Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

There's another thing about Tesla that make them unacceptable: Repairability is horrendous. You cannot purchase parts for these cars. Repairs are Tesla only. I maintain and repair my cars and these cars are not owner-maintainable or repairable.

I read a story of someone who it a road hazard and it snapped off the coolant line going into the battery pack. Tesla wanted $35,000 to replace the entire battery pack. Instead, the guy found a mechanic who tapped new threads into the battery pack and re-threaded the coolant line going into the pack. That's just ridiculous.

Tesla allows owners and independent mechanics access to parts and even has the shop manuals available for free. Toolbox gives you access to all the systems much like any other manufacturer’s ODBII interface.

Just like other manufacturers Tesla doesn’t repair certain components that are part of the battery, they simply replace the battery pack and use the salvaged battery for rebuilds. The coolant elbow is one of those parts (Rich Rebuilds has the video you are talking about). This is very similar to other OEM’s replacing engines/transmissions/axles versus repair. These components are so fine tuned they don’t want techs rebuilding them in an open uncontrolled environment.

Just like, I don’t know any dealers that repair any ZF transmissions. They simply swap them for close to $10k.

The days of easy repairs for any vehicle are long gone. They all require expensive specialized tools/computers.

 

[diamond.g]

When they passed right to repair in my state, the law said it applies to cars sold at dealerships. Tesla has no dealerships.

Right to repair also applies to Teslas. IIRC Tesla made the service manuals free to owners and you can order parts from EPC (some need a valid VIN) to make your own repairs if you want to. To be fair I think the battery pack is the only thing I'm not sure they will sell (even with a VIN).

 

[JT2002TJ]

I doubt that that is wholly accurate. Isn’t there something called the right to repair or something similar in the USA? I know here in Europe you can get parts and do it yourself if you want to.

It was. Rich Rebuilds built an entire career off of buying salvaged Teslas and rebuilding them. He was sent lots of letters from Tesla lawyers. But, that has all changed. Tesla opened up access. It has been years, but the internet will always bring up the past like it is still happening.

 

[Alameda]

Tesla allows owners and independent mechanics access to parts and even has the shop manuals available for free. Toolbox gives you access to all the systems much like any other manufacturer’s ODBII interface.

Just like other manufacturers Tesla doesn’t repair certain components that are part of the battery, they simply replace the battery pack and use the salvaged battery for rebuilds. The coolant elbow is one of those parts (Rich Rebuilds has the video you are talking about). This is very similar to other OEM’s replacing engines/transmissions/axles versus repair. These components are so fine tuned they don’t want techs rebuilding them in an open uncontrolled environment.

Just like, I don’t know any dealers that repair any ZF transmissions. They simply swap them for close to $10k.

The days of easy repairs for any vehicle are long gone. They all require expensive specialized tools/computers.

My BMW is ten years old and has 90,000 miles and I've been able to do all repairs myself, now that the warranty is up. Repairs are, I'd say, easier in this day and age because of YouTube and the Internet. It used to be really difficult to learn how to perform a given repair, but not anymore.

I'll agree... replacing a valve cover gasket on a six-cylinder BMW is a few orders of magnitude more complex than replacing them on a VW Beetle, although the Beetle needed new valve cover gaskets every few thousand miles.

For that matter... my Prius has 160,000 miles and I've never taken it to a repair shop. My son drives it now but it's never been touched by any mechanic except me. They're awesome cars.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Right to repair also applies to Teslas. IIRC Tesla made the service manuals free to owners and you can order parts from EPC (some need a valid VIN) to make your own repairs if you want to. To be fair I think the battery pack is the only thing I'm not sure they will sell (even with a VIN).

They won’t, because guess who ends up on the news if there is any EV fire. Tesla takes battery stuff seriously. I don’t blame them.

There are 3rd party companies like Rich Rebuilds partner (not sure who the owners are) Electrified Garage that repairs batteries.

Even with this, Tesla stops Supercharger access without a Tesla certification process for salvaged vehicles. Again, for safety.

 

[JT2002TJ]

My BMW is ten years old and has 90,000 miles and I've been able to do all repairs myself, now that the warranty is up. Repairs are, I'd say, easier in this day and age because of YouTube and the Internet. It used to be really difficult to learn how to perform a given repair, but not anymore.

I'll agree... replacing a valve cover gasket on a six-cylinder BMW is a few orders of magnitude more complex than replacing them on a VW Beetle, although the Beetle needed new valve cover gaskets every few thousand miles.

Have you had to rebuild the ZF transmission? (If you have an auto).

 

[WC7]

My BMW is ten years old and has 90,000 miles and I've been able to do all repairs myself, now that the warranty is up. Repairs are, I'd say, easier in this day and age because of YouTube and the Internet. It used to be really difficult to learn how to perform a given repair, but not anymore.

I'll agree... replacing a valve cover gasket on a six-cylinder BMW is a few orders of magnitude more complex than replacing them on a VW Beetle, although the Beetle needed new valve cover gaskets every few thousand miles.

For that matter... my Prius has 160,000 miles and I've never taken it to a repair shop. My son drives it now but it's never been touched by any mechanic except me. They're awesome cars.

I do enjoy my little Beetle (EA888 engine?) ... I realize maintenance is always there ... but I pay now, no more maintenance work ... too old. I am nostalgic ... so really don't see myself going EV ... unless I get an EV bike ... like all these kids are riding!

 

[cyb3rdud3]

When they passed right to repair in my state, the law said it applies to cars sold at dealerships. Tesla has no dealerships.

