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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,002
56,024
Behind the Lens, UK
Fair assessment ! I would profoundly prefer not to associate myself with the tesla brand, but seeing some of the figures range/unit of currency and power/unit of currency the model 3 seems like a no brainer. Is this too good to be true ?
Not a Tesla fan myself. But what they do get right is the charging network, software and batteries.
So it will tell you where to go charge on a journey based on the usage of chargers on your route. None of the others do that. Also the charger knows your car and payment method so no issues with contactless or apps to use.

But the cars themselves are pretty soulless for my taste
I drive a BMW i3. Love it.
 
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Flowstates

macrumors 6502
Aug 5, 2023
333
397
Not a Tesla fan myself. But what they do get right is the charging network, software and batteries.
So it will tell you where to go charge on a journey based on the usage of chargers on your route. None of the others do that. Also the charger knows your car and payment method so no issues with contactless or apps to use.

But the cars themselves are pretty soulless for my taste
I drive a BMW i3. Love it.

Thank you for the write-up. The BMW i3 hits the same itch as the ioniq5 for what seems to be (in my market at the least 17-25% less money.).

It is an hybrid, albeit a plug-in one. This car would be a city-car so range anxiety would be less of a bother smaller size appreciated. How developed is the current charging network in the UK ?

I had always pegged the i3s as falling into the 50-70k range of cars (that must've been their price on launch), thinking ... thinking ...
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,782
So Calif
They are a common company car so a lot are now appearing on the secondhand market now 3 year leases have expired, especially the Model 3’s.
Yes, very common - all my neighbors, co-workers and relatives have Teslas - either white or black.

Tesla resale values have dropped like a rock too as most EVs.

So when I showed up with a Ford Mustang Mach EV bought in June, everyone just gasped!
:eek:
IMG_0763.JPG
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,002
56,024
Behind the Lens, UK
Thank you for the write-up. The BMW i3 hits the same itch as the ioniq5 for what seems to be (in my market at the least 17-25% less money.).

It is an hybrid, albeit a plug-in one. This car would be a city-car so range anxiety would be less of a bother smaller size appreciated. How developed is the current charging network in the UK ?

I had always pegged the i3s as falling into the 50-70k range of cars (that must've been their price on launch), thinking ... thinking ...
Pretty well developed. The i3 isn’t a hybrid btw. They used to offer it with a range extender (REX) when it had a smaller battery. But mine has the larger battery.
I get around 120-160 miles depending on the time of year and driving style. But that’s plenty for me. I can charge at the office (for free) and I have a charger at home.
Probably do a journey when I need to charge on the road about once every 2-3 months. You just plan your stops ahead using apps like Zapmap or a better route planner.
 

Flowstates

macrumors 6502
Aug 5, 2023
333
397
@4sallypat Those look neat, although the front is not my cup of tea. I would most probably de-badge the horsie off the front if feasable, but current tariffs and emissions-tax on US cars make them impractical for anyone but the diehards. I gasped when I learned that mustangs are sub-30k cars in the US. In Switzerland they will run you around about 75k for a nice spec mustang and 65k for a mach-e, that's e-tron money.

@applefanboy Neat, thank you for the resources, I'll ponder.
 

Surfsalot

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Mar 18, 2023
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Over 70% of electricity here in NSW is powered by coal daily, not very environmentally friendly charging your car from coal out of the ground.
 

Surfsalot

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Yes, I had the Ford Lightning EV pickup truck for a year that can easily tow trailers, carry large loads and even off load energy to an RV.

View attachment 2252600
How many k's can you do towing a 20ft van? People here travel all around Australia in them, i have relos living/travelling for over a year with kids, not just a oldies thing. Caravan parks don't have EV charging.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,397
Hate them if you want. Tesla Model 3/Y are arguably the best you can get in their price point (US Market). Range, charging network, service centers, mobile service, software, drivability (acceleration), there just are so many. To me all the others were a sacrifice in one or many of the above. There is a reason the TMY was the number one selling vehicle in the world for Q1 2023...

Rivian has almost a year waiting list (meaning that the used market is too expensive for what you actually get), and on some of their forums people report 5+ month waits for appointments at service centers.

I only buy used, bought both of these since January 2023, and love them. Can't and won't go back.

