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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

No interest in a hybrid. It’s got to carry two separate power sources (engine and battery). So that’s inefficient straight away. Too heavy (not to mention the handling will be awful). Then you will still have all the costs associated with a IC and the electric system on top.
The price needs to come way down before I’m looking at an electric vehicle.
 
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About hybrids… we bought in 2018 a brand new released 2019 Honda Insight. They told us it would need a 1500 mile learning curve for best mileage and had us watch a 5 minute Video. We did exactly everything. When the car reached 10k it went to ****. MPG went from 50 in town down to 30. Highway was 54. Down to 28. Took it in they kept it for 3 weeks. They found nothing but noted the reduction in MPG. We ended up getting a 2020 Civic EX-L. MPG is 34 city. 41 Highway.
 
If the vehicle had just a tad more power, I would seriously consider getting a 2021 Nissan Versa SR. Decent economy without the complications of a hybrid drivetrain.
 
MaxinMusicCity said:
When HELL FREEZES OVER I will consider buying an electric car. People seem to be unaware that Windmills and Solar Cells are not going to be sufficient to power a national fleet of such cars. One only needs to look at Texas' recent experience with relying on such a source. So Coal and Oil are still king of the energy hill. I'll stick with gas thank you.
Click to expand...
The Texas power grid collapsed because their natural gas facilities weren't winterized, so their gas pipelines froze, and then without grid power, their gas wells couldn't pump gas, and the power plants hadn't bothered stockpiling any on-site because they figured they could it on-demand from the wells. Blaming it on renewable sources like wind and solar is a complete and blatant lie. See numerous articles about it like ones in The Texas Tribune and Popular Science.
 
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We just replaced my wife's 2007 Camry with a Prius Prime, and she likes it a lot. The electric range doesn't quite cover her round trip commute but almost.

I'm almost certain I'd like an EV for my next car (current one is 9+ years old, so soonish). We just installed solar, so the only fuel "cost" will be the opportunity cost of not selling excess power back to the grid.

I do wonder if it's the right time to go EV, though. it seems likes every manufacturer is just now ramping up their EV offerings; there might be 2 or 3x as many good choices out there by this time next year. I'd also love to see battery tech move a little further.

Two question for Tesla owners (since that's the obvious choice at the moment):
- how do you find using the touchscreen for everything? I feel like I'd really struggle to get used to having to use a screen for things like changing the music or the climate control
- how is the road noise, specifically on the 3 and Y? I've heard mixed things. My current car has a lot of road noise, and it's a real annoyance I'd not want to repeat.
@AustinIllini (maybe you could weigh in since your house has both a 3 and a Y!)
 
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PracticalMac said:
I am SOOOOO ready to get an EV.

What you fine folks think?
Click to expand...
I have had the opportunity to drive a Chevy Bolt for 3 months and also drive a Tesla model 3 on a longer road trip.

We have a Prius Hybrid 2004 (54mpg in summer) and a Nissan Rogue (27mpg).

Bolt: It was a an interesting learning experience. Got to understand more about charging at home and at various locations using both AC and DC charging. My commute is 27 miles each way. Charging at home more than covers it.​
​
But charging the Bolt can take time. When I first got the car (borrowed from my brother who wasn't going to use it for awhile) I didn't plug it in right away. I figured I would plug it in a day or two later, and I would go to the local grocery store that has a charging station and let it charge while I shopped. I was in the store for about 25 minutes and came back and saw it just added a few miles to it -- an eye opener. So then I just got into the habit of plugging it in when I pulled into my garage. Then I never really worried about it.​
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I drove with regenerative braking which took some getting used to but really got the hang of it in a few days. Braking is done by the electric motor rather than mechanical brakes -- take your foot off the accelerator and the car slows down instead of coasting. Asked my wife if she was bothered by the "ride" when using this mode and she said no.​
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Overall my experience was positive. Liked the Apple CarPlay integration. Liked that it was very quite inside. And surprised that it had great acceleration, you could step on the accelerator and really move.​

Tesla: It was only for a two days. Driving from Minneapolis to Fargo to the Canadian border. I was the driver for a day and a half and a passenger for a day and a half. Driving the car was unremarkable.​
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I thought the fact that there is no display in front of you to show you your speed was a little disconcerting. Not a fan of having to look over at the center of the dash for that. I thought the power steering was a little slippery -- like I was over controlling it.​
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I tried the driver assist or whatever they call the feature to keep you in the lane (not autopilot -- that 10K upgrade wasn't on the car). It required you to jiggle the steering wheel every few minutes to let the car know you were paying attention. If you didn't it would turn off. Doesn't sound bad when I write that, but when it turned off the car would swerve a bit. Very disconcerting.​
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When I was a passenger the driver liked to use this feature. It was very distracting and nerve racking. I told them if I went on another trip with them in this car, they would have to promise not to use it or I would not be going.​
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It doesn't support CarPlay. So when I was listening to a book there were times when the Tesla was talking to me over the narrator of the book. Seemed strange.​
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Charging was er... interesting. Tesla's navigation system will automatically route you via their Superchargers. That was nice. The first day no stress. But then when we headed to the Canadian border (which is closed right now) the Tesla said that we can charge in Winnipeg. Except we couldn't -- the border is closed.​
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The car owner (who was driving another car up to the border) had figured out that we could make it to the border and then halfway back. At the halfway point we would charge at a non-Tesla charger (they had a plug adaptor) while we had lunch and then make it back to our starting point in Fargo where there are Superchargers.​
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What they didn't plan for was me traveling at the posted speed limit -- 75mph -- rather than the more efficient 65. So when I got to the border we didn't have enough juice to go to the half way point as planned. Instead we had to go to another place slightly out of the way, charge while having lunch, then head to another place closer to Fargo, charge and have some snacks, then drive to Fargo.​
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There are supposed to be more Superchargers installed in the area but there hasn't been any movement on that for a year or so.​

