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Which GPU for Mac Pro 5,1 Gamer?
- Thread starter Alchemist
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Can you post some benchmarks like 3d mark fire strike etc from under the windows please?
No. Windows is evil, and must be defeated. I refuse to desecrate my Mac with those squares.
I am having the same issue between my AMD and Nvidia cards. I am getting better performance on my Mac Pro with my 280X Toxic compared to my GTX970 by a few frames and much less stutter. The 970 crashes every time during the game too. I have not been able to complete an actual race with the GTX970.
I will admit that the 280X Toxic seems to work very well for F1 2016. I have everything set to ultra or high except for particles which I have set to medium. But there is a few graphical issues I am getting with both of the cards. Some of the textures are way too low.
I'm starting to look at things a different now.
No doubt the GTX 680 is a nice native card. One can be had for $100 if you scout around some and have the means to flash it yourself. I really don't unless I really, really, really wanted to.
The other way I'm starting to see it is Apple has stated that the next iMacs will support VR. Likely they will have RX chips in them.
So does that mean that if that happens, boom, you get native support. For example, let's say the upcoming iMacs get the RX 470/480 chips. Then in little time, this community will start testing and finding out which PC cards are plug-in-play (minus boot screens). I'm sure we'll identify a few. Then flashing will be available for boot screen support.
And being that an RX470 can be had currently for $150, it seems to make sense to hold out until the iMacs are refreshed before blowing $200 for a flashed GTX 680.
I'm pretty sure an RX470 does not exceed the specs of the Mac Pro. In-fact, it uses significantly less power than the GTX 680, and is way more future-proofed and will run modern games significantly better, even VR! Would an RX 480 exceed that power specs?
Basically, I think it's worth waiting until later this year because there may be a lot more cost-effective options available that will get native support.
No doubt the GTX 680 is a nice native card. One can be had for $100 if you scout around some and have the means to flash it yourself. I really don't unless I really, really, really wanted to.
The other way I'm starting to see it is Apple has stated that the next iMacs will support VR. Likely they will have RX chips in them.
So does that mean that if that happens, boom, you get native support. For example, let's say the upcoming iMacs get the RX 470/480 chips. Then in little time, this community will start testing and finding out which PC cards are plug-in-play (minus boot screens). I'm sure we'll identify a few. Then flashing will be available for boot screen support.
And being that an RX470 can be had currently for $150, it seems to make sense to hold out until the iMacs are refreshed before blowing $200 for a flashed GTX 680.
I'm pretty sure an RX470 does not exceed the specs of the Mac Pro. In-fact, it uses significantly less power than the GTX 680, and is way more future-proofed and will run modern games significantly better, even VR! Would an RX 480 exceed that power specs?
Basically, I think it's worth waiting until later this year because there may be a lot more cost-effective options available that will get native support.
Another way of asking. Let's say Apple has native drivers for all cards out there. What high-end cards meet the wattage profile?
Edit: I think I lied when I said the GTX 680 uses less power than a RX 470. From some sites I've been seeing, that's simply not true. I can't find a spec that shows a GTX 680 peaking above 200 watts.
What I'm getting at, is are we actually MORE limited by the watt constraints than we are the driver support?
Edit: I think I lied when I said the GTX 680 uses less power than a RX 470. From some sites I've been seeing, that's simply not true. I can't find a spec that shows a GTX 680 peaking above 200 watts.
What I'm getting at, is are we actually MORE limited by the watt constraints than we are the driver support?
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Folks, no offense, if you want to game on your mac and you're prepared to invest in a cMP + GPU, go to bootcamp. Why anyone would ever put up with gaming on OSX is completely beyond me. The performance delta between the two is almost an order of magnitude. The potential of your hardware will never be realized under OS X.
That's perfectly fine. You can do Bootcamp. One of the benefits of the Mac is how seamless you can run EITHER MacOS or Windows.
But if you're gaming in Windows, then that's what you're doing. That's for some Windows forum. Same goes for all the benchmarks some people post in various pro apps 'on the Mac' and it turns out to be a Hackintosh. It's not that it isn't interesting, or "wrong" somehow, but we need to separate MacOS from Windows and Mac hardware from Hackintosh.
