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I don't think the US is as important to the rest of the world in regards to automotive technologies and I don't say that to be rude. America has always had a very different type of market to Europe and Asia and American branded cars have always sold very poorly in Europe apart from Fords and Opels that are designed for the market here specifically. The regulations here are alot of more strict in terms of annual checks, safety testing and emissions and I'd say the German auto makers have the most influence over other brands and direction of standards than any other manufacturer.

The US is the #2 importer of German cars, number 1 being China...

The US has as strict, if not stricter Emissions than Europe does. In order for a vehicle to make it to the US as a new car, there are very heavy regulations on emissions testing. Our #1 state for vehicle sales, has an even stricter level (CARB).
 
It really depends per brand I think. There are some cars that sell by the bucket load and don’t do much outside the US.

Take Mercedes, they sell nearly twice as many in Europe compared to the North America market. https://www.best-selling-cars.com/b...des-benz-sales-worldwide-by-region-and-model/

Same for BMW https://www.best-selling-cars.com/b...mw-and-mini-brand-worldwide-sales-by-country/

I’m sure when one looks for VAG it be a similar picture.

So yes total new car sales (to finance companies?) in the US may be larger, but once you scratch that surface a very particular picture is on show.

Look at sales by Country. Europe is not one country, and each country has different regulations. Influence come from individual countries. China is King, US is second...
 
Doesn't Europe have a bunch of small battery EV's for sale?
They do but too few than are needed to replace the current ICE choices. As AFB suggests, we have the likes of MG delivering the budget options to the market but are pretty unreliable and don't come with apps to allow owners to monitor maintenance etc. They really are as cheap feeling as you can get. The company bought what was a pretty prestigious British motoring marque for marketing reasons and to give owners the impression they were not buying a Chinese car.

We have a Kia Niro currently on a temporary basis and even that has no app which is asonishing seeing as its a £37k car. It is supposed to be aimed at the average family, but is priced far too high IMO. I would imagine it will depreciate massively within a couple of years though and despite being blander than a beige Grandad, its a solid drive.
 
They do but too few than are needed to replace the current ICE choices. As AFB suggests, we have the likes of MG delivering the budget options to the market but are pretty unreliable and don't come with apps to allow owners to monitor maintenance etc. They really are as cheap feeling as you can get. The company bought what was a pretty prestigious British motoring marque for marketing reasons and to give owners the impression they were not buying a Chinese car.

We have a Kia Niro currently on a temporary basis and even that has no app which is asonishing seeing as its a £37k car. It is supposed to be aimed at the average family, but is priced far too high IMO. I would imagine it will depreciate massively within a couple of years though and despite being blander than a beige Grandad, its a solid drive.
They all depreciate massively sadly.

Anyone seen my £10k? I know I had it around here somewhere?
 
We have a Kia Niro currently on a temporary basis and even that has no app which is asonishing seeing as its a £37k car. It is supposed to be aimed at the average family, but is priced far too high IMO. I would imagine it will depreciate massively within a couple of years though and despite being blander than a beige Grandad, its a solid drive.
I didn't think most gas powered car owners care about apps for their car, and any EV based on a gas powered car is going to have the same poor app experience (I think the F150 Lightning may be an exception, but folks don't really talk about the phone apps much).
 
I didn't think most gas powered car owners care about apps for their car, and any EV based on a gas powered car is going to have the same poor app experience (I think the F150 Lightning may be an exception, but folks don't really talk about the phone apps much).
On an EV it’s a bit different. If your car is plugged in, you want to know when it hits 80% or whatever. Otherwise you have to stay with the car.
But the ability to set the AC and check the car is locked when not in the vehicle is great too!
 
On an EV it’s a bit different. If your car is plugged in, you want to know when it hits 80% or whatever. Otherwise you have to stay with the car.
But the ability to set the AC and check the car is locked when not in the vehicle is great too!
The app experience for the vehicle is important, I just figure that folks that have vehicles with no app are not going to clamor for an app (or would be able to tell if the experience is a good one or not with no prior experience).

When you set your AC in the app how long does it run for?
 
The US is the #2 importer of German cars, number 1 being China...

The US has as strict, if not stricter Emissions than Europe does. In order for a vehicle to make it to the US as a new car, there are very heavy regulations on emissions testing. Our #1 state for vehicle sales, has an even stricter level (CARB).

True but the UK is the biggest importer of German EV’s followed by the US which I found interesting. The UK have always been Germany’s biggest European market outside of Germany as they are hugely popular company car options.

You’re right about emissions but safety standards are more stringent here.
 
I feel like EV"s are still prohibitively expensive for people in the median of middle class income levels. Not just the purchase price, but the insurance and initial investment for support infrastructure of your home. It's relegated to upper middle class income and above. ANd in some areas of the country recharging infrastructure is just not there yet. And long term maintenance potential high cost. What's being researched to mitigate high cost of replacement batteries?
 
The app experience for the vehicle is important, I just figure that folks that have vehicles with no app are not going to clamor for an app (or would be able to tell if the experience is a good one or not with no prior experience).

