Which "Budget" DSLR - Nikon D60 or Canon XS?

[tbrinkma]

I think the important thing to note with the 4/3 vs. micro-4/3 commentary running here is that the two standards are designed to fit different spaces.

The 4/3 system is designed for the traditional dSLR camera space. The micro-4/3 system is designed to allow lens-swapping in the high-end P&S space (and hopefully eventually across the entire P&S space if it takes off). The fact that you can use an adapter to put a 4/3 lens on a micro-4/3 body means you can actually use top-end lenses on your incredibly light-weight body if you should choose to do so.

Olympus, due to the smaller sensor size of 4/3 (which they understood going in) has already started focusing on increasing sensor *sensitivity* to improve image quality, while most other manufacturers are instead still focusing on more mega-pixels, which often has the side effect of resulting in a worse picture due to increased noise.

 

[gkarris]

Where did you rent it from? (Chicagoland right?)

Calumet. It's cool - a weekend (3pm Fri. - Noon Mon.) is considered 1 day...

I hate to agree with KR, but:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/nikortek.htm#ed

(FWIW, the 80-400 is "good," but not "outstanding" in terms of IQ- I own one, and it's the first lens I'd ditch if I had to ditch a lens, especially at the long end.)

Lot's of walking around getting pics over that weekend. It's smaller than the 2.8L IS Canon 70-200...

So wait, are you saying the the $100 lens is better than the $130 lens? See links below.

http://www.adorama.com/NK1855DX2R.html?searchinfo=nikon+18+55+refurbished
http://www.adorama.com/NK1855VRR.html?searchinfo=nikon+refurbished+lens

The VR version of that lens is better.

See slrgear.com for the advantages/disadvantages of one over the other. Best thing to do is take them out shooting and see which one you like better. But, in general go for the VR. Best is ED VR.

 

[romanaz]

I stand corrected then. I retract my comment on that Olympus.

I'm not saying Olympus is not a quality system, I've seen some damned good pictures come from it. But, for what I see myself needing, which is a fast, good low-light camera for indoor sports with plenty of room to upgrade and go to in the future with lens's that meet my needs, aka the 50 f/1.4 or 1.2, the 85 f/1.8 or f/1.2, the 100 f/2 etc... as well as a bigger sensor down the line such as the 1D mk III has.

Those are my needs. Are they the needs that everyone has? No. But I'm more then willing to pay more for a system that will allow me to expand into a money making business (I hope) farther down the line.

To me, for the sake of this thread, I would say the XS. To me, it feels better in hand, has easier access to the controls, like the ISO button, and it can autofocus any canon lens that mounts to it. I'd rather have the knowledge that any Canon branded lens I buy, will autofocus on my camera, rather then have to be careful that I buy an AF-S lens for the nikon. That, and nikons lens naming system is mad annoying to me, sometimes DX is in one place, sometimes its in another. Same with VR. Consistency would be nice.

There is no such lens in the 4/3rd standard. Beside the E-4xx are one of the old model that do not have IS because Olympus went with a small size body versus the bigger body of the E-5xx with IS. As for my analogy, it always surprised me to see Macusers putting down innovative company such as Olympus and use quantity-ecosystem over quality of Zuiko lens or follows what critics said. That's all, but it doesn't surprise me that you don't see the point.



Sorry for that. However, the range I gave was taken in account of the magnification. Olympus and Panasonic have only to built new set of lens for µ4/3rd.



You are probably right, I am a simplistic guy, I don't want to think about which lens has a motor built in to go with which camera that doesn't have in body motor built in or vice versa. As for noise, yes 4/3rd sensor produce more noise in higher ISO than 800 for some model and 1600 for other, but like you said not everybody have a need to shoot all the time in 3200 and up. As for DoF, you will be surprised what 4/3rd camera can do. Playing in the store with camera doesn't count

By the way according to the latest test of Canon 500D on DPReview they are catching up with Olympus in term of "noisy" picture

As the OP requested I won't go OT anymore.

Here is one of my picture taken yesterday at the keynote...too many heads in front of me

 

[Azrel]

Does anyone have a wallpaper of the above "Snow Leopard".... I've searched everywhere and cannot find one. I would love that leopard on my desktop.

 

[dmk1974]

I do have to say, Adorama does ship pretty fast. Ordered at noon Wednesday...scheduled for delivery Friday (NJ to Chicago via UPS ground).

