Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[I7guy]

Well considering this in the public domain it’s not opaque Time to haggle and play dealers off against each other. Nice.

In the no-haggle model this would be long delivery times for the BTO on the website and a nicely filled section of “immediately” available vehicles.

Yes you can do that. But this type of stuff is why the dealership model not transparent (you have to be lucky enough to find this out) and takes way too much time and energy and one never knows if they got a “good deal”.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I don’t think I have ever bought a car from a main dealer or independent garage and not haggled on the price. They expect it to some degree and are open to the discussion. At the least you walk away with upgrades and free servicing and more for your part exchange.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I don’t think I have ever bought a car from a main dealer or independent garage and not haggled on the price. They expect it to some degree and are open to the discussion. At the least you walk away with upgrades and free servicing and more for your part exchange.

Car mats and a full tank of petrol at the very least (not so useful for an EV).

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Car mats and a full tank of petrol at the very least (not so useful for an EV).

Indeed. I’ve always had the mentality that I don’t owe the tyre kickers (sales people) anything, and they are there to work hard for my business, so I make sure they squirm and give me as much extra as they can lol. I’ve had mats, upgraded alloys, service plans and money off over the years. I’m still using some of the Autoglym kit I had with a BMW about 8 years ago where I talked them into giving me a £200 aftercare package for free amongst other things. You don’t get anything unless you put pressure on

 

[4sallypat]

Does the Tesla Supercharger version (V2, V3, V4) handle different rates of charge depending on another EV parked next to you ?

I ask because some Tesla drivers say that they like to space their Teslas every other space to get the full charge rate ?

When I pulled into a Tesla SC with my Ford EV, a Tesla driver said that I am "lucky" to block 2 spaces for 1 charger due to my vehicle's charge port.

He said I would get the full charge rate because I was taking up 2 spaces for 1 charger - didn't know if that was sarcastic or being helpful...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Does the Tesla Supercharger version (V2, V3, V4) handle different rates of charge depending on another EV parked next to you ?

I ask because some Tesla drivers say that they like to space their Teslas every other space to get the full charge rate ?

When I pulled into a Tesla SC with my Ford EV, a Tesla driver said that I am "lucky" to block 2 spaces for 1 charger due to my vehicle's charge port.

He said I would get the full charge rate because I was taking up 2 spaces for 1 charger - didn't know if that was sarcastic or being helpful...

View attachment 2368079

Most chargers work that way. Always leave a space between chargers if you can. How much they drop will depend on many factors.

 

[quagmire]

Does the Tesla Supercharger version (V2, V3, V4) handle different rates of charge depending on another EV parked next to you ?

I ask because some Tesla drivers say that they like to space their Teslas every other space to get the full charge rate ?

When I pulled into a Tesla SC with my Ford EV, a Tesla driver said that I am "lucky" to block 2 spaces for 1 charger due to my vehicle's charge port.

He said I would get the full charge rate because I was taking up 2 spaces for 1 charger - didn't know if that was sarcastic or being helpful...

View attachment 2368079

V2's and earlier share powerbanks.

So if you plug in at 2A and someone plugs into 2B, they share power thus reduce your charging rate.

Hence if the station isn't busy and if able to at V2's don't take 2B if someone is at 2A. Some stations make it easy and 2A and 2B are next to each other. Other times 3A can be between 2A and 2B so it isn't always the plug next to each other.

V3's and above don't share power so it is fine to plug into 2A while someone is on 2B. Can tell between V2 and V3 by the max charge rate listed. V2's are 150 kw and V3's are 250 kw.

 

[JT2002TJ]

V2's and earlier share powerbanks.

So if you plug in at 2A and someone plugs into 2B, they share power thus reduce your charging rate.

Hence if the station isn't busy and if able to at V2's don't take 2B if someone is at 2A. Some stations make it easy and 2A and 2B are next to each other. Other times 3A can be between 2A and 2B so it isn't always the plug next to each other.

V3's and above don't share power so it is fine to plug into 2A while someone is on 2B. Can tell between V2 and V3 by the max charge rate listed. V2's are 150 kw and V3's are 250 kw.

This is the truth…

 

[4sallypat]

V2's and earlier share powerbanks.

So if you plug in at 2A and someone plugs into 2B, they share power thus reduce your charging rate.

