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LonestarOne

macrumors 65816
Sep 13, 2019
1,074
1,426
McKinney, TX
Anyone who buys a computer for bragging rights is a fool. Even if it’s the fastest machine on the planet, it won’t be for long. Just buy whatever you need to get your work done, and unless your work changes dramatically, it will still be fast enough next year and the year after and the year after that.

I’m still running a first-generation iMac 5K with a fusion drive, and I’ll continue running it side-by-side with the MacBook Pro I just ordered.
 

rulymammoth

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2015
440
602
Bearing that the M2 is significantly upgraded - not sure how a chipset that's (at least in some benchies) as fast as a Ice Lake i7 will be obsolete (M2) in any way. Even if the M2 doubles performance next year - clearly when you look at the SpecINT chart between x86 and Apple Silicon that Anandtech published, it's clear why Apple went with their own silicon, and also that we will see likely the old "Moores Law" taking place with Apple Silicon and that each year will be a huge leap over the last for the forseeable future.
That sounds like a reasonable assessment. It’s staggering to think about the possibilities as it could mean people who need raw power may all switch to Macs if the software is there. I’m excited to see what this brings.
 

LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,342
9,446
Over here
There is very clearly a lot to come from AS in the future, but, the M1 for so many people will be fine for many years in terms of performance. Remember the placement with these 3 updated devices. They are entry-level, not directed at power users, they will need to wait for the M2 or whatever it will be called.
 
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cupcakes2000

macrumors 601
Apr 13, 2010
4,035
5,425
I am waiting for the next generation of MacBooks but not just because of M2, but because of mediocre 16 GB of RAM. I can’t live with that. I hope next gen will have at least 32.

I hope so. Since that RAM is not upgradeable, there is even more incentive to max out RAM on these machines.

The machines released replaced low end machines and didn’t alter the configuration at all. Ie, the Mac book air and the low end 13” pro have always only had max 16gb.

The mini is different. I believe that that is becuase they’re planing on a two tier Mac Mini. The low end as it stands now, and a high end replacement (Mac mini pro) for the Intel minis still on sale, including 10gbe, the pro version of the m1 capable of having more ram and more io. Something akin to what will come for the iMac and high end MacBook Pro’s.

I don’t know if the anger Linus has shown toward the M1 in his YouTube videos is genuine or not, but either way, it’s not normal.

Even if you believe the new Macs are the worst computers ever built, it’s not worth getting that upset about.

I’ve never seen this guy’s videos before or not, so I don’t know — is he always like that?
Guys a knob, that’s the problem.
 

Zazoh

macrumors 68000
Jan 4, 2009
1,516
1,121
San Antonio, Texas
A lot, umm many, okay some of you, remind me of the guy that has a 1000 horsepower car and only drives in the city.

The majority of computer users could get by with a Chromebook. The fact is we don’t know what 8GB of memory looks like on the M1 to say you need 3x that amount to multitask with reminders, notes and Safari on 3 monitors is ludicrous.

And, if you are in the thin use case that does, you have no business buying a MacBook Air for your workflow. Yes, I’m old, you kids get out of my YARD! ?
 

Mr.Blacky

Cancelled
Jul 31, 2016
1,880
2,583
Next year Mac mini, MacBook Air and the entry level MacBook Pro will keeping M1 and at WWDC Apple will introduce the M2 chip for iMac, MacBook Pro (and possible a Mac Pro Mini?)
 
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Gerdi

macrumors 6502
Apr 25, 2020
449
301
I doubt that Apple will refresh 15W and below TDP devices next year, which means the M1 will not be obsolete at all. Of course there will be SoCs coming next for devices 20W TDP and up - which of course will be faster than the M1. It is just that they do not replace the M1.
 

LonestarOne

macrumors 65816
Sep 13, 2019
1,074
1,426
McKinney, TX
To be fair, Apple set themselves up for this a bit by over-selling the "pro" credentials of the new Macs

There are pros and there are pros. The vast majority of professionals are not running CFD codes. They’re lawyers, accountants, building contractors, medical transcriptionists, etc. If a MacBook Pro can meet the needs of 95%, it is a professional machine.
 

BigSplash

macrumors member
Jun 4, 2009
40
23
Durham, NC
I'm waiting for my M1 mini to arrive next week and I would love to have Apple "smash" the M1 next year. I'm not so sure that Intel and AMD are looking forward to it. "Smashing" predecessors every year reminds me of the old days. WooHoo!
 

theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,011
8,444
There are pros and there are pros. The vast majority of professionals are not running CFD codes. They’re lawyers, accountants, building contractors, medical transcriptionists, etc. If a MacBook Pro can meet the needs of 95%, it is a professional machine.

