The point we were trying to make is, in the dealership model, you don't get to pay MSRP... There are additional fees on top of MSRP. You do not know these amounts when you walk into the dealership. If you do fight for MSRP, they will gladly do it, if you trade-in and/or finance as they will slip these fees into them...
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
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The point we were trying to make is, in the dealership model, you don't get to pay MSRP... There are additional fees on top of MSRP. You do not know these amounts when you walk into the dealership. If you do fight for MSRP, they will gladly do it, if you trade-in and/or finance as they will slip these fees into them...
Wouldn't the monthly service fee for a vehicle you don't own but use for a term be leasing?
Not really, I would like to see more manufacturer involvement and that they also offer already used products as a service. The lifespan of cars will get a lot shorter if the manufacturer only makes money at the point of sale just as with some phone manufacturers. If products are offered as a service and by the manufacturer (who makes money from it every month) they have an interest in providing updates and servicing the products.
Yea you are right, its a kind of leasing. But I would like to take the leasing company out of the equation if it isn't run by the manufacturer. But maybe its possible to take leasing one step further or widen it. Today its mostly new cars, would like to see used cars being offered as lease as well and that more things such as insurance, service, tires, MOT as a part of the lease/service. I know sometimes its included but not always.
In this aspect, this is what manufacturer financed leases are... They still own the vehicle, and upon return at the end of the lease have the ability to sell it. Many offer extended warranties for a price on top of the Certified Pre-Owned warranty (or whatever they call it).
So, instead of selling the car, and only having to support it for the factory warranty, they have a second set of customers (like myself who only buys used) that they need to support.
Unless you mean, continued leasing, like instead of selling the vehicle at the end of the lease as CPO, they offer a second layer of leasing, or indefinitely extend the initial lease? If so, that actually would be a cool idea...
This is a cool idea. I stand behind this 100%... A secondary lease and/or indefinite extension of the initial lease. I mean I do know a few people who lease because they don't want to deal with owning, but also turn cars in with very very low mileage because the lease is up. They would continue it, if it would just continue.
During the pandemic there were a lot of lease extensions, since new vehicles weren't available. But they were set time periods.
This is cool for the customer, but I see it as an overall loss for the vehicle manufacturer. Most of the dealer models rely on vehicles becoming out of warranty as their service centers keep them going.
EDIT: With the increase in vehicle costs, and the longer loan terms offered today (60, 72), I think at a minimum manufacturers should extend bumper to bumper warranties to the longer terms with total miles assuming the average miles per year. You are making them more expensive, causing people to have to take out longer loans to be able to afford them, at least stand behind your product for that time. Leasing would be less desirable if you could buy and have the warranty the entire time you are paying.
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I will as soon as I win the lotto... I like where it is going, but it is unobtanium to me...
Ah ok, I think we do have a mix of leasing companies and offers where i'm from. But what you describe sounds like a bit what I am after.
Basically my take is that if a company can make revenue on a product on a monthly basis and keep doing so its in their interest to keep the product alive.
Its a bit like iPhones, Apple are making more and more money from services that's consumed on the devices, that's why we are getting fairly long (not long enough) support on them with updates and so on.
Another idea is a forced subscription model if you buy a car that goes to the manufacturer so that they can provide updates to the car. That goes for both HW and SW.
A good example is that cars that now only have 2G and 3G modems then would be offered an update to 4G or 5G. Currently we might have a heaps of cars not passing MOT due to that they on-call service isn't working when the 2G and 3G network is being shut down.
I'm kind of surprised no one here has one (or a Lucid or a Rivian). Used models haven't come down in price to comfortable territory yet. Plus it is difficult knowing the newer models get faster charging at lower battery temps and that feature isn't coming to the older cars.
i'm more if a honda E, Fiat 500 or Mini kinda guy....
But I am interested in the new Cupra Born that's been updated (Based on ID3)
Here in the US, financing is typically handled by the financing division of the auto manufacturer.
For the subscription model, companies tried that, and got shut down, like BMW charging a fee to use CarPlay. People don't like knowing the features are already included but have to pay extra monthly to use them...
It is easy enough for Tesla and other EV manufacturers to put features behind subscriptions. Tesla does that with their FSD. You can buy a lifetime subscription (for that vehicle) or pay $200 per month for the subscription. Putting perceived value to the side, they are doing it today.
Tesla (and I'm sure newer EV companies will) offers retrofit kits for their vehicles. You can upgrade your autopilot computer and add cameras (if you have the older Tesla). I have added the power lift trunk to my Model 3, CCS compatibility to my Model 3, Biodefense Hepa filter to my Model Y. I have also upgraded components to newer redesigned parts like the driver's side wiper arm on the Model 3, revised side repeater cameras, and added SiriusXM to my Model Y.
Since Tesla uses individual computers for their components, I can see them offering upgrades from 4G to 5G once 4G is no longer available. For a fee...
There are lots of Rivians around me in the NYC area, I've only see a couple Lucids. The problem with Rivian is there aren't enough service centers for the average person to take the risk today. Lucid was priced too high, and has some reported charging speed issues. But I am a big fan of both.
Yes the only negative I could find was the speed assist and safety attention systems that are just annoying. But not even that is their fault as any car designed after 2022 within the EU needs to have those systems.
I really like it. About €30K less than a Volvo EX90. About €40K less than a TMX and so much better but to be fair on the TMX that is an old design now. And in my market there is no Rivian and this no further competition until Range Rover comes to market but I think that will be at least €250K.
Only if they sort the rear seating like it is in the Panemera. The seating is too uncomfortable and upright. I couldn’t do that to my children.
Only if they sort the rear seating like it is in the Panemera. The seating is too uncomfortable and upright. I couldn’t do that to my children.
I’d be interested in Rivian if it was available in my area. Lucid is but I really don’t like the styling of their cars.
Fisker Ocean has slashed their prices to $25K !
They are at the value they should have been. In Europe they've only slashed the prices for prebuilt models. I was tempted enough to look, but didn't like any of the prebuilt configs. But also considering their bankruptcy I'm a bit wary, you even need a service technician to change the 12V battery and who will be left to do that?
LOL Tesla yes again with their transparent prices; raised FSD lifetime price from $12K to $15K (still 7.5K EURO). After it was already raised from $10K to $12K. With Tesla making a clear statement that the price only goes up when the system becomes more sophisticated. But then last year dropped the price again to $12K and subscription at $199. And boom now dropped the prices by half. Only $99 now...
I guess its a good thing, except for those who believed that man...
I guess its a good thing, except for those who believed that man...
A risky buy though with the limited support that comes with it while Fisker fights for survival.
Nice looking cars, but the limited launches one car has and the original higher pricing I think did this brand no favours.
The pricing hasn’t dropped. The pricing is only for pre build cars. BTO is still at an inflated price.
In my opinion the Fisker Ocean Extreme is still way too expensive. It feels so cheap, terrible flat seats, very plasticky, and yes software limitations to how you can use the car. Yet again a missed opportunity for Fisker.
Here's a perfect example of how the dealership model in the US makes pricing opaque. Dealerships get an incentive...and they might pass some on to the buyer (if you are a good haggler). In the no-haggle model, this would simply be lowered prices for the customer.
The pundits would yell about demand issues, but the buyers just snap up the good deal.
The pundits would yell about demand issues, but the buyers just snap up the good deal.
Well considering this in the public domain it’s not opaque
Time to haggle and play dealers off against each other. Nice. In the no-haggle model this would be long delivery times for the BTO on the website and a nicely filled section of “immediately” available vehicles.