Hence if the station isn't busy and if able to at V2's don't take 2B if someone is at 2A. Some stations make it easy and 2A and 2B are next to each other. Other times 3A can be between 2A and 2B so it isn't always the plug next to each other.

V3's and above don't share power so it is fine to plug into 2A while someone is on 2B. Can tell between V2 and V3 by the max charge rate listed. V2's are 150 kw and V3's are 250 kw.

Good to hear!

Sort of happy that Tesla won't allow Ford & Rivian to charge at V2 chargers.

Our on board Ford charging app only shows Tesla V3 and V4 only locations - the V2 are hidden from us...

 

[Tagbert]

Good to hear!

Sort of happy that Tesla won't allow Ford & Rivian to charge at V2 chargers.

Our on board Ford charging app only shows Tesla V3 and V4 only locations - the V2 are hidden from us...

V2s are from before Tesla implemented CCS protocol. Even with a plug adaptor, a Ford or Rivian would not be able to talk to the charger because of incompatible software protocols.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Well considering this in the public domain it’s not opaque Time to haggle and play dealers off against each other. Nice.

In the no-haggle model this would be long delivery times for the BTO on the website and a nicely filled section of “immediately” available vehicles.

It is opaque because the customer cannot believe the MSRP. It is a lie because there are often "dealer incentives" that are under the table kickbacks and payments. Bait and switch.

You like to haggle. We get it. Maybe it is better in your part of the world. It sucks in the US for the vast majority of customers. I don't know a single human that likes the process here. I am sure there are some, but a small percentage of the population.

Keep haggling. You can have it. I won't be going back to it, as long as Tesla, Rivian, and others give me a haggle-free option. Same for most folks I know.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It is opaque because the customer cannot believe the MSRP. It is a lie because there are often "dealer incentives" that are under the table kickbacks and payments. Bait and switch.

You like to haggle. We get it. Maybe it is better in your part of the world. It sucks in the US for the vast majority of customers. I don't know a single human that likes the process here. I am sure there are some, but a small percentage of the population.

Keep haggling. You can have it. I won't be going back to it, as long as Tesla, Rivian, and others give me a haggle-free option. Same for most folks I know.

I love customers like you 👍

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It does seem that the car industry slump continues and the latest bit of bad news is Tesla laying off 10% of its global workforce.

Tesla lays off more than 10% of its workforce

Owner Elon Musk said it was a difficult decision to reduce Tesla's global headcount.

www.bbc.co.uk

It is no secret the resistance of the domestic consumer snubbing EV's is definitely having an impact on the sector. Now with Tesla announcing their biggest decline in 4 years, it makes you wonder if countries will slow down on building EV infrastructures. BMW seem intent on dropping out of the EV sector altogether and claim to be the first company to make a hydrogen fuel cell viable for the consumer market. Just for discussion, I do wonder if in a few years the market will shift towards hydrogen and zero carbon fuels as the likes of BMW, Audi and Toyota are hinting that these will be the future. For me, I want the most efficient and easy to run car I can get. We have an EV right now as our main family car, but if a more viable technology comes in at a price point and spec that suits us, we would change with no issue.

I think the advantage hydrogen cells have is the 4 minute refuel time. This puts it on a convenience level with combustion engine refuelling and the range is comparable from the off. This sort of thing will get a lot more attention from those sceptical of EV's currently. The next hurdle will be price. The big criticism I see a lot is the higher spec'ed EV's are £50/£60k+. People expect to pick up a 3 or 4 year old BMW for £25K-£35K and do with ICE's, but this isn't translating to EV's yet.

Food for thought anyway.

 

[I7guy]

It does seem that the car industry slump continues and the latest bit of bad news is Tesla laying off 10% of its global workforce.

Tesla lays off more than 10% of its workforce

Owner Elon Musk said it was a difficult decision to reduce Tesla's global headcount.

www.bbc.co.uk

It is no secret the resistance of the domestic consumer snubbing EV's is definitely having an impact on the sector. Now with Tesla announcing their biggest decline in 4 years, it makes you wonder if countries will slow down on building EV infrastructures. BMW seem intent on dropping out of the EV sector altogether and claim to be the first company to make a hydrogen fuel cell viable for the consumer market. Just for discussion, I do wonder if in a few years the market will shift towards hydrogen and zero carbon fuels as the likes of BMW, Audi and Toyota are hinting that these will be the future. For me, I want the most efficient and easy to run car I can get. We have an EV right now as our main family car, but if a more viable technology comes in at a price point and spec that suits us, we would change with no issue.

