I am assuming you are not considering the Hertz fire sale Teslas ?
I'd only get it used from Tesla.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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I'd only get it used from Tesla.
Not sure what promising tech is going to replace EVs. Hybrids combine the worst traits of ICE and BEVs. Hydrogen is a non-starter. BEV is here with promising advancements in battery tech on the horizon. And Tesla is poised to be there. The EV market in Europe, imo, won’t be influenced by BMW or Mercedes. There offerings look nice on the surface, but are expensive and not really mass-market.
As I said above hybrids combine the worst of traits between ice and BEVs and are not zero tail pipe emissions. Is there any other tech that is zero tailpipe or close to it poised to be a forerunner?
The only thing one can do with the Tesla app is to press on the percentage and have it change to mileage. There is no battery tab in the app — unless I somehow missed it.
Nope, much worse than that in the eyes of some people, and incredibly inspiring in the eyes of others. But hey, this isn't about me, I just like nice transparent pricing and consumers to be able to get a good deal for themselves. A car manufacturer taking that in house is not it, on the contrary, that is just more profit for them.
You can go into the service menu and see a little more about the battery health. If you go to Software, then long press the word "Model" then in the popup type in "service"
From there you can go into the HV battery and see a little more. But you are right. To really do anything, you need to do a true battery health test, which includes leaving the vehicle for up to 24 hours plugged into a L2 charger. The vehicle drains the battery and cycles a full charge to report the true health.
The approximate health, you can do what you said. Using math if it says 80% and 240 miles, you can convert the ratio to 100% = X miles.
240 miles / 80% = x miles / 100%.
(240 * 100)/80 = 300 miles
Basically, if the precent is 80% with a mile range of 240, if it was charged to 100% it would have a range of 300 miles. The problem with this, is it accounts for driving style. The true test in the service menu tells you the actual battery health.
Service Menu instructions:
Why is hydrogen a non-starter? BMW are due to release 3 different hydrogen cars in 2025.
BMW iX5 Hydrogen (G05): Hydrogen based mobility and technical data | BMW.UK
All highlights of the BMW iX5 Hydrogen (G05): Benefits of hydrogen-powered driving, technical data and services. Discover now.
www.bmw.co.uk
Toyota too:
Hydrogen Cars | Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles | Toyota UK
Easy to refuel and emitting nothing but water, our Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric vehicles have the potential to revolutionise the way we drive. Find more here.
It has started. Is it not a good thing to have more options other than EV's for greener motoring in the future?
Again, there is a profit either way. The new EV model (fixed pricing direct to customer with 0 dealers) just keeps the middleman profit for themselves. So, your problem is simply who makes profit... Unless you can tell the final selling price to cost-to-deliver ratio for both, you have no idea who is making more per vehicle. If you can, then you have more inside information than any of us do, at least compared to the US.
More profit to a manufacture does not mean more expensive to the customer. It could be more, or it might be cheaper... The automotive industry has designed it so you have no idea.
You get a warm feeling in your belly because you got them to knock off $2k at the day of closing. But you don't know if the MSRP for the vehicle was listed 10% higher than it needed to be to give them that wiggle room...
Why is hydrogen a non-starter? BMW are due to release 3 different hydrogen cars in 2025.
BMW iX5 Hydrogen (G05): Hydrogen based mobility and technical data | BMW.UK
All highlights of the BMW iX5 Hydrogen (G05): Benefits of hydrogen-powered driving, technical data and services. Discover now.www.bmw.co.uk
Toyota too:
Hydrogen Cars | Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles | Toyota UK
Easy to refuel and emitting nothing but water, our Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric vehicles have the potential to revolutionise the way we drive. Find more here.www.toyota.co.uk
It has started. Is it not a good thing to have more options other than EV's for greener motoring in the future?
The problem is "fueling" stations. Gas/diesel is already set in their network. EV's are not fully mature, but are much easier to create, since the "fuel" for EVs already has an existing distribution network.
Hydrogen stations will be starting from scratch...
Here's a map in the US:
You can go into the service menu and see a little more about the battery health. If you go to Software, then long press the word "Model" then in the popup type in "service"
From there you can go into the HV battery and see a little more. But you are right. To really do anything, you need to do a true battery health test, which includes leaving the vehicle for up to 24 hours plugged into a L2 charger. The vehicle drains the battery and cycles a full charge to report the true health.