There is a reason why there isn't just one WORLD forum on the internet where we discuss everything from cooking, to cars to flowers to guns to pets to computers to personal hygiene.... This is the Mac Pro subsection of a larger Mac forum where I expect to find information on the Mac Pro (any version). I'd welcome a thread discussing how to install Windows 10 on unsupported Mac Pro hardware, and possibly some follow up questions on how to solve driver problems. But once you're booted into Windows and up and running there, any topics probably belong elsewhere.
Against that context, on this forum we accept that people are using Mac hardware and MacOS and try to make the most of it. No need to try to convince people of anything else, since I assume we have all made a conscious decision based on our own arbitrary needs.
But I didn't respond to that. I specifically responded to:
And then you quoted me on that.
I wouldn't start a Windows game performance discussion in the Mac Pro forum. I'm not pointing the finger, I'm just saying I wouldn't be involved personally.
It sounds like there must be a bug in the new Nvidia web drivers as I've now done 3 or 4 100% races on my flashed GTX680 4GB under 10.12.4 just using the default MacOS drivers ( I haven't installed the web drivers). Hopefully an update will fix it for you.
I am assuming the same. The 280X is running the game fine though and I am in no hurry to switch back to the GTX970 so it's ok for now.
As the OP, can't say I agree.
The Forum is 'Mac Pro' and it is nested inside the group 'Macs'. I am going to be running a Mac Pro and I'm going to be dual booting it, though predominantly running games under Windows 10 via Bootcamp. It's still running on a Mac Pro though - hence the choice of this forum. There is a separate Mac OS forum where this thread would quite clearly not be pertinent. Here though, IMHO it is ok.
Anyway, my Dual Mini 6-pin PCI-E to Single 8-pin PCI-E cable arrived today so it's time to start trying things out. Will be putting it all together later hopefully!
Agree, "Mac Pro" is a hardware's name, not software. If we want to discuss the pure MacOS stuff, we should go to the MacOS forum.
And Mac Pro forum should include everything about Mac Pro. Any hardware (including mod), any supported software (any OS), and any related bugs / work around / fix...
Once you have successfully installed Windows via Bootcamp and solved any driver issues related to Mac stuff like Magic Trackpads and whatnot, it's not a "Mac Pro" anymore—in terms of performance/troubleshoooting. It's a native Windows machine with windows applications/games and Windows drivers.
In another post I mentioned lots of things that fits in just fine:
I said what I said simply because the only thing that makes sense to me, in terms of getting the best information on optimising performance or trouble shooting issues at that stage, is by talking to other Windows users. Of course there will be users here with Windows experience, but it's more by coincidence.
I see tons of threads on Reduser.net or liftgammagain.com where people are discussing Mac Pro 'issues' and 'possibilities'. I'd say, on average, they cover around 60% of the knowlegebase of this forum. The miss out on a lot. Probably because they want to stay in one place.
I like this forum because it sees quite a bit of traffic and there is new content several times a day. But here is not where I discuss cameras, Cinema 4D, Maxwell, Arnold, DaVinci Resolve or any other interests. And if I had Windows installed, I wouldn't discuss that here either—it's simply not where the knowledge is at. Personal preference.
In another post I mentioned lots of things that fits in just fine:
- Getting Windows installed in the first place (some Macs are not officially supported)
- solving driver issues
- curiosity benchmarks to see how performance differs between Windows and MacOS
- topics related to problems a Mac user might face when booting into Windows the first few times—like anti virus software tips or other 'startup' issues
I said what I said simply because the only thing that makes sense to me, in terms of getting the best information on optimising performance or trouble shooting issues at that stage, is by talking to other Windows users. Of course there will be users here with Windows experience, but it's more by coincidence.
I see tons of threads on Reduser.net or liftgammagain.com where people are discussing Mac Pro 'issues' and 'possibilities'. I'd say, on average, they cover around 60% of the knowlegebase of this forum. The miss out on a lot. Probably because they want to stay in one place.
