When will mirrorless take over DSLR ... and time to sell mirror DSLR equipment??

[Jumpthesnark]

A military photographer I know used cellphones and his cameras to photograph the war in Iraq. Yes, that was several years ago, but I have no doubts that cellphones are becoming quite useful at the war front.

I was just replying to your post, but it looks like you removed the linked article (I was going to mention that though it does describe how soldiers and civilians are using the latest consumer technology in Ukraine, it specifically doesn't mention photojournalists).

As I said earlier, most photojournalists in Ukraine use cell phones to communicate and to capture video clips that are used on occasion. Definitely useful. And while I'm sure some use them to take photos for publication as well, from what I've seen while checking metadata, phones aren't really what is being used by professionals. On occasion there are "UGC" images that were crowdsourced and moved to the wires. Those are, by far, in a very slim minority of images.

EDIT: Added "in Ukraine" for clarity on what photojournalists I'm discussing.

 

[ericgtr12]

TBH there's never a time I don't pull out my iPhone to capture shots while on actual photoshoots with my DSLR and Mirrorless cameras, IMO it's always in our best interest to use any camera at our disposal. Today's cell phone cameras are far superior to older point and shoots anyway.

 

[Reality4711]

Could not return to the mirror.
My last mirrored camera Nikon D850.
My last film mirror SLR. Eos 1V.
Previously medium format & large format.
Each change cost a fortune; cut the weight and waiting time to the final product and in no way affected my sales or personal pleasure.
Now. The camera takes time to get as you wish but from then on outperforms each nifty machine that has gone before. 160mb image from a camera kept in my pocket on lone to me last week end. WOW!
I own the lens so my next ‘upgrade’ and last after p/ex will cost a grand. Cheapest of them all.
Oh and images edited on iPad and Affinity.
This is just beyond good and I just could not go back.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I was just replying to your post, but it looks like you removed the linked article (I was going to mention that though it does describe how soldiers and civilians are using the latest consumer technology in Ukraine, it specifically doesn't mention photojournalists).

As I said earlier, most photojournalists in Ukraine use cell phones to communicate and to capture video clips that are used on occasion. Definitely useful. And while I'm sure some use them to take photos for publication as well, from what I've seen while checking metadata, phones aren't really what is being used by professionals. On occasion there are "UGC" images that were crowdsourced and moved to the wires. Those are, by far, in a very slim minority of images.

EDIT: Added "in Ukraine" for clarity on what photojournalists I'm discussing.

That you for clarifying it. You are correct.

 

[mtbdudex]

We just booked our family vacation for 2023, Alaskan cruise June 10-17.
Interesting my wife asked me “will I take my R5 and some lens?”, honestly I don’t know if I will or not.

Way back in 2014 of course I took my 70D and lens on our 3 week out west camping vacation , iPhone was 5s then.
The 70D with epic photos ; landscapes, vistas, night astrophotography, etc.

Now, I have an iPhone 14 Pro.. don’t feel the true need for the R5 on the cruise.

Fwiw, one of my most memorable picture from 2014 shows me holding my 70D, as a stranger used my iPhone 5s to capture the memory.

 

[mollyc]

We just booked our family vacation for 2023, Alaskan cruise June 10-17.
Interesting my wife asked me “will I take my R5 and some lens?”, honestly I don’t know if I will or not.

Way back in 2014 of course I took my 70D and lens on our 3 week out west camping vacation , iPhone was 5s then.
The 70D with epic photos ; landscapes, vistas, night astrophotography, etc.

Now, I have an iPhone 14 Pro.. don’t feel the true need for the R5 on the cruise.

Fwiw, one of my most memorable picture from 2014 shows me holding my 70D, as a stranger used my iPhone 5s to capture the memory.

Personally I wouldn't be able to go on a vacation without a real camera of some sort, but everyone is different. I hope you have a great time!

 

[AlaskaMoose]

We just booked our family vacation for 2023, Alaskan cruise June 10-17.
Interesting my wife asked me “will I take my R5 and some lens?”, honestly I don’t know if I will or not.

Way back in 2014 of course I took my 70D and lens on our 3 week out west camping vacation , iPhone was 5s then.
The 70D with epic photos ; landscapes, vistas, night astrophotography, etc.

Now, I have an iPhone 14 Pro.. don’t feel the true need for the R5 on the cruise.

Fwiw, one of my most memorable picture from 2014 shows me holding my 70D, as a stranger used my iPhone 5s to capture the memory.

All depends on the type of cruise you plan to take such as land or water. For example a zoom lens from 100-500m to photograph sea life (whales, seals, walrus, and even birds) would be more useful than your iPhone. But the iPhone is perfect for family and friends, selfies, group shots, and the mundane shots around museums, streets, and so on. Just keep in mind that when taking pictures by the water it is a good idea to have the camera strap around your neck.