And today? 😀

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I do enjoy my little Beetle (EA888 engine?) ... I realize maintenance is always there ... but I pay now, no more maintenance work ... too old. I am nostalgic ... so really don't see myself going EV ... unless I get an EV bike ... like all these kids are riding!

The kids on EV bikes (over here popularly called Fat Bikes) have a terrible reputation. Plenty of normal e bikes available.

 

[Alameda]

And today? 😀

I don’t believe Tesla has any dealerships in the U.S. They sell direct.

 

[diamond.g]

I don’t believe Tesla has any dealerships in the U.S. They sell direct.

They have dealerships, just not franchised ones.

 

[JT2002TJ]

They have dealerships, just not franchised ones.

I think technically they are service centers. With or without a showroom. At least that is how it is in NY/NJ. They will help you buy a vehicle on their computers or on your phone, but they only deliver cars, not sell them on site.

In NY Tesla can inspect vehicles for deliveries but won’t inspect vehicles off the street. So every year I have bring both of mine to other shops.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I don’t believe Tesla has any dealerships in the U.S. They sell direct.

That wasn't quite the point though As others have already stated you can order Tesla parts, the repair manual is available as well. So perhaps it was valid several years ago, but it doesn't seem to be like that today.

 

[diamond.g]

I think technically they are service centers. With or without a showroom. At least that is how it is in NY/NJ. They will help you buy a vehicle on their computers or on your phone, but they only deliver cars, not sell them on site.

In NY Tesla can inspect vehicles for deliveries but won’t inspect vehicles off the street. So every year I have bring both of mine to other shops.

Potato Potato...

😂

 

[JT2002TJ]

Potato Potato...

😂

I read them both the same…. The right way to pronounce it…

 

[SalisburySam]

Potato Potato...

😂

You say po-TAY-toe, I say vodka.

 

[diamond.g]

I hear VinFast has some crazy leasing deals to move inventory.

 

[hobowankenobi]

It was. Rich Rebuilds built an entire career off of buying salvaged Teslas and rebuilding them. He was sent lots of letters from Tesla lawyers. But, that has all changed. Tesla opened up access. It has been years, but the internet will always bring up the past like it is still happening.

And, Rich has built an entire brand on pushing the limits of self-repair, as well as challenging/snubbing Tesla. Not an unbiased or common source. Almost everything he does is edge case.

Even without getting into EV specifics...a massive, untold amount of cars are "totaled" every year in the US, and some are rebuilt and sold with salvage titles by folks like Rich.

 

[thettareddast]

Long time motoring journalist
Jason Camissa and professional racing driver Randy Pobst just published a comparison video of the new Model 3 Performance vs the BMW M3 Competition.

1. Which is more fun to drift around: Tesla

2. Which is quicker around a track: BMW…only due to its better stock tires (they used telemetry to pinpoint the answer)

3. Can they both run a full 10-lap, 15 minute track session: Yes. Tesla brakes worked for entire session, and even felt better than BMW. Stock Pirellis however degraded quicker than BMW’s Michelins.

4. Which is the better car to live with: Tesla, by big margin.

5. Which is funner on a back road: BMW. Tesla has zero critiques, but BMW motor sounds and feels more exciting.

6. Which is the better overall car: Tesla.

The only let down were the tires. Swap the Pirellis for some Cup 2 and it claw back most of the margins where it lagged. Nevermind for the price of the BMW you could get the Tesla, and a Miata, and a GT86, AND new tires.

 

[thettareddast]

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Long time motoring journalist
Jason Camissa and professional racing driver Randy Pobst just published a comparison video of the new Model 3 Performance vs the BMW M3 Competition.

1. Which is more fun to drift around: Tesla

2. Which is quicker around a track: BMW…only due to its better stock tires (they used telemetry to pinpoint the answer)

3. Can they both run a full 10-lap, 15 minute track session: Yes. Tesla brakes worked for entire session, and even felt better than BMW. Stock Pirellis however degraded quicker than BMW’s Michelins.

4. Which is the better car to live with: Tesla, by big margin.

5. Which is funner on a back road: BMW. Tesla has zero critiques, but BMW motor sounds and feels more exciting.

6. Which is the better overall car: Tesla.

The only let down were the tires. Swap the Pirellis for some Cup 2 and it claw back most of the margins where it lagged. Nevermind for the price of the BMW you could get the Tesla, and a Miata, and a GT86, AND new tires.

Funny how different it is perceived in the USA 🤷‍♂️

 

[diamond.g]

Funny how different it is perceived in the USA 🤷‍♂️

LG pack’s lower power output and relatively poor thermals don’t help ROW M3P.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

LG pack’s lower power output and relatively poor thermals don’t help ROW M3P.

True, there is a small difference there. Although measurements and specs are also to different value and on paper don't vary materially. The brakes are the same, though. Although I guess we have more bends!

 

[diamond.g]

True, there is a small difference there. Although measurements and specs are also to different value and on paper don't vary materially. The brakes are the same, though. Although I guess we have more bends!


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They were also running software that most of us don't have yet (2024.38). I guess it does a decent job replacing MPP Cooling Party controller.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

They were also running software that most of us don't have yet (2024.38). I guess it does a decent job replacing MPP Cooling Party controller.

Yes I was wondering that, some of the modes looked interesting. And the experience was so different than on the ring that Tesla must have listened and fixed what needed fixing.

Polestar did a similar thing when Micha demonstrated the weak points, and then they updated it, and the engineer went out with him and it was a very different story.

Super impressive if Tesla has fixed those issues.