I think that number is rather low, at least here in the US. Employers with a larger campus (eg 1k employees) might have it, those who are in biz parks are unlikely to have it. I’ve never seen statistics
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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I would hate it sitting in the back.Yer old fashioned!
Even in my current 3 with a window, I never use it when parking or maneuvering. Cameras are so much better.
I do use it driving, but I don't have an actual dedicated display for a rear view...or I might not. Would like to test that.
I live in Boston. Recently I paid 0.34/kwh and prices have only gone up. As I understand Massachusetts does not allow variable rate pricing for consumers, only commercial customers. This is not paying for some marked up “renewable energy” electricity service nonsense either (these supply the same power as everyone else).
The XC60 T8 ER has an 18.8kwh battery rated for about 35mi. That appears to be an accurate estimate given what I’ve read.
18.8kwh x 0.34/kwh = $6.39 per 35 miles (per battery charge).
So if I take that $6.39 and bought gas instead, let’s say the average gas price is $3.50 (it’s actually a bit lower now and last week I saw regular for $3.09 45min outside the city, I would get 1.83 gallons of gas. The B5 and B6 XC60s average 27mpg, which would mean for $6.39 you’d get 49 miles of range.
Yes- the car probably not utilizing 100% of the battery, but there’s also inefficiencies on the charging end. Even assuming 15kwh of usable battery, the math still comes out to 39 miles of range. Cold weather likely diminishes range. Of course gas prices fluctuate too and for all we know could be $7 again next summer. But I don’t think it’s unfair to say at best it’s probably a wash assuming average circumstances.
That said, even if there was a modest benefit over the lifetime of the car I’d imagine it’d be very hard to recoup the upcharge for the plug-in hybrid drivetrain- certainly if you’re paying $10k more but even if it was only $2500 more. Plus, being a significantly more complicated vehicle with a higher risk of costly repairs and potentially a shorter lifespan, again negating benefits. No one is going to spend $10k+ on a new battery on a 10+ year old car. (Volvo does have an 8yr/100k warranty battery system but I don’t believe it covers the electric motor).
If you live in a place with dirt cheap energy, are leasing the car (thus eligible for tax credits and not concerned about long term reliability), maybe you have an excess of solar generation to offset some of your electricity costs… that’s perhaps a scenario where the plug-in hybrid makes a lot more sense.
The way things are headed, electricity is likely going to get more expensive for everyone as fossil fuels are phased out, electricity demand increases, and generating capacity fails to match at the rate of increased demand.
Nope. I think it is a mistake on their part. I'm already used to Polestar, and the rest of the car is so good that I can get over it. But personally it feels like an unnecessary design feature that takes more away than that it adds.Is there no rear window?
Apparently it allowed for more rigidity, and having the seats more backwards. It has to be said, the rear space is luxurious. A really nice place to be. And the way the seats recline and the seating position with your knees lower than your chin, it isn't something seen often in an EV in the back. Tesla Model S and Porsche Taycan take note. My daughter can easily drive me to the south of france in that
But I think it makes the look outside from the rear challenging, naturally that is very subjective. But what I found just annoying is that you can't see passengers when having a conversation. The mirror is digital and a camera, to see the passengers you have to press a switch to switch it to actual mirror mode, but then you don't see outside. There is no blended view. And as aforementioned the refresh rate is too slow, when pulling away and looking at the cars behind you they update jerkily like some frames are missing. The same is when you turn a corner. Perhaps it is my drivers training (I've had evasive and anti-hijack courses due to work and where we used to live) but I nearly always have a mirror view and found that noticeable. Then the other point is varifocals, not unique to this car but emphasized more due to a digital mirror. In larger cars they. can be challenging, in my range rover I had difficulties seeing the satnav screen, and also had a focal point in the windscreen during rain and fog where the heated elements would take over. This is strong with this mirror as well. My prescription was already adjusted, but if your transaction is quite separate it will require excessive head movements.
Saying all that, and it sounds bad, it is actually a fantastic car. And despite those annoyances which could have easily been avoided with glass and a mirror, it is a fantastic car and I would suggest anyone in the market to test drive it and see for themselves.
Some people find it big though, and I guess it is. It is nearly as long as a Tesla Model S and Porsche Panamera, but wider than both!!! But, I do have a Porsche Panamera at the moment, it doesn't feel it when driving at all. I think it is because you are a bit higher up, and it doesn't have 'hips'. I found it no problem going down little country lanes, villages, nor navigating around a busy circuit.
No but nowhere near enough. I appreciate how lucky I am to have free charging
Well, yes that is the thing, and a good point. If there was a window and a traditional mirror, the view would be way less, undoubtedly. My Panamera has a huge window, but a tiny little view as it is so sloped. I would like to see an augmented mirror personally, so it blends in the passengers, and perhaps smartly expands the view. But other than my small critisms it actually works well.