When you set your AC in the app how long does it run for?
You just tell it what time you are leaving and it gets the car all nice and preconditioned for you.
 
I feel like EV"s are still prohibitively expensive for people in the median of middle class income levels. Not just the purchase price, but the insurance and initial investment for support infrastructure of your home. It's relegated to upper middle class income and above. ANd in some areas of the country recharging infrastructure is just not there yet. And long term maintenance potential high cost. What's being researched to mitigate high cost of replacement batteries?
You are right on the costs. But maintaining them is cheaper than an ICE car. Less moving parts.
Battery warranties are long and generally apart from some early EV’s are lasting longer with less degradation than anticipated.
If your 200 mile range EV can only do 175 after 8-10 years it’s still perfectly usable.
 
True but the UK is the biggest importer of German EV’s followed by the US which I found interesting. The UK have always been Germany’s biggest European market outside of Germany as they are hugely popular company car options.

You’re right about emissions but safety standards are more stringent here.

Are you sure? My research has China, then US as the number 2 importer of German vehicles... Both China and US show significantly higher than the UK.
 
I hope so too. The main problem that I still have with EVs is the battery technology and potential for fires; I know this doesn’t happen often but when it does it is a very major fire with often no or very little warning. Also the charging network where I live isn’t really up to par yet. If they can make them safer (fires), cheaper, and with a better charging network I’m ready (next time).
You might want to look into EVs using LFP chemistry. It has a little lower power density but almost no risk of fire. I believe that battery degradation is also less likely than other lithium designs.
 
I feel like EV"s are still prohibitively expensive for people in the median of middle class income levels. Not just the purchase price, but the insurance and initial investment for support infrastructure of your home. It's relegated to upper middle class income and above. ANd in some areas of the country recharging infrastructure is just not there yet. And long term maintenance potential high cost. What's being researched to mitigate high cost of replacement batteries?
Agreed. My wife and I had 2 2018 civics for our jobs (bought new from Honda). When I went 100% remote for covid we decided to sell both of those last year to take advantage of the VERY high used car market last year - and we sold our 2 civics for 80%+ of what we paid for them new. Despite this, our USED Tesla Model 3 was a bit more than 2 new EX model civics.

I looked at other EVs and they're in the high 30s mid 40s.

Another shocker for Tesla owners - 2 tires are $800 before taxes. And even if you do highway miles and try to drive softly, expect to replace all 4 of these every 40-50k.

As far as battery replacement, we got our Tesla Model 3 with 36k miles on it, and we have 71k on it now after a year and 3 months of ownership. Battery range is still within a few miles of when we got it. (But we charge mostly via a 110 outlet). Battery longevity looking great so far!
Tesla warranties the battery 120k miles or for Aug 2026 for us. Same for drive unit.


Agree 100% that EVs are expensive as ****.

The people that need EVs the most for "the environment" are the ones forced to commute - working jobs that don't pay all that well living in places that do not have garages / ev charging readily available.
 
The app experience for the vehicle is important, I just figure that folks that have vehicles with no app are not going to clamor for an app (or would be able to tell if the experience is a good one or not with no prior experience).

My first vehicle with an App was with Mopar's Uconnect app for my 2015 Ram (just sold). All I could do was unlock/lock, remote start (for 15 mins, up to 2 times before the key has to be used), check tire pressure.

My buddy just picked up a 2023 4xe Cherokee, which has similar features, but also has some plug-in additional features. I think having plug-in is going to drive the expectations of the general public towards wanting more.


When you set your AC in the app how long does it run for?

I don't know if there is a cutoff other than the High Voltage Battery (HVB) dropping below 20%, so basically days...
 
On an EV it’s a bit different. If your car is plugged in, you want to know when it hits 80% or whatever. Otherwise you have to stay with the car.
But the ability to set the AC and check the car is locked when not in the vehicle is great too!
I couldn't live without an App for my EV.

Setting charge limits especially because my local power utility 3x rates between 4-9pm, and because we only have a 110 outlet, I can't "schedule" charging as we're charging every hour we can (commute is only MWF).

Very important for 3rd party charging because MOST of them only let you charge for 2-4 hours before charging insane rates (to keep the chargers from getting too popular).

I can't imagine buying another car without having the abilities I do now. (Tesla). Can see any camera at any time, set AC, can roll down windows to vent during hot days, can open garage through Tesla app, open back trunk/charging door, etc.
 
Agreed. My wife and I had 2 2018 civics for our jobs (bought new from Honda). When I went 100% remote for covid we decided to sell both of those last year to take advantage of the VERY high used car market last year - and we sold our 2 civics for 80%+ of what we paid for them new. Despite this, our USED Tesla Model 3 was a bit more than 2 new EX model civics.

I looked at other EVs and they're in the high 30s mid 40s.

Another shocker for Tesla owners - 2 tires are $800 before taxes. And even if you do highway miles and try to drive softly, expect to replace all 4 of these every 40-50k.

As far as battery replacement, we got our Tesla Model 3 with 36k miles on it, and we have 71k on it now after a year and 3 months of ownership. Battery range is still within a few miles of when we got it. (But we charge mostly via a 110 outlet). Battery longevity looking great so far!
Tesla warranties the battery 120k miles or for Aug 2026 for us. Same for drive unit.


