Which "Budget" DSLR - Nikon D60 or Canon XS?

[dmk1974]

I'm looking for a "budget DSLR for my Dad. After researching, the two I am down to are the Nikon D60 and the Canon XS. I know they aren't top of the line by any means, but for him going from a crappy (in my opinion crappy that is) Olympus P&S camera, one of these will be great.

I'm looking at getting them as refurbs, probably from Adorama since I had a good experience previously getting a refurbed XSi from them. Each would be bought with the starter 18-55 mm VR/IS lens.

Nikon D60 - $459.90
http://www.adorama.com/INKD60R.html?searchinfo=nikon+refurbished
http://www.adorama.com/NK1855VRR.html

Canon XS - $469.95
http://www.adorama.com/ICADRXSKBR.html?searchinfo=canon+xs+refurbished

Or if there is a better suggestion out there with a similar budget, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[gkarris]

Go for the "crappy" Olympus dSLR...

LOL...

 

[dmk1974]

Go for the "crappy" Olympus dSLR...

LOL...

Ha ha ha...I'm not saying Olympus is crappy, just his digital P&S camera. I swear I've seen nothing but poor quality photos out of that thing, even when I tested a couple.

For DSLR especially, from what I have read and see photo samples of, Canon and Nikon are the kings.

 

[gkarris]

Ha ha ha...I'm not saying Olympus is crappy, just his digital P&S camera. I swear I've seen nothing but poor quality photos out of that thing, even when I tested a couple.

For DSLR especially, from what I have read and see photo samples of, Canon and Nikon are the kings.

all in fun...

btw - see my sig...

 

[iShater]

If you are on a budget, get a D40 or the equivalent Canon to get started with. Any money saved can go towards better lenses, filters, etc.

That's what I did.

 

[TheReef]

For DSLR especially, from what I have read and see photo samples of, Canon and Nikon are the kings.

Sure, those brands offer very expensive high end models which I am sure are very good…

But for entry level you can't beat the value the Pentax K200D. It's photos are just as good and has better features for the price.

P.s do a search, this topic comes up every few days

 

[TheStrudel]

My thoughts (Assuming you're not already invested in lenses):

Olympus is to be avoided, not because their hardware is bad, but because they unwisely opted for the Four Thirds system, and I think it's better to use the more standard (photographically) 3:2 ratio found in the competitors. Pentax usually represents excellent value for money and has in-body optical image stabilization, which is nice for shooting on a budget. But Canon and Nikon have the advantage of many, many lenses on the market and therefore a large selection of used lenses bought extremely cost-effectively.

How to choose between them? Try them out at a camera shop. I advise you to make the choice on which you like better personally, ergonomically, or by image quality as you determine in person.

 

[dmk1974]

Wow, so far the Canon is trouncing the Nikon.

For those who vote "other", which make/model is your recommendation?

 

[NEiMac]

I didn't vote cause I say go with the D40, its a very good camera and cheaper then the D60. But really you should go handle them and see which one you prefer, both have a great lens lineup so I wouldn't worry much there.

 

[iShater]

I didn't vote cause I say go with the D40, its a very good camera and cheaper then the D60. But really you should go handle them and see which one you prefer, both have a great lens lineup so I wouldn't worry much there.

That is what I did. After trying them at Wolf camera, the feel of the D40/60 was more comfortable for me.

 

[iTiki]

D40 :d

 

[dmk1974]

I've seen some support here for the D40. Why though? It's only 6MP instead of 10. And doesn't it have a few other slight shortcomings compared to the D60? D40 is cheaper though which is a definite plus.

 

[iTiki]

I've seen some support here for the D40. Why though? It's only 6MP instead of 10. And doesn't it have a few other slight shortcomings compared to the D60? D40 is cheaper though which is a definite plus.

Check out Ken Rockwell's site http://www.kenrockwell.com. Some people hate the guy, some love him. Makes for an interesting read either way. I started with a D40 based on his recommendation and it worked out very well for me. Others on here will tell you he is full of B.S. I would suggest you read several of his articles and make up your own mind. He likes both Canon and Nikon, so I don't feel he is completely biased. He does have an article on MP, too.

 

[Elbert C]

Good suggestion

Sure, those brands offer very expensive high end models which I am sure are very good…

But for entry level you can't beat the value the Pentax K200D. It's photos are just as good and has better features for the price.

P.s do a search, this topic comes up every few days

+1

 

[iShater]

I've seen some support here for the D40. Why though? It's only 6MP instead of 10. And doesn't it have a few other slight shortcomings compared to the D60? D40 is cheaper though which is a definite plus.

