Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

I wasn’t comparing internationally using two different prices. You are just shifting the goal posts to try and make it stick whilst what you reacted to made no sense. And you are still missing the point that relatively that doesn’t matter. Yes Singapore is an expensive car country, although due to different pressures then a UK, and different again then a Netherlands. And as is a Germany which is in the EU next to the Netherlands. Australia is similar, but the origin of the car has a role to play as well. And you can’t buy the car without tax. Only USA presents cars without tax, but even then that doesn’t represent the true global value that represents the price they are willing to sell in your market. As such that has no bearing on what you are suggesting and provides no comparison. That price is determined based on all sorts of other factors.

Conparing internationally just doesn’t work. Comparing against what else is available on one’s own market does work. And that is exactly what I did.

Besides you state yourself that never buy new. You don’t even buy in that segment. Yet you seem to know everything about it when it comes down to Tesla 🤷‍♂️🤣

I do a lot of research before I buy. I had to decide if the used from Tesla prices were worth it against the tax credit of a new purchase. I bought 2 in the last year and a half. So I do have a little experience with Tesla. I also keep up on the current Tesla New/Used pricing (which changes like the stock market).

The point you keep missing is that you are complaining about the interior of a car for the price you can buy it at. This is what I take issue with and the original goal post I was discussing (which hasn’t changed). It is irrelevant that we are discussing Tesla, Toyota, or any other maker. Because you have to pay excessive duties on a vehicle does not change the class of the vehicle. You can not compare a $90k vehicle interior to a $160k interior, then say the quality of the $90k vehicle is not on par with the $160k vehicle. There are different duties for US vehicles vs German vehicles to you. A Jeep wrangler is not in the same class as a Range Rover, even if they maybe priced the same to you (or similar).

Tesla Model S and X are not luxury vehicles. The current price to you is only similar because of duties, not materials used. I’ll repeat it, it is in the same price range BECAUSE of your duties. Not by vehicle design and pricing from the manufacturer.

You can’t blame Tesla/Toyota/Honda/MB for your duties… If you want to complain, complain about the duties you have to pay on a $90k vehicle. Not that the vehicle costs more than the real MSRP.

I will leave it at that.

 

[decafjava]

I just wanted to post this as I live in Geneva and the Geneva Motor Show was one of the more well-known events. I have only been once (maybe twice) in 2017. Of course Covid was a big blow but other shows in Munich and Beijing will continue and this show will move to .... Qatar.

Geneva Motor Show ends

Official site

 

[jz0309]

I just wanted to post this as I live in Geneva and the Geneva Motor Show was one of the more well-known events. I have only been once (maybe twice) in 2017. Of course Covid was a big blow but other shows in Munich and Beijing will continue and this show will move to .... Qatar.

Geneva Motor Show ends

Official site

Qatar - there's more money!
And I suppose no more EVs will be shown there

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I do a lot of research before I buy. I had to decide if the used from Tesla prices were worth it against the tax credit of a new purchase. I bought 2 in the last year and a half. So I do have a little experience with Tesla. I also keep up on the current Tesla New/Used pricing (which changes like the stock market).

The point you keep missing is that you are complaining about the interior of a car for the price you can buy it at. This is what I take issue with and the original goal post I was discussing (which hasn’t changed). It is irrelevant that we are discussing Tesla, Toyota, or any other maker. Because you have to pay excessive duties on a vehicle does not change the class of the vehicle. You can not compare a $90k vehicle interior to a $160k interior, then say the quality of the $90k vehicle is not on par with the $160k vehicle. There are different duties for US vehicles vs German vehicles to you. A Jeep wrangler is not in the same class as a Range Rover, even if they maybe priced the same to you (or similar).

Tesla Model S and X are not luxury vehicles. The current price to you is only similar because of duties, not materials used. I’ll repeat it, it is in the same price range BECAUSE of your duties. Not by vehicle design and pricing from the manufacturer.

