Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[Santiago]

Yes, there are other EV, like previously mentioned Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, and that's it(!!!!)
There was a handful of other EV's that did not last.

The Chevrolet Bolt is doing fine, having sold 16-23k vehicles per year in the US for the last four years, and over 9k so far this year.

I personally have a Chevrolet Spark, which is a great little low-cost EV that has sadly been discontinued and was only available in California and a few other select markets. It has a fairly limiting range, but as a daily commuting vehicle, it works great. Once you get an EV, you realize there's many subtle advantages about it, like not needing to ever stop for gas (if you've got a charger at home and/or work) and not needing oil changes.

 

[Huntn]

Full charge in 15 min, about same as gas car.

Or plug into typical house socket and charge overnight.

No liability, that was resolved years ago (after all, electric cars have existed 100 years or more).

Some EV and Hybrids are over 10 years, still going.

The formula for the car Li-ion batteries is for charge cycles, not energy density. They do loose capacity over time, so far looks to be in 70~80% capacity after 10 years.

Basically, better than expected, the book is being written.

I have been excited about electric vehicles, but want them to be practical. Granted, I was thinking about charging at home. 15 minutes is not terrible as I imagined, although I can refuel in 4 minutes. Is that 15minutes an accurate figure? Some big infrastructure strides need to be met to support mass numbers of electrical vehicles so people can effectively take road trips.

In what % of these cars do the batteries go bad and how much to replace them? Is that the equivalent of totaling the car?

 

[Huntn]

That is Lead-Acid, and must be incredibly poor ones. Mine get 4.5 to 6 years life (and I live just down the road).

Li-ion are more stable and longer lasting.

Yes, Lead-Acid and I was wondering about parallels with the batteries in EVs Regarding hot climates. I usually buy batteries have been buying batteries with 3 or 4 year getting more than 2 years out of my batteries, but have had to change them more often then when living in a cooler climate, where I lived for 30 years.

 

[coole$t kid$ ever]

green=cool

 

[SactoGuy18]

If I had the money, I'd get myself a Tesla Model Y Long-Range. With good reason: an actually reasonably reliable recharging network. I've heard just way too many tales of charging problems at CCS chargers here in the USA.

 

[Apple fanboy]

If I had the money, I'd get myself a Tesla Model Y Long-Range. With good reason: an actually reasonably reliable recharging network. I've heard just way too many tales of charging problems at CCS chargers here in the USA.

Come to the U.K. Our network is even worse!

 

[PracticalMac]

If I can't make it from San Francisco to LA on one charge for an electric vehicle, than I'm not sure they are fully ready yet.

Not every gas car can go 382 mi on a tank of gas (one traffic jam will kill any chance of a 1 tank run).
Fewer people can stay in seat for 6 hour drive.

That seems an unreasonable expectation.

 

[AdamNC]

Nope. Not until 4 things happen. 1) Full Charging in under 10 minutes. 2) Enough charging stations everywhere. Even in the middle of the damn desert. I am the type that makes a lot of sudden long trips over a short period. Like I drove from Wilmington NC to Roanoke VA and back on Thursday. 690 miles round trip. 3) Cost has to come down. 4) Elon Musk must die. I hate him. Yes he is a genius but he creeps me out. And I have heard some say he is a better business man than Steve Jobs. Sorry no.

 

[AdamNC]

Not every gas car can go 382 mi on a tank of gas (one traffic jam will kill any chance of a 1 tank run).
Fewer people can stay in seat for 6 hour drive.

That seems an unreasonable expectation.

UM... I have had many gas cars got well over 450 on a tank of gas. My 2020 Honda Civic, 1997 TBird with a 4.6 V8, 1999 Mustang Cobra, BMW 318, ect..... All were manual transmissions.

 

[PracticalMac]

The Chevrolet Bolt is doing fine, having sold 16-23k vehicles per year in the US for the last four years, and over 9k so far this year.

I personally have a Chevrolet Spark, which is a great little low-cost EV that has sadly been discontinued and was only available in California and a few other select markets. It has a fairly limiting range, but as a daily commuting vehicle, it works great. Once you get an EV, you realize there's many subtle advantages about it, like not needing to ever stop for gas (if you've got a charger at home and/or work) and not needing oil changes.

That long? I thought the Bolt was introduced 2 years ago.
The Leaf and i3 have been around since 2013, one of few electrics longer than 5 years

I have been excited about electric vehicles, but want them to be practical. Granted, I was thinking about charging at home. 15 minutes is not terrible as I imagined, although I can refuel in 4 minutes. Is that 15minutes an accurate figure? Some big infrastructure strides need to be met to support mass numbers of electrical vehicles so people can effectively take road trips.

In what % of these cars do the batteries go bad and how much to replace them? Is that the equivalent of totaling the car?