I prefer both. On my golf the camera was located under the badge and only came out when reversing so was always clean.
On my BMW it’s out all the time, but doesn’t restrict the view that much in the rain or when the car hasn’t been washed.
It is actually a lovely, lovely experience in the back. You don't really notice the lack of the window. The side door windows are huge, and you have the full view of the huge chromatic panoramic roof above you. And when you electrically recline the seats a bit you are just gazing at the sky
It feels like being in the back of a S class, or 7 series, or Panamera with the privacy blind on the parcel shelf in the up position.
We pay a lot more for petrol in the UK. But a pure EV would work in the above scenario still. But you’d have to go second hand where the car costs significantly less.
In terms of longevity I’d expect a battery pack to last a lot longer than you might expect. Yes you might lose a little range, but the figures show it’s a lot less than people expect. Not like old iPhones and laptops. The batteries are much more sophisticated.
Very low at the moment and when I’m visiting companies I always check for these things. The company I work for had a single EV charger in our car park as one of our Directors had a plug in hybrid. After he was sacked the company paid for it to be removed bizarrely. I asked why they’d done it when in future it’s likely all business will be expected to provide a certain amount of chargers for employees and the answer we ‘we won’t’…
My wife’s company has free charging and they have 12 EV bays for Directors at the moment. No one else there is driving EV’s yet.
I think this really depends on where you live. There is over capacity, so much so that charges are being brought in when you want to feed back to the grid. My supply of electricity is nearly 100% green by offshore windfarms. In addition the house we are renovating is to be very durable and self sufficient, yet in the center of town; think solar roof tiles, ground source heatpump for heating and cooling, and a hybrid air one for the loft area, combined with home battery storage and dynamic load/feed based on dynamic market contract (ie. we can load them up extra during cheap tariffs, you get paid to use electricity
, and live of it during expensive times) and two car chargers. Sufficient to manage a 320 sqm 4 story 1930s town property. At our place in the UK we pay now 7p per kWh between 00:00-05:30 and 23p for other times, no green features in the house. So pretty good as well.
Toyota far exceed both in terms of quality and reliability but Japanese and Korean cars lack the aesthetic appeal and quality finish for European tastes beyond the middle market sector. The i30 is a decent car though and very popular on our roads and they hold their value very well.
This is very much uncharted (no pun intended)- or poorly charted territory. I’m not sure what specific regulations you speak of, beyond discharging the batteries to a level to minimize risk, disconnecting the batteries, ensuring the ambient temperature is acceptable, refusing vehicles with damaged batteries, labeling EV’s so crew are aware, having fire detection systems.
That’s all procedural type stuff to mitigate risk. The fact of the matter is that all risk cannot be mitigated and there have been a number of high profile battery fires on ships. Some couriers will not allow EV’s on board. Fires are without a doubt the most serious threat to ships.
It’s for the same reason why lithium ion batteries are forbidden from freight shipment on passenger planes and even passenger devices have to be carry-on. The fear is batteries could ignite in the cargo hold and no one would notice fast enough to deal with it.
As I’m sure you know, the problem with lithium-ion battery fires is that they cannot be fought with water (in the conventional sense) as it will only make the fire worse. No ships are currently in service designed to deal with EV fires nor do they have the equipment necessary- people are surprised to know most fire departments lack the equipment to adequately deal with battery fires.
It’s not just a fire or a fire inflamed by water that’s the problem, these fires burn exceptionally hot and produce highly toxic gases. And even if you put out the fire, thermal runaway can restart a many, many hours later. I’ve seen people propose jettisoning cars- not likely practical given the cars are packed in like sardines (also increasing risk of cascading fires) and something that could easily become very dangerous to crew in a moderate-heavy sea state. Moving heavy cargo while underway is not safe at all (numerous injuries with that Gaza Pier disaster).
I suspect we’ll eventually see ships designed for transporting EV’s. I imagine this would entail either packaging the vehicles in containers or keeping them contained compartments able to withstand the fire until specifically designed fire suppression systems can put the fire out.
This might require the ship be able to adjust its ballast or flood other compartments, preferably at least semi-automated, in order to prevent instability due to rapid and significant changes in weight distribution. Water is heavy.
My father used to be on the board of one of the biggest companies that made battery storage systems for the power grid (think Tesla Megapack). Their design basically put rack-mounted batteries inside an enclosure much like a shipping container- fully climate controlled. The fire suppression system used heptoflouropropane to quickly extinguish the fire. That however does not cool the batteries, so to prevent thermal runaway the interior is flooded from floor to ceiling with water from a fire hydrant main. Basically a similar concept as fire departments extinguishing EV fires and throwing the car into the ocean or dumpster full of water for day or two.
