Right. So what's wrong with using arrow keys on an external keyboard to select cells in Excel? That's how I usually do it on a desktop too, btw.
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Which features would make the iPad Pro your main working device? Here are mine
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Right. So what's wrong with using arrow keys on an external keyboard to select cells in Excel? That's how I usually do it on a desktop too, btw.
I actually started using spreadsheets before computers generally had mice (Lotus 1-2-3), so I see your point. Still, once you get used to it, there is a certain convenience with selecting cells on an iPad Pro. The screen is just large enough to make it comfortable.
I don´t know maybe it´s just me then. I really don´t know why but I work faster with a trackpad in excel
Maybe <i have to get used to some keyboard shortcuts I don´t know
You have to push on the bottom of the pdf tab (do not open the pdf) and you will see a "grey iCloud". Open iCloud and move the pdf to what ever file you want to by opening the iCloud file and click on "export to this location" at the bottom of the screen.
Yeah. Not that I mean to tell other people how to do things, as I know how hard it can be to break ingrained habits. I have twenty years of Windows habits I'm probably never going to break even though I'm trying to switch to OS X. But what I've found when I used my iPP with a Bluetooth keyboard is that I could do most things with keyboard shortcuts, and I hardly ever had to tap the screen. So perhaps those of you who want mouse/trackpad in iOS could take the time to try and think if there's a keyboard shortcut for what you want to do? I'm not trying to say it's wrong that you want a mouse, but right now iOS doesn't have mouse support, so maybe keyboard shortcuts could make your life easier in the meanwhile.
I can see how using a trackpad might be faster but arguably it is easier to use touch.
If a small touch target is an issue perhaps using Apple pencil will alleviate the problem?
That is true.
Not always (I AM taking into account that you said a "wide range of tasks" not all). Besides, what is "natural" is subjective. Selecting text is something that is better accomplished with a mouse. One's finger obscures the text being selected. Apple's solution to that is pretty innovative but it is required because of touch. To select and copy text using touch requires positioning your finger close to the start of the desired text, examine the magnifying glass to ensure the cursor is located properly, release your finger, then drag the handles to encompass the text, then select "copy". With a mouse, position the cursor, click and drag, right-click "copy".
The point is there are some interactions that are better suited for touch, others for mouse. Some believe it must be all of one or the other. The rest of us prefer to have the flexibility of choosing based on the task at hand.
I don't "need" a mouse for Excel, but from what I've seen/heard from others...
For some it is simply familiarity. They're comfortable and efficient using a mouse. People work differently. For some they'd be better off with a touch interface, for others, a mouse. They like everything else that tablets have to offer but would find a mouse at times to enhance their usability. The response is typically to call them "luddites" and "set in their ways" as if touch is universally superior for everyone in all situations.
For some it is usability. It could depend upon how they interact with spreadsheets. If much of their work includes selecting blocks of cells and copying/pasting them, then a mouse may work better for them. (see above)
Some people forget that for some, an iPad is a tool to assist them in getting things done. Yes, it can show them a different way to do things that might be beneficial for them, but it must also accommodate the way that they approach a task as well.
The addition of support an optional mouse/trackpad to iOS will not impede the use of iOS by those who don't want/need to use one.
For myself, I agree that text selection is much easier with a mouse than with a finger (or even a trackpad in my own case). It's been the one thing I've struggled most with on a tablet of any size (or smartphone for that matter). I can use a mouse with my Asus TF700T and it works quite well.
And to me, dragging with a mouse while selecting isn't reliable, because I tend to let go of the button while dragging. Then I find I have to start all over again by moving the cursor back to the insertion point. On iOS, the text selector is dragable both ways, meaning I don't have to start at the beginning (or end) of the text block. I can start in the middle, then drag one end, then the other, until I have selected the text I want.
Not saying your way is wrong or mine is right, just trying to give an example of how different people do things differently. And I do get what you are saying about more options being a good thing, but then sometimes too many options confuse people. Or maybe I just feel that way because I'm currently satisfied with the options iOS provides (touch selection + keyboard arrows on external keyboard)? Hard to say.
Agreed. What an easy but high value solution. I am always surprised that Apple doesn't think of these common sense solutions to begin with.
Desparately manufactured example--you have problems drag selecting with a mouse?
Yes, I do. Why is that so hard to believe?
I can never keep my finger pressed on the button while dragging the mouse. I usually use a trackball instead, as that lets me push down the button with a finger of one hand while rolling the ball with the fingers of my other hand. But for me, the most convenient method for selecting text is using shift+arrow keys on a keyboard.
Everybody is different, and I probably have weaker muscles than average, but I'm not the only person I know who have problems manipulating the mouse.
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The mouse moves translationally with the hand/wrist. Your finger is independent of that movement. I would think a trackball would make it worse. Maybe this is some crazy magic mouse thing. I still see this as bogus--but whatever. Happy New Year
My finger is on the same hand that is gripping the mouse. I find that moving my wrist to slide the mouse causes my finger to jerk. A trackball is not a problem because I push the button with my left hand and move the ball with the right.
Anyway, the point I wanted to make was that iOS text selection allows me to start from anywhere in the text I want to select, and move the selection points both ways. I never use the magnifying glass to pick a starting point, as somebody claimed they have to. That point seems to have gotten lost in the argument over whether it is credible that I have problems dragging things with the mouse.