I like this forum because it sees quite a bit of traffic and there is new content several times a day. But here is not where I discuss cameras, Cinema 4D, Maxwell, Arnold, DaVinci Resolve or any other interests. And if I had Windows installed, I wouldn't discuss that here either—it's simply not where the knowledge is at. Personal preference.
Mac Pro is just the piece of hardware, no matter running Windows or Linux or MacOS (or even no OS on it), it is still the same piece of Mac Pro hardware. e.g. 100 year later, a no OS (no HDD) Mac Pro in a museum, what will the people call it? A Mac Pro. Because the hardware make it a Mac Pro. Nothing to do with the software.
Besides, for Windows, Apple has official support (bootcamp apps and driver). And we don't need any hardware mod to install Windows. We can even call their support to ask about the Windows issue (if bootcamp related). Apple never said that once we install Windows on a Mac, that will no longer be a Mac. If Apple support a Mac that installed Windows. And we decide that a Windows Mac Pro is not a Mac anymore. Is that mean Apple is now supporting a non Mac PC? The logic just doesn't sound right to me.
Just like install MacOS on a PC won't make it a Mac, we give those PC a name Hackintosh is exactly because they still cannot be a Mac.
My understanding is that the terms PC refer to a very large set of computer, which including any kind of personal computer. Mac Pro is just a small subset inside this large set. "What is Mac Pro" is defined by Apple. As long as they call this computer a Mac Pro, it is a Mac Pro. And no matter what / how we use it. It is still a Mac Pro. Is it consider properly use this piece of hardware is another matter.
If installing Windows will make a computer no longer belongs to the group "Mac Pro". Then I think something like Pixlas mod make the Mac Pro even deviate more from it's original state. At least it's a physical hardware change, and Apple never support it.
Anyway, I totally agree that's just a personal preference if individual member want to talk about Windows or anything other than Mac Pro's hardware in this forum.
P.S. It's pretty interesting to discuss "what is a Mac Pro". I never ever think I will discuss this topic on this forum.
I realise english isn't my mother tongue, and I take full responsibility for explaining myself in a manner so incoherent and clumsy as to render replies like the last few ones.
What I am saying boils down to: I think the best source of information on Windows, regardless if you run Windows on a Dell, HP, ASUS, Alienware, home built or a Mac Pro, is a Windows forum.
I am not confused about whether installing Windows on a Mac Pro turns it into a "PC" or if it's still a Mac Pro.
'Windows' is unrelated to hardware, so it doesn't matter if it was booted on random PC parts or from a Mac Pro.
What I am saying boils down to: I think the best source of information on Windows, regardless if you run Windows on a Dell, HP, ASUS, Alienware, home built or a Mac Pro, is a Windows forum.
I am not confused about whether installing Windows on a Mac Pro turns it into a "PC" or if it's still a Mac Pro.
'Windows' is unrelated to hardware, so it doesn't matter if it was booted on random PC parts or from a Mac Pro.
In my opinion, OP asked his question in the most appropriate forum. OP isn't just asking about Windows gaming, he also wants it to work seamlessly with OS X and FCPx.
There is just no way a random Windows gamer forum is going to know any this, or about issues with video cards and the Mac Pro, for which there are many...power issues, boot screen issues, driver issues, monitor compatibility, PC cards vs EFI cards, the right power cables, etc. etc.
In my opinion, OP is asking in absolutely the right place in order to get worthwhile answers from people comprehensively experienced with the issues that are significantly unique a Mac Pro.
There is just no way a random Windows gamer forum is going to know any this, or about issues with video cards and the Mac Pro, for which there are many...power issues, boot screen issues, driver issues, monitor compatibility, PC cards vs EFI cards, the right power cables, etc. etc.
In my opinion, OP is asking in absolutely the right place in order to get worthwhile answers from people comprehensively experienced with the issues that are significantly unique a Mac Pro.
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I wonder if people realise that I tried to help the OP by saying that:
If you want to game on the Mac, then look for Mac benchmarks—don't look at Windows numbers since they are misleading and don't mean much since performance won't necessarily correlate.
Then thornslack quotes me and says: "don't game on the Mac Pro in MacOS. It's trash and won't reach the same potential as it would on Windows. Go to Bootcamp."
