Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

At a glance it looks like the most EV fee in the US is roughly $200. Currently EV and hybrid owners play less in combined registration and gasoline fees than fossil fuel users. It is not about fairness or unfairness. EV owners, which will soon be us all, will have to pay higher fees. Some numbers I’m seeing is a hike in the neighborhood of 30% per year in.

I think you are mixing up how much people actually pay in fuel taxes... Most states that have a higher EV registration tax have unfairly added it to where people are paying MORE than they actually did buying fuel (based off miles driven on a 30-mpg vehicle).

We are paying more. Also, there is an increased service tax for electric usage. It is up to the local tax collectors to figure that all out. States are collecting taxes (sales and service) from all the chargers going it, and electricity usage (home and private chargers).

 

[GrayFlannel]

Alternative fuels including hydrogen are already here.

Hydrogen fuel is not here and won’t be for numerous generations, if ever.

Government needs to figure it out. … I don’t know.

Precisely. And it’s going to be a rude awakening.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I don’t know where you live but it is irrelevant. I don’t know a country on this planet that does not add fees at the fossil fuel pump. That revenue will need to be replaced when fossil fuel vehicles disappear..

It is relevant because from next year EV’s will cost £400+ a year in tax whereas my diesel car is £150. Don’t worry, they are introducing plenty of costs linked with all cars to make sure enough money of robbed, I mean earned off motorists. We are well aware the benefits of EV’s are becoming less of a financial advantage and it’ll be just in time for everybody else to be fleeced. A packet of fags costs nearly £20 now and we already pay nearly double for fuel, energy and groceries as many other countries. My location is visible btw, not hiding it.

 

[GrayFlannel]

I think you are mixing up how much people actually pay in fuel taxes.

No, not at all.

 

[adrianlondon]

EVs are currently exempt from the London congestion charge (£15/day). This exemption ends at the end of 2025.

It is called the "congestion" charge, not "environment" or "pollution" charge, so it does make sense, but I know people who bough EVs with this exemption being one of the main considerations.

 

[JT2002TJ]

No, not at all.

NY does not add this fee (yet, but we pay), but the states that do, are paying more in additional taxes than ICE pay in fuel taxes. I'll take NY fuel taxes, since it is on the higher side. NY is trying to reduce emissions, so for now, it is encouraging the switch.

NY's tax as per: (https://www.complyiq.io/gas-tax-state-2/)

New York $0.2535/ gallon

12k miles per year on a 35-mpg vehicle = 343 gallons per year
343 gallons X $0.2535 = $87

So, the average NY driver is paying $87 per year in NYS taxes. Most states with added EV taxes have hiked up EV Registrations > $87.

Plus, we pay the state increased sales taxes for home electricity, fast charging which fuel vehicles do not pay...

So, NYS is losing $87 per year on EVs that they would have collected. I pay more than $87 per year in additional electricity taxes (my electric service went up $150 per month). Even doubling $87 (because I have 2 EV's), I still pay more in taxes from electricity (my wife drives <3k miles per year).

*this doesn't account for Federal collections, but it is less than $87 per year. In the end, it is not this HUGH amount that each person pays. It's <$100 per year per vehicle...

 

[Apple fanboy]

EVs are currently exempt from the London congestion charge (£15/day). This exemption ends at the end of 2025.

It is called the "congestion" charge, not "environment" or "pollution" charge, so it does make sense, but I know people who bough EVs with this exemption being one of the main considerations.

But they are exempt from the ULEZ charge though.

 

[I7guy]

Hydrogen fuel is not here and won’t be for numerous generations, if ever.

It’s here now, not in any great numbers.

Precisely. And it’s going to be a rude awakening.

No, we will all be taxed same as school tax. I have no kids in school and yet part of my taxes goes to school operations. There will be something similar for the infrastructure.

 

[jz0309]

Hydrogen fuel is not here and won’t be for numerous generations, if ever.


Precisely. And it’s going to be a rude awakening.

