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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
Been thinking about that extender; bummer that you're restricted in your zoom range on the wider end. Maybe it's worth it.
I have both the RF 1.4x extender and the RF 100-500mm L. If planning to buy both the 100-500mm and the RF extender you have to consider that the RF lens cannot to be retracted below 300mm. If you want to transport the RF 100-500mm in its carry case (a very sturdy bag), you have to collapse it for it to fit in the case, something that's not possible if the RF extender is still attached (the the lens will stop collapsing at 300mm of its zoom range). Now, the EF extender/EF-lens combinations don't have such an issue.
 
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mtbdudex

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 28, 2007
2,896
5,262
SE Michigan
Well these EF lens aren’t really selling.
Listed 2 weeks now, dropped $100 each week from $1,300 to now $1,100.
This is a great value imo, guess the market for them has shrunk or saturated as people stopped buying DSLR’s .

e5df8d979df7d0e1e3a9951dff981786.jpg
 

mtbdudex

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 28, 2007
2,896
5,262
SE Michigan
Well when I lowered the price from $1300 to $1200 I had a few inquiries but no offers, lowered to $1100 crickets.
Lowered to $1050 and bam, 3 offers, sold today ..
0f452d9b0955016283d8b4659ed47bbc.jpg


Nice couple, she has a T6i, wants it for indoor and outdoor sports stuff among other usage. Her husband a wrestling coach, she will capture his teams matches.
 

SnowCrocodile

macrumors 6502
Nov 21, 2022
497
505
SouthEast of Northern MidWest
I used to be all midrange Canon before switching to Sony mirrorless.

Unless you’re into high speed sports shooting, mirrorless technology is superior if only because I can pack the same “punch” into a significantly smaller package.

However, I still dislike Sony’s colors. I got far better skin and sky tones with Canon straight out of camera that required far less post processing. I am not super skilled in that area, so having the camera help rather than hurt was a big plus.

On the other hand, I had significantly fewer out of focus issues right away, especially in portraits.

I think the mirrorless is the future and it’s now.
 

Biro

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2012
894
1,439
I used to be all midrange Canon before switching to Sony mirrorless.

Unless you’re into high speed sports shooting, mirrorless technology is superior if only because I can pack the same “punch” into a significantly smaller package.

However, I still dislike Sony’s colors. I got far better skin and sky tones with Canon straight out of camera that required far less post processing. I am not super skilled in that area, so having the camera help rather than hurt was a big plus.

On the other hand, I had significantly fewer out of focus issues right away, especially in portraits.

I think the mirrorless is the future and it’s now.
Not only is mirrorless the future, but soon there will be no choice if one wants to buy a camera brand new. With only one exception - Pentax - all of the other camera companies now either only make mirrorless devices or are only developing mirrorless. Canon and Nikon still offer one or two DSLRs - for now. But there is no mistaking what is happening.
 

SnowCrocodile

macrumors 6502
Nov 21, 2022
497
505
SouthEast of Northern MidWest
Not only is mirrorless the future, but soon there will be no choice if one wants to buy a camera brand new. With only one exception - Pentax - all of the other camera companies now either only make mirrorless devices or are only developing mirrorless. Canon and Nikon still offer one or two DSLRs - for now. But there is no mistaking what is happening.
Agreed. I just wish Canon’s initial entry into the mirrorless wasn’t such a disaster. I am now too embedded into Sony world to even consider Canon anymore.
 

dimme

macrumors 68040
Feb 14, 2007
3,264
32,138
SF, CA
Longtime Nikon F shooter (40+ years0 my main camera is a D750 which I used for nearly 10 years. It's developing a few issues and will probably need service. I just retired and will hopefully be shooting more so I looking to get into mirrorless because as others said DSLR are a dead end. Most of my glass will not work on the Z series. So I will be starting over. So do I stick with Nikon? Cost is a factor but I would like a smaller lighter system but would like to have coverage from wide to about 300mm and a nice macro lens. Can I achieve this with a budget of $5K
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Back in November of 2019 I made the big switch from Nikon to Sony. At that time Nikon was just getting started with their mirrorless line and I was quite disappointed because many of my older lenses would not work with the FTZ or if they did it made them manual focus only, which was not acceptable to me. Also at that time Nikon did not have any macro lenses on their roadmap and wouldn't for another year or two, and for me, macro was key.

