just need to come to a conclusion on how to enter. It will be soon, I sure.

Yup, I have the same machine as you. It is also showing no signs of needing to be replaced, but I am really really tempted to get the mac mini with 16 GB since I work from home mostly since March.

I'm hoping for the 16" M1X/M1Z MBP, which hopefully can come in WWDC next year or earlier, I'm hoping :D
 

fiatlux

macrumors 6502
Dec 5, 2007
352
143
I could actually get a Mac mini M1 and not loose much if at all in terms of perfs compared to my MP 2013+eGPU. But on the other hand my current kit still performs well for I need to do with it (Lightroom Classic and a bit of Davinci Resolve) so my plan is to keep using it until it is no longer supported by the OS/SW I need and then move on to a Mac mini or iMac 27" (depending on my monitor needs) with the latest and greater Apple Silicon.

I am not currently look at MacBooks, as iPads have fulfilled my personal mobility needs lately (and I have a Win laptop for work).
 

iBug2

macrumors 601
Jun 12, 2005
4,540
863
I'll wait for an iMac with M1. Or whatever they call it. But any chip as fast as M1 in single core in an iMac, I'm game.
 

tranceking26

macrumors 65816
Apr 16, 2013
1,464
1,650
I’ll probably spend the first few weeks drooling and eventually talking myself out of buying a new Mac, like with the M1!
 

ares57

macrumors newbie
Nov 16, 2020
4
0
For me, like others, the only disappointing aspects of the first M1 Macs are the external monitor support, limited RAM upgrade options. Otherwise, I would see no reason to upgrade to an M2 in a years time.

Otherwise, the performance, battery life, quiet operation, cool running temps are game changers in a notebook form factor. Have the MacBook Air 16gb, and it can do everything I need it to. It has instantly made my previous Macs look like relics from another time. Only need some software updates.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,980
20,169
UK
apart from watch YouTube reviews nothing really depends when next one is out...I fully plan to keep my M1 air for at least 2-3 years I would say
 

Hexley

Suspended
Jun 10, 2009
1,641
505
You do realize that:

(a) Macs during the era of the PowerPC-to-Intel transition (on both ends of the transition) were not rated to last anywhere near as long as they do now (in terms of total time being able to run the latest release of macOS); Apple would support Macs for 5 years; now they're supporting them for 8 years (with them still being usable for two years thereafter with security updates for their final supported macOS release)

(b) The PowerPC-to-Intel transition is not the Intel-to-Apple-Silicon transition. 2005-06 is not 2020-2022. Steve Jobs was able to complete the former transition in a year. Tim Cook (Federighi and Srouji) are going to need all two years to complete the latter transition as evidenced by the fact that the M1 still has limitations preventing it from replacing every Intel Mac.

(c) Four years is not enough time for Intel and AMD to become irrelevant. A TON of things would need to happen in an impossibly short time (the development of an SoC not made by Apple, but still powerful enough to convince PC OEMS and software developers that Windows 10 for ARM64 is a superior platform to develop for when compared to Windows 10 for x86-64 being not least among them).

right?

Also, you only get 7 years of being able to order parts for a product if you're in the state of California or the nation of Turkey. Everywhere else, it's 5 years.

You're correct about this being the end of Hackintoshes; though, that end won't be immediate. Certainly, I'd build a 10th Gen Intel based Hackintosh while the parts still exist...
A) Pls provide citation of your claim

B) WWDC 2005 keynote of Steve Jobs claimed a 2 year transition just like WWDC 2020 keynote of Tim Cook. 2005 has Apple having a market cap of $75 billion while 2020 having a market cap of $2 trillion. With more resources than AMD, Intel and Nvidia combined why can't Apple, who produced iPads and iPhones in the same quantity as the global PC market of 2019 need to take their time?

Who will buy any Intel Mac that is slower than any M1 Mac at a fraction fo the cost? If they keep to the two years declared they will suffer the Osborne Effect. Who would buy a $6,000 Mac Pro when $700 Mac mini can trample it?

Apple makes iPhone chips in greater quantities than Intel and AMD combined on a 5nm process that neither x86 chip makers use.

M1 is designed for less than 15W TDP. A future higher-end Apple Silicon chip designed for more than 15W TDP will come out for the iMac, MacBook Pro 16", and four TB4/USB4 port MacBook Pro 13"and Mac mini between January-April 2021.

C) Intel and AMD will not be relevant on macOS as early as 2024.

As to Intel & AMD being relevant on Windows is another matter. Apple's success with ARM may accelerate Microsoft giving equal resources to support x86 and ARM on Windows.

Android chips do not have the performance per Watt of Apple chips but they do not have to be as they're superior to Intel and even perhaps AMD chips.