We are already “awake”…
Last Nov my Bolt EUV registration fee was $645, our Tucson PHEV was $450…
I should get my renewal soon and it will show how much “EV charge” there is included. My previous Prius was in the order of less than $300…

And you should do some more research, Toyota has been selling the Mirai for 7 or so years in CA, hydrogen is there today, but that is a whole other discussion

 

[jz0309]

That's different than ONLY having a camera rear view mirror and no window at all
(I have a Bolt also btw)

There are many times I like to look out the back window (or in the back window) that have nothing to do with sitting in the drivers seat and seeing what's behind me

I didn’t realize until after my post that vehicle does not have a rear window, odd design choice…

 

[GrayFlannel]

It’s here now, not in any great numbers.

Hydrogen is not commercially viable and won’t be for generations.
But it’s a topic for a different thread.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Infrastructure costs are captured through taxes, for example our roads are funded through council tax and grants. EV owners pay for these as well as ICE vehicle owners. Do petroleum companies donate money to maintain our roads then? They certainly don’t where I live.

Home chargers are metered as is all the electricity we use in our homes. Not sure what you mean to be honest?

Exactly. And even those without cars pay for that through taxes, just like we all pay for services we don’t directly consume. Just how the system is.

 

[I7guy]

Hydrogen is not commercially viable and won’t be for generations.
But it’s a topic for a different thread.

There are cars that can fill up with hydrogen. I agree it’s not there at scale today, but it’s here.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Sorry I don’t understand your confusion. Maybe post 6093 helps?

It’s seems it’s a US specific thing; you are talking about the Highway Trust which is funded through a levy on petrol and diesel fuels? A very different system than in many other parts of the world as such moneys simply aren’t ringfenced. From that perspective, which you didn’t explain, I can actually see you point 👍

 

[cyb3rdud3]

EVs are currently exempt from the London congestion charge (£15/day). This exemption ends at the end of 2025.

It is called the "congestion" charge, not "environment" or "pollution" charge, so it does make sense, but I know people who bough EVs with this exemption being one of the main considerations.

But they still remain compliant with the wider ultra low emissions zone. So they don’t have to pay that. But so was my 5.0 supercharged V8 🤷‍♂️😂 I also registered my Netherlands car for an exception.

 

[A.Goldberg]

And let’s remove all government subsidies for oil and gas also and increase the federal excise tax. I’m all for taxing fairly across the board.

I’m open to that. How much subsidy is there to purchase a gasoline vehicle? What are the tax breaks on using gasoline vehicles?

i’m not against the government offering incentives to jumpstart new technologies/industries. But in typical fashion, I think the government poorly administered EV tax credits… if the ultimate goal is to minimize fossil fuel consumption, the incentive should have been to encourage car companies to produce affordable mainstream EV’s. Instead, most EV’s are luxury vehicles (avg $65k) that we the taxpayers subsidize. To some extent, the tax credits only encourage car companies to inflate their prices. Besides Tesla, I’m not sure any EVs are actually turning a profit- some of the losses per vehicle are astounding… Lucid being the worst.

EV’s should be taxed in some fashion equivalent to gas tax given they drive on the road like everyone else and cause wear on tear too- more so considering how heavy EV’s are compared to a similar ICE vehicle.

I feel like complaining about oil and gas subsidies has become such a reflex for people. The reality is that the “subsidies” major oil companies receive (some of which aren’t really subsidies m) are the same incentives offered and taken advantage of by other major companies in other industries. Here is an article comparing Exxon’s tax burden to Google.

So, Google makes more money on lower revenues and pays a lower overall tax rate than ExxonMobil. It has a net margin that is nearly double ExxonMobil’s. So why do people rage over ExxonMobil’s profits, but say absolutely nothing about Google’s?

Exxon is paying about 30% in taxes while Google is paying 20%. What if I told you Apple pretty routinely pays right around 15%? Pharma averages around 20%.