In the years since then Nikon has of course brought out additional bodies and lenses in their Z system (including, yes, at least one macro lens) and also have developed a revised version of their FTZ adapter. I'm sure one or more of our members who are Nikon fans who use the current Z line will be able to answer questions about specific bodies or native Nikon lenses available now.

It's expensive making a fresh start in a new system, but definitely trading in or selling one's old gear outright helps defray the costs somewhat. Even at that, though, there will be some additional expense, as not only will you need a new body and lens(es) you'll also need new batteries (at least one spare) and if the chosen camera model does not include an external charger in the box you'll want one of those, too. Also many mirrorless cameras use CF Express memory cards (either Type A (Sony) or Type B (other brands) either in addition to or in place of SD cards. A CFE card will require a new memory card reader, too. I use a dual CFE/SD card reader since I still do have some cameras that use only SD cards.

You have options in format as well as brands: there's the smaller, lighter weight line of micro 4/3 camera bodies and lenses offered by a couple of manufacturers, as well as the major brands' offerings of APS-C bodies and lenses (in Nikon-speak, DX lenses) or full-frame bodies and lenses.

It took me over a year to arrive at the final step of actually switching to mirrorless, as I spent much of that time researching, watching videos and reading reviews, talking with others who were already using mirrorless, and also I waited for Nikon to finally make their announcement of their Z series so I'd know what they would be offering. Once I knew that then it made it easier to come to a final decision.

Check out each of the various manufacturers' offerings, see what appeals to you and what doesn't, taking into consideration what would be acceptable or what would not be acceptable at all, read lots of reviews on the various cameras and specific lenses in which you would be interested, etc., etc......
 
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Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Something I belatedly realized that I should have suggested earlier: it probably would be a good idea to start a new thread of your own, as that would more likely catch the attention of many members who would have good advice to offer, whereas your concerns expressed here in the midst of this thread are probably going to be lost in the shuffle and likely not seen by people who really could be helpful.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
I'm sure I'll get some disagreement on this, but the lack of a macro lens in a given lens mount is probably the last thing that would discourage me from using a system.

Yes, a lens on a good adapter that allows infinity to lifesize with AE is nice. I don't even get too hung up on AF, and the AF macro lenses I have are set to MF most of the time anyway.

Once you get into larger than lifesize, honestly a lot of the best lenses out there come in short mount anyway, or perhaps a standardized mount like M39.

If you want to do larger than lifesize photography, you're really going to be best served by a good set of bellows. The ones I use now are all F mount, but that's just because I don't know of a lot of 35mm format bellows that are as flexible as the Nikon PB4(and yes I do make use of the front swing and shift on them). For a budget set of bellows, there are lots of options out there in M42. There are plenty of M42 macro lenses out there, or there again go M42-M39 and throw a high quality enlarger lens on the front. Floating element macro lenses, which is going to include almost anything that can go infinity to 1:1 without tubes, and even some more modest half lifesize lenses like Nikon's much loved(by seemingly everyone but me) 55mm f/2.8 Micro add that in. Proper short mount macro lenses and enlarger lenses don't do that.

Back in the film days you'd have been doing stop down metering anyway(assuming your meter could read down that low) or getting out your ruler to calculate a bellows factor. With digital, if you can't meter it, you can just shoot and check. Live view/the EVF makes focusing easy-it can be a bit noisy, but it's less fussy than other focusing methods. I've used a clear field reticle screen(C screen) in an F2 with a 6x chimney to focus high magnification work. To do this you have to use a fiddly but very accurate method called parallax focusing. A big bright LCD on a DSLR or mirrorless camera is MUCH easier, especially if you throw in focus peaking. If you're using TTL flash, it's as easy as ever since metering with pre-flash works regardless of what lens is in front of it. With manual flash, which is what I usually use, it's a lot faster to just guess and check exposure than to measure and calculate.
 