Imagine, by the year 2024 buying a Windows ultrabook powered by a Qualcomm, Samsung, Nvidia, Mediatek or Huawei chip that has better battery than any Intel or AMD chip. Laptops make up over 80% of all shipped personal computers. Desktops less than 20%.

The PC market is a fraction of the smartphone market so it is easy to takeover from incumbents.

Apple has SoCs suitable for all their Macs were completed months ago. They're just doing prototyping and testing so nothing launched between November to June will fail.

Just like iPhone chips being designed today will be launched in iPhone/iPad by 2023 or 2024.
 

Hexley

Suspended
Jun 10, 2009
1,641
505
I will do nothing but enjoy my M1 Mini (that is yet to arrive).

I’m moving from a 2013 iMac, so my track record shows I’m in no hurry to switch, as long as my system works, as long it is supported.

But it will be nice when I get my M1, the performance increase for me will be immense.
Why not to a 2021 iMac with Apple Silicon?
 

Tankmaze

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2012
1,707
351
Imagine, by the year 2024 buying a Windows ultrabook powered by a Qualcomm, Samsung, Nvidia, Mediatek or Huawei chip that has better battery than any Intel or AMD chip. Laptops make up over 80% of all shipped personal computers. Desktops less than 20%.

This is crazy to think, but I am excited for this future :D
 
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iamasmith

macrumors 6502a
Apr 10, 2015
842
417
Cheshire, UK
I'll just be assessing it based on my current needs and looking at how the memory options are panning out when they start shipping things like iMac with Apple Silicon.

I suspect that iMac will be consolidated into one general model and I remember somebody mentioning it on this site that would be a 24" option so there's a lot up in the air in terms of when I make that move especially since I went for a 2020 27" iMac with stacks of RAM just in case that happened.
 

lxmeta

macrumors regular
Dec 6, 2018
187
223
Austria
While I don't have the option to wait (need a macbook now), I will switch my M1 MacBook Pro as soon as there is a >=32gb and 4 port version available. I am unsure though if I will not return my M1 once it arrives, as I have some fairly large files I am working on, and the 16gb limit might be an issue. I really hope this one does not have any of the hidden flaws Apple "likes" to design into their latest models...
 

Invisible Elf

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2011
133
110
I'm going to buy the new MBA and sell my 16 inch MBP. Probably going to buy the new 16 inch when it's released, and might keep the MBA for travels and couch use if I like it enough.
 

genovelle

macrumors 68020
May 8, 2008
2,114
2,699
Not waiting for M2, per se. Unfortunately, as Apple's quality control on OS releases (see High Sierra and Catalina) declines, I find myself going Windows more frequently. I'm due to buy the Intel Ice Lake 4-port 13" MacBook Pro in the very near future (as Boot Camp and x86 virtualization matter more to me than iOS and iPadOS apps running natively). I do and really want and ought to get my hands on an Apple Silicon Mac (for the sake of exploring and playing around with the few differences), but I don't know that I have to own one for the privilege. I might get an Apple Silicon Mac down the road to inevitably replace this one, and if I do, I'm sure whatever replaces the M1 2-port 13" MacBook Pro will be more than enough Mac for me (as again, I have Windows doing a lot of my heavy lifting app-wise). But I may also hop off the Mac bus. Either way, I don't need to buy one of the first couple revs of Apple Silicon; I was among the first to the Intel Macs during the PowerPC-to-Intel transition, I was much younger and more willing to run apps in Rosetta until I had native versions. I can certainly wait on this one, assuming I continue with the Mac platform at all.
Interesting. I have been forced into using Windows machines 3 different times over the last 5 years. Each time has been its own nightmare for different reasons. Unnecessary complexity and having to reboot at the worst times were highlights, inconsistencies between install of the same OS made trouble shooting exhausting. In one case my 6 year old MacBook Air and was more often used and a year later at a different location I was using it when my new Windows 10 wasn’t but couldn’t access some systems so I was stuck.
 

brynsmith23

macrumors regular
Jan 24, 2007
154
92
Australia/NZ
I'll be upgrading my M1 Air 16gb and 512gb hard drive, as soon as they release a 14 inch Pro, with TB 4 ports.

I've still got my 15 inch Pro, and if we see a rumoured 14 inch model, it will be a redesigned case, hopefully a bump on the M1, i'm guessing they will have a better spec for the higher end pro's

But what i love about the new Air..... no touch screen:)
 
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trulsdd

macrumors newbie
May 8, 2014
11
36
I just cancelled my Pro 16/1tb, and ordered the Air 8/512 instead. My current 2015 2,7ghz i5 can barely watch 4k-video on Youtube.

Im going to edit a lot of 4k footage shot with phone and GoPro the next six months, some occasional PS-work, but other than that not much heavy duty stuff. Im also not renewing my Adobe-pack, and instead purchasing FCP, hoping that the air won't throttle in FCP with 4k-editing. Will the air suffice?