A 2010 MacBook Air meets the needs of most, let's say "clerical" professionals (or would do if developers didn't add lots of pointless animations and web browser functionality into their spreadsheets). Apple's launch certainly wasn't evangelising the new machines' proficiency in Excel.

I don't disagree that "pro" is a pretty meaningless marketing term but generally in the Mac world it refers to graphical/video/audio content creation.
 
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cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,431
5,627
I think of these m1 devices as developer devices and to get the software transition going.

And perhaps will serve the needs of most non techies who buy entry level devices though they could struggle with some issues of things not working. That’s apples problem though.

But I don’t see these as dream devices for Mac enthusiasts to want to own them for 5-7 years. That involves a redesign and is yet to come. I’m sure you wanted more than this after months or years of apple moving to arm.
 

imdog

macrumors 6502
Jun 20, 2017
353
793
Disneyland
Linus is an Apple hater.

There’s no reason to think M1 will suddenly become obsolete. The M2 will probably be what, 20% faster in single core? If that makes the M1 obsolete then nearly every computer in existence is obsolete.
Yea and by that same logic the M1 already made nearly every computer obsolete ?
 
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CalMin

Contributor
Nov 8, 2007
1,889
3,692
As others have said, these chips and first gen Apple Silicon are here to kick off the transition. Apple has to start somewhere, and they are starting with M1. And it's quite the start if the hype and Geekbench leaks are confirmed. (Bear in mind that we won't really know how these machines run in the real world until next week.)

We know that this is just the start though. They haven't updated the designs around the new chips because:

1) They still need Macs to look like Macs so as not to spook general consumers. i.e. Apple is trying to make the case that a Mac is still a Mac.

2) Why deal with the transition at the same time as dealing with the engineering challenges that come with new form factors and hardware at the same time? Get the Apple Silicon working right, then switch attention to the hardware side.

I can't wait to see what comes next!
 
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DemNoir

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2007
105
85
Along with being an obnoxious fool Linus is just another corrupt YouTuber
A survey of his videos shows he has a close association with intel has made videos from their facilities and so on.
 
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iPadified

macrumors 68020
Apr 25, 2017
2,014
2,257
None of the discussed professions are the most compute heavy. Try simulations by scientists or ray tracing in 4K-8k movie quality (not games quality).

The “Pro” label is meaningless and I think it is so last century. I find that label misleading as well embarrassing. Apple is run by old men addressing old men making decision in the “pro” space so the label likely stays.

The M1 will work fine for many, many years but will be bested next year (or the year after) by a new generation processors. Well, surprise!!!
 

russell_314

macrumors 604
Feb 10, 2019
6,659
10,260
USA
IMO this is just Linus trying his best to convince people not to buy Apple products. He's still upset Apple didn't give him special treatment because he's a YouTube celeb ?‍♂️...

If you're looking for insight on Apple products go to a YouTube channel that focuses on Apple products. As to will the M2 be better than the M1 of course it will be. The M3 will be much better than the M2. If you don't buy a computer because next year's model will be better you will never buy one.
 

Sasha-1

macrumors 6502
Aug 11, 2001
468
182
Its from Linus´s livestream where he talked with Dave Lee about the M1 and all the media around it.

They agreed that the M1 will defniately be smashed to the ground by something else next year, that the m1 will be obselete then. Can they be right about that? Linus compared it to the Apple Watch which apparently the first version got smashed by the second version by far.

But isnt it always like this? Every year comes a better mac, why are they so "defensive" about that or use it as critisism? Dont all companies do this? Strive to make something better every year?

Linus also ment that people who buy the new macs with the M1 will basically be beta-testers for apple.

Thoughts?
I happen to think they're both wrong and I say that as a soon to be 53 year old, who has watched, personally, the transitions from the 68000 to the 68030 and 040, then to the 603 and 604 then the G3 and G4, the PowerPC G5 and finally the Intel. I called for, quite loudly, the migration to intel at a time when everyone was saying, "Intel inside, Idiot Outside". It was not a popular opinion until Steve Jobs made the same points I was making, which was performance per watt matters.

I think Linux thinks that the m1 is new. It's not. It's the evolution of Apple Silicon going all the way back to the iPhone 4. Will the m1 get smashed? Yes, but not next year nor the year after. The reason is simple. The m1 is already a 5nm chip. So you're not going to see die shrinks coming like that have been. We're already near the end of the die shrink. You may get 3nm next, and then it will crawl to a halt. So what's left? Better, cores, more additions that speed up operations. You'll see modest increases over time just as you've seen modest increases from the iPhone 7 to the 10, 11 and now 12. Does the A14 obliterate the 12x? No. It is better, yes, but does it make the 12x obsolete? Nope.