Whether we like it or not, oil is an integral part of economy and currently integral to maintaining our way of life. Tightening the tax burden and increasing excise tax on oil and gas obviously makes them more expensive. That means basically more expensive including the electricity to charge EVs (-45% of US power generation comes from natural gas. More expensive to make EVs. Food prices will increase because farmers use fuels, not to mention the cost of transporting all goods will be higher.

At the end of the day it’s not the oil and gas companies who will affected. Excise taxes on fuel are inherently regressive, meaning it disproportionately affects the lower classes the more affluent. I don’t think that’s the outcome we’re looking for.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

EV’s should be taxed in some fashion equivalent to gas tax given they drive on the road like everyone else and cause wear on tear too- more so considering how heavy EV’s are compared to a similar ICE vehicle.

Since when have vehicles been taxed based on how heavy they are and how much wear and tear they cause? Taxes for EV’s are changing and in the UK for example it’s going to be £400+ a year soon whereas it’s currently £0. The honeymoon period is over but I don’t agree with taxing based on weight.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Since when have vehicles been taxed based on how heavy they are and how much wear and tear they cause? Taxes for EV’s are changing and in the UK for example it’s going to be £400+ a year soon whereas it’s currently £0. The honeymoon period is over but I don’t agree with taxing based on weight.

Perhaps not in the UK, but that method has been used in other countries. Netherlands is based on weight, fuel type, and the region where it is registered. Weight is the main element, fuel type and region provide corrections and final pricing. NSW, Hungary (used to be), India it plays a big role, Japan (used to be), Latvia (weight, engine volume and power), Norway, etc.

 

[adrianlondon]

Switzerland too, although in typical fashion each canton (county) does it differently.

Some charge by weight of the car, some my "kerb/curb" weight, some add CO2 emissions on as well ...

I don't own a car, so had to google it. Typically Swiss, they've come up with 8 different ways to tax a car!

A Guide to Road Tax Rates in Switzerland | gowago.ch

Swiss Road Taxes: How are they calculated? What do you need to pay for your car? When do you need to pay them? Everything you need to know about the tax system for Swiss roads.

gowago.ch

 

[diamond.g]

Perhaps not in the UK, but that method has been used in other countries. Netherlands is based on weight, fuel type, and the region where it is registered. Weight is the main element, fuel type and region provide corrections and final pricing. NSW, Hungary (used to be), India it plays a big role, Japan (used to be), Latvia (weight, engine volume and power), Norway, etc.

In the US long haul truckers are most of our issue with our roads needing repair. So if taxes were done by weight, the would be paying the most (and we all know that cost is going to be passed along to us).

 

[cyb3rdud3]

In the US long haul truckers are most of our issue with our roads needing repair. So if taxes were done by weight, the would be paying the most (and we all know that cost is going to be passed along to us).

Definitely and likewise. Our UK home is on a hill in the country side. Too many heavy goods vehicles keep using it as a shortcut when there is a traffic jam at the main motorway. And when they brake at the bottom of the hill they just rip open the road. Like twice a year it has to be repaired. It’s crazy. They should use trains and waterways 🤷‍♂️👍 And last mile solutions by light goods vehicles.

 

[Apple fanboy]

In the US long haul truckers are most of our issue with our roads needing repair. So if taxes were done by weight, the would be paying the most (and we all know that cost is going to be passed along to us).

Weight is part of the issue. Round here it’s salt in winter, sunshine in summer and water all the time! Flooding is the biggest issue in the UK with creating pot holes etc.
That and temporary repairs that don’t last 5 minutes rather than actually dealing with the issue.

 

[I7guy]

i’m not against the government offering incentives to jumpstart new technologies/industries. But in typical fashion, I think the government poorly administered EV tax credits… if the ultimate goal is to minimize fossil fuel consumption, the incentive should have been to encourage car companies to produce affordable mainstream EV’s. Instead, most EV’s are luxury vehicles (avg $65k) that we the taxpayers subsidize. To some extent, the tax credits only encourage car companies to inflate their prices. Besides Tesla, I’m not sure any EVs are actually turning a profit- some of the losses per vehicle are astounding… Lucid being the worst.