Good news:
Battery life and range are proving much better than first estimates.
From here:

Every battery in an electric car sold in the U.S. comes with a warranty that lasts for a minimum of eight years or up to 100,000 miles, says CarFax. For example, Kia offers a battery pack warranty for 10 years or 100,000 miles, while Hyundai provides a lifetime coverage of its electric cars' batteries.

This standard warranty is excellent, but remember to take a look at the fine print. Some manufacturers only cover the battery if it completely dies and cannot hold a charge, which does not happen often. Brands like BMW, Chevrolet, Tesla, Volkswagen, and Nissan will cover a battery pack if its capacity drops to a certain percentage, usually 60 to 70 percent.

Bad news:
poor care will prematurely degrade that performance,

but same is true with gas, Revving engine, burning out, or improper maintenance will do same to gas.

Yes, Lead-Acid and I was wondering about parallels with the batteries in EVs Regarding hot climates. I usually buy batteries have been buying batteries with 3 or 4 year getting more than 2 years out of my batteries, but have had to change them more often then when living in a cooler climate, where I lived for 30 years.

The Tesla batteries are fully climate controlled, prevent over hear and from freezing. They are better maintained than a cell phone battery.
I assume the same is with all new EV.
Lead Acid has much higher temp range to work in.

 

[PracticalMac]

Nope. Not until 4 things happen. 1) Full Charging in under 10 minutes. 2) Enough charging stations everywhere. Even in the middle of the damn desert. I am the type that makes a lot of sudden long trips over a short period. Like I drove from Wilmington NC to Roanoke VA and back on Thursday. 690 miles round trip. 3) Cost has to come down. 4) Elon Musk must die. I hate him. Yes he is a genius but he creeps me out. And I have heard some say he is a better business man than Steve Jobs. Sorry no.

Topic is for any EV.
Did I say only Tesla?

UM... I have had many gas cars got well over 450 on a tank of gas. My 2020 Honda Civic, 1997 TBird with a 4.6 V8, 1999 Mustang Cobra, BMW 318, ect..... All were manual transmissions.

Exactly what I said.
Your point?

 

[AdamNC]

Not every gas car can go 382 mi on a tank of gas (one traffic jam will kill any chance of a 1 tank run).
Fewer people can stay in seat for 6 hour drive.

That seems an unreasonable expectation.

UM It says not every car can go 382 mi on a tank.... My point is you are saying or inferring a majority of cars can not go beyond 382.

Also I didn't say Tesla was the only one.... I just hate Elon.

 

[Altis]

It'll happen some day. I like the idea of them for general use.

I'm excited for electric motorcycles once the price comes down and range goes up. Right now, though, the range is pretty short, and they're quite expensive, and will probably get stolen if you leave it anywhere. I'd love an electric off-road bike though to peacefully go through the trails without disturbing the wildlife.

Rav4 Prime seems like a decent package all things considered. I know a few people with Tesla 3 and a Y, and while they're nice, we can't love the interior at all, especially the reliance on the touch screen to do basic things like turning on the windshield wipers (only the single swipe can be done outside of it, unless they've changed this). I much prefer physical buttons for most of the controls. My A250 has most of what I need, and you can use either the touchpad on the steering wheel or center console rather than using the touch screen (which I never use).

I kind of wish we'd get the little Honda e in Canada but it doesn't look like we will.

 

[Altis]

... Elon Musk must die. I hate him. Yes he is a genius but he creeps me out. And I have heard some say he is a better business man than Steve Jobs. Sorry no.

Seems a bit much. I don't understand those who worship him (nor Jobs) but he actually seems rather humble for someone who's really been extremely successful in advancing some very interesting and important things. Anything's better than listening to Tim Cook, Bill Gates, or really almost any of the really wealthy, etc...

Having said that, HyperLoop looks like a catastrophically flawed solution to a problem that doesn't exist, but what do I know.

 

[PracticalMac]

UM It says not every car can go 382 mi on a tank.... My point is you are saying or inferring a majority of cars can not go beyond 382.

Also I didn't say Tesla was the only one.... I just hate Elon.

"not every" means not all, but it does not mean not a majority.
I agree that most cars will go 382mi on a tank, but our Civic is right on edge of that range. Both our Corollas only about 330 miles per tank. Highway will get close, but doubt the 382.

Then why include Elon? There is plenty of non-Elon options.
Your statement sounded like no-EV as long as Elon alive.

 

[sjsharksfan12]

Not every gas car can go 382 mi on a tank of gas (one traffic jam will kill any chance of a 1 tank run).
Fewer people can stay in seat for 6 hour drive.

That seems an unreasonable expectation.

If you read a couple posts down (And I hope you did) I kind of backtracked my statement to really say there needs to be more charging stations and I don't want to be stranded over the mountains because I couldn't find a place to recharge the battery. I still think the range needs to be increased a bit.

