Other When will you stop? Are you okay paying 2000€ for a phone?

[RRC]

But why are these phones not getting cheaper as technology evolves and is cheaper to manufacture? I mean, does the 14 Pro have ANYTHING that justifies its price getting higher?

AOD? No. Dynamic island? No. 48Mpx camera? No. Satellite calling? Maybe only this one.

Everything else is the same as 3/5 years ago.

That simply isn’t correct…

Hardly anything is the same internally and externally from even 3 years ago let alone 5.

R&D costs money, marketing costs money as well. There have been major chip shortages, that in turn have increased the costs for a lot of electrical components, amongst other prices rising.

 

[Sensamic]

You're getting angry/defensive responses because your original question wasn't completely objective. Rather than simply asking the question, "what is your upper limit", which would have been an interesting topic to get a sense of the demand curve for the iPhone, you started injecting your thoughts about what price YOU think is too much for an iPhone and about how people who keep buying these phones "Must be rich people". So of course people will get defensive, as everyone's circumstances is different.

I don’t care if people get defensive. This is an interesting topic, because we are talking about money and a big investment when we are going through an economic crisis and we have companies like Apple charging more and more without really offering nothing that is a breakthrough.

People can responde as they seem fit, just like I can ask the way I see fit. All is OK.

 

[AlexMac89]

35%?? The population of Europe is 746.5M and the United States is 329.5M, so it’s more than double. I realise that includes children and people who are not Apple customers but I said ‘potential market’.

You say about disposable incomes but our phone networks are much cheaper than in the US and iPhones are in the hands of the rich all the way down to the poor. iPhones are not exclusively appealing to people with high disposable income as financing is perhaps a lot more liberal here.

You are correct on population. So many mixes of EU vs Europe stats, and some are only offered for one or other other. That was my mistake, and posted an edit above to make that incorrect information known. Regardless, with the exception of the United Kingdom, nearly all of the profitable markets in Europe are in the EU. And even with the rest of Europe included, GDP and discretionary income is still not even close.

Your phone networks may be cheaper, but ours is also a network (each individual “big 3”) that covers an area of land essentially equal to the entirety of Europe in our price. Many plans these days also include free roaming to over 100+ around the world.

Europe may be important as a whole, but very few of them are large, important, and influential on their own. And even the combined continent doesn’t have the financial statistics and demographics to overcome the United States. That’s the reality. 700+ million people and you still have a smaller combined economy, less discretionary spending, and more/multiple regulatory and government bodies spanning 44 sovereign nations.

This isn’t about any country being “better”. The facts stand that the American economy is both larger and stronger than the combined economies of Europe and the European Union. Even with twice the population, I have seen few to no projections over the next many decades that show Europe and/or the EU ever catching up.

All this to say that the pricing doesn’t really come as a surprise. Weakened economy in a non primary market leads to price increases. Everyone here is “so sure” apple is making a huge mistake they are going to feel. Where have we heard that before? When apple sets new records consistently for sales performance, I would be more likely to believe they have better insights into the market then you and the rest of the armchair financial analysts on here. Apple isn’t stupid. They know what they are doing.

 

[Sensamic]

Honestly how is that your problem. Nobody is forced to buy.

Where did I say it was a problem for me? Stop assuming things.

 

[clevins]

It strikes me seeing people accepting buying a phone (Apple or any other company) for more than 1000€. Now with the new models a Pro 128GB is 1500€, which is absolutely insane. Maybe in 4 years the Pro Max base 256GB will be 2000€, yet still (some) people will buy it.
...

This isn't a problem for US customers who were OK with the pricing from the last couple of years, since for us, the price didn't increase. I get that it did for many/most of you outside the US but that's a currency exchange issue.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

You are correct on population. So many mixes of EU vs Europe stats, and some are only offered for one or other other. That was my mistake, and posted an edit above to make that incorrect information known. Regardless, with the exception of the United Kingdom, nearly all of the profitable markets in Europe are in the EU. And even with the rest of Europe included, GDP and discretionary income is still not even close.

Your phone networks may be cheaper, but ours is also a network (each individual “big 3”) that covers an area of land essentially equal to the entirety of Europe in our price. Many plans these days also include free roaming to over 100+ around the world.

Europe may be important as a whole, but very few of them are large, important, and influential on their own. And even the combined continent doesn’t have the financial statistics and demographics to overcome the United States. That’s the reality. 700+ million people and you still have a smaller combined economy, less discretionary spending, and more/multiple regulatory and government bodies spanning 44 sovereign nations.