(I do understand options and charging networks are different in different countries)



And since I gave up a 2015 Ram Hemi, I have my trailer for those motorcycle/Home Depot/heavy load days. My trailer has brakes and a brakeaway controller. I also have a brake controller inside for braking:

 

Surfsalot

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Mar 18, 2023
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Hate them if you want. Tesla Model 3/Y are arguably the best you can get in their price point (US Market). Range, charging network, service centers, mobile service, software, drivability (acceleration), there just are so many. To me all the others were a sacrifice in one or many of the above. There is a reason the TMY was the number one selling vehicle in the world for Q1 2023...

Rivian has almost a year waiting list (meaning that the used market is too expensive for what you actually get), and on some of their forums people report 5+ month waits for appointments at service centers.

I only buy used, bought both of these since January 2023, and love them. Can't and won't go back.

(I do understand options and charging networks are different in different countries)



And since I gave up a 2015 Ram Hemi, I have my trailer for those motorcycle/Home Depot/heavy load days. My trailer has brakes and a brakeaway controller. I also have a brake controller inside for braking:

Can you fit 4 surfboards with 4 people in it though :)
 

jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
11,385
30,033
SoCal
Hate them if you want. Tesla Model 3/Y are arguably the best you can get in their price point (US Market). Range, charging network, service centers, mobile service, software, drivability (acceleration), there just are so many. To me all the others were a sacrifice in one or many of the above. There is a reason the TMY was the number one selling vehicle in the world for Q1 2023...

Rivian has almost a year waiting list (meaning that the used market is too expensive for what you actually get), and on some of their forums people report 5+ month waits for appointments at service centers.

I only buy used, bought both of these since January 2023, and love them. Can't and won't go back.

(I do understand options and charging networks are different in different countries)



And since I gave up a 2015 Ram Hemi, I have my trailer for those motorcycle/Home Depot/heavy load days. My trailer has brakes and a brakeaway controller. I also have a brake controller inside for braking:

clearly in 2023 the price point has been far more attractive (actual price cuts plus the potential fed tax credit), that wasn't the case in late '22 when I got my Bolt EUV. But for me the main reason to not pick a Tesla was/is the lack of manual controls, don't do voice commands and hate to lean over to a huge screen in the middle ...
What Tesla really has going for them is their early investment in the charging infrastructure
 

Surfsalot

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Mar 18, 2023
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You wouldn't spend $60k on an EV for that purpose. You'd opt for a Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe or pick up a secondhand 2017 Tesla Model 3 for $35K if you wanted something slightly better. Unless Australia is like Europe where ICE cars are starting to be financially forced out of cities, or with fuel prices increasing, just keep it as long as you can. I don't plan on getting rid of my A4 in the near future because its done just less than 40k miles and does 55mpg.
Try $70KAUD with low k's, even with over 300 still in $40K range

 

zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
2,611
6,963
Hate them if you want. Tesla Model 3/Y are arguably the best you can get in their price point (US Market). Range, charging network, service centers, mobile service, software, drivability (acceleration), there just are so many. To me all the others were a sacrifice in one or many of the above. There is a reason the TMY was the number one selling vehicle in the world for Q1 2023...

Rivian has almost a year waiting list (meaning that the used market is too expensive for what you actually get), and on some of their forums people report 5+ month waits for appointments at service centers.

I only buy used, bought both of these since January 2023, and love them. Can't and won't go back.

(I do understand options and charging networks are different in different countries)



And since I gave up a 2015 Ram Hemi, I have my trailer for those motorcycle/Home Depot/heavy load days. My trailer has brakes and a brakeaway controller. I also have a brake controller inside for braking:


I don't like Tesla. Bad build quality, not many features, loud cabin, tired design, the list goes on...

...however, you're completely right, nothing beats the overall package (*if* Supercharging is part of that package) for the money. If you want a step up in quality you have to spend 20-30k more than a base Model Y/3 and then you run into a ton of other issues with reliability (look at Rivian), serviceability (Tesla's system is dead simple, all done through the app, pretty consistent experience), and bad infotainment. Charging infrastructure everywhere outside of some areas in Europe is TERRIBLE. Even in the Bay Area, the supposed home of technology, innovation, and where the EV race started with Tesla, the charging infrastructure outside of Superchargers is ABYSMAL. I like CarPlay but Tesla's infotainment is one of the best in the business, especially on a system responsiveness level.

Our Tesla has had a bunch of problems, yes, but the service hasn't been completely terrible. In fact the in app service tool is pretty great in my opinion. Usually we can get everything fixed within 1 week or a couple days and they give us a loaner Tesla to use during the downtime.