The approximate health, you can do what you said. Using math if it says 80% and 240 miles, you can convert the ratio to 100% = X miles.
240 miles / 80% = x miles / 100%.
(240 * 100)/80 = 300 miles
Basically, if the precent is 80% with a mile range of 240, if it was charged to 100% it would have a range of 300 miles. The problem with this, is it accounts for driving style. The true test in the service menu tells you the actual battery health.
Service Menu instructions:
It should not account for driving style as the range depicted by Tesla is not based off current power consumption, but by the EPA rated consumption.
You could be either super hypermiller or Mr.leadfoot. It will always say that 240 mile range at 80% if that is what the BMS is calculating based on the batteries current capacity vs the EPA rated consumption.
And that goes both ways
Just because there is direct to consumer selling (it really isn't a new EV model, the model has existed for many years across many industries) doesn't mean its any better either. Considering the cost to the consumer doesn't materially change, combined with huge price dumps reflecting in non-steady pricing, it is a reasonable assumption there is a lot of meat on the bone. Neither is more transparant, that has been my point all along. With regards to Tesla specifically they have been competing on first market advantage, their network, and now on price. It has worked to a degree as the volume seller, tides is turning. People don't just want a cheap deal, they want a good deal. People don't want to be undersold by their own manufacturer directly, nobody benefits there.
I thought the Tesla app meant the phone app. Not the in car menus. My confusion.You can go into the service menu and see a little more about the battery health. If you go to Software, then long press the word "Model" then in the popup type in "service"
From there you can go into the HV battery and see a little more. But you are right. To really do anything, you need to do a true battery health test, which includes leaving the vehicle for up to 24 hours plugged into a L2 charger. The vehicle drains the battery and cycles a full charge to report the true health.
The approximate health, you can do what you said. Using math if it says 80% and 240 miles, you can convert the ratio to 100% = X miles.
240 miles / 80% = x miles / 100%.
(240 * 100)/80 = 300 miles
Basically, if the precent is 80% with a mile range of 240, if it was charged to 100% it would have a range of 300 miles. The problem with this, is it accounts for driving style. The true test in the service menu tells you the actual battery health.
Service Menu instructions:
That is not my understanding... The %/Mile Range in the infotainment is based off of actual expected range. The reported overall vehicle range in advertisements are now off of the EPA rated (this is why the range changed by model year).
This is why when I get home from my commute, and it says I should get home with 47% and it's always within 1% when I get home 26 miles and 2 hours later... If it was using EPA it would never be accurate.
IMO, hydrogen will not go anywhere. It will just be another greener alternative with a decimal point market share. Here in the US hydrogen is a decimal point in terms of market share. A robust distribution network is needed as well as reasonable prices per gallon or liter.Why is hydrogen a non-starter? BMW are due to release 3 different hydrogen cars in 2025.
BMW iX5 Hydrogen (G05): Hydrogen based mobility and technical data | BMW.UK
All highlights of the BMW iX5 Hydrogen (G05): Benefits of hydrogen-powered driving, technical data and services. Discover now.www.bmw.co.uk
Toyota too:
Hydrogen Cars | Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles | Toyota UK
Easy to refuel and emitting nothing but water, our Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric vehicles have the potential to revolutionise the way we drive. Find more here.
It has started. Is it not a good thing to have more options other than EV's for greener motoring in the future?
People who have ev range anxiety will have it double for hydrogen, imo.
I know I won’t buy a hydrogen vehicle.
That might be the case, but as a prospective buyer, you do not get access to the Tesla App and because of that, no access to 3rd party apps that access details not available within the Tesla App.
You have to buy the car to get immediate access to the phone/website Tesla App. This is delayed if you buy used, immediately on delivery if you buy directly from Tesla.
The range depicted by the Tesla app or the top left hand of the screen if selected to show miles instead of percentage is based off the battery power available/ EPA rated consumption.
If you want a range based off actual consumption, that is under the energy app in the car. That is limited by at most the last 30 miles driven, but that range estimate is based off actual consumption.
My Model 3 has always shown a range of 353 miles based off the tesla app/top of the screen display which was its EPA-rated range despite my lifetime consumption being 215 wh/mile which is below/better than the EPA-rated consumption. If that was displaying an estimate based off actual, it would be showing higher than 353 miles.
The estimated percentage on arrival by the nav is based off actual consumption.