Then I say "it's fine to game on Windows, but the expertise for that can logically be found on a Windows forum. When you're up and running in Windows, it's of no relevance that you booted from a Mac Pro. This was an effort to refocus the attention to any remaining questions about gaming on the computer 'as a Mac', or for that matter any associated questions like if you buy a gaming GPU, what else can you use it for?
I'm simply separating the things related to Mac hardware and software from Windows.
Apart from the Windows gaming related things, I completely agree! This is definitely the right forum.
If you want to game on the Mac, then look for Mac benchmarks—don't look at Windows numbers since they are misleading and don't mean much since performance won't necessarily correlate.
Then thornslack quotes me and says: "don't game on the Mac Pro in MacOS. It's trash and won't reach the same potential as it would on Windows. Go to Bootcamp."
Then I say "it's fine to game on Windows, but the expertise for that can logically be found on a Windows forum. When you're up and running in Windows, it's of no relevance that you booted from a Mac Pro. This was an effort to refocus the attention to any remaining questions about gaming on the computer 'as a Mac', or for that matter any associated questions like if you buy a gaming GPU, what else can you use it for?
I'm simply separating the things related to Mac hardware and software from Windows.
ActionableMango said:
Apart from the Windows gaming related things, I completely agree! This is definitely the right forum.
I think OP posted in the right forum. I want to buy gtx 1080ti like the OP too, but I'm not sure if it is a good choice.
It's hard to find reliable benchmarks with such an old, nearly ancient specs on the interweb this days.
Most often the cpus are heavy overclocked so it is hard to compare them to cMP.
So yes, I'm interested in knowing the performance in OS X (pro apps) and on the Bootcamp while gaming (OS X is crap, the drivers are old and the OpenGL support is so old - shame on you apple) and I think it is the right forum to ask about these benchmarks.
It's hard to find reliable benchmarks with such an old, nearly ancient specs on the interweb this days.
Most often the cpus are heavy overclocked so it is hard to compare them to cMP.
So yes, I'm interested in knowing the performance in OS X (pro apps) and on the Bootcamp while gaming (OS X is crap, the drivers are old and the OpenGL support is so old - shame on you apple) and I think it is the right forum to ask about these benchmarks.
There is a thread talking about mac pro 5.1's gaming benchmark with 1080 ti:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/unigene-superposition-benchmark.2043107/
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Not sure how much people would agree that over the past 8 years since 2009's Mac Pro 4.1, the major part of the gaming capability advancement are from GPU. The Mac Pro 5.1 is not old if you compare with newer CPUs even though intel has made many new generations since then. I'd say your gaming experience are not getting better with the latest intel CPU if you don't have decent GPUs.
Take an example from graphic rendering. If you have GTX 680 (from 2012), compare with 1080 ti, it's rendering power advanced 6X. CPU wise, only clock play a major role affecting your game. A 6 core 12 thread w3690 on a cMP working at 3.46Ghz is not making much difference from a PC running with latest Intel CPU running at 3.6Ghz if you play with 1080 Ti.
I played Battle Fields 1 on mac pro 5.1. Every setting at max on my Apple LED display. It's just amazingly fast.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/unigene-superposition-benchmark.2043107/
[doublepost=1494972172][/doublepost]
Not sure how much people would agree that over the past 8 years since 2009's Mac Pro 4.1, the major part of the gaming capability advancement are from GPU. The Mac Pro 5.1 is not old if you compare with newer CPUs even though intel has made many new generations since then. I'd say your gaming experience are not getting better with the latest intel CPU if you don't have decent GPUs.
Take an example from graphic rendering. If you have GTX 680 (from 2012), compare with 1080 ti, it's rendering power advanced 6X. CPU wise, only clock play a major role affecting your game. A 6 core 12 thread w3690 on a cMP working at 3.46Ghz is not making much difference from a PC running with latest Intel CPU running at 3.6Ghz if you play with 1080 Ti.
I played Battle Fields 1 on mac pro 5.1. Every setting at max on my Apple LED display. It's just amazingly fast.
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