I also did elect to go with the gold pimp version of the D60

 

[iShater]

^^ nice dude!

Make sure to hit the botanic garden and spend a day practicing some out door shooting.

I want to do that this weekend!

 

[Deathishere]

Nice dmk I just bought a refurb D60 from cametacameras on ebay and then bought the 18-55mm DX VR lens from adorama. Total was like $410

 

[dmk1974]

Nice dmk I just bought a refurb D60 from cametacameras on ebay and then bought the 18-55mm DX VR lens from adorama. Total was like $410

Sweet deal! I was also tracking all of the Cameta auctions on ebay for the D60, but the past few days, it looked like a lot of them were really running up in price (maybe due to this thread?

Let me know how yours is when you get it. I preferred that 1-year warranty from Cameta, but I wanted to hopefully get it before the weekend (looks like I will!).

 

[Deathishere]

Haha yeah a few with the VR lens included were going pretty high, but I guess I just got pretty lucky

 

[gkarris]

Sweet deal! I was also tracking all of the Cameta auctions on ebay for the D60, but the past few days, it looked like a lot of them were really running up in price (maybe due to this thread?

Let me know how yours is when you get it. I preferred that 1-year warranty from Cameta, but I wanted to hopefully get it before the weekend (looks like I will!).

Quicker if you get it through Cameta's Store on Amazon rather than trying to use auctions on eBay...

 

[dmk1974]

Man, this refurb I got from Adorama sure isn't as clean looking as the refurb Canon I had gotten from them in March. The body looks pretty good, but some small scratches on the LCD screen (no peel-away plastic covering or anything). The lens seems ok, but some wear, scuffs, and dirt particles.

All that matters is how it works, right? Well, I took a number of shots and it looks like I have a dead pixel on the sensor! Every photo has it in the same spot. I don't see anything on the lens and I don't think it's a dust particle since it's very uniform when I zoom in every time (looks kinda like a white plus).

Is there maybe an easy fix for this or do I just have to go through the hassle of returning it?

 

[dmk1974]

Nice dmk I just bought a refurb D60 from cametacameras on ebay and then bought the 18-55mm DX VR lens from adorama. Total was like $410

Also, let me know what kind of shape it is in from Cameta. Maybe I should order from them?

 

[Deathishere]

Man, this refurb I got from Adorama sure isn't as clean looking as the refurb Canon I had gotten from them in March. The body looks pretty good, but some small scratches on the LCD screen (no peel-away plastic covering or anything). The lens seems ok, but some wear, scuffs, and dirt particles.

All that matters is how it works, right? Well, I took a number of shots and it looks like I have a dead pixel on the sensor! Every photo has it in the same spot. I don't see anything on the lens and I don't think it's a dust particle since it's very uniform when I zoom in every time (looks kinda like a white plus).

Is there maybe an easy fix for this or do I just have to go through the hassle of returning it?

I would take it back if it has that many problems with it. Especially the dead pixel. Sucks you got a bad one Yeah they haven't sent me an email saying it was shipped yet, but I guess it has only been a day..Hopefully mine wont be like yours was and hope your next one wont be like that.

 

[TheSVD]

well, ill tell you how i chose between those 2 very cameras. The nikon has a CCD sensor and the canon has a CMOS sensor - in my opinion, the CMOS sensor is better.
The second reason being that i find that good lenses for canon cameras are cheaper.
The only reason i would like the nikon is because you can use older lenses with it, unlike the canon, in which you need newer lenses. Otherwise, id get the rebel XS ive played with teh two of them and found the canon is just alot nicer.
My 2 cents

 

[compuwar]

well, ill tell you how i chose between those 2 very cameras. The nikon has a CCD sensor and the canon has a CMOS sensor - in my opinion, the CMOS sensor is better.

Which only says you're not that well-informed about sensors. Manufacturers use CMOS because it's cheaper, and that's the main driver because the sensor is the single-most expensive component in the system.

 

[gkarris]

Man, this refurb I got from Adorama sure isn't as clean looking as the refurb Canon I had gotten from them in March. The body looks pretty good, but some small scratches on the LCD screen (no peel-away plastic covering or anything). The lens seems ok, but some wear, scuffs, and dirt particles.