Tesla is a giant mess in figuring out which is using which and what to go off of. It's why the advice is to have it display percentage instead of miles on the app/top left hand of the screen as that is more accurate.
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yep, and as I mentioned before, Shell closed their stations in California a few months ago ...
This is now how I understand it. The % in the App and % in the left frame (visualization side) on mine match my actual usage. Unless my driving pattern matches EPA (doubt it with NY winters), I get home with the % on the top left matching my GPS expected % at completion of my trip.
Now, the formula between % and miles, maybe you are right, but I've still seen miles remaining match the infotainment screen match what my driving habit. But I could be wrong...
EDIT: You are correct. It is because I use the % and not the mileage on the infotainment screen. % is accurate, but the mileage calculation is based off the EPA as you said. Driving range = miles:
Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla
Understand energy consumption and things you can do to improve range.
www.tesla.com
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Percent is accurate. I never was disputing that hence the recommendation is to always leave it on percent. That is displaying actual power left by percentage of the battery and will decrease by your actual consumption.
If you change it to miles, that is where it will be inaccurate.
I am a bit more open minded on this and there are still a vocal majority out there who think EV’s won’t go anywhere and that is part of the problem with the market segment at the moment. People like you and me who drive EV’s see some of the benefits but many are voting with their wallets and not giving it the chance. It’ll come down to cost and convenience and if some of the big players gamble on hydrogen as they are, it’ll be the market that decides.
I think hydrogen and EV’s are comparable on range (400 miles approx), but an advantage hydrogen has is the refuel time. It’s the same as an ICE vehicle. The EV market needs to solve this as 20 minutes for a supercharger will not be viable if hypothetically everybody chooses EV’s. It’s fine at the moment as a fraction of the overall number of motorists drive EV’s, so there is no congestion at chargers.
I think we’ll see these technologies go head to head along with ICE and hybrids sharing this space.
Actually the interest has shifted to Hybrids, which are a far better solution in today's world and the near future. They take advantage of old and new infrastructure, none of the charging anxiety never charge a plug in hybrid and the hybrid system still works fine. Many just look at the range on electric only and completely miss the the point.It does seem that the car industry slump continues and the latest bit of bad news is Tesla laying off 10% of its global workforce.
Tesla lays off more than 10% of its workforce
Owner Elon Musk said it was a difficult decision to reduce Tesla's global headcount.www.bbc.co.uk
It is no secret the resistance of the domestic consumer snubbing EV's is definitely having an impact on the sector. Now with Tesla announcing their biggest decline in 4 years, it makes you wonder if countries will slow down on building EV infrastructures. BMW seem intent on dropping out of the EV sector altogether and claim to be the first company to make a hydrogen fuel cell viable for the consumer market. Just for discussion, I do wonder if in a few years the market will shift towards hydrogen and zero carbon fuels as the likes of BMW, Audi and Toyota are hinting that these will be the future. For me, I want the most efficient and easy to run car I can get. We have an EV right now as our main family car, but if a more viable technology comes in at a price point and spec that suits us, we would change with no issue.
I think the advantage hydrogen cells have is the 4 minute refuel time. This puts it on a convenience level with combustion engine refuelling and the range is comparable from the off. This sort of thing will get a lot more attention from those sceptical of EV's currently. The next hurdle will be price. The big criticism I see a lot is the higher spec'ed EV's are £50/£60k+. People expect to pick up a 3 or 4 year old BMW for £25K-£35K and do with ICE's, but this isn't translating to EV's yet.
Food for thought anyway.
Industry, wanting to suck up as much government money as possible always pitch solutions several generations ahead of where we are today to luddites controlling purse strings. They never talk cradle to grave analysis or system capacity to sustain production of say batteries as one example. EV sales nosedived in US after one large storm paralyzed charging infrastructure and media did their thing. Those driving hybrids and Gas vehicles had no issues.
I guess you have to define where the tailpipe is because pollution, toxic waste, environmental damage, corruption and labor exploitation from Ev production is spread all over the world, except of course in neighborhoods where most owners live.🤨
So, in the NY area, we have bridges/bridge levels/tunnels that you're not allowed to use with compressed gas tanks. Don't Hydrogen vehicles fall under that classification? I can't imagine having a passenger vehicle that I would have to monitor which bridge/bridge level/tunnel I use, especially in the North East USA.