The idea that ships have EV safety on car transport ships is totally under control thanks to some best practices is fundamentally not the case.
And considering the stated very low level risk of thermal runaway, it’s concerning the London fire dept reported a fire incident rate of 0.04% for gas/diesel cars 0.1% for EVs. Then again, the rate of fires is far less of a problem (esp given EVs are such a minority) than is the difficulty managing the fires.
That said, this is not an unmanageable problem. Properly designed ships and advancements in battery tech and manufacturing will hopefully make the risk increasingly small.
I think this really depends on where you live. There is over capacity, so much so that charges are being brought in when you want to feed back to the grid. My supply of electricity is nearly 100% green by offshore windfarms. In addition the house we are renovating is to be very durable and self sufficient, yet in the center of town; think solar roof tiles, ground source heatpump for heating and cooling, and a hybrid air one for the loft area, combined with home battery storage and dynamic load/feed based on dynamic market contract (ie. we can load them up extra during cheap tariffs, you get paid to use electricity
At our place in the UK we pay now 7p per kWh between 00:00-05:30 and 23p for other times, no green features in the house. So pretty good as well.
Yeah, that was basically my point. My electric rate is double the national average and 3x the the lowest priced states. Like I said, my state does not allow variable rates. When it comes to solar, some utilities do not net metering and many that do pay pennies on the dollars.
Living in Boston, it’s not exactly an ideal location for solar geographically, sunlight is partially impeded by a neighboring high rise, not to mention we have an unfavorable ratio of roof area to building size- I’m in a 4 story brownstone with 7 unit, most of the roof is consumed with HVAC equipment and skylights (other also have roof decks and generators). Generally speaking in the US market, home battery storage makes little sense unless maybe you also consider it a generator alternative. Variable rates certainly would help the financial equation, but the real killer is the battery cost given the lifespan (and I’m not familiar with any govt incentives in the U.S. to defray the cost). Heat pump AC is fantastic, but in very cold climates the heating function can become quite inefficient, even if it is able to handle putting out adequate heat.
If it makes sense financially, taking in all the facets, and it meets your needs by all means buy a plug-in hybrid. To be clear, the efficiency for example of Tesla Model Y my situation is totally different- the cost per mile would be about half of my mild hybrid XC60. Very different scenario.
As I was driving, the rear seat passenger would often want to see what's going on and sit bolt upright in the middle of the seat. Blocking my rear view.
A camera would totally remove the back seat passengers (well, the entire back seat!). They could do whatever they like back there and I can pretend they don't exist
That indeed, and luggage also doesn’t impede the view. There are a lot of benefits to it, when implemented properly.As I was driving, the rear seat passenger would often want to see what's going on and sit bolt upright in the middle of the seat. Blocking my rear view.
A camera would totally remove the back seat passengers (well, the entire back seat!). They could do whatever they like back there and I can pretend they don't exist
We have a full EV and a hybrid. But I’ve got a not so common use case for still the next year. I go twice or three times per month through four countries. With the natural midpoint being a ferry terminal that doesn’t have charging, and there is also no charging whilst sailing. No EV can do the whole journey in one go, and I don’t want one extra stop no matter how small. So I bought earlier this year a Porsche Panamera plugin hybrid to replace my 5.0SC Range Rover. Still got the comfort, and speed, but use a out 1/3 of the fuel. And around town I’m generally fully electric. That situation will go on for a other year whilst our home is being rebuilt. Then I’ll get a full BEV as well.
No plan to make the switch to electric but it’s time to drastically reduce or end all government subsidies for EV and to increase the excise tax at the charging station.
And let’s remove all government subsidies for oil and gas also and increase the federal excise tax. I’m all for taxing fairly across the board.
I’m open to that. How much subsidy is there to purchase a gasoline vehicle? What are the tax breaks on using gasoline vehicles?
Those subsidies have been removed in many countries and that has contributed to the reduction in adoption. Charging stations already charge 5 to 6 times more than home chargers so are you happy for your electricity bills to go up by the same percentage?
Not in the US. And every charger for EVs should be taxed. Infrastructure does not pay for itself.
Here is one example of a tax break for oil companies.
- intangible drilling costs deduction.
Since you want to remove all subsidies from the EV pipeline, lets do the same for the oil companies and ice car manufacturers.
As long as they keep it cheaper to drive green than pump petrol fumes into the air, sure. Perhaps increase the cost for gas guzzlers.
I never said the whole EV pipeline, but we both know that would include fossil fuel.
My input is merely limited to EV charging stations properly collecting revenue to support the rising cost of infrastructure as well as removing financial breaks of buying and maintaining an EV.