 

[Michael Scrip]

My V6 Mustang gets ~400 miles to a tank.

But I rarely drive 5.5 hours without stopping.

So if I had an EV... and if I had to drive such long distances... I'd have no problem stopping to charge.

 

[PracticalMac]

If you read a couple posts down (And I hope you did) I kind of backtracked my statement to really say there needs to be more charging stations and I don't want to be stranded over the mountains because I couldn't find a place to recharge the battery. I still think the range needs to be increased a bit.

I did not see that as a back track, more of a detail.

What I see is people, including you, simply being trapped in old habits.

I have the impression that most of the people look at charging the car is just like filling a tank of gas. Feeling the urge to stop at a fuel pump, to get electricity.

To emphasize the point:
Electric car ROUTINE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to gasoline cars.

1. STOP looking for charge stations, instead look at where you want to go that has a charge station (mall, grocery, or restaurant).
2. Charge at home. Many power companies offer free electicy at night. FREE ELECTRICITY AT NIGHT.
3. When you do long distance, when do charge, also go charge yourself (move around, loosen up from being in seat for hours, use toilet, get a drink and/or meal).
4. There is always 110v somewhere. Yes it is slow, but you only need to charge enough to get to a fast charger.
5. EV is not for everyone. Frenqent long distance drivers likely should not use EV.

And it looks like west coast has no shortage of ports.

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/pdfs/WCEH_map.pdf

 

[Altis]

I did not see that as a back track, more of a detail.

What I see is people, including you, simply being trapped in old habits.

I have the impression that most of the people look at charging the car is just like filling a tank of gas. Feeling the urge to stop at a fuel pump, to get electricity.

To emphasize the point:
Electric car ROUTINE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to gasoline cars.

1. STOP looking for charge stations, instead look at where you want to go that has a charge station (mall, grocery, or restaurant).
2. Charge at home. Many power companies offer free electicy at night. FREE ELECTRICITY AT NIGHT.
3. When you do long distance, when do charge, also go charge yourself (move around, loosen up from being in seat for hours, use toilet, get a drink and/or meal).
4. There is always 110v somewhere. Yes it is slow, but you only need to charge enough to get to a fast charger.
5. EV is not for everyone. Frenqent long distance drivers likely should not use EV.

And it looks like west coast has no shortage of ports.

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/pdfs/WCEH_map.pdf

I think your point 5 is, err, on point. I think at this point in time, an EV makes a great second vehicle for families or couples who already have two cars, but one is mainly for commuting. Or for people who rarely drive outside of town who either take a train, plane, or can even rent a car for those occasions.

Just as I wouldn't want my motorcycle to be my only vehicle, I'm not ready to only own an EV.

I also feel it's a bit more difficult here in Ontario (Canada) than say Europe or California. Everything is farther away and charging stations aren't as prominent yet.

The F-150 Lightning electric truck looks rather promising, though a lot of people get them specifically to travel distances with their trailers, boats, etc, to remote places.

 

[PracticalMac]

I think your point 5 is, err, on point. I think at this point in time, an EV makes a great second vehicle for families or couples who already have two cars, but one is mainly for commuting. Or for people who rarely drive outside of town who either take a train, plane, or can even rent a car for those occasions.

Just as I wouldn't want my motorcycle to be my only vehicle, I'm not ready to only own an EV.

I also feel it's a bit more difficult here in Ontario (Canada) than say Europe or California. Everything is farther away and charging stations aren't as prominent yet.

Exactly.
EV is an excellent second car, and for a smaller populace a great primary car, but not for everyone.

 

[ian87w]

I'm not sure why hybrids fell out in popularity. Hybrids seem to be the perfect balance between efficiency and ease of access to regular fuel (gasoline). I don't quite get why the car companies stop pushing hybrids, especially in markets where EV chargers are still in its infancy. Eg. Hyundai is starting to push EVs in my country, despite the lack of charging infrastructure and the road condition (where the traffic is highly unpredictable). EV doesn't seem to be a great idea, yet nobody is pushing hybrids, not even Toyota. Really weird. I wonder if there's some regulatory issues that are pushing auto makers to do so.

 

[44267547]

I'm not sure why hybrids fell out in popularity. Hybrids seem to be the perfect balance between efficiency and ease of access to regular fuel (gasoline). I don't quite get why the car companies stop pushing hybrids, especially in markets where EV chargers are still in its infancy. Eg. Hyundai is starting to push EVs in my country, despite the lack of charging infrastructure and the road condition (where the traffic is highly unpredictable). EV doesn't seem to be a great idea, yet nobody is pushing hybrids, not even Toyota. Really weird. I wonder if there's some regulatory issues that are pushing auto makers to do so.