In each iPhone and iPad Apple has to deal with self-imposed thermo restrictions. And the same is true for the future of the Mac. Apple "wants" to make thinner, more quiet, less heavy Macs. They are not thinking about what they can do with a 128 core water-cooled system. They are thinking about what they can do better, faster, smaller, and quieter.

People like Linus live in a world where they are happy to build a huge box with three fans on a cooling block 30cm long just for the cooling. Look at the G5. Remember those two HUGE heat syncs with the two fans and the separate cooling zones? That was a compromise Apple never wanted to make. They would rather have a smaller, lighter, quieter, machine. They don't wish to be in the hair dryer market.

The next Mac Pro, will be smaller. That's what Apple Silicon does for them. That's what they want. It needs to be simple, more integrated, and thus cheaper to make and more reliable to own.

Remember what got us here. Think of it as a runway at the airport. How much of the runway is left? Think about the balance Apple is trying to create. The next iMac will be lighter, thinner. Less space on your desk. More screen, less bezel. That comes at a cost. They will not build the fastest machine possible. They will build within the self-imposed constraints of their design goals.

Linus would throw that all out and build big heavy water-cooled iron. He misses the point. What he suggests is what Intel did. They just cared about speed. And that ideal held Apple back. It made every PC maker the same. That's not what Apple wants.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Its from Linus´s livestream where he talked with Dave Lee about the M1 and all the media around it.

They agreed that the M1 will defniately be smashed to the ground by something else next year, that the m1 will be obselete then. Can they be right about that? Linus compared it to the Apple Watch which apparently the first version got smashed by the second version by far.

They probably completely missed the boat if comparing this to stuff like Apple Watch S1 or the original Apple A series . Or even the first A7 -> A8X transition.

Mostly because it has already happened. The M1 ( A14X ) walks over the A12X (A12Z) that Apple used in the DTK. Apple has already done the jump. By jumping onto the A-X series they jumped onto a already mature SoC rather than starting off at a blank slate. There is no "weak first stab because we haven't done this before " here. At least in the M1 space.
[ The M1 is highly likely approximately the same size die as the A12X/A12Z . It has more stuff packed into the same footprint. The lmitations of just two display streams also smacks of something destine to a future iPad Pro. Apple has a huge track record of using the same die in multiple products. So stretching the same die over the iPad Pro , MBA , MBP 2 port, and chopping down Mini is par for the course for them. ]

the proclaimations that it runs Metal faster, runs NSObject calls faster, runs Apple core library code faster, Apple ML library code faster ...... all of those optimizations will work just as well on iPadOS too.



The top end M-series of this generaiton probably isn't coming until later. More time also means that it won't be a "weak first stab" solution either. Especially if there is a pretty far gap (e.g. , that iMac 27" class SoC isn't coming until late Summer or Fall 2021. )

There is probably not big leap coming because Apple has just started on the 5nm process. Apple can do an optimization "tick" of Intel's old 'tick/tock" sequencing. But Apple probably isn't jumping to 3nm next Fall.

There are probably a few more process optimizations Apple could do. There might be a N4 (inbetween 5nm and 3nm ) process node to go through, but "smashed to the ground" is likely hyperbole. Incrementally faster is different than smashed into the ground. Pretty good chance that Apple won't want to go to a bigger die size for the M1 (A14X) and it will be pretty hard to get "smashed into the ground" out of the same size die with the same transistor density. ( unless this M1 implementation is a 'bad' 5nm design and they left lots of performance on the floor ..... which is way off of Apple's track record. )


There is likely also some presumption that Apple is going to throw the most bleeding edge fab tech possible at the largest die they have in the M-series as soon as possible. That likely isn't going to happen either. The M-series , just like the A-X series, is likely going to be on a slower cadence than the iPhone SoC will be. Smaller dies are easier to do faster.
 
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clangers23

macrumors 6502
Oct 27, 2016
325
447
Most YouTube tech channels are for entertainment only particularly those with millions of subscribers. I quite enjoy some of his content but don't take it seriously. He'll quite often take an opposing view and flip at a later date. The objective of the channel is solely to gain attention, drive traffic, sell merchandise and routine product promotion.

Bear in mind that the core of his subscribers are PC custom builders given the origins of the channel.
 
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symphony

macrumors 68020
Aug 25, 2016
2,232
2,641
Linus has some dumb logic. He thinks the first gen Apple Watch users were beta testers because Apple never gave the first gen a “series” moniker and referred it to series 0.

?? First of all, it’s just a ****ing branding, secondly, Apple isn’t going to retroactively change “Apple Watch” to something else.

This guy thinks every first gen is “beta test” devices lol ??????
 
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