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dimme

macrumors 68040
Feb 14, 2007
3,264
32,138
SF, CA
Something I belatedly realized that I should have suggested earlier: it probably would be a good idea to start a new thread of your own, as that would more likely catch the attention of many members who would have good advice to offer, whereas your concerns expressed here in the midst of this thread are probably going to be lost in the shuffle and likely not seen by people who really could be helpful.
I am still thinking stay with a DSLR and get a new Nikon body while they are still making them or switch to mirrorless. At my age I don't look at anything as a longterm investment😀. If I was 30 years younger It would not even be a decision. Photography has been my lifelong hobby and it does bring me much enjoyment.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
I am probably older than you are and for me the decision to go all-out with mirrorless was indeed the right one. We're all different, though! I love my mirrorless gear. For one thing, focus peaking, which helps enormously with macro and shooting in manual focus! I also appreciate being able to see specific information in the EVF and being able to immediately realize that I need to make adjustments of one sort or another before I actually press the shutter release! No longer any need for chimping, either. There are lots of advantages to mirrorless which a DSLR just cannot offer.
 
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mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,725
I am still thinking stay with a DSLR and get a new Nikon body while they are still making them or switch to mirrorless. At my age I don't look at anything as a longterm investment😀. If I was 30 years younger It would not even be a decision. Photography has been my lifelong hobby and it does bring me much enjoyment.

Here's a slightly different take for you to consider.

Is mirrorless the future? Yes. Does it make some aspects of photography easier? Yes, for me my manual focusing skills got a lot better (which surprisingly help me when I use an OVF camera even though I can't zoom in - maybe I developed more patience along the way).

But do mirrorless cameras suddenly prevent older, OVF cameras from working? Nope. Those cameras still work as well as they did, and while I am considerably younger than you, I still have been around long enough to remember all the excitement and hullaballoo as new dSLRs came out, with "better AF," "better colors," "better ergonomics," "better XYZ." But at the end of the day, they are just boxes that collect light.

I recently spent a few days using my old D700 and a few older lenses. This camera still makes magical images, even with a mirror! And my 15 year old lenses are still pretty great too. While it's true that the logical step from your D750 would be to go to mirrorless, you can get a lot more bang for your buck by choosing another D750 or even going to the D850 and spend a bit on some newer lenses (ones that would AF on a Z body if you go down that road in the future).

Longtime Nikon F shooter (40+ years0 my main camera is a D750 which I used for nearly 10 years. It's developing a few issues and will probably need service. I just retired and will hopefully be shooting more so I looking to get into mirrorless because as others said DSLR are a dead end. Most of my glass will not work on the Z series. So I will be starting over. So do I stick with Nikon? Cost is a factor but I would like a smaller lighter system but would like to have coverage from wide to about 300mm and a nice macro lens. Can I achieve this with a budget of $5K

I think you would be hard pressed to start all over in ANY system for under $5,000 if you want a new body, a macro lens, and a few other lenses in the range that you want. Right now mirrorless systems are more expensive than dSLR systems because the camera manufacturers want out of the dSLR business. You might not get the weight savings you desire, but you will for sure save your wallet and likely come out further ahead with new toys if you stick with the F mount stuff.

Since you have issues with your current body and legitimately need a new one, only you can decide if budget or size/weight is the larger consideration. But I don't think you should feel you need to switch to mirrorless just because it's new. Budget is a huge factor to think about, and maybe you'd really rather keep your existing lens setup and pair it with a new dSLR body that will last another 10 years and find a couple of fun lenses or other accessories to go with it.
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,725
I had a couple of other thoughts that I didn't get time to write earlier because I had to run out the door.

One, since you have never shot with an EVF, you don't know what you are missing. And I don't mean it in the way of "man, you don't know what you are missing, and you'll be blown away by upgrading." I mean it in the way that you've been using a camera for longer than many of us have been alive. I've seen your work. It's beautiful. You know it, you know how it works, you know the limitations. You don't strike me as someone who is out there needing bleeding fast AF or a blinding fps (that ultimately causes more work by having to cull a thousand duplicates). The gear you have works (except for the minor fact of a dying body) for you and the work you put out isn't likely to get an order of magnitude better just because your new camera no longer has a mirror. Your work isn't suffering now from the gear you use, and I don't suspect you are being limited by your current gear, barring needing something reliable.

