That's not necessary to make the point. Windows has inconsistent behavior. Just accept it and move on. "Outside of a command prompt" is a meaningless distinction that you've raised solely to dismiss an otherwise valid point.
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MP All Models What is stopping you from using Windows?
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That's not necessary to make the point. Windows has inconsistent behavior. Just accept it and move on. "Outside of a command prompt" is a meaningless distinction that you've raised solely to dismiss an otherwise valid point.
Yes, it is completely necessary because the person I responded to said:
They chose control + C for copy, but in the command line it's used for quitting applications.
Therefore asking for an example of inconsistency outside of the command prompt, which is "inconsistent" in other operating systems as well, is completely necessary.
Then you should have no problem demonstrating as much when it comes to control+c as the poster I was responding to claimed. We're waiting.
Control-C is a legacy terminal sequence from TOPS-20, which was carried forward to UNIX and also to DOS via CP/M.
It is a poor example because it causes an equal inconsistency in MacOS: terminal programs use Control-C to cancel whereas Apple human interface-compliant GUI programs use Command-period.
It's a poor example because macOS uses COMMAND + X / C / V whereas every other operating system uses the standard CONTROL + X / C / V. Only Macintosh utilizes COMMAND instead of CONTROL. macOS is inconsistent, not Windows (or Linux).
At least we're no longer arguing with dotards who claim that Windows (NT+) is built on 16-bit DOS because the CMD prompt scripting language is an enhanced version of the DOS shell.
Actually, Linux had to adapt to the PC keyboards that became industry standard. Sun, and several other UNIX workstations had a Meta key, which was identical to Command. You see that in Emacs, where keyboard commands start with "M-". Microsoft ended up reversing the IBM PC decision by adding the Windows key in 1995.
The standard, at least on Windows and Linux, outside of a command prompt is:
Control+X - Cut
Control+C - Copy
Control+V - Paste
Within a command prompt:
Shift+Control+X - Cut
Shift+Control+C - Copy
Shift+Control+V - Paste
The standard on macOS for everything is:
Command+X - Cut
Command+C - Copy
Command+V - Paste
The reason macOS is "consistent" within GUI and the command prompt is the use of the command modifier instead of control.
Regardless this is a petty "inconsistency". Most Windows users will never encounter it because they're not using the command prompt. Unless someone can provide an example to the contrary Windows GUI applications consistently apply the control x/c/v method of cutting, copying, and pasting.
I used to.
iOS/iPadOS 13 broke that for me ...
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Use an XPS 280 hybrid, Retina MB 2015.
The XPS gets a lot more day to day use excluding work stuff.
When I use my MB, I find myself all to often fingering the screen trying to do something
At this time, my next MB will likely be a Linux or Windows hybrid machine.
Oh, I also use a Chromebook.
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What I'm saying is that's not a universal "standard". Sun, and several other vendors, used Meta-X, Meta-C, Meta-V (and actually had dedicated Cut, Copy, and Paste keys). NeXT had Command too, obviously descended from the Mac.
The problem was the PC didn't have enough modifier keys for GUI use. Linux had to follow generally, but it does know about the Meta/Command key, particularly for legacy programs that were designed for it, like Emacs.
What I'm saying is Macintosh is the odd man out. Standard or not Windows and Linux utilize the same behavior in the command prompt than Macintosh. Eliminate the command prompt out of the discussion, which is likely the case with 99.9% of Windows users, and it essentially becomes a non-issue.
IMO this is a manufactured issue to demonstrate a "problem" with Windows (and, conversely Linux) which has little real world impact for the majority of Windows users. Just like the "problem" of not being able to use SSH from the command line (which in fact is not a problem).
If people don't like Windows then they need to just say so...nothing wrong with that. But creating "problems" or rehashing those from the 1990's makes them look foolish.
You're not reading what I said. Windows is the odd man out in this case, because other non-PC workstations had a separate Meta key that behaved just like command. Otherwise, they had totally different key combinations (e.g. Control-W cuts, Meta-W copies, Control-K cuts to the end of the line, Control-Y pastes. Incidentally, the latter two still work on MacOS)
Linux is only following the IBM PC convention because that's the hardware which most people run it on, however it can adopt the "Mac" convention if you have the hardware.
The problem is the behavior which many people think is standard is merely the behavior IBM defined in 1987 (IBM CUA), postdating the Mac.
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You mean like Windows does? You can't claim that Linux, running on PC hardware, is being consistent and Windows, running on the same hardware, is being inconsistent.
What should be evident here is neither Windows nor Linux are the issue but rather the hardware they're running on. What should also be evident is this is likely a non-issue for 99.9% of Windows users. Again this is a manufactured issue in an attempt to demonstrate a problem with Windows. If it's a problem with Windows then it's a problem with Linux.
Windows has inconsistent behavior. The action performed by ^C varies depending on context. That's what inconsistent means. It doesn't matter one iota if that inconsistency is shared by other operating systems. All that means is that other operating systems are also inconsistent. This isn't rocket science.