You can’t blame Tesla/Toyota/Honda/MB for your duties… If you want to complain, complain about the duties you have to pay on a $90k vehicle. Not that the vehicle costs more than the real MSRP.

I will leave it at that.

Oh man the defensive and excuses for Tesla is unreal.

And no a Jeep and Range Rover aren’t even close in the same price range. Sorry, nice story but just not true.

When prices are similar enough ofcourse it’s normal to be compared in all area. But clearly no critical word ever against Tesla for you. 🤷‍♂️

 

[JT2002TJ]

Oh man the defensive and excuses for Tesla is unreal.

And no a Jeep and Range Rover aren’t even close in the same price range. Sorry, nice story but just not true.

When prices are similar enough ofcourse it’s normal to be compared in all area. But clearly no critical word ever against Tesla for you. 🤷‍♂️

Sorry, I meant to type Land Rover.

You keep missing the point. It has NOTHING to do with Tesla. Once again, it is in the way you knock the interior of vehicles in different classes. They are only comparable in prices BECAUSE of your import/local duties not by the manufactures intended selling price. Tesla was only an example of the issue. This is why we do not include duties/taxes in the pricing discussions in the US.

If Tesla had the interior of a $160k price tag for their TMS/X once duties/taxes were added where you are it would be almost $200k. Instead, it is a $70k vehicle that because of your taxes is in the $160k price range (you said it was this price range).

It would be disingenuous to then spend time insulting the interior saying it isn't a $160k interior. It wasn't intended to have a $160k interior...

There is a difference between saying you don't like something for the price, and then repetitively knocking a manufacture saying they didn't do enough, when the only reason they are priced this high is your local duties.

TMS/X are starting around $70k - $90k Plaid, it is not Tesla's fault that any other country has it listed higher. Just like I can't blame BYD saying it is a cheap interior because if I imported it in the US, it would be 2x+ the MSRP (because of our taxes on Chinese vehicles).

But, lets just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Well, the EU hit out against China. For those of us inside the EU best get your order in quick for excellent cars from Polestar, Volvo, Zeekr, Lotus, and BYD.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-impose-multi-billion-euro-tariffs-chinese-evs-ft-reports-2024-06-12/

Tesla, being a USA company, and with a Giga Factory inside the EU for the 3 and Y, is not now, and wasn't subjected to that in the past @JT2002TJ (just standard taxes like any other car hence my repeated comment that it is comparable). But could be liable for models that are imported from China.

I think it is a real shame as there are some seriously good cars that become near impossible to sell. I know I wouldn't buy a Polestar again if it becomes approximately 38% pricier.

 

[diamond.g]

Well, the EU hit out against China. For those of us inside the EU best get your order in quick for excellent cars from Polestar, Volvo, Zeekr, Lotus, and BYD.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-impose-multi-billion-euro-tariffs-chinese-evs-ft-reports-2024-06-12/

Tesla, being a USA company, and with a Giga Factory inside the EU for the 3 and Y, is not now, and wasn't subjected to that in the past @JT2002TJ (just standard taxes like any other car hence my repeated comment that it is comparable). But could be liable for models that are imported from China.

I think it is a real shame as there are some seriously good cars that become near impossible to sell. I know I wouldn't buy a Polestar again if it becomes approximately 38% pricier.

Giga Berlin makes Model 3's for the EU now? I thought it was only the Y and the 3's came from Giga Shanghai?

 

[danny_w]

Giga Berlin makes Model 3's for the EU now? I thought it was only the Y and the 3's came from Giga Shanghai?

Tesla expects to raise price of China-made cars in EU after duty increase — Reuters

Tesla (TSLA.O) expects to increase the price of its Model 3 because of European Union import duties on electric vehicles (EVs) made in China, the carmaker said on its website on Thursday.

apple.news

 

[wonderings]

I did not mind using the one pedal for driving and regen breaking on the demo of the Y that I had, but I was left wondering if I wanted to could I change it to act more like a traditional gas guzzling car? I am mainly thinking of winter and dealing with heavy snow and black ice where using actual breaks would probably be better, especially with ABS.