My son had a lacrosse tournament this weekend. I took my Z6ii and my F mount Nikon 70-200 f/2.8. The lens is pretty old; I'd guess I got it in 2011 or 2012. I've honestly never felt limited by my gear, but there were a handful of times over the weekend that I started to worry that the AF wasn't up to par. And even though I'm not in the market for a new camera, I of course stay relatively up to date with the new releases, and on the drive home I started to research how much better the Z8 might be. I don't actually want a new Nikon body, if I were to spend money on camera gear it would be on something else. But I started to think that maybe all those reviews I've read meant that my Z6ii really was failing me in some way.

I looked through my photos this morning after I culled and edited them. I took 745 images and deleted a whopping 46 total for missed focus. Some were complete misses where the camera just got confused, and some I think even the most sophisticated AF would have missed because my son ran behind someone else and wasn't even visible except for the smallest part of a leg or stick - there wasn't anything to track in that exact instant, so the camera picked the next closest player. I then realized that it's doubtful a new $4,000 camera body would get me substantially more in focus images. I lost 6% of the images. To me that's not very many, as a hobbyist mom photographer, especially since the vast majority of my work is not AF demanding.

There are very distinct reasons why someone might want to transition from dSLR to mirrorless, and I'm certainly not unhappy that I did so in 2019. But the vast majority of my images are keepers, and if I lose 46 over two days of intense work, I'm okay with that, especially if it means not shelling out $4,000.

You've stated your current camera is unreliable, and that's an excellent reason to look for an upgrade. But just really think about your body of work and what you need in a camera before worrying that you need the next shiny thing. (I don't think you are thinking that at all based on your comments, but it's a good message for others reading this.)
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,998
9,976
CT
Yes mirrorless is the future. That doesn't mean you need to just throw your old gear out and start over. If you what you have works, stay with it. When you are ready to upgrade that is the time to decide what system you want to dive into. All 3 major systems are maturing now and the lens selection is getting better all the time.
 
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mtbdudex

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 28, 2007
2,896
5,262
SE Michigan
Kinda bummed out… ordered 10/16, others have gotten theirs weeks back .. called and no eta on mine, so just cancelled my order.
Will look again in spring 2024.
3d86e102a6f263aacaff4edaaba5d40d.jpg
 
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r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,210
12,757
Denver, Colorado, USA
Kinda bummed out… ordered 10/16, others have gotten theirs weeks back .. called and no eta on mine, so just cancelled my order.
Will look again in spring 2024.
3d86e102a6f263aacaff4edaaba5d40d.jpg
Did you check other stores? Sometimes you can get stuff faster from local or smaller camera stores than the national chains. Worth a look, at any rate.
 
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Abdichoudxyz

Suspended
May 16, 2023
381
354
Longtime Nikon F shooter (40+ years0 my main camera is a D750 which I used for nearly 10 years. It's developing a few issues and will probably need service. I just retired and will hopefully be shooting more so I looking to get into mirrorless because as others said DSLR are a dead end. Most of my glass will not work on the Z series. So I will be starting over. So do I stick with Nikon? Cost is a factor but I would like a smaller lighter system but would like to have coverage from wide to about 300mm and a nice macro lens. Can I achieve this with a budget of $5K
I bought a Nikon Z6 in 2019, having owned and used a D600 for several years. I was looking to get a smaller, lighter 'travel' cam to replace the little D3300 I'd bought for such purposes. That itself was an excellent cam, just a little lacking when it came to lower light situations. And I didn't find the DX lenses to be as good as the FX versions; my 35mm f1.8 DX just wasn't up to the same quality as my FX 50mm f1.8 lens. I had a 16-85mm DX lens, but again, that wasn't as good as my 24-120mm f4 for my D600. Oranges and apples, I know, but I felt the smaller format just didn't offer me what I wanted.