I think the advantage hydrogen cells have is the 4 minute refuel time. This puts it on a convenience level with combustion engine refuelling and the range is comparable from the off. This sort of thing will get a lot more attention from those sceptical of EV's currently. The next hurdle will be price. The big criticism I see a lot is the higher spec'ed EV's are £50/£60k+. People expect to pick up a 3 or 4 year old BMW for £25K-£35K and do with ICE's, but this isn't translating to EV's yet.

Food for thought anyway.

It’s my opinion the market at least in the US will recover. Tesla is coming out with updates and new models. Other manufacturers as well. I don’t see hydrogen ever taking off in any great consumer quantity. As fast as demand backed off demand could rise again.

 

[jz0309]

It does seem that the car industry slump continues and the latest bit of bad news is Tesla laying off 10% of its global workforce.

Tesla lays off more than 10% of its workforce

Owner Elon Musk said it was a difficult decision to reduce Tesla's global headcount.

www.bbc.co.uk

It is no secret the resistance of the domestic consumer snubbing EV's is definitely having an impact on the sector. Now with Tesla announcing their biggest decline in 4 years, it makes you wonder if countries will slow down on building EV infrastructures. BMW seem intent on dropping out of the EV sector altogether and claim to be the first company to make a hydrogen fuel cell viable for the consumer market. Just for discussion, I do wonder if in a few years the market will shift towards hydrogen and zero carbon fuels as the likes of BMW, Audi and Toyota are hinting that these will be the future. For me, I want the most efficient and easy to run car I can get. We have an EV right now as our main family car, but if a more viable technology comes in at a price point and spec that suits us, we would change with no issue.

I think the advantage hydrogen cells have is the 4 minute refuel time. This puts it on a convenience level with combustion engine refuelling and the range is comparable from the off. This sort of thing will get a lot more attention from those sceptical of EV's currently. The next hurdle will be price. The big criticism I see a lot is the higher spec'ed EV's are £50/£60k+. People expect to pick up a 3 or 4 year old BMW for £25K-£35K and do with ICE's, but this isn't translating to EV's yet.

Food for thought anyway.

Toyota has been offering the Mirai for 6 or so years, very limited success I would say as fuel stations are very limited, Southern California was one area, and Shell a few months ago closed all of their stations in California. So, for the US at least, I do not see a future with hydrogen ... other markets might differ.

As for the EV market overall, maybe surprising, maybe not, the whole auto market has been in turmoil since the pandemic and I believe the market will shake itself out in time. Big oil and some car manufacturers (Toyota comes to mind) have certainly stirred the pot on doubts about EVs, but I don't see that lasting much longer either.
Where the industry failed imho is/was the focus on high-end EVs, GM had a front runner with the Bolt but they decided to build Escalades, Hummers, Silverados that are in the 100k range, and Tesla would have been better off getting a Model 2 vs the Cybertruck, but we are where we are ...

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think the general market is struggling because of the economy etc.
But also agree too many expensive EV’s are being made. Lower priced affordable cars are what most people need.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The US market isn’t really a benchmark for global automotive direction though, it’s so unique and almost standalone in terms of technology, efficiency and preferences. If the German manufacturers and Japanese choose to move away from EV’s, this doesn’t mean Tesla will just ride it out everywhere. The big thing is if adoption doesn’t start increasing soon, we could see a halt to infrastructure evolution and funding not going towards this, not necessarily in North America, but Europe and Asia. It’s already not moving fast enough and with BMW moving away from producing EV’s in the long term, they are a big enough player in Europe to influence. A BMW 3 Series is one of the most common cars on British and European roads and they have a huge influence in the market.