I only have one RF lens, the RF 100-500mm. I purchased it because all I had were EF L primes up to 400mm and needed the extra reach, plus lens lightness. This lens works well for closeups perhaps from 3-4 feet from the subject, even focused at 500mm. But if you have an EF-L zoom lens from 100 up to 400mm, it could be quite handy for large-size wildlife.

 

[sfphoto]

Subject title says it all:
When will mirrorless take over DSLR ... and time to sell mirror DSLR equipment??

I've been in this as a hobbyist since 2009, Canon T1i now a Canon 70D.
Did the lens upgrades over the years, now have the 2.8f L 70-200 mkII + 2 TC's, UWA 11-16 lens, and a few others.

I've been ... well lagging using the photo equipment recently, enough that I'm on fence post of selling it all ...
I'm 57, looking at retiring 3-4 years max, then get back into photography for hobbyist fun.

Truly love Photography, but if mirrorless is the way of the future for DSLR is now the leading edge to sell when my gear will get decent $'s, instead of 3-4 years later when the resale will tank??

Thoughts?

Canon & Nikon sell about 4x more DSLR's than they do Mirrorless.
Overall Mirrorless sales are less than half of all interchangeable lens camera sales by all major makers.

IMO DSLR cameras will not become unpopular within my lifetime.

AFAIK DSLR users prefer the optical viewfinder experience and the low shutter lag.

I switched for the smaller size (mainly lens size).

 

[ericgtr12]

Canon & Nikon sell about 4x more DSLR's than they do Mirrorless.
Overall Mirrorless sales are less than half of all interchangeable lens camera sales by all major makers.

IMO DSLR cameras will not become unpopular within my lifetime.

AFAIK DSLR users prefer the optical viewfinder experience and the low shutter lag.

I switched for the smaller size (mainly lens size).

I'm one of those users, while I like my Sony AR7iii I still find myself using my 2012 Canon 6D most of the time. Like the thunk of the shutter, optical viewfinder and feel much better. I'll still use the Sony from time to time but only in certain situations where it can be more useful.

 

[Clix Pix]

I am one who is completely and wholly happy using mirrorless camera bodies and lenses and I do not miss my old DSLRs at all. I really value the information which is so readily available to me now in the EVF, being able to immediately see and respond to the impact if and when I make adjustments to settings.

I also greatly appreciate having the choice of having a shutter sound when I make exposures in some situations (where camera-generated sounds don't matter to the subject, to others or to me) or switching the camera into "Silent Mode," which is a real advantage when shooting in specific scenarios such as being with wildlife outdoors or when indoors, having the ability to shoot photos quietly and unobtrusively during certain types of events where a noisy shutter sound would be and usually is quite disruptive and very annoying to most participants.

Shutter lag? I have yet to experience that in my Sony gear, either in my A7R V or the A7R IV body which preceded it, or in my A1. Can't speak to what may be going on with other brands and their versions of mirrorless gear, of course, but I would think shutter lag is a relic from the past by now in most current systems.

At this point in time the photography world in general is still in transition, and there are those who are still using older gear and mixing-and-matching older lenses with (often via adapters) both older bodies and newer current bodies, and there are those who are maintaining and using two different brands and types of gear or two types within the same brand as they familiarize themselves with the newer photographic technology system in town. Still others just jump immediately into a current new system and let the past fade truly into the past.....

 

[r.harris1]

At the end of the day, each style, mirrored or mirrorless, is just another "paintbrush". We've had mirrorless cameras since the dawn of photography, to be pedantic about it. Using a particular style of image capture device allows us to think about and approach a scene in unique ways, as do the lenses we attach to the camera. A digital back (basically a computer with a sensor attached) can be both mirrored or mirrorless, depending on what you attach it to. A rangefinder is of course mirrorless. DSLRs and their mirrorless ILC analogs both offer different ways of "seeing". That's ultimately what it's all about. I always like to say that it's a rare person who would ever know what camera I use on any given image but the important thing is that I know, and for me, having a paintbrush that informs the way that I think about any image is important.

To me, these questions are never important:

* I'm using brand X with amazing tech A,B and C. Will I have better images than someone with brand Y with different tech? (Answer: highly unlikely)
* Is brand X better than brand Y (most likely not )

Find your paintbrushes and your color palette. If I walk out of the door with a rangefinder (mirrorless), I'm going to approach a given scene differently than if I walked out with a digital back attached to a tech cam (mirrorless) or walk out of the door with a DSLR or a Z, say. None are specifically better than another, it's just that it shifts the mind. You (should) see differently. "Reverse engineering", that is, someone seeing an image produced by a photographer and reproducing it on whatever camera is always going to be possible. But does that matter? It's the creation that matters.