The Z6 turned out to be a revelation. Smaller and lighter, yes, but it's the image quality that blew me away. I'd always been very happy with the D600. The 24Mp sensor was excellent in low light. But the difference between the two mount systems is the quality of the lenses. The much shorter flange distance means better optical designs can be achieved; this is why Leica rangefinders were so popular. My 'kit' 24-70 f4 lens is fantastic, and the Z-mount 50mm f1.8 is another level better from even the best F-mount versions (which were already excellent). I've also added a 14-30mm f4, and the simply brilliant 105mm F2.8 macro. The Z6 itself is even better in low light, with the newer version of the same 24Mp sensor as in the D600, D750 and D780. The D600 was good to around ISO 6400; the Z6 is good for at least another couple of stops. I've had excellent useable results from ISO 51,200. That is simply astonishing. The D200 I'd had for a short while before I bought the D600, was good to ISO 1600. In good light, there's not so much between the two, but if you're pixel peeping, the Z6 has a slight edge. I work quite a bit in poor lighting situations, and the Z6 has more refinement and better control of noise, colours, edge contrast and that. Side by side though, you'd be hard pressed to tell the differencees; they're subtle and only really become apparent through use. Ergonomically, the DSLRs are better imo; especially with larger lenses. I use a few older F-mount lenses with the FTZ adapter, and they work perfectly fine. You say most of your lenses won't work on the Z series; do you mean older mechanical AF lenses? Because other than that, pretty much all F-mount lenses will work just fine on them, or at least as well on any DSLR body. The mechanical AF lenses just wont AF. Which I know, is very annoying.

For a $5k budget, you could easily get into mirrorless. A Z6ii body, perhaps, if you want something similar to your D750. A Z7ii if you want more pixels for say landscapes and that (not quite as good in lower light though). You could afford sometihng like a Z8 and a 24-120 f4 zoom, although that leaves you with nothing really to play with. Remember that older AF-S lenses, that is, lenses with built in AF motors, will work perfectly fine with the FTZ adapter. So you could get something like a 300mm F4 AF-S lens used, or even a f2.8 version if you want to spend the extra. If you're happy with MF at the wide end, where focus accuracy isn't as important, then there's loads of inexpensive options that will work with the FTZ adapter. So you can definitely get into ML for your budget, easily.

Moving to another brand is of course an option, although Nikon have caught up and are now surpassing Sony in terms of some of the lenses they are making. Very little real world differences, swings and roundabouts really. Canon would allow you to use loads of old EF lenses with an adapter. I stuck with Nikon because I could still use most of my lenses perfectly fine with an adapter. AndI'm very happy with the improved image quality the new S-Line lenses are delivering.

I still have my D600, I just rarely use it now. It's currently on loan to a friend, who wants to get back into photography. DSLRs are still perfectly capable photographic tools. And with the S/H market growing, will continue to be great for many years to come.
 
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mtbdudex

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 28, 2007
2,896
5,262
SE Michigan
Did you check other stores? Sometimes you can get stuff faster from local or smaller camera stores than the national chains. Worth a look, at any rate.

I’ve reallocated the $2k towards other things for now. Plus with winter my usage of the 10-20 is limited ..
 
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mtbdudex

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 28, 2007
2,896
5,262
SE Michigan
Well saw the canon prime RF 2.8 16mm on sale, considered it as $250, seems many are dissatisfied with it

7af6367d3a185572659c8cbc979ab552.jpg



“I really really REALLY wanted to like this lens. I love shooting wide, and a tiny fast ultrawide would let me have one on hand everywhere all the time. Unfortunately, the rendering of this lens is quite poor. To be sure, you can still get good results depending on how and what you shoot. If you give it good lighting, forgiving scene, lots of post work... sure, you can get it to produce decent images. But the lens is very finicky and fragile (not physically, but in image quality). There are plenty of other reviews about how distorted the image is before it's corrected computationally. I have many other lenses that do this, too, and I have no problems with this technique in general, but this lens seems to have to correct so much that it still ends up with a pretty poor distortion and sharpness falloff. The contrast on this lens is also frustratingly inconsistent, regularly leading to an almost HDR-like flatness when the light isn't bright sunlight. An f/2.8 lens is supposed to be usable in the shade and indoors, and yet this lens just doesn't look good. Even when the image is technically fine and at its best, it's aggressively lacking in that ineffable rendering quality of microcontrast or the [Zeiss/Leica] look or 3D pop that people argue over. I've looked at samples from other photographers to see if I had a bad copy, but I see the same thing there, too. If the samples generally look good to you, maybe this won't bother you, and you'll be happy with this lens. But I have to say this is one of the worst-rendering Canon lenses I've ever owned. It's really too bad, because it's so easy on the pocket and pocketbook. If you don't have to go so wide, the 28/2.8 pancake is a much better option.”
 