 

[Tagbert]

I did not mind using the one pedal for driving and regen breaking on the demo of the Y that I had, but I was left wondering if I wanted to could I change it to act more like a traditional gas guzzling car? I am mainly thinking of winter and dealing with heavy snow and black ice where using actual breaks would probably be better, especially with ABS.

You can still press the brake pedal to stop in those situations.

 

[wonderings]

You can still press the brake pedal to stop in those situations.

Yes I know I can do that with the brake pedal, but can I turn off the regen when I release the gas so it more coasts like you would if you just left off the gas pedal in a normal car?

 

[jz0309]

Yes I know I can do that with the brake pedal, but can I turn off the regen when I release the gas so it more coasts like you would if you just left off the gas pedal in a normal car?

no, Tesla has one pedal mode only.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Nice trip to see my friends. Charged at IONITY as the free one at the hotel was broken. No biggie. £14 for a weekend away is a lot less than the petrol alternative.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Yes I know I can do that with the brake pedal, but can I turn off the regen when I release the gas so it more coasts like you would if you just left off the gas pedal in a normal car?

So far in 1.5 years of 1 pedal driving, without the ability to switch to traditional 2 pedal, I have not had any issues with snow/ice/rain. The key is you will need to ensure your tires are in optimal condition (don't wait to get that last 5k miles out of a set of tires) and don't completely let off the fun pedal. You want to learn to slow down, or coast by feathering the pedal.

When you want to coast, all you have to do is hold the pedal steady. You get used to it very quickly.

The mistake people make is think that you need to constantly accelerate or decelerate. Coast is holding the pedal in between accelerate and regen. After a few hours on the highway, you will learn to maintain speed. This is all you need to do when entering a snow/ice/rain issue.

Now, I maybe posting "It happened to me, I slided/hydroplaned" in the future... But so far, so good with about 15k-20k miles driven.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So far in 1.5 years of 1 pedal driving, without the ability to switch to traditional 2 pedal, I have not had any issues with snow/ice/rain. The key is you will need to ensure your tires are in optimal condition (don't wait to get that last 5k miles out of a set of tires) and don't completely let off the fun pedal. You want to learn to slow down, or coast by feathering the pedal.

When you want to coat, all you have to do is hold the pedal steady. You get used to it very quickly.

The mistake people make is think that you need to constantly accelerate or decelerate. Coast is holding the pedal in between accelerate and regen. After a few hours on the highway, you will learn to maintain speed. This is all you need to do when entering a snow/ice/rain issue.

Now, I maybe posting "It happened to me, I slide/hydroplaned" in the future... But so far, so good with about 15k-20k miles driven.

I’d agree it’s not as worrying as I thought it would be. Bear in mind my i3 is my first rear wheel drive car I thought ice would be lethal. It’s been fine.

 

[jz0309]

So far in 1.5 years of 1 pedal driving, without the ability to switch to traditional 2 pedal, I have not had any issues with snow/ice/rain. The key is you will need to ensure your tires are in optimal condition (don't wait to get that last 5k miles out of a set of tires) and don't completely let off the fun pedal. You want to learn to slow down, or coast by feathering the pedal.

When you want to coast, all you have to do is hold the pedal steady. You get used to it very quickly.

The mistake people make is think that you need to constantly accelerate or decelerate. Coast is holding the pedal in between accelerate and regen. After a few hours on the highway, you will learn to maintain speed. This is all you need to do when entering a snow/ice/rain issue.

Now, I maybe posting "It happened to me, I slided/hydroplaned" in the future... But so far, so good with about 15k-20k miles driven.

My Bolt EUV has a OPD switch, so I have the option to drive OPD or “ICE-like”. The only time I do not use OPD is pulling in and out of the garage as I feel more comfortable for the last 2 inches to controls that with the brake pedal. As soon as I get on the street I turn on OPD cause I like that mode better.
Over at the Chevy bolt forum there are plenty threads about this topic, there are some people who prefer the conventional style over OPD and getting a choice of modes is a good thing imho.
Tesla from that perspective is what it is, if you don’t like it, don’t get it.