Yeah that would be great I will try and search for a complete tutorial where I can lear some mor keyboard commands
Here's what I would love. Have a smart keyboard with a trackpad. And when the keyboard is disconnected iPP running iOS. When the keyboard is connected switch to OSX. I can appreciate what the surface is trying to do with Windows 10 and the "tablet" mode. I would love to see both environments able to run on the iPP depending on what hardware is or is not connected to the device.
But then aren't you forcing all iOS apps to have a desktop interface?
I'd rather have the iPad be the input device as well as the brains of a computer when connected to an external display. I.e. A adaptive input device.
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A good summary of this conversation is that people have past habits on how they use computers based on many years of using a mouse or trackpad, and those habits are hard to change. But I think the future of computing is to try to change those habits.
My dad did not start using a computer until after age 50, and as a result he is terrible with computers and always having problems. My advise is to force yourself to change with the times, or else you will have problems later. I'm 42 years old, and I am 99% sure that sometime during my lifetime, the mouse/trackpad will be in the same category as a dial-up modem or floppy disc. Touch is the future, and this iPad Pro is perhaps the first full fledged touch computer. Now we just need the software to catch up to it. Give it a few months and it will happen.
My dad did not start using a computer until after age 50, and as a result he is terrible with computers and always having problems. My advise is to force yourself to change with the times, or else you will have problems later. I'm 42 years old, and I am 99% sure that sometime during my lifetime, the mouse/trackpad will be in the same category as a dial-up modem or floppy disc. Touch is the future, and this iPad Pro is perhaps the first full fledged touch computer. Now we just need the software to catch up to it. Give it a few months and it will happen.
Good thoughts but the "one size fits all" philosophy embodied by "touch is the future" seems to be ignoring the comments in this thread explaining why one type of input method is better than another for specific tasks.
Being in the industry for nearly 40 years, I am 99% sure that you'll still be using a physical pointing device of some sort for the rest of your life. I'm old enough to remember having the same debate regarding keyboards. Back then "voice was the future". Decades later, the closest we have is, "Siri, what is my favorite ice cream?"
Good thoughts but the "one size fits all" philosophy embodied by "touch is the future" seems to be ignoring the comments in this thread explaining why one type of input method is better than another for specific tasks.
Being in the industry for nearly 40 years, I am 99% sure that you'll still be using a physical pointing device of some sort for the rest of your life. I'm old enough to remember having the same debate regarding keyboards. Back then "voice was the future". Decades later, the closest we have is, "Siri, what is my favorite ice cream?"
*You* might be using a physical pointing device for the rest of your life, but what about people who don't need to do those specific tasks for which physical pointing device is better? As I keep saying, I've always preferred to use keyboard shortcuts over mouse whenever possible, and now that touch input is here, my list of tasks for which physical pointing device is better than either touch or keyboard is extremely short. Only thing I can think of is precision graphics / design work, which I don't do.
Dunno if this was mentioned yet, but native referencing on Office Word app would be great. That's one of the few things that really bothers me about working off iOS. In general I would say it's less of a HW issue but more of a SW issue.
On a side note, it does seem that it will take a few more years until mobile devices replace our perception of 'workstations', I for one found that moving my workflow from my rMBP to my iPad meant that I had to really think about the workflow and restructure it in such a way that increased focus and quality of my work. It does however mean that efficiency may take a small hit (initially).
On a side note, it does seem that it will take a few more years until mobile devices replace our perception of 'workstations', I for one found that moving my workflow from my rMBP to my iPad meant that I had to really think about the workflow and restructure it in such a way that increased focus and quality of my work. It does however mean that efficiency may take a small hit (initially).
To start with, my comment wasn't directed toward you but I'll be a little more specific so as to reduce confusion. To whatever extent you are using a physical pointing device today I am 99% certain you will continue to do so. I don't believe that there will be an alternative technology that will replace a physical pointing device. I wasn't implying that if a person doesn't currently use a physical pointing device then they WILL in the future.
To start with, my comment wasn't directed toward you but I'll be a little more specific so as to reduce confusion. To whatever extent you are using a physical pointing device today I am 99% certain you will continue to do so. I don't believe that there will be an alternative technology that will replace a physical pointing device. I wasn't implying that if a person doesn't currently use a physical pointing device then they WILL in the future.
Er, how do you figure that? Because I can tell you that the iPad has already significantly decreased my use of a pointing device, because I now spend all my leisure computer activities on the iPad. And every minute I spend on an iPad is a minute less I'm spending without using a pointing device. And now with the iPad Pro, I think I'd be doing a lot more of my work tasks on the iPad, possibly with an external keyboard, but no pointing device, further decreasing my use of pointing devices. So I'm not sure what you are basing your reasoning on when you proclaim that our use of pointing devices wouldn't decrease in the future.
The big difference:
- Go from bottom right to top left with a mouse requires me to move my hand about 1 cm.
- Do this on an iPad Pro and I have to move my whole arm.
If you're a heavy user, you're doing lots of stuff, which requires lots of interactions. By default, this while cost a human a whole lot more energy when it's touch.
In my opinion, for heavy tasks, a mouse will always be superior. The solution is reducing heavy tasks to light tasks by changing your workflow. F.i.: business intelligence reports rather than Excel.
However, wouldn't it be possible to use both hands to navigate through an iPad Pro? (Or any other touchscreen device for that matter)... I normally find my self having both my hands on either side of my iPad Air 2 (when propped up on a table) so I find it marginally more intuitive. But I do agree that for some tasks the mouse is a much better solution. I think the biggest problem right now is the difference in accuracy, but that may or may not change with the Apple Pencil.