The MPs at that level don't matter as much, it depends what printing media and what type of cropping you want to do. Some sites even prefer the D40 over the D60 for the ISO sensitivity, flash sync, and some other stuff.

For me it was bang for the buck. I got the stock 18-55mm lens, and I plan to use the $200 I saved on the D60 to get a decent 70-300mm lens.

The changes between these cameras are evolutionary, not revolutionary. The differences are not that big.

 

[paintball312]

Here's why I'd pick an XS over a D60

-XS has 7 focus points w/ a center cross type over the D60's 3
-D60 has no focus motor, you lose out of AF with many great lenses
-XS has a true curtain shutter, and less shutter lag
-D60 lacks AEB and bhite balance bracketing
-XS has live view
-XS has better high ISO performance (debatable I suppose, but the D60 does seem to have better low ISO's which is odd)

That's just my opinion though. I'm sure you'd be happy with whichever you get. I feel canon has more to offer in the glass category, especially against the D40/x and D60 though, and that's why I test most to recommend entry level canons over entry level nikons.

 

[dmk1974]

Here's why I'd pick an XS over a D60

-XS has 7 focus points w/ a center cross type over the D60's 3
-D60 has no focus motor, you lose out of AF with many great lenses
-XS has a true curtain shutter, and less shutter lag
-D60 lacks AEB and bhite balance bracketing
-XS has live view
-XS has better high ISO performance (debatable I suppose, but the D60 does seem to have better low ISO's which is odd)

That's just my opinion though. I'm sure you'd be happy with whichever you get. I feel canon has more to offer in the glass category, especially against the D40/x and D60 though, and that's why I test most to recommend entry level canons over entry level nikons.

- The number of AF pts does seems significant. But in practicality, does it really matter that much?
- Since this would be a starter kit, does it really matter about the lenses being limited to AF-S on the Nikon?
- Live view I had on my own XSi and I didn't like it at all.

 

[iShater]

- The number of AF pts does seems significant. But in practicality, does it really matter that much?
- Since this would be a starter kit, does it really matter about the lenses being limited to AF-S on the Nikon?
- Live view I had on my own XSi and I didn't like it at all.

Your first point is what I would look at too. The other two didn't persuade me to go with the Canon, not because I didn't like the tech of the Canons, but because of the feel in my hand. Try both at a store and see which one is comfortable for you to use.

 

[paintball312]

To some, the AF points may matter. To me, it's not really the number of points, the fact that the center point, which I'm sure would be most used, is cross-type for lenses F/5.6 and faster.

To me, the having to stick with AF-I/S lenses is a big deal. Off the top of my head, some great lenses you lose AF with include:
Nikon 50mm f/1.8
Nikon 85mm f/1.8
Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8 fisheye
Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8
Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8

Live view is a preference thing. I know myself, I never use it, some like it and it can come in handy for fine tuning focus when shooting landscapes.

 

[Mr. G4]

My thoughts (Assuming you're not already invested in lenses):

Olympus is to be avoided, not because their hardware is bad, but because they unwisely opted for the Four Thirds system, and I think it's better to use the more standard (photographically) 3:2 ratio found in the competitors. Pentax usually represents excellent value for money and has in-body optical image stabilization, which is nice for shooting on a budget. But Canon and Nikon have the advantage of many, many lenses on the market and therefore a large selection of used lenses bought extremely cost-effectively.

How to choose between them? Try them out at a camera shop. I advise you to make the choice on which you like better personally, ergonomically, or by image quality as you determine in person.

I wondered when people make such a statement if they even see, shoot with an Olympus DSLR camera or even saw a picture made by those camera.

While you gave credit to Pentax for having in-body image stabilizer, you forgot to do the same for Olympus.

Here is a link to an excellent E-510 with one lens for $449.

The advantage of the 4/3rd system is its standardize format, which mean you can take any body and put any lens of the standard you want. In another hand if you buy an entry level Nikon or Canon and later decided to move to a pro-level body. While the 4/3rd system might not have the quantity of lens as for the two big names, it has excellent quality lens that cover the range from 14mm to 1000mm (in term of 35mm equivalent) and it doesn't cost more in term of quality wise.

However I do agree that the most important part in choosing a camera is to pick one up and wee how it feels in your hand because nowadays any DSLR is capable of producing great pictures.

 

[compuwar]

The advantage of the 4/3rd system is its standardize format, which mean you can take any body and put any lens of the standard you want.

Um no, now there's 4/3rds and micro 4/3rds, and while 4/3rds lenses will adapt, the opposite isn't true. There's also pretty-much no used lens market and the lens range is limited in terms of magnification (though not horrible in terms of AOV.)