 

[JT2002TJ]

My Bolt EUV has a OPD switch, so I have the option to drive OPD or “ICE-like”. The only time I do not use OPD is pulling in and out of the garage as I feel more comfortable for the last 2 inches to controls that with the brake pedal. As soon as I get on the street I turn on OPD cause I like that mode better.
Over at the Chevy bolt forum there are plenty threads about this topic, there are some people who prefer the conventional style over OPD and getting a choice of modes is a good thing imho.
Tesla from that perspective is what it is, if you don’t like it, don’t get it.

Does the Chevy bolt do blended braking, or does it only use friction brakes when you use the brake pedal.

For me, the only way I would go back to 2 pedals, is if when I press the brake pedal it uses regen until it isn't enough then uses the friction brakes. But in reality, I can't imagine having to move my foot over to touch a brake pedal during normal driving, it would feel like I'm stepping back in time.

I don't really use the brake pedal for stopping, just shifting when the OS requires it. Even when I back into my garage that requires some finesse and completely stopping when I make contact with a hanging tennis ball.

 

[diamond.g]

Yes I know I can do that with the brake pedal, but can I turn off the regen when I release the gas so it more coasts like you would if you just left off the gas pedal in a normal car?

You can get the feature back with the "S 3 X Y" buttons (along with a bunch of other features Tesla has hidden).

no, Tesla has one pedal mode only.

See above

Does the Chevy bolt do blended braking, or does it only use friction brakes when you use the brake pedal.

For me, the only way I would go back to 2 pedals, is if when I press the brake pedal it uses regen until it isn't enough then uses the friction brakes. But in reality, I can't imagine having to move my foot over to touch a brake pedal during normal driving, it would feel like I'm stepping back in time.

I don't really use the brake pedal for stopping, just shifting when the OS requires it. Even when I back into my garage that requires some finesse and completely stopping when I make contact with a hanging tennis ball.

Blended brakes. AFAIK only Tesla and Lucid do pure mechanical brakes when pressing the pedal.

 

[jz0309]

Does the Chevy bolt do blended braking, or does it only use friction brakes when you use the brake pedal.

For me, the only way I would go back to 2 pedals, is if when I press the brake pedal it uses regen until it isn't enough then uses the friction brakes. But in reality, I can't imagine having to move my foot over to touch a brake pedal during normal driving, it would feel like I'm stepping back in time.

I don't really use the brake pedal for stopping, just shifting when the OS requires it. Even when I back into my garage that requires some finesse and completely stopping when I make contact with a hanging tennis ball.

Yes, Bolt has blended braking so you can achieve the regen either way.
And yes, I far prefer OPD over “regular”driving style, my wife is the opposite

 

[JT2002TJ]

Yes, Bolt has blended braking so you can achieve the regen either way.
And yes, I far prefer OPD over “regular”driving style, my wife is the opposite

My wife did not want to switch to an EV. I didn't give her a choice, as I was getting a TMY and my TM3 was going to be hers. She LOVES it, and is the type of person who quickly gets accustomed to something and forgets that not everything is the same. She loves not having to use the brake pedal (now).

She kicks and screams when I force her to get a newer iPhone the same way, then a week later she tries to tell me why the new item is better than the old lol. That's when I know she's all in. A month in, she was ordering Telsa accessories for her car that I didn't even know about...

She doesn't do well with going back to older tech. She would be the one leaving the ICE running and unlocked all day after being used to an EV with walkaway locks, or the person who hits a car expecting the Tesla level of regen.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Giga Berlin makes Model 3's for the EU now? I thought it was only the Y and the 3's came from Giga Shanghai?