 

[orionquest]

Use whatever tool works best for you. 🤷‍♂️

 

[bunnspecial]

Meanwhile, I've been shifting around DSLR gear.

I sold off several superfluous lenses, and figuring there will never be a better time I turned around and bought a D5 and a 300mm f/2.8 VR. The D5 won't be my main camera-I don't see my D850 leaving that role any time soon as IMO it's a better rounded camera. With that said, I've owned my fair share of other single digit Ds(and have a D1/H/X, D2H, D2X, and D3s now) and I think anyone who has used one will agree that nothing handles like one. There's an argument to be made that a gripped D850 at 10fps is 95% of the camera of a D5, but I've noticed some deficiencies. Not that I need high frame rates often, but the viewfinder in the D850 is pretty rough at 10fps where the faster mirror in the D5 helps. Even though the D5 and D850 share the same AF module, I've noticed the D850 can be a bit reluctant on initial focus point acquisition and can even be a bit jumpy, and others have reported that this isn't as much of a problem with the D5.

The AF thing seems a big deal to me, as at least in Nikon land the reports I've seen on the Z9 are that the AF performance is roughly at D850 level, while the D6 pulls out even further ahead. Of course I realize mirrorless AF has other advantages(specifically full frame focusing and for on-sensor contrast detect much better accuracy than an SLR design could ever hope), but for pure speed DSLRs still seem to hold at least a slight advantage. Would I notice that? Probably not, but it's there.

As for the 300mm f/2.8, I don't have a great case for it, but I was amazed at how relatively inexpensive they are now in F mount and I've always wanted one in some form or fashion. I'm just hoping the weight doesn't turn it into a shelf queen for me.

At least too it seems to me that super-teles are still dominated by DSLRs. The reduced backfocus distance of mirrorless isn't an advantage for long focal lengths as they already tend to sit well forward of the mount(look at how many good teleconverters only for long lenses take advantage of this by poking well into the back of the lens), and there comes a point where when you're using a 6lb, foot long lens(or larger) it's questionable how much benefit a smaller mirrorless body offers.

 

[ericgtr12]

Use whatever tool works best for you. 🤷‍♂️

^ This. As long as you're out shooting it doesn't matter at all, I would use a disposable from a vending machine. It's all about composition and interesting shots anyway.

 

[mtbdudex]

Meanwhile, I've been shifting around DSLR gear.

I sold off several superfluous lenses, and figuring there will never be a better time I turned around and bought a D5 and a 300mm f/2.8 VR. The D5 won't be my main camera-I don't see my D850 leaving that role any time soon as IMO it's a better rounded camera. With that said, I've owned my fair share of other single digit Ds(and have a D1/H/X, D2H, D2X, and D3s now) and I think anyone who has used one will agree that nothing handles like one. There's an argument to be made that a gripped D850 at 10fps is 95% of the camera of a D5, but I've noticed some deficiencies. Not that I need high frame rates often, but the viewfinder in the D850 is pretty rough at 10fps where the faster mirror in the D5 helps. Even though the D5 and D850 share the same AF module, I've noticed the D850 can be a bit reluctant on initial focus point acquisition and can even be a bit jumpy, and others have reported that this isn't as much of a problem with the D5.

The AF thing seems a big deal to me, as at least in Nikon land the reports I've seen on the Z9 are that the AF performance is roughly at D850 level, while the D6 pulls out even further ahead. Of course I realize mirrorless AF has other advantages(specifically full frame focusing and for on-sensor contrast detect much better accuracy than an SLR design could ever hope), but for pure speed DSLRs still seem to hold at least a slight advantage. Would I notice that? Probably not, but it's there.

As for the 300mm f/2.8, I don't have a great case for it, but I was amazed at how relatively inexpensive they are now in F mount and I've always wanted one in some form or fashion. I'm just hoping the weight doesn't turn it into a shelf queen for me.

At least too it seems to me that super-teles are still dominated by DSLRs. The reduced backfocus distance of mirrorless isn't an advantage for long focal lengths as they already tend to sit well forward of the mount(look at how many good teleconverters only for long lenses take advantage of this by poking well into the back of the lens), and there comes a point where when you're using a 6lb, foot long lens(or larger) it's questionable how much benefit a smaller mirrorless body offers.