All that matters is how it works, right? Well, I took a number of shots and it looks like I have a dead pixel on the sensor! Every photo has it in the same spot. I don't see anything on the lens and I don't think it's a dust particle since it's very uniform when I zoom in every time (looks kinda like a white plus).

Is there maybe an easy fix for this or do I just have to go through the hassle of returning it?

Was it a Manufacturer's refurb or an open box refurb from Adorama?

 

[dmk1974]

Was it a Manufacturer's refurb or an open box refurb from Adorama?

Their listings for both the lens and camera said they were each "Refurbished by Nikon U.S.A.".

 

[LERsince1991]

I chose to go for the Canon over Nikon but that major thing for me was the len's. Haven't bought it yet though.

 

[gkarris]

Their listings for both the lens and camera said they were each "Refurbished by Nikon U.S.A.".

I highly doubt it was by Nikon USA and in that condition...

It's probably:

"Refurbished, by Nikon USA" meaning it's been refurbished, and the camera is by Nikon USA (not the refurbishment)...

Return that puppy, and go to Cameta.

Thanks for the heads-up. I was going to make a purchase from Adorama, but will not now. Will stick to Cameta (where I got my E-420, new).

 

[dmk1974]

I highly doubt it was by Nikon USA and in that condition...

It's probably:

"Refurbished, by Nikon USA" meaning it's been refurbished, and the camera is by Nikon USA (not the refurbishment)...

Return that puppy, and go to Cameta.

Thanks for the heads-up. I was going to make a purchase from Adorama, but will not now. Will stick to Cameta (where I got my E-420, new).

The gray Nikon box it came in did not have any kind of tamper-evident sticker on it or anything. When I had gotten my refurbed Canon a few months back from Adorama, it did. Could be just a difference in how Canon and Nikon clean up and package their refurbs? Has anyone else out there received/purchased a Nikon refurb and can share how it came? Better yet, a Nikon refurb from Cameta?

I know it's kinda weird, but I really did like that gold version of the D60. I guess I can live with a silver one as long as it's in good shape and works!

 

[dmk1974]

Here's one of the photos I took with the Gold D60 that I will be sending back. If you zoom in, you will see the dead/stuck pixel showing up as a white "plus" (as I have in every single photo with this camera) above the g and to the left of the dot over the second i in the large word "Digital" at the top of the book.

https://home.comcast.net/~dmk1974/images/DSC_0012.JPG

 

[dmk1974]

Here's one of the photos I took with the Gold D60 that I will be sending back. If you zoom in, you will see the dead/stuck pixel showing up as a white "plus" (as I have in every single photo with this camera) above the g and to the left of the dot over the second i in the large word "Digital" at the top of the book.

https://home.comcast.net/~dmk1974/images/DSC_0012.JPG

Here's a zoom of that section from the linked photo. This is unacceptable, correct? It shows in EVERY photo.

 

[dmk1974]

Woohoo! I received the D60 and 18-105 VR lens that I ordered from Cameta Camera this time. Looks perfect and after a just a few test shots, no issues at all that I can see! It really looks like brand new! AND the best part, they sent me the gold "pimp" version as well (which I had ordered previously from Adorama, but thought I would be receiving the standard silver version this time). Pretty happy with my first order ever from Cameta Camera!

 

[gkarris]

^^^ congrats, l had no problems with Cameta (E-420 new). Lightning fast ship and item as exactly described (new with US warranty) - best price around for a US model.

 

[sahasid]

Hi,

Reviving this thread coz i'm going thru the same dilemma as the originator of this thread, i.e. i'm also trying to decide between Canon EOS 1000D (Rebel XS) and Nikon D60.

I've been thru all the spec comparison, review, debates based on specs. Finally, i decided to check out pictures taken by both the cameras on flickr and that's where my question comes in..

I've scanned scores of photographs taken by different people with both the cameras and to my untrained eye, as compared to the D60, the the colors in the pics taken with the XS seem just a little bit less lively and with a mild bluish hue (mind it - i'm not talking on a very very marginal scale here... and its not based on 1 or 2 photographs, i've scanned hundreds at full resolution).

I just wanted to know whether nybody else has had the same feeling. Can this be attributed in anyway to the camera? Is it that the CCD sensor of the Nikon does better color reproduction than its CMOS counterpart of Canon at the lower ISO ranges (<400 - which is the range i would typically restrict myself to).

Appreciate ur views..