I’m pro EV as you all know, but I think it’s realistic to also consider the industry could suddenly drive in another direction (excuse the pun), if it’s cheaper and more appealing to the consumer.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The US market isn’t really a benchmark for global automotive direction though, it’s so unique and almost standalone in terms of technology, efficiency and preferences. If the German manufacturers and Japanese choose to move away from EV’s, this doesn’t mean Tesla will just ride it out everywhere. The big thing is if adoption doesn’t start increasing soon, we could see a halt to infrastructure evolution and funding not going towards this, not necessarily in North America, but Europe and Asia. It’s already not moving fast enough and with BMW moving away from producing EV’s in the long term, they are a big enough player in Europe to influence. A BMW 3 Series is one of the most common cars on British and European roads and they have a huge influence in the market.

I’m pro EV as you all know, but I think it’s realistic to also consider the industry could suddenly drive in another direction (excuse the pun), if it’s cheaper and more appealing to the consumer.

I think we are going to have several different technologies running parallel for at least a decade.
EV’s, hybrids, ICE and maybe hydrogen alongside each other.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think we are going to have several different technologies running parallel for at least a decade.
EV’s, hybrids, ICE and maybe hydrogen alongside each other.

I think so too, there is no way the industry is going to settle on just one type of technology. There is definitely room for multiple options for the next 30 years I would say. I know there is an agreement where ICE is going to be dropped from new car sales by 2035, but I don’t believe that will happen.

Tesla’s rise to the top is going to be short lived and now the alternatives in their market are starting to compete much more aggressively. It reminds me a bit of the smartphone race of 2008 to 2015 where innovation was fierce until it levelled into the standardised, uninteresting smartphone model we have now. Maybe cars will be packed with standardised tech and services will be more of a market than people changing their cars as often in the long term. Interesting times, but I don’t think EV’s are the future on their own. They need to create a battery that can be charged in a few minutes, that’s the next challenge.

 

[jz0309]

I think we are going to have several different technologies running parallel for at least a decade.
EV’s, hybrids, ICE and maybe hydrogen alongside each other.

agree, EU, US have decided on the 2035 goal, that might be extended, who knows. it will be interesting to see how California plays this out ...
One thing that has not happened historically (correct me if I'm wrong) is that a car manufacturer has driven an infrastructure component for an alternative fuel with the exception of Tesla, they have all looked at the government for subsidies - and we know where governments currently stand.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Is there any link to BMW getting out of the EV game? I'd be surprised if that is true with their excellent range at the moment. i4, i5, i5 Touring 🥰, i7 and then all the ix models mimicking the x series. And good prices as well.

 

[oasantos1]

Looking into buying a used Model 3...

I've seen a few in my area 2022 with about 50k miles for 20k.

Anyone have any experience with buying a used Tesla?

 

[hobowankenobi]

I love customers like you 👍

It all makes sense now. You are a car salesman.

 

[mvdrl]

Looking into buying a used Model 3...

I've seen a few in my area 2022 with about 50k miles for 20k.

Anyone have any experience with buying a used Tesla?

I bought a used Model Y a few months ago from Tesla, and privately bought a Model S last year. Both experiences were excellent. The Y was a 2022 so still had a lot of warranty left on the battery; you could see this right on the Tesla website (but could also see this on the center screen if you buy privately). I think a used Model 3 at that price is an excellent value and as long as the battery warranty is sound, you'll experience 4-5 years of trouble free very cheap driving.

My Model S is a 2014 (!) and has run like a clock with almost zero expenses in one year of ownership. But it's of course an old car and the battery could die any time... or it could run another 100,000 miles, who knows! A newer Model 3 makes a lot of sense if you can live with the range and have a place to charge at home. Good luck!

 

[hobowankenobi]

I bought a used Model Y a few months ago from Tesla, and privately bought a Model S last year. Both experiences were excellent. The Y was a 2022 so still had a lot of warranty left on the battery; you could see this right on the Tesla website (but could also see this on the center screen if you buy privately). I think a used Model 3 at that price is an excellent value and as long as the battery warranty is sound, you'll experience 4-5 years of trouble free very cheap driving.

My Model S is a 2014 (!) and has run like a clock with almost zero expenses in one year of ownership. But it's of course an old car and the battery could die any time... or it could run another 100,000 miles, who knows! A newer Model 3 makes a lot of sense if you can live with the range and have a place to charge at home. Good luck!

I would only add that checking battery health would be my single biggest question...beyond normal used car stuff.

Here is a write-up using the Tesla app...there are several third party apps that can show battery health too.