Has anyone tried editing with 4k on the air? The YT-videos mainly focus on rendering, but that's rarely the bottleneck for me. Color correction, animations and stabilisation is usually what cripples my current setup.

Probably gonna sell it whenever the 14" comes, and Ill keep that one for the next 5-7 years.
 

Spindel

macrumors 6502a
Oct 5, 2020
521
655
Why not to a 2021 iMac with Apple Silicon?
No matter how much I like the iMac it is irritating that:

1. If I change the computer I have to change the monitor.
2. Because of point 1 it is unpractical to keep an old computer as a headless home server
3. I can't use the iMac as an external monitor
4. My current mac is not supported by Big Sur and I want the latest OS, and I'm sure as hell won't buy a Intel Mac
 
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Tankmaze

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2012
1,707
351
Before 2007 did you ever think people would lengthen their PC's lifespan to 5-6 years rather than 3 years?

In 2007 I would never use a mac from 2000 for work.

But now in 2020, I know lots of people who still use mac's from 2009/2010 and can do lots of work from it.

Apple really changed the computer industry with this move to ARM.
 

lxmeta

macrumors regular
Dec 6, 2018
187
223
Austria
In 2007 I would never use a mac from 2000 for work.

But now in 2020, I know lots of people who still use mac's from 2009/2010 and can do lots of work from it.

Apple really changed the computer industry with this move to ARM.
1606215488097.png

Confirmed! I don't think this thing is limiting me at the moment...
 

GlamCheese666

macrumors member
Jun 15, 2011
89
118
I’m gonna wait until my 2017 iMac is on its last year of support. Then I’ll upgrade. M1 is impressive, but my i5 processor still gets through all tasks I need just fine. I feel no need to upgrade until probably 2025.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,024
2,617
Los Angeles, CA
A) Pls provide citation of your claim

Go check MacTracker. A 2006 Core Duo Mac stopped being able to run the latest Mac OS X release with Lion in 2011; you could still get security updates for Snow Leopard, its final release through 2013. That's 5 years with a 2 year buffer for security update support. Compare that with a 2012 model (Ivy Bridge/3rd Generation Intel Core i series processor) Mac, which was able to run the latest version of macOS up until twelve days ago. That's 8 years with a 2 year buffer for security update support.

Go do the research for yourself.

B) WWDC 2005 keynote of Steve Jobs claimed a 2 year transition just like WWDC 2020 keynote of Tim Cook. 2005 has Apple having a market cap of $75 billion while 2020 having a market cap of $2 trillion. With more resources than AMD, Intel and Nvidia combined why can't Apple, who produced iPads and iPhones in the same quantity as the global PC market of 2019 need to take their time?

Because the chips are not ready yet. If they were, Apple would've fully replaced the entire Mac mini line and not only the low-end Intel model. Also, the M1 Mac mini would be a no-compromises upgrade (in the way that the M1 2-port 13" MacBook Pro was over its Coffee Lake predecessor) and not one where the maximum RAM is one fourth what it is on the Intel model and where there's half the number of Thunderbolt ports. Clearly the M1 has limitations because it's the best Apple can do right now.

Market caps don't mean anything. Apple doesn't need to throw more money at this; the M1 Macs are a critical success and it doesn't hurt Apple to do things exactly as they currently are doing things. Steve Jobs was a master salesman; under-promise and over-deliver. The Intel lineup was fine for the Mac to move at the exact time that it did and the Core Duo was perfect for all but the Mac Pro and Xserve, which waited for the Core 2-based Xeons to move. Once A15, and all associated advances become closer to releasing, you'll see higher-end Macs make the jump. Odds are decent that the Mac Pro's eventual Apple Silicon SoC will need even more time in the oven.

Who will buy any Intel Mac that is slower than any M1 Mac at a fraction fo the cost? If they keep to the two years declared they will suffer the Osborne Effect. Who would buy a $6,000 Mac Pro when $700 Mac mini can trample it?

People who still need x86. Not everything runs smoothly in Rosetta 2. And just because you don't need the things a Mac Pro or a 16" MacBook Pro customer might need doesn't mean that those customers don't need their installed software to be perfectly stable until it makes the jump to Apple Silicon.

There are plenty of people out there who will still be buying Intel Macs throughout this transition for that reason. Furthermore, it's not like an Intel Mac is a bad computer just because Apple Silicon is out. Maybe it's not the most practical decision, especially if everything one would do with their Mac is either Apple Silicon native or runs just as well in Rosetta 2. But that's not all people, especially on the high end.

Apple is going to move the machines over as fast as they can. And that length of time seems like it will be two years.