I have to disagree with your first sentence. I know you mentioned you live in a different country, but I don’t suspect hybrids are being any less popular than they were even with EV’s making their debut from all different types of manufacturers. Hybrids are still wildly popular, because they’ve been around much longer with the maturity of the drivetrain system, reliability and overall longevity surfacing 300,000+ miles before major servicing, and there’s a familiarity aspect like the Prius that has dominated that sector for the last 12 years, and now they offer more models.

The problem with EV’s, is there not available in every market and has limited usefulness with the charging infrastructure isn’t widespread. Plus, tax credits aren’t in abundance either.

For example, I was looking at a Model 3 performance about 5/6 months ago, and if our roadway infrastructure wasn’t so poor in the state that I live in, it would’ve been a done deal, but I can’t even take advantage of some of the features offered by Tesla, because of our infrastructure is abysmal, and we don’t have the charging stations within a reasonable distance.

Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware of what’s going on in North America, but hybrids are actually going up in value, due to the whole micro-chip shortage, so there’s quite a bit of demand right now for hybrids, and we’re seeing a large amount of people trading in their used hybrids for a newer model, because of the accrued value.

 

[sjsharksfan12]

Exactly.
EV is an excellent second car, and for a smaller populace a great primary car, but not for everyone.

I did not see that as a back track, more of a detail.

What I see is people, including you, simply being trapped in old habits.

I have the impression that most of the people look at charging the car is just like filling a tank of gas. Feeling the urge to stop at a fuel pump, to get electricity.

To emphasize the point:
Electric car ROUTINE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to gasoline cars.

1. STOP looking for charge stations, instead look at where you want to go that has a charge station (mall, grocery, or restaurant).
2. Charge at home. Many power companies offer free electicy at night. FREE ELECTRICITY AT NIGHT.
3. When you do long distance, when do charge, also go charge yourself (move around, loosen up from being in seat for hours, use toilet, get a drink and/or meal).
4. There is always 110v somewhere. Yes it is slow, but you only need to charge enough to get to a fast charger.
5. EV is not for everyone. Frenqent long distance drivers likely should not use EV.

And it looks like west coast has no shortage of ports.

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/pdfs/WCEH_map.pdf

I get what you are saying and right now that is basically the use for electric cars. I guess I was looking at it from the standpoint of if Electric Cars were going to somewhat replace Gas cars in 5 to 10 years, there needs to be a way to extend the range so they could go long distance. I'm not planning to buy a car for a while, but maybe in 5 years I will be buying my next car and I'm leaning towards electric. Hopefully they are better than they are today.

There was also the question of hybrids. I too was wondering about the whole Hybrid thing. Some of those hybrids (Like the Prius) are not entirely great to look at and the Honda Insight was pretty small.

 

[MaxinMusicCity]

When HELL FREEZES OVER I will consider buying an electric car. People seem to be unaware that Windmills and Solar Cells are not going to be sufficient to power a national fleet of such cars. One only needs to look at Texas' recent experience with relying on such a source. So Coal and Oil are still king of the energy hill. I'll stick with gas thank you.

 

[ian87w]

I have to disagree with your first sentence. I know you mentioned you live in a different country, but I don’t suspect hybrids are being any less popular than they were even with EV’s making their debut from all different types of manufacturers. Hybrids are still wildly popular, because they’ve been around much longer with the maturity of the drivetrain system, reliability and overall longevity surfacing 300,000+ miles before major servicing, and there’s a familiarity aspect like the Prius that has dominated that sector for the last 12 years, and now they offer more models.

The problem with EV’s, is there not available in every market and has limited usefulness with the charging infrastructure isn’t widespread. Plus, tax credits aren’t in abundance either.

For example, I was looking at a Model 3 performance about 5/6 months ago, and if our roadway infrastructure wasn’t so poor in the state that I live in, it would’ve been a done deal, but I can’t even take advantage of some of the features offered by Tesla, because of our infrastructure is abysmal, and we don’t have the charging stations within a reasonable distance.

Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware of what’s going on in North America, but hybrids are actually going up in value, due to the whole micro-chip shortage, so there’s quite a bit of demand right now for hybrids, and we’re seeing a large amount of people trading in their used hybrids for a newer model, because of the accrued value.

That's the thing, no auto makers are pushing hybrids in my country, not even Toyota. Yet now the likes of Hyundai jumped straight to EVs, which does sound cooler and more hip for the FOMO rich people (we have fe rich people owning Tesla here), but imo is completely not ideal in the current market condition. Oh well, maybe it's just for show to gain some regulatory/tax advantage. For consumers, EVs do bering one advantage, free from even-odd restrictions on certain roads, although the government lift that restrictions during the pandemic.

Personally, if hybrids are being sold in my country, I would be interested. We have a lot of traffic in the city, so a hybrid will be advantageous, while access to fuel is easy utilizing existing infrastructure of fuel stations.