This isn’t about any country being “better”. The facts stand that the American economy is both larger and stronger than the combined economies of Europe and the European Union. Even with twice the population, I have seen few to no projections over the next many decades that show Europe and/or the EU ever catching up.

All this to say that the pricing doesn’t really come as a surprise. Weakened economy in a non primary market leads to price increases. Everyone here is “so sure” apple is making a huge mistake they are going to feel. Where have we heard that before? When apple sets new records consistently for sales performance, I would be more likely to believe they have better insights into the market then you and the rest of the armchair financial analysts on here. Apple isn’t stupid. They know what they are doing.

I’ve never said Apple are making a mistake or is doomed, where on earth have you got that from? I understand our absurd inflation rates are to blame and that in turn will affect spending and ultimately Apple along with thousands of other companies will feel the effects of a decline in public spending. I’ve not said they are to blame or are making a poor decision as it’s set by our governments anyway.

Also not trying to say any country is better than another or claim Europe is desperately trying to emulate the United States. Of course they are not or wish to.

 

[AlexMac89]

I’ve never said Apple are making a mistake or is doomed, where on earth have you got that from? I understand our absurd inflation rates are to blame and that in turn will affect spending and ultimately Apple along with thousands of other companies will feel the effects of a decline in public spending. I’ve not said they are to blame or are making a poor decision as it’s set by our governments anyway.

Also not trying to say any country is better than another or claim Europe is desperately trying to emulate the United States. Of course they are not or wish to.

Was more a comment on this entire thread 🙄 the entire premise that apple doesn’t know what it is doing in regards to pricing, and that they have pushed the market beyond what it will bare. Post after post about how apple is “going to lose market share, apple has priced themselves out of Europe, no innovation, just overpriced” all said with some kind of certainty. You happened to be quoted over one part, and then kept responding, lumping everything together.

As for the “not saying any country is better than another” was less about you, and more about clarifying that I don’t find my own government perfect or without criticism. But the reality is that no economy on earth is able to insulate and protect itself, or at least best absorb the impacts, to the same degree as the United States. The point was to counter your point about Europe’s market size and relative importance, to say Europe is not a market that is comparable to the United States from an “importance” perspective. The combined economic and global influence of 44 sovereign nations (and twice the population to your point) is still not as attractive as profitable as the combined single economy of the United States. Unfortunately Europe is not projected to see a change in that, and is only projected to slide further and further behind areas of the world that have just started their growth spurt.

 

[KeepCalmPeople]

When the iPhone X was released in the US in October 2017, it was $999.
The base iPhone 14 Pro is also priced at $999.
In those five years, inflation in the US has risen by a cumulative 14.5%.
The flagship iPhone has effectively been cheaper every year.

It is unfortunate that other countries are at the mercy of exchange rates, but here in the US it is a relative bargain.
I would be really surprised if there is no increase in price here for the iPhone 15 Pro.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Was more a comment on this entire thread the entire premise that apple doesn’t know what it is doing in regards to pricing, and that they have pushed the market beyond what it will bare. Post after post about how apple is “going to lose market share, apple has priced themselves out of Europe, no innovation, just overpriced” all said with some kind of certainty. You happened to be quoted over one part, and then kept responding, lumping everything together.

As for the “not saying any country is better than another” was less about you, and more about clarifying that I don’t find my own government perfect or without criticism. But the reality is that no economy on earth is able to insulate and protect itself, or at least best absorb the impacts, to the same degree as the United States. The point was to counter your point about Europe’s market size and relative importance, to say Europe is not a market that is comparable to the United States from an “importance” perspective. The combined economic and global influence of 44 sovereign nations (and twice the population to your point) is still not as attractive as profitable as the combined single economy of the United States. Unfortunately Europe is not projected to see a change in that, and is only projected to slide further and further behind areas of the world that have just started their growth spurt.

I wasn’t looking to get into all the in’s and out’s of the strengths of economies in each country. I was just pointing out that Europe has a large segment of iPhone users and is not a region Apple could just ignore. iOS hold 23.8% of the market share in Europe of the overall smartphone market. In the US it is 47% which is much higher, but Europe has a much larger smartphone market overall due to population mass. The two may be comparable overall so whether the US is a wealthy country or not, is irrelevant as wealth doesn’t relate to iPhone users anyway. It doesn’t matter what someone’s disposable income is here, owning an iPhone can be achieved.