Agree 100% that EVs are expensive as ****.

The people that need EVs the most for "the environment" are the ones forced to commute - working jobs that don't pay all that well living in places that do not have garages / ev charging readily available.
Tyres are expensive, but you’ll save that much on brake pads and discs.
 
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Agreed. My wife and I had 2 2018 civics for our jobs (bought new from Honda). When I went 100% remote for covid we decided to sell both of those last year to take advantage of the VERY high used car market last year - and we sold our 2 civics for 80%+ of what we paid for them new. Despite this, our USED Tesla Model 3 was a bit more than 2 new EX model civics.

I looked at other EVs and they're in the high 30s mid 40s.

Another shocker for Tesla owners - 2 tires are $800 before taxes. And even if you do highway miles and try to drive softly, expect to replace all 4 of these every 40-50k.

As far as battery replacement, we got our Tesla Model 3 with 36k miles on it, and we have 71k on it now after a year and 3 months of ownership. Battery range is still within a few miles of when we got it. (But we charge mostly via a 110 outlet). Battery longevity looking great so far!
Tesla warranties the battery 120k miles or for Aug 2026 for us. Same for drive unit.


Agree 100% that EVs are expensive as ****.

The people that need EVs the most for "the environment" are the ones forced to commute - working jobs that don't pay all that well living in places that do not have garages / ev charging readily available.

I'm down to 2 vehicles (2019 TM3 and 2021 TMY). You forgot to add the higher insurance rates. My 6 months insurance premium is:

TM3: $ 1,412
TMY: $ 1,422

My 2015 Ram was $900, and my 2008 Audi A4 was $850. When I got my Ram in 2017 (2015 model) it was about $900. I only buy used vehicles.
 
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My first vehicle with an App was with Mopar's Uconnect app for my 2015 Ram (just sold). All I could do was unlock/lock, remote start (for 15 mins, up to 2 times before the key has to be used), check tire pressure.

My buddy just picked up a 2023 4xe Cherokee, which has similar features, but also has some plug-in additional features. I think having plug-in is going to drive the expectations of the general public towards wanting more.




I don't know if there is a cutoff other than the High Voltage Battery (HVB) dropping below 20%, so basically days...
IIRC they removed the 20% cutoff last year.
 
I'm down to 2 vehicles (2019 TM3 and 2021 TMY). You forgot to add the higher insurance rates. My 6 months insurance premium is:

TM3: $ 1,412
TMY: $ 1,422

My 2015 Ram was $900, and my 2008 Audi A4 was $850. When I got my Ram in 2017 (2015 model) it was about $900. I only buy used vehicles.
True true. For us, our State Farm rates went down about $60/mo going from 2 Civics to 1 used Tesla. BUT yes, Tesla insurance is insane. I can only imagine for a NEW Tesla.

Annual CA DMV Registration is INSANE. Despite my Tesla being used - $600+. lol.
 
Agreed. My wife and I had 2 2018 civics for our jobs (bought new from Honda). When I went 100% remote for covid we decided to sell both of those last year to take advantage of the VERY high used car market last year - and we sold our 2 civics for 80%+ of what we paid for them new. Despite this, our USED Tesla Model 3 was a bit more than 2 new EX model civics.

I looked at other EVs and they're in the high 30s mid 40s.

Another shocker for Tesla owners - 2 tires are $800 before taxes. And even if you do highway miles and try to drive softly, expect to replace all 4 of these every 40-50k.

As far as battery replacement, we got our Tesla Model 3 with 36k miles on it, and we have 71k on it now after a year and 3 months of ownership. Battery range is still within a few miles of when we got it. (But we charge mostly via a 110 outlet). Battery longevity looking great so far!
Tesla warranties the battery 120k miles or for Aug 2026 for us. Same for drive unit.


Agree 100% that EVs are expensive as ****.

The people that need EVs the most for "the environment" are the ones forced to commute - working jobs that don't pay all that well living in places that do not have garages / ev charging readily available.
Yeah, that's what I've been told and read regarding high wear items like Brakes and Tires. I work with a few people that own a Tesla. That was one of the things they mentioned. I have a 2021 Corolla SE right now. I bought brand new. And the new ones now have spiked in price insanely. So EV's have gone up even more as well with inflation.
 
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I couldn't live without an App for my EV.

Setting charge limits especially because my local power utility 3x rates between 4-9pm, and because we only have a 110 outlet, I can't "schedule" charging as we're charging every hour we can (commute is only MWF).

Very important for 3rd party charging because MOST of them only let you charge for 2-4 hours before charging insane rates (to keep the chargers from getting too popular).

I can't imagine buying another car without having the abilities I do now. (Tesla). Can see any camera at any time, set AC, can roll down windows to vent during hot days, can open garage through Tesla app, open back trunk/charging door, etc.
Agreed. I remember losing my old car in a large car park once (I parked the previous day). The ability to sound the horn and flash the lights would have been very useful back then.
 
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