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Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Aw.... mtbdudex, sorry that the Canon RF 16mm f/2.8 STM lens is so disappointing and that you're not at all happy with it after you tried it on your camera. That kind of situation really sucks, doesn't it? Are there any other lenses within that general range that you could try out?

Assuming this is still not just a Canon-only thread, I'm poking my head in here in the first place to agree that shooting in wide-angle is a whole other world of its own. Just recently I bought the new Sony 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II lens, and so far I've been pretty happy with it but since shooting wide does not come naturally to me I definitely am still needing improvement in my technique when working with wide-angle or ultra wide-angle lenses..... It's challenging! The best way to learn is of course, regardless of brand, to spend some serious time with a given lens!

Hope you have no difficulties in returning this lens and can find something else which will suit your needs, usage and shooting patterns much more satisfactorily.
 
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GumaRodak

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2015
583
362
I have purchased a z6 when it comes out, its good but it have limitations in low light and fast action. I bought used D5 with 100k clicks for less than a new z6…the z6 feels like a toy to it..the d5 is now my main camera for everything lol…
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,360
12,603
Here's a slightly different take for you to consider.

Is mirrorless the future? Yes. Does it make some aspects of photography easier? Yes, for me my manual focusing skills got a lot better (which surprisingly help me when I use an OVF camera even though I can't zoom in - maybe I developed more patience along the way).

But do mirrorless cameras suddenly prevent older, OVF cameras from working? Nope. Those cameras still work as well as they did, and while I am considerably younger than you, I still have been around long enough to remember all the excitement and hullaballoo as new dSLRs came out, with "better AF," "better colors," "better ergonomics," "better XYZ." But at the end of the day, they are just boxes that collect light.

I recently spent a few days using my old D700 and a few older lenses. This camera still makes magical images, even with a mirror! And my 15 year old lenses are still pretty great too. While it's true that the logical step from your D750 would be to go to mirrorless, you can get a lot more bang for your buck by choosing another D750 or even going to the D850 and spend a bit on some newer lenses (ones that would AF on a Z body if you go down that road in the future).

This is really important for people to understand. The sensor image quality, at least in the new Nikons, still isn't really any better than the DSLRs were. In fact the dynamic range on the Z8 and Z9 regressed versus the D850 at low ISO.

If you're looking for a beautiful still image, and you have developed strong technique, the late model DSLRs are every bit the cameras the current line of mirrorlesses are.

What mirrorless offers is features-- AI based detectors in the focus system, 5 axis VR on some lenses and 3 axis sensor based stabilization on all. Higher frame rates, improved video modes. In-the-viewfinder rendering of your camera settings, and data overlays for things like focus peaking.

Again looking at Nikon, I'm less familiar with others, the updated lens mount made it easier to design certain kinds of lenses, so there is some weight and size savings in the mirrorless lenses, and some image quality improvements from the optical design as opposed to the camera sensor.

So the mirrorless systems offer benefits, but they're mostly visible in the camera electronics and only very subtly visible in the image quality when you're really paying attention.

I'm in the process of switching over to mirrorless, but it wasn't an easy decision for the reasons above. For all the reduction in complexity that mirrorless brings, it doesn't really show up as a reduction in price. That means that it's not cheap to trade up and the benefits are mostly in how it takes pictures, not so much in how those pictures turn out.

But it's the future, so this is when I arbitrarily decided to make the change. I think there's going to be a lot of really good and affordable equipment on the second hand market for a while though that will take excellent photos for the people who miss the sound of the mirror flipping up.
 
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