Also, who the heck is "we"? You're just one person.
This thread is title "What is stopping you from using Windows?" and not "What do 99% of existing Windows users not care about?" The inconsistent behavior of copy/cut/paste in Windows is a continual annoyance to me when I am using Windows. I spend a lot of time in the shell -- even the deficient Windows shell -- and it always catches me out. I imagine if I migrated completely I'd eventually re-train my fingers and it would stop bothering me, but right now it's definitely a point of discomfort when I use Windows.
I assume from your tone and posts that you don't really use command line interfaces much. As a consequence, I think you're having a difficult time understanding the perspective shared by those of us who do use the command line interface a lot. There's nothing wrong with that, except for the part where you are completely dismissive of the real and tangible ways that Windows provides a sub-standard command line experience. It really, truly does. I don't use Windows daily, but I do use it at least weekly It's not a great experience. If I had to stop using macOS I'd be way more likely to switch to Linux because of this. I don't like Linux nearly as much as I like macOS, but it's a lot closer to to my needs than Windows is.
The one caveat is (as I mentioned before) that I'm encouraged by what I've seen with the new beta Terminal app from Microsoft as well as the promise of the upcoming WSL that will hopefully fix the egregiously poor disk performance of the current stuff. Microsoft is moving in the right direction right now, which is something I can't really say about Apple.
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I made the move a few years ago after being 100% Mac my whole life. I was hanging on to a 2008 Mac Pro and decided I couldn't wait any longer for a new Mac Pro. I built a PC with an AMD 1700x chip, then recently switched that out for a 3900x chip. My main apps are 3D and 2D, Cinema 4D and PS mainly. While I prefer Mac OS, if you stay in your app, the difference is not really noticeable. I remapped my keyboard to a Mac configuration and I still use my Mac Pro side by side with my PC.
The hardest part was making the switch and relearning a new OS and all it's quirks. I may be one of the lucky ones, but so far I haven't had any major issues with Windows. My advice is to stick with well known PC components that have proven to be reliable.
The hardest part was making the switch and relearning a new OS and all it's quirks. I may be one of the lucky ones, but so far I haven't had any major issues with Windows. My advice is to stick with well known PC components that have proven to be reliable.
Linux. It runs enough games (including Windows games via Wine/Proton) and enough business apps now that (for me) Windows is mostly irrelevant.
I refuse to be held hostage to Windows feature updates, Windows data collection, Microsoft's telemetry policy, etc. If/when i finally give up the mac, it will be iOS and Linux that replace it, not Windows.
I refuse to be held hostage to Windows feature updates, Windows data collection, Microsoft's telemetry policy, etc. If/when i finally give up the mac, it will be iOS and Linux that replace it, not Windows.
Aside from the difference in behavior between the command line and GUI apps please provide an example where control+c is inconsistent. We await your example.
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There's nothing lucky about your experience, it is common for users to sit down and just use their Windows systems. It's plainly obvious most of the naysayers here either lack experience with a modern version of Windows and / or are just rehashing old anti-Windows talking points.
Just as soon as you can come up with a convincing reason why the command line example doesn’t matter.
I don't think there's another inconsistency here.
I stated various other reasons and I agree that this keyboard shortcut inconsistency is a small one. Yet, I use command lines quite often and I copy paste quite often and I keep running into this problem where I'm "oops, I killed the app instead of copying the path" or something.
I agree that there are bigger reasons not to switch to Windows than that.
I stated various other reasons and I agree that this keyboard shortcut inconsistency is a small one. Yet, I use command lines quite often and I copy paste quite often and I keep running into this problem where I'm "oops, I killed the app instead of copying the path" or something.
I agree that there are bigger reasons not to switch to Windows than that.
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Convincing reason why the command line doesn't matter? OK: 99.9% of Windows users will never encounter it making it a non-issue.
Having said that I acknowledge it is an inconsistency but not one of Windows' making. Now that I've given you a convincing reason why the command line doesn't matter will you now provide an example where there's an inconsistency with control-c which doesn't involve the command line?
Why do I care about what affects the other 99.9% of windows users? This thread is about what is preventing me from switching to windows. Right?
We are talking about an issue which affects me.
You asked for a good reasons and I provided a good reason. Lack of example noted. Apparently you're unable to provide an example or unwilling to discuss in good faith. Either way I'm done trying to be reasonable with you.
A great way to be reasonable with other people would be to stop calling issues they face “non issues”
An issue that affects me is not a non-issue just because it doesn’t affect you.
The experiences of other users who aren’t me do not change that. You have not provided a good reason for me to ignore a deficiency of windows that affects me.
Dragging a file to the trash can on old Apple OS deleted the file. Dragging a floppy to the trash can ejected the floppy - it didn't erase the floppy.
Can you get any more inconsistent than that?