The current prices are no surprise and people are angry generally about price hikes on most products. Inflation is ridiculous and all product lines are suffering a decline. The new iPhones will undoubtedly see a drop off in interest this year, but this won’t be apples fault, just a reflection on the current climate. Smartphones sales are down on the whole since May here and although we’ll see a spike on product releases, the longterm is likely to be different. I doubt people are worrying too much at the moment, there’s bigger issues right now than smartphone upgrades for millions of people.

 

[TeeWrecks]

1000 for all the iPhone does isn’t a issue for me, they would have To be priced at such a ridiculous price for me to stop buying. As they get better each year I tend to hold on longer before upgrading and I still manage to get great trade in or resell value

 

[Htsi]

I have paid $2100 for my 14Pro in 256 With apple care +
I am not particularly thrilled paying so much for only 256, but it is what it is.

 

[ian87w]

But why are these phones not getting cheaper as technology evolves and is cheaper to manufacture? I mean, does the 14 Pro have ANYTHING that justifies its price getting higher?

AOD? No. Dynamic island? No. 48Mpx camera? No. Satellite calling? Maybe only this one.

Everything else is the same as 3/5 years ago.

Are you sure they're not getting cheaper? Consider what you can get for $700 5 years ago and now.

In 2017, for $700, you were only getting an iphone 8 with 2GB of RAM, 64GB storage, LCD, etc. Now in 2022 for $700, you can get an iphone 13 with 5G, OLED screen, 128GB of storage.

For the same amount of money (disregarding inflation), you get more.

Who told you that you must only buy the $1000 model?

 

[goldenarm007]

$1,500US in 2022 is about $1,100US in 2007. The OG iPhone was $600 for the 8GB, IIRC.

The 2022 iPhone 14 Pro Max is ridiculously more capable than the OG iPhone. It would easily be worth $1,100 in 2007.

So to answer the OP question: There is no limit on how much I'll pay, as long as the value matches my expectations.

$1,500 for a super-computer that shoots broadcast-quality video, 5G, OLED display, 512GB of storage, etc, etc, etc, is a bargain.

As others have said: This isn't a phone. It's a super-computer that happens to also have a phone app, haha!!

It is still a phone.

 

[iphonehype]

Yes. I won’t stop buying. It motivates me to hustle harder.

 

[mpavilion]

In the iPhone 8 era (my basis for comparison), the base model was $700 (and Plus was $800). Now it’s $800 for base model (and $900 for Plus)… but $700 in 2017 dollars would be $846 today (and $800 would be $966). So I guess I can’t complain. I would never consider the Pro series, though.

 

[John981]

$1,500US in 2022 is about $1,100US in 2007. The OG iPhone was $600 for the 8GB, IIRC.

The 2022 iPhone 14 Pro Max is ridiculously more capable than the OG iPhone. It would easily be worth $1,100 in 2007.

So to answer the OP question: There is no limit on how much I'll pay, as long as the value matches my expectations.

$1,500 for a super-computer that shoots broadcast-quality video, 5G, OLED display, 512GB of storage, etc, etc, etc, is a bargain.

As others have said: This isn't a phone. It's a super-computer that happens to also have a phone app, haha!!

You‘re acting as though iPhones exist in a vacuum.

Yes, modern phones are very capable, but you can get a lot of the same functionality in a 400€ smartphone as well. And yes, of course there are quality differences between the video quality of a 400€ and a 1500€ smartphone, but especially with the likes of Googles Pixel line, cheap high quality phone cameras have become very accessible at reasonable prices.

 

[clevins]

You‘re acting as though iPhones exist in a vacuum.

Yes, modern phones are very capable, but you can get a lot of the same functionality in a 400€ smartphone as well. And yes, of course there are quality differences between the video quality of a 400€ and a 1500€ smartphone, but especially with the likes of Googles Pixel line, cheap high quality phone cameras have become very accessible at reasonable prices.

And if people wanted to do that, they would. Why do you or OP care? Your values aren't universal, they're yours.

Also, my 14 Pro isn't $1000 to me. It's $600 because I got $400 for the phone I have. Even if I upgrade two years, that's less than $1/day. And if I do upgrade every 2 years, my trade in will be more so my out of pocket cost will be less.

 

[JulianL]

It strikes me seeing people accepting buying a phone (Apple or any other company) for more than 1000€. Now with the new models a Pro 128GB is 1500€, which is absolutely insane. Maybe in 4 years the Pro Max base 256GB will be 2000€, yet still (some) people will buy it.

Doesnt matter if you pay it in 24/36 months. It is just TOO much.

I always wonder if these people who keep buying have 200.000$ per year jobs. Must be rich people, because anyone who is paying gas, electricity, food, rent or whatever surely can’t see this been right.