Tesla expects to raise price of China-made cars in EU after duty increase — Reuters

Tesla (TSLA.O) expects to increase the price of its Model 3 because of European Union import duties on electric vehicles (EVs) made in China, the carmaker said on its website on Thursday.

apple.news

My bad, I could have sworn the highland was made in Berlin, but clearly not.

Tesla now put the warning on the website as well. One had got to get a June delivery as otherwise per 1st July the price will go up. At the moment the RWD version also is in the tax credit bracket which means that in June one can get it for €39K in the Netherlands, but from July it could go up by 38.1%.

I guess TMY, will regain the most sold car trophy again as that is definitely from the Berlin factory.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I did not mind using the one pedal for driving and regen breaking on the demo of the Y that I had, but I was left wondering if I wanted to could I change it to act more like a traditional gas guzzling car? I am mainly thinking of winter and dealing with heavy snow and black ice where using actual breaks would probably be better, especially with ABS.

With Polestar (Volvo) you can do that. It has a blended brake setup. You have multiple settings for one pedal driving, yet you can also coast whilst in one pedal driving model, but can also switch off one pedal driving completely. And then in addition, you can also choose whether you want the creep on or off, like those old-fashioned torque converter automatics. But, as you say, actually helpful in the snow and such condition. Combined with the excellent AWD system, it is superb in the snow. Normally, I drive with full on OPD. But we had some occasions where I just switched that off, enabled creep, and just put the car in gear and let it find its path through the slippery stuff. Very impressive.

The Polestar 2 is out now, but the 3 (SUV) and 4 (Super saloon) are starting shipping from August.

 

[Student of Life]

Before you buy a Tesla, take a look at the Ford Mustang Mach E GT

We have had ours since last November and absolutely love this car. It’s the best car I have ever owned!

It's not a bad car but when you factor in the tax credits, it makes the Model Y just so much more attractive and affordable but everyone has different preferences. Thats not even touching dealing with the dealerships which some people hate while others like.

 

[wonderings]

Went out with the boss to test drive another Y Long range that is basically new, 2024 model with 9K on the odometer. They have a chevy equinox EV as well so we gave it a drive as well. Night and day difference, especially where performance is concerned. The Chevy was not even in close performance wise. The Chevy was way too busy inside as well, this is a personal preference, I can see people liking the multi screens and turbines for air/con. Much more aggressive exterior look for sure. The only non Tesla EV I have ever tried. Certainly felt more like a traditional car inside.

 

[JT2002TJ]

View attachment 2389729 Went out with the boss to test drive another Y Long range that is basically new, 2024 model with 9K on the odometer. They have a chevy equinox EV as well so we gave it a drive as well. Night and day difference, especially where performance is concerned. The Chevy was not even in close performance wise. The Chevy was way too busy inside as well, this is a personal preference, I can see people liking the multi screens and turbines for air/con. Much more aggressive exterior look for sure. The only non Tesla EV I have ever tried. Certainly felt more like a traditional car inside.

The Long Range TM3/Y are rocket ships, especially with Acceleration Boost (there are reports of some of the newer LR versions missing the option to buy AB). I like the minimalist interior only because the Tesla UI is so good that you really don't need to interact much (cloud profiles, auto climate control), and really only use the screen to view the visualizations and maps.

I've had 2 Tesla for a year now (the 3 for a year and a half, the Y for a year), my experience has slightly improved every couple of months (regular updates) and significantly improved 2 times a year (Spring and holiday updates). These have been the only vehicles I've owned that I liked from day 1, and like even more as time goes on.

This is the latest update, before the visualizations took up the left 1/4 of the screen, and maps took up the right 3/4. With the FSD package, you could swipe the visualizations over to take up the full screen but lost maps. Now with full screen visualizations you have an overlayed map in the top right corner. They increased the speed font size, added audible, improved auto parking speeds, added the ability to pause the trunk liftgate mid-way through on the screen, and a few other things.

To bar on the right lets you know that you can swipe left (like on the bottom of an iPhone). This was right after the update, I was testing it out, I dropped a pin and had FSD drive me there while I supervised.