In another hand if you buy an entry level Nikon or Canon and later decided to move to a pro-level body.

My Pro-level D2x happily accepts pretty-much all F-mount lenses made in the last ~50 years, so I' not sure what you *think* you're trying to make point-wise- but I'm considering a D3x, and it'll take all my lenses still- and every one of those lenses fits the entry-level bodies as well. Please supply a list of lenses for the D60 that won't work on the D3x.

 

[Mr. G4]

Um no, now there's 4/3rds and micro 4/3rds, and while 4/3rds lenses will adapt, the opposite isn't true. There's also pretty-much no used lens market and the lens range is limited in terms of magnification (though not horrible in terms of AOV.)

True that the lens is not backward compatible, hence, the different name in standard. If you look at any craigslist you will find plenty of kit lens and once people upgrade to a better lens they don't want to part from them, simple as that. However, you still can go to 4/3rd forum and there are buy and sell section.

My Pro-level D2x happily accepts pretty-much all F-mount lenses made in the last ~50 years, so I' not sure what you *think* you're trying to make point-wise- but I'm considering a D3x, and it'll take all my lenses still- and every one of those lenses fits the entry-level bodies as well. Please supply a list of lenses for the D60 that won't work on the D3x.

It might work but will it auto focus? That's is what I meant when I said it wont work. Do you mean that a full frame camera can use a smaller size sensor lens?

 

[TheStrudel]

Actually, in the case of Nikon, both of the answers to that question are "yes". Only the very low end cameras won't autofocus older AF lenses, and their full-frame cameras can operate the DX designated, APS-C crop lenses (albeit at a lower megapixel rating). The four-thirds system is a much younger system than all of the other systems used for DSLRs, and is therefore relatively immature. It's much less standard than systems employed by the other manufacturers. I did omit that it has in-body image stabilization, but in my opinion it's a moot point since Olympus advantages are negated by the disabilities that its competitors simply don't have.

It's true that any of the DSLRs from the major manufacturers will produce better image. But conventional wisdom and the thoughts of critics and photographers would argue that one is better served by a selection from Canon, Nikon, or Pentax instead of the options offered by Olympus, Sony, Sigma and the other manufacturers. There is more room to grow, a healthier accessory ecosystem, and a much larger lens selection.

 

[compuwar]

True that the lens is not backward compatible, hence, the different name in standard. If you look at any craigslist you will

Yes, but the important question there is can the 4/3rds ecosystem support *two* lens standards at this point in its evolution, or is one side going to get screwed? Personally, I think it can't, and since Oly is going all in on u4/3rds, standard 4/3rds users are likely to get screwed longer-term.

find plenty of kit lens and once people upgrade to a better lens they don't want to part from them, simple as that. However, you still can go to 4/3rd forum and there are buy and sell section.

I hardly think most folks looking for lens bargains are searching for kit lenses- that means you're pretty-much relegated to purchasing new lenses
- negating the disadvantage of the low-end Nikon bodies since at that point it's an apples-to-apples issue. If you're going to purchase new lenses anyway, you may as well go with a system that has options for full-frame in the future and lower noise.

It might work but will it auto focus? That's is what I meant when I said it wont work. Do you mean that a full frame camera can use a smaller size sensor lens?

Then you're simply wrong. Everything other than the lowest-end bodies can AF with any AF lens, so if you start at the low end digital, you're *always* going to have forwards-compatible AF if you trade up to a prosumer or pro body. There are about six current AF-D lenses that don't have equivalent options for AF on the lowest-end bodies, and about half of those are fisyeyes, in fact, I'd bet there are more lenses that will AF on the D60 than there are 4/3rds lenses period.

Nikon has been very good about putting DX crop modes into its FF cameras as well. The D3x offers just over 10MP of DX crop mode, so if you're invested in DX (APS-C) lenses, then you basically get a D90 image from the full-frame body if you use a DX lens.

Perhaps you should ask yourself the equivalent of

I wondered when people make such a statement if they even see, shoot with an Olympus DSLR camera

about Nikon cameras?

 

[gkarris]

At the Olympus haters - LOL....

Olympus is making big strides as far as the 4/3 sensor. I can tell the difference between my 500 and my newer 420 - much less noise and higher quality pics.

Yes, everyone's sensor is getting better and 4/3 will never catch up to the larger sensors, but why Olympus gets such a bad rap, I don't know. I've taken some awesome pics my Olympus cams.

Gonna take the 420 shooting this weekend and on purpose use higher ISO - to get an "older film" look. What better way to take a pic of the inside of a U-boat than with that and a Zeiss Lens...