When will you stop?

Some people seem ok with paying 1.500€ for the 14 Pro Max. So, when will you stop?

I haven’t read all 8 pages of this thread so maybe someone has pointed this out already but it’s not a simple question. Let’s say that in a couple of years time you see two people on a train both with the latest iPhone that now costs $3,000. You might think “wow, those people must be rich”. Well, maybe one is because he/she still upgrades every year but the other might now only be able to afford to upgrade their iPhone every 5 years because of the price and you just happened to see them just after they’d done an upgrade. (I’m assuming you could somehow tell they both bought their phones outright.)

I do currently upgrade every year and do buy my phones outright although trading in my old phone means that each year I only need to allocate extra cash for about half of the full retail price. When might I personally consider switching from yearly to every other year upgrades? In terms of how much money I’m willing to spend each year I’d still buy a £2,000 phone on an annual basis (I’m in the UK hence the switch to UK pricing). At that price though it might no longer be an iPhone, I would be looking long and hard at whether other manufacturers were offering equivalent functionality for a significantly lower price. Once I hit that threshold and if I did still think that the iPhone offered me value for money I would simply drop down to upgrading every other year, and then once every 3 years, and so on.

 

[PlainBelliedSneetch]

As technology evolves, isn’t it supposed to get cheaper? Like 4K tvs, etc. So why are these phones getting more and more expensive instead?

The Euro dropped almost 20% vs USD since last year. So, it got 20% * VAT more expensive due to exchange rates.

 

[Analog Kid]

But why are these phones not getting cheaper as technology evolves and is cheaper to manufacture? I mean, does the 14 Pro have ANYTHING that justifies its price getting higher?

AOD? No. Dynamic island? No. 48Mpx camera? No. Satellite calling? Maybe only this one.

Everything else is the same as 3/5 years ago.

If everything was the same as 3-5 years ago you’d expect the price to go up, that’s what inflation does. It’s the improvement of technology that brings prices down. Adding capabilities or quality or other points of value bring prices back up.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, has gotten cheaper to manufacture over the past couple years. And yes, the 14s have new capabilities an a significant amount of R&D behind them. The fact that you don’t find that valuable is a personal judgement.

I’m with others who think you’re way to concerned with other people’s spending habits. I’ll pay what something is worth to me at the time. If I think it’s worth $2000, I’ll pay it. If I think it’s worth less than the selling price, I won’t.

 

[Isamilis]

Functionality is my first priority. As long my needs were fulfilled, I will just buy the phone. My 11 which has been 1 year. I may stay with this until few years, just like my 6s which I used for 5-6 years.
For the price, my psychological limit is less than $1000.

 

[babyexercise]

In the US yes. Here in Europe it starts at 1k. I understand you.

I think the starting prices are what is silly. There is a huge gap between the iphone SE and the iphone 14 that could be filled by offering a decent base phone to consumers.

Until that happens people will just hold on to their phones longer

Even iphone 12 is still so expensive and so closed to 14 price. I guess SE plus is not a myth.

 

[babyexercise]

Functionality is my first priority. As long my needs were fulfilled, I will just buy the phone. My 11 which has been 1 year. I may stay with this until few years, just like my 6s which I used for 5-6 years.
For the price, my psychological limit is less than $1000.

Your next phone would be SE then

 

[babyexercise]

But why are these phones not getting cheaper as technology evolves and is cheaper to manufacture? I mean, does the 14 Pro have ANYTHING that justifies its price getting higher?

AOD? No. Dynamic island? No. 48Mpx camera? No. Satellite calling? Maybe only this one.

Everything else is the same as 3/5 years ago.

Because Apple needs to get have very high profit to keep the stock price.

 

[4389842]

they will prolly go back unless they blow me away bc dang so expensive with paltry trade-in values.

funny how people are shocked by manufacturer price hikes while shamelessly admitting (not only you but many on this forum) to buy stuff, try it and ship back for a full refund… what do you think happens to these devices? Who do you think pays for the cost of shipping out the device to you, the admin of taking it back in and potentially passing on as a refurb, the cost of the lost physical packaging? Apple? … surely not… the cost of all this gets factored in to every device sold.

It would be much fairer and ecological if the person doing the ‘try and send back’ would be accountable for the fee which would cover these costs.

Why do you need to buy the watch to figure out if it is ‘worth it’. The physical device is the same and you can always visit a physical store + with the amount of media coverage you will know if the new sensors (here T) would be meaningful to you.

What you are doing is wasteful and it would be good to stop and think about that…