What does Linus and Dave mean that M1 will 100% be replaced next year?

[boss.king]

If those criticisms make sense. I watched the video in question and he continued to make false statements and kept repeating them.

He makes a claim that Apple just mentioned i3 without a model number or even the system they went into in the foot notes. Repeats it as the reason for his angry video and how he doesn’t tolerate BS.




All I can conclude is Linus is an idiot and illiterate or deliberately misleading to double down his false claims by trying to paint Apple as being dishonest. It is very clear what systems were compared. The only one being dishonest here is Linus in both his videos.

You shouldn't have to go to the footnotes of a product page to find that info. Apple presented these on entirely unlabelled graphs, it's entirely their own fault that there was confusion about what they were comparing to. Also, even when they do clarify, they're still vague about what the comparison chips actually are. They mention the product line it's from, but still choose not to share the gen or an exact model number.

He also makes valid criticisms about the Mac Mini no longer offering expandable RAM (which the last model did) and reverting to 1GB ethernet when the last had 10GB, and he makes them because he uses 3 of them in his business infrastructure.

Yes, he got some of the details wrong, but not so wrong that his general point didn't track. That's my opinion at least. Obviously, we'll get a much clearer idea of how these perform soon anyway, but Apple should really have shared actual usable information on their performance, not vague handwaving around it being better than 98% of PCs sold or compared to the best-selling PC computer.

Either way, it's just an opinion, if you don't agree with it you can ignore it.

 

[Abazigal]

I am not really as certain that the M1 is "just an entry level chip". I think Apple isn't really planning to use the CPU as the big differing factor like it is with intel, specially not for single core.

Of course they plan more cores and "after burner" type of GPU boost for their Pro models but other than that I think that we already see much of the speed that is going to be in the 16 inch already. They can add some jumps in CPU power every year and still stay on top.

The big jump in the A-chips was some years ago, the A11 is still a very capable processor and I think that the future for M1 is looking pretty good.

I think again, people are making the mistake of looking at specs in a vacuum and not focusing enough on the user experience.

Of course the processor in the 16” MBP is going to be more powerful than that found in the 13” MBP or MBA. It’s also going to consume more power, which will likely be offset by the larger battery found within.

It’s got nothing to do with forced obsolescence. Apple looked at the tasks that people likely do on these devices, and made the appropriate tradeoffs. The people buying a MBA largely use it for lighter tasks like web browsing, word processing and maybe light video editing. The M1 more than suffices for this, but the main draw is really the longer battery life.

Apple is not holding anything back by not including a M1X processor in the MBA. They decided that the target audience simply doesn’t need it. The power you get from it is simply overkill, and battery life suffers.

It’s no different from the iPhone getting the A12 chip in 2018 while the iPad Pro got the A12x.

Different specs optimised for different use cases. Everybody wins.

 

[raknor]

Apple will always hobble the current gen in some ways to make the next model look even better.

That’s just nonsense.

 

[Populus]

I mostly agree with what most of you said: no, I don’t think this first M1 macs are going to become obsolete soon. I thought that maybe they might have less years of support, but I’m not sure about that.

And there’s another reason to think this macs won’t become obsolete soon. And that’s Intel macs. I can’t see a move from Apple where Intel macs are still supported and the M1 macs lose support from Apple. The latest Intel macs will be supported by Apple with new macOS releases for the next 6 years (minimum), so this M1 macs will be supported for at least this same amount of time.

 

[raknor]

They mention the product line it's from, but still choose not to share the gen or an exact model number.

They don’t even mention that on the tech specs of the produtcs. The point is Linus made claims that are blatantly false. He claims Apple picked some random i3 just to make the comparison look better, they didn’t. It is clear they compared he 3.6Ghz i3 in the previous gen Mac Mini.

Mac mini (2018) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

He also makes valid criticisms about the Mac Mini no longer offering expandable RAM (which the last model did) and reverting to 1GB ethernet when the last had 10GB, and he makes them because he uses 3 of them in his business infrastructure.

The last one didn’t have 10GigE by default it was an option. The Intel mini with the option to add 10GigE is still on the page and can be bought.

Intel model the one that used to be higher than the Model the new M1 replaced. Note by default 1 gig E.

Customize your Mac mini​

• 3.0GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i5 (Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz)
• 8GB 2666MHz DDR4
• Intel UHD Graphics 630
• 512GB SSD storage
• Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connector)

Yes, he got some of the details wrong, but not so wrong that his general point didn't track.

No he absolutely did!

That's my opinion at least. Obviously, we'll get a much clearer idea of how these perform soon anyway, but Apple should really have shared actual usable information on their performance, not vague handwaving around it being better than 98% of PCs sold or compared to the best-selling PC computer.

They did but some just don’t want to believe them. Most of the numbers are compared to the systems these models replaced.

Either way, it's just an opinion, if you don't agree with it you can ignore it.

That’s very convenient...

 

[boss.king]

That’s very convenient...