Now that other cars will be able to use the Supercharger network maybe the formula changes a bit. But even so, it's hard to beat the value especially if you buy used like you did (smart).
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,256
7,281
Seattle
I've always been a guy that drives a car for 200K miles before getting rid of it - therefore I've never considered a lease. But for my upcoming EV purchase, I'm thinking a lease makes more sense given how rapidly the tech is changing. Just swap the car out every three years and enjoy the ride. :)
It’s not too bad if you don’t drive an above average number of miles. You are basically paying depreciation + interest for the duration of the lease.
 
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zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
2,611
6,963
Very interested in the Lotus Eletre for one reason: the supposed incredible sound system from KEF (KEF make some of the best speakers on the market). I'm willing to pay a huge premium for a good sound system, it's one of the huge reasons we placed a deposit for Polestar 3. I literally go driving sometimes just to listen to music in the car. But I think Eletre will start at 100k+, too much money to put into a car. We'll see.

Polestar need to start the press drives for Polestar 3 soon, it's been over a year since the announcement and we've seen nothing beyond the show car.
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,256
7,281
Seattle
Over 70% of electricity here in NSW is powered by coal daily, not very environmentally friendly charging your car from coal out of the ground.
Even if your power grid was 100% coal, and EV would only produce about the same CO2 as a 50mpg ICEV. That’s going to be much less than almost any gas-powered vehicle other than a small hybrid. As your grid becomes greener that EV gets greener, too, but the ICEV is still putting out CO2. AU should be a great place for wind and solar power, even if just for the cost savings alone.
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,256
7,281
Seattle
a 10 hour drive here is nothing, Brisbane to Sydney
I’m in the western US and 10 hours is not unusual here either. I wouldn’t hesitate to do it in an EV, now. I’d do a little preplanning in choosing my route but it’s not hard now and with the continued buildout and renewed commitment to the charging networks by the auto manufacturers, it’s going to get even easier.
 
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thettareddast

macrumors 6502
Aug 29, 2016
401
539
Over 70% of electricity here in NSW is powered by coal daily, not very environmentally friendly charging your car from coal out of the ground.

burning fossil fuel to generate electricity to propel an electric car.... is still overall more environmentally friendly than burning fossil fuel in a combustion motor to propel the car

that's because the electric drivetrain is far more efficient
 

Surfsalot

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Mar 18, 2023
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Even if your power grid was 100% coal, and EV would only produce about the same CO2 as a 50mpg ICEV. That’s going to be much less than almost any gas-powered vehicle other than a small hybrid. As your grid becomes greener that EV gets greener, too, but the ICEV is still putting out CO2. AU should be a great place for wind and solar power, even if just for the cost savings alone.
EVs mostly charge overnight so they aren't being powered by rooftop solar anyhow, I do have solar but now it's only useful here if you use it up during the day, the FIT you get back is hardly anything.
Good if you work from home while your car is charging maybe, but then add aircon, pool, office, everything else running, rainy days, winter etc etc
 

Surfsalot

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burning fossil fuel to generate electricity to propel an electric car.... is still overall more environmentally friendly than burning fossil fuel in a combustion motor to propel the car

that's because the electric drivetrain is far more efficient
what happens to the battery when needs replacing?
 

Surfsalot

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Outside of Capital city EV use Australia is a long long way behind the rest of the world, due to the size of the country and driving people do, also cost for a good brand name vehicle, the closest Tesla service centre as a example is 4 hours one way and 6 the other for me, and I live in the biggest coastal city between Newcastle and Gold Coast, same goes for the nearest Apple Store lol.
One Tesla charging station with 4 plug ins.
Good luck to you guys that can get by with one and at a good price, here younger people are priced out of the housing market without worrying about a $60K plus EV, most are driving 10 plus year old cars.
 

Eric5h5

macrumors 68020
Dec 9, 2004
2,494
604
Over 70% of electricity here in NSW is powered by coal daily, not very environmentally friendly charging your car from coal out of the ground.
As others said, even if it was 100%, it would still be more environmentally friendly than ICEVs. A few large plants generating power is significantly more efficient than thousands of little engines. And you'd be mistaken if you think it's going to stay at 70%.
AUrenewables.png
See a trend there?

what happens to the battery when needs replacing?

It gets reused (e.g. home storage), and eventually recycled.
 
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