Mostly can’t disagree. Companies should be focusing on affordable EVs. Some are some aren’t. Lucid decided to make its mark in the ultra luxury ev space.

EV’s should be taxed in some fashion equivalent to gas tax given they drive on the road like everyone else and cause wear on tear too- more so considering how heavy EV’s are compared to a similar ICE vehicle.

Some evs are heavier than the ice counterparts, some aren’t.

I feel like complaining about oil and gas subsidies has become such a reflex for people.

Complaining about ev subsidies as well.

The reality is that the “subsidies” major oil companies receive (some of which aren’t really subsidies m) are the same incentives offered and taken advantage of by other major companies in other industries. Here is an article comparing Exxon’s tax burden to Google.

Is it really relevant to compare Exxon with google on the context of this discussion?

Exxon is paying about 30% in taxes while Google is paying 20%. What if I told you Apple pretty routinely pays right around 15%? Pharma averages around 20%.

Whether we like it or not, oil is an integral part of economy and currently integral to maintaining our way of life. Tightening the tax burden and increasing excise tax on oil and gas obviously makes them more expensive.

Of course eliminating the subsidies to EVs will prolong their adoption.

That means basically more expensive including the electricity to charge EVs (-45% of US power generation comes from natural gas. More expensive to make EVs. Food prices will increase because farmers use fuels, not to mention the cost of transporting all goods will be higher.

At the end of the day it’s not the oil and gas companies who will affected. Excise taxes on fuel are inherently regressive, meaning it disproportionately affects the lower classes the more affluent. I don’t think that’s the outcome we’re looking for.

Percentage or flat Taxes (sales, excise to name two) are inherently regressive always affecting lower earners.

Removing subsidies isn’t an outcome we are looking for either.

 

[hovscorpion12]

Since when have vehicles been taxed based on how heavy they are and how much wear and tear they cause? Taxes for EV’s are changing and in the UK for example it’s going to be £400+ a year soon whereas it’s currently £0. The honeymoon period is over but I don’t agree with taxing based on weight.

In the US, Gas Tax is per gallon. For example: in 2024 California pumps up its gas tax the most at 68.1 cents per gallon. Since EVs replace gallon for miles, the tax would be vehicle miles traveled. based on the vehicle’s weight per axle and/or the time and location of the driving. The more you drive, the more you pay.

For those curious, obviously 100% of how the Gov't would establish the tax would be 100% shady as the only way to create the "Pay as you go" millage Tax would be a built in GPS in which your local gov't knows exactly where your vehicle is at all times. Where you go. How many times you drives....etc.

Basically, your wife's dream come true. 😅

 

[cyb3rdud3]

In the US, Gas Tax is per gallon. For example: in 2024 California pumps up its gas tax the most at 68.1 cents per gallon. Since EVs replace gallon for miles, the tax would be vehicle miles traveled. based on the vehicle’s weight per axle and/or the time and location of the driving. The more you drive, the more you pay.

For those curious, obviously 100% of how the Gov't would establish the tax would be 100% shady as the only way to create the "Pay as you go" millage Tax would be a built in GPS in which your local gov't knows exactly where your vehicle is at all times. Where you go. How many times you drives....etc.

Basically, your wife's dream come true. 😅

They've been trying that for years. There is just not a method that is fair for everyone. One could argue for example that city dwellers could easily take public transport, yet for people like me I'd have to drive 17 miles to get to my nearest shop and that is just a little cornershop at a petrol station. We do 300 miles per week just to get the children to school. And I'm only living just north of Londen the capital of the United Kingdom. When I was working for the government they did a survey to reduce the carpark, it basically meant that if I had to take public transport to be in the office before 9am in the morning I would have to leave at 19:30 the night before. Yet by car it is only 30 minutes pending traffic.

They will try, they will talk some more about it, it just doesn't work. The pricing is already in gas (petrol) and electricity. No need to overcomplicate it.