Surprise, that's how opinions work.

 

[Shivetya]

I will just wait for M5, by then it should be powerful enough to run a Starship

 

[raknor]

Surprise, that's how opinions work.

Yes if you share your opinion expect a response that’s how discussions work.

 

[boss.king]

Yes if you share your opinion expect a response that’s how discussions work.

He followed it up with a discussion on the WAN show, and I've followed up mine with discussion right here. I don't know why you think there's no discussion going on, what do you think we're doing right now?

 

[raknor]

He followed it up with a discussion on the WAN show, and I've followed up mine with discussion right here. I don't know why you think there's no discussion going on, what do you think we're doing right now?

I am criticizing his WAN show claims directly since that’s what this whole conversation is about. I rebutted your support of him.

You seemed to suggest that my only option is to ignore your opinion if I don’t like it. Sorry to burst your bubble that‘s not my only option.

 

[Sydde]

The 8086 was Intel’s first 16-bit general purpose CPU. The A7 was Apple’s first in-house 64-bit design. The M1 and A14 are more like a 486 or P5 from Apple. Still lots of headroom between there and an i9.

It is not entirely accurate to say that Apple designed the A-series processors themself. For the processing cores, they used IP from ARM holdings, to which they did contribute some as they are not your garden variety licensee, but the designs are not wholly their own. The neural engine thing, I am not clear what the origin of that was. Overall, though, to say that it is analogous to the 8086 is passing absurd. This basic architecture is not likely to change much at all for decades. Apple will just at stuff to the SoC.

 

[LonestarOne]

He also makes valid criticisms about the Mac Mini no longer offering expandable RAM (which the last model did) and reverting to 1GB ethernet when the last had 10GB, and he makes them because he uses 3 of them in his business infrastructure.

The fact that Linus doesn’t like something doesn’t make it a valid criticism. There is no law against offering a product for sale without expandable RAM or 10GB Internet. Nor is there any law that says Apple can only make things that Linus uses in his business infrastructure.

“There made something I don’t want to buy!” is a rant, not a valid criticism.

 

[boss.king]

The fact that Linus doesn’t like something doesn’t make it a valid criticism. There is no law against offering a product for sale without expandable RAM or 10GB Internet. Nor is there any law that says Apple can only make things that Linus uses in his business infrastructure.

“There made something I don’t want to buy!” is a rant, not a valid criticism.

If a customer can't complain about a product they like getting worse in ways that affect them, then what exactly do you classify as a valid criticism?

 

[raknor]

It is not entirely accurate to say that Apple designed the A-series processors themself. For the processing cores, they used IP from ARM holdings, to which they did contribute some as they are not your garden variety licensee, but the designs are not wholly their own.

This has not been true for the last 8 years. Apple‘s ARM cores designs since the A6(2012) have been wholly their own.

 

[KPOM]

Its from Linus´s livestream where he talked with Dave Lee about the M1 and all the media around it.

They agreed that the M1 will defniately be smashed to the ground by something else next year, that the m1 will be obselete then. Can they be right about that? Linus compared it to the Apple Watch which apparently the first version got smashed by the second version by far.

But isnt it always like this? Every year comes a better mac, why are they so "defensive" about that or use it as critisism? Dont all companies do this? Strive to make something better every year?

Linus also ment that people who buy the new macs with the M1 will basically be beta-testers for apple.

Thoughts?

Arm v9 is coming soon, so M2 or M3 will likely have an updated instruction set. Much like the first Intel Macs were 32-but all the others were 64-bit. That said Linus Tech Tips is notoriously anti-Apple.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Generally speaking, it's wise to ignore vloggers.

That said, it is highly likely that Apple will replace the M1 with something like an M1X. One doesn't need to listen to vloggers to figure this out. Just look at what they have done with their iDevices since they started designing their own silicon.

In 2021 they will also likely release an SoC with considerably more power. No one knows what it will be called but it could be something like the M10, suitable for a more powerful MacBook Pro variant and the iMac.

In 2022 they will likely release updated versions of both the M1X and M10, plus a high-end ASi processor suitable for the Mac Pro, the iMac Pro and maybe the MacBook Pro 16".

Remember that Apple has repeatedly stated that Apple Silicon would be a family of processors and it would be a two year transition. M1 is just the first step of many during this transition period.

 

[Joelist]

It is not entirely accurate to say that Apple designed the A-series processors themself. For the processing cores, they used IP from ARM holdings, to which they did contribute some as they are not your garden variety licensee, but the designs are not wholly their own. The neural engine thing, I am not clear what the origin of that was. Overall, though, to say that it is analogous to the 8086 is passing absurd. This basic architecture is not likely to change much at all for decades. Apple will just at stuff to the SoC.

Sorry but yes it is true. Apple starting with A6 ditched the ARM design specs and their CPU microarchitecture and core designs are 100% in house - the only thing in them that is ARM is the instruction set. Apple poached a lot of their design team from Intel. They also poached Johnny Srouji who was at Intel Israel and was part of the Core 2 design team - which may somewhat explain the resemblances between Apple's microarchitecture and Core 2.