Hence with my Canon R5 I’m keeping my EF L lens 70-200 f2.8 II. It’s paid for, tack sharp, and with RF-EF converter lens TC 1.4x and 2x I’ve got 560mm reach, which I’ve used for some outdoor sports events.. my sons HS snow ski team. You can’t even use TC’s on the RF 70-200 f 2.8.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Hence with my Canon R5 I’m keeping my EF L lens 70-200 f2.8 II. It’s paid for, tack sharp, and with RF-EF converter lens TC 1.4x and 2x I’ve got 560mm reach, which I’ve used for some outdoor sports events.. my sons HS snow ski team. You can’t even use TC’s on the RF 70-200 f 2.8.

In reference to some RF lenses like the RF 100-500mm, when the TC is mounted on the R5/R6, one cannot retract the lens below 300mm (just from 500mm down to 300mm). In this case it is best to remove the TC from the lens when transporting it.

 

[Fishrrman]

I spend a little time each evening over at dpreview.com.

Just from observation, I've noticed that the forums for Canon DSLR's -- at least the forum for the Rebel line and the forum for the xxD line -- are "all but dead". Very few posts made any more.

On the other hand, the forum for the "R" line is booming -- many posts.

If those forums reflect how Canon's sales are doing (at least in places like the USA, Canada, Europe) -- it's obvious as to what's selling, and what is not.

 

[SalisburySam]

Back to the “if it ain’t broke…” concept, still have my Nikon FTn, purchased new in Tokyo in 1967 with a slew of lenses. I’ve had it cleaned once as a bit of factory refurb, but other than that still does what I need it to do. Most helpful for the more-unusual 21mm fisheye and 1000mm extreme telephoto lenses in uses that render the iPhone less so.

 

[mtbdudex]

All depends on the type of cruise you plan to take such as land or water. For example a zoom lens from 100-500m to photograph sea life (whales, seals, walrus, and even birds) would be more useful than your iPhone. But the iPhone is perfect for family and friends, selfies, group shots, and the mundane shots around museums, streets, and so on. Just keep in mind that when taking pictures by the water it is a good idea to have the camera strap around your neck.

I only have one RF lens, the RF 100-500mm. I purchased it because all I had were EF L primes up to 400mm and needed the extra reach, plus lens lightness. This lens works well for closeups perhaps from 3-4 feet from the subject, even focused at 500mm. But if you have an EF-L zoom lens from 100 up to 400mm, it could be quite handy for large-size wildlife.

Thx for feedback, I’m listening to your advice, talked with wife, definitely taking my R5 and at least the EF 70-200 f2.8 L with TC’s for reach. Got the camera backpack for it, yep always wear strap.
On fencepost for walkabout’s with bringing the RF 24-105L vs all family has iPhone 12’s or 14’s. They can do the social / family shots, dad will be the far reach dude.
Here’s the places we will go to.
Of course shore excursions with our 21/19/17 year olds , mid June.

 

[citysnaps]

An iPhone camera meets my modest needs.

 

[mollyc]

Well Pentax (who has also indicated a desire to start making new film cameras) has announced a new monochrome dSLR.... will be a lot less expensive than the monochrome Leicas if you are really into shooting BW.

So I guess dSLR isn't quite dead yet.

PENTAX K-3 Mark III Monochrome - Ricoh

us.ricoh-imaging.com

 

[r.harris1]

Yeah, that's an interesting move on their part. They see (or think they see) a market and will be interesting to follow the goings-on with that body.

 

[bunnspecial]

I'd love to have a true monochrome camera.

Early reports I've read are that the K-3 Mono has had such strong pre-orders that Ricoh/Pentax has stopped accepting new ones.

Given that I'd have to make a big glass investment to use one of their cameras, I'm pretty seriously now eying a Kodak 420m, or really thinking that if I want one I should hold out for a 760m(which is APS-H format, plus I already have its color counterpart so am familiar with them). Unfortunately, Kodak DSLRs still bring high enough prices relative to their age and what the specs/resolution would otherwise indicate, and the monochrome versions easily sell for 1.5x what the more common color counterpart does.

 

[MAcNIAC]

I'm looking forward to going mirrorless, but I'm waiting for Nikon to offer higher resolution in their mid range mirrorless cameras. Till then, I'll stick with my Nikon dslr.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Thx for feedback, I’m listening to your advice, talked with wife, definitely taking my R5 and at least the EF 70-200 f2.8 L with TC’s for reach. Got the camera backpack for it, yep always wear strap.
On fencepost for walkabout’s with bringing the RF 24-105L vs all family has iPhone 12’s or 14’s. They can do the social / family shots, dad will be the far reach dude.
Here’s the places we will go to.
Of course shore excursions with our 21/19/17 year olds , mid June.

Very good! The gear you are taking will be fine.