Apple makes iPhone chips in greater quantities than Intel and AMD combined on a 5nm process that neither x86 chip makers use.

That doesn't mean that they have chips that can feature-for-feature replace every Intel Mac. They have single-core performance down, but they don't have GPUs that beat out the current discrete graphics on the 16" MacBook Pro, 27" iMac, iMac Pro, or Mac Pro yet. That crap takes time to engineer. They also can't break 16GB of RAM or provide more than 2 Thunderbolt ports. That's critical. That's why this transition will take longer than the Intel one did. And really, those are factors that are specific to this transition (and wouldn't ever stop the previous transition due to not being applicable).

M1 is designed for less than 15W TDP. A future higher-end Apple Silicon chip designed for more than 15W TDP will come out for the iMac, MacBook Pro 16", and four TB4/USB4 port MacBook Pro 13"and Mac mini between January-April 2021.

You have different wattages on the M1 chips. That's why the M1 Air and M1 2-port 13" MacBook Pro have different chargers and why the latter operates with greater sustained performance than the former and why the M1 Mac mini, theoretically beats out both of them. Go take a look at Apple's M1 performance per watt graph. The performance scales as the wattage increases.


C) Intel and AMD will not be relevant on macOS as early as 2024.

Not for new Macs. But certainly for Intel Macs as far as driver support in new releases is concerned.

As to Intel & AMD being relevant on Windows is another matter. Apple's success with ARM may accelerate Microsoft giving equal resources to support x86 and ARM on Windows.

Microsoft isn't a chipmaker that designs its own SoCs and solely for its own products the way Apple does. Furthermore, for Windows 10 for ARM64 to succeed, Microsoft can't be the only company making devices for it. The other OEMs have to buy in as well. Microsoft could decide to make SoCs and license them to the other OEMs. That's a possibility. But for that to happen quickly would entail a ton of things happening.


Android chips do not have the performance per Watt of Apple chips but they do not have to be as they're superior to Intel and even perhaps AMD chips.

No, Android CPUs have good performance per watt as well. That's a byproduct of the ARM64 architecture. Android may not use said performance efficiently, but those SoCs are also beasts.


Imagine, by the year 2024 buying a Windows ultrabook powered by a Qualcomm, Samsung, Nvidia, Mediatek or Huawei chip that has better battery than any Intel or AMD chip. Laptops make up over 80% of all shipped personal computers. Desktops less than 20%.

They already exist and they do not perform well. Though a lot of that is the lack of decent x86 binary translation in Windows 10 for ARM64. Otherwise, the performance compared to Apple Silicon is leaving much to be desired. But that's because Apple has heavily customized their implentation of ARM64. Qualcomm and Samsung would need to do something similar and, even then, they won't have going for them what Apple does in that Apple as a chipmaker is only designing for Apple and only for Apple's operating system. That's not something that the others will remedy in four years.


The PC market is a fraction of the smartphone market so it is easy to takeover from incumbents.

Apple has SoCs suitable for all their Macs were completed months ago. They're just doing prototyping and testing so nothing launched between November to June will fail.

My turn to ask you for a citation here. There's no indication that Apple is ready with anything other than an SoC suitable for an entry level iMac at this point. Otherwise, the 2 Thunderbolt port limit and 16GB of RAM cap on the Mac mini (and continued sale of the higher-end Intel Mac mini models as well as the Intel 4-port 13" MacBook Pro) would lead me to believe that Apple still has a ways to go before they're ready to complete this transition.

Just like iPhone chips being designed today will be launched in iPhone/iPad by 2023 or 2024.
They don't spend three years in QA. That's not how that typically works.
 

Wanted797

macrumors 68000
Oct 28, 2011
1,799
3,832
Australia
Not waiting for M2, per se. Unfortunately, as Apple's quality control on OS releases (see High Sierra and Catalina) declines, I find myself going Windows more frequently. I'm due to buy the Intel Ice Lake 4-port 13" MacBook Pro in the very near future (as Boot Camp and x86 virtualization matter more to me than iOS and iPadOS apps running natively). I do and really want and ought to get my hands on an Apple Silicon Mac (for the sake of exploring and playing around with the few differences), but I don't know that I have to own one for the privilege. I might get an Apple Silicon Mac down the road to inevitably replace this one, and if I do, I'm sure whatever replaces the M1 2-port 13" MacBook Pro will be more than enough Mac for me (as again, I have Windows doing a lot of my heavy lifting app-wise). But I may also hop off the Mac bus. Either way, I don't need to buy one of the first couple revs of Apple Silicon; I was among the first to the Intel Macs during the PowerPC-to-Intel transition, I was much younger and more willing to run apps in Rosetta until I had native versions. I can certainly wait on this one, assuming I continue with the Mac platform at all.
That was a long way of saying “I’m not sure.”
 
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