 

[boss.king]

That said Linus Tech Tips is notoriously anti-Apple.

He's not, he's been very positive about a lot of Apple products and fairly consistent in his criticisms. He even addresses this in the WAN video that this thread is about. Unfortunately, some people here seem to confuse even mild criticism with outright hate.

 

[Joelist]

As to where M1 goes next, they have a lot of possible paths. I assume that when they roll out the A15 (or possibly even now with A14) the next member of the family will probably do things like:

- Add 2-4 Performance and probably 2 efficiency cores
- Add at least 4 GPU cores
- Increase cache accordingly
- Add the necessary buses for 4 USB-4 ports
- Possibly a 20 core Neural Engine

 

[KPOM]

He's not, he's been very positive about a lot of Apple products and fairly consistent in his criticisms. He even addresses this in the WAN video that this thread is about. Unfortunately, some people here seem to confuse even mild criticism with outright hate.

Come on. His post on Tuesday was pure click bait.

 

[LonestarOne]

If a customer can't complain about a product they like getting worse in ways that affect them, then what exactly do you classify as a valid criticism?

I never said customers can’t complain. Please pay attention to the words I write, not the imaginary words you imagine between the lines.

There are plenty of customers ordering the new machines right now. There‘s no law that says Apple can’t make products for people other than Linus Sebastian and no business reason why they shouldn’t. The fact that Linus doesn’t like a product should not matter to anyone except Linus.

I googled Linus’s background. Before becoming a screamer on the Internet, he worked for a computer store. That explains a lot. I’ve met a lot of salesmen who thought they were God’s gift to computing and everyone should buy what they wanted to sell.

 

[KPOM]

I never said customers can’t complain. Please pay attention to the words I write, not the imaginary words you imagine between the lines.

There are plenty of customers ordering the new machines right now. There‘s no law that says Apple can’t make products for people other than Linus Sebastian and no business reason why they shouldn’t. The fact that Linus doesn’t like a product should not matter to anyone except Linus.

I googled Linus’s background. Before becoming a screamer on the Internet, he worked for a computer store. That explains a lot. I’ve met a lot of salesmen who thought they were God’s gift to computing and everyone should buy what they wanted to sell.

Exactly. The MacBook Airs, Pros and Mac Minis arriving next week are faster than 98% of PCs sold on the market right now and the starting prices range from $699-$1299. They are great at running everyone that nearly all buyers want them to run. That won’t change if Apple releases chips 3 times as fast next year for power users.

 

[boss.king]

Come on. His post on Tuesday was pure click bait.

His titles are always clickbaity. He's explained before that that's unfortunately just part of running a Youtube-based business. But if you look at the actual content of his videos, he's been pretty fair. He (or his business) recommends a good chunk of current Apple products (iPads, Apple Watch, iPhone, Airpods, MBP 16", and even the MBA in some circumstances), and for the ones he doesn't like or recommend he gives reasons that are relevant to his audience (i.e. you can get more performance for less money elsewhere).

I don't get how that's considered hate.

 

[boss.king]

I never said customers can’t complain. Please pay attention to the words I write, not the imaginary words you imagine between the lines.

There are plenty of customers ordering the new machines right now. There‘s no law that says Apple can’t make products for people other than Linus Sebastian and no business reason why they shouldn’t. The fact that Linus doesn’t like a product should not matter to anyone except Linus.

I googled Linus’s background. Before becoming a screamer on the Internet, he worked for a computer store. That explains a lot. I’ve met a lot of salesmen who thought they were God’s gift to computing and everyone should buy what they wanted to sell.

You said he didn't give valid criticisms, and yet you can't seem to narrow down what a valid criticism is. So please, elaborate on what qualifies in your mind.

And yes, he worked at a computer store. That doesn't invalidate his knowledge of computers. What a weird thing to take issue with.

 

[raknor]

His titles are always clickbaity. He's explained before that that's unfortunately just part of running a Youtube-based business. But if you look at the actual content of his videos, he's been pretty fair. He (or his business) recommends a good chunk of current Apple products (iPads, Apple Watch, iPhone, Airpods, MBP 16", and even the MBA in some circumstances), and for the ones he doesn't like or recommend he gives reasons that are relevant to his audience (i.e. you can get more performance for less money elsewhere).

I don't get how that's considered hate.

He keeps parroting “photoshop won’t even be out for few months” on both his first video and the WAN one. What does that mean? He doesn‘t elaborate on how that is a criticism? Does he think Photoshop won’t even run on these new Macs or does he think it will run so poorly that it won’t be usable?

He says these are just glorified iPad’s, why?

For some one claiming Apple’s keynotes are misleading, I expect better more substance and reasoning for the points he made.. I’ll hold him to the same standards he holds Apple. Yet in his poorly produced follow up he did not provide any real substance.