So while I was ready to be impressed with the Tesla, I was not. That's my personal experience. I did like driving the Bolt and as we consider replacing the Prius, the experience with the Bolt has me convinced that will probably replace it with an electric as we have the Rogue for extended trips.

Charging is still a little bit like being a pioneer in some parts of the country but my experience around town in Minneapolis has been good.

I was also able to join a local EV group on Facebook which has been useful in getting honest information.
 
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hodad66 said:
pretty simple, reducing carbon emissions..........
Click to expand...
Is it?

"...The zero-emissions tag is often considered unfair and can be misleading. Because even if electric vehicles don’t release any emissions on the road, the batteries inside them have their share of impact. Also, cars powered by electric grids that run mostly on fossil fuels might not emit on the go, but emissions have still taken place in some distant power-plant.

...Tens of hundreds of charging and discharging cycles after, what happens when a battery is too worn out for driving? What will happen to the 250,000 tons of waste that will result from the 1 million electric vehicles sold (only) 2017...

...The extraction of rare earth minerals for electric car batteries. For instance, if we consider the two main modes of primary production, “it takes 250 tons of the mineral ore spodumene when mined, or 750 tons of mineral-rich brine to produce one ton of lithium“. Just like that.

...The water demand to process lithium produced in this way is very high: a ton of lithium requires 1,900 tons of water to extract, which is consumed by evaporation..."

(Source)
 
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Ulenspiegel said:
Is it?

"...The zero-emissions tag is often considered unfair and can be misleading. Because even if electric vehicles don’t release any emissions on the road, the batteries inside them have their share of impact. Also, cars powered by electric grids that run mostly on fossil fuels might not emit on the go, but emissions have still taken place in some distant power-plant.

...Tens of hundreds of charging and discharging cycles after, what happens when a battery is too worn out for driving? What will happen to the 250,000 tons of waste that will result from the 1 million electric vehicles sold (only) 2017...

...The extraction of rare earth minerals for electric car batteries. For instance, if we consider the two main modes of primary production, “it takes 250 tons of the mineral ore spodumene when mined, or 750 tons of mineral-rich brine to produce one ton of lithium“. Just like that.

...The water demand to process lithium produced in this way is very high: a ton of lithium requires 1,900 tons of water to extract, which is consumed by evaporation..."

(Source)
Click to expand...
OK so we just keep spewing old, carbon by the ton? Battery technology is and WILL
be changing dramatically in the coming decade. The viewpoint kind of depends on
which stock you hold. :cool:
 
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Battery technology is changing quickly; I might rent an EV, but not buy. Drive it for for three years and rent a new EV with a then standard 600 mile range. And more manufacturers will have an EV.
 
rumorguy said:
Battery technology is changing quickly; I might rent an EV, but not buy. Drive it for for three years and rent a new EV with a then standard 600 mile range. And more manufacturers will have an EV.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I have done....... 4 EVs & 4 leases.......
 
hodad66 said:
OK so we just keep spewing old, carbon by the ton? Battery technology is and WILL
be changing dramatically in the coming decade. The viewpoint kind of depends on
which stock you hold. :cool:
Click to expand...
Most probably "WLL". In the future.

What does more damage the batteries used (production, waste etc.) or carbon emission is an interesting and challenging questions.
 
Ulenspiegel said:
Is it?

"...The zero-emissions tag is often considered unfair and can be misleading. Because even if electric vehicles don’t release any emissions on the road, the batteries inside them have their share of impact. Also, cars powered by electric grids that run mostly on fossil fuels might not emit on the go, but emissions have still taken place in some distant power-plant.
Click to expand...
The net result is simple:
EVs reduce CO2 emissions over its life span.
EV's may have a longer life spawn then gasoline cars too (for now it looks to be about the same).

Ulenspiegel said:
...Tens of hundreds of charging and discharging cycles after, what happens when a battery is too worn out for driving? What will happen to the 250,000 tons of waste that will result from the 1 million electric vehicles sold (only) 2017...
Click to expand...
Batteries are proving to have a longer life spawn than first estimated.
As batteries degrade (idea word to use), the range diminishes.
Even at 40% of original capacity, EV will still be fine for neighborhood driving.

The report is very wrong with this quote
"One of the main criticisms made to electric cars and electric vehicles in general has to do with their batteries. These lithium-ion batteries (LIBs) are very much like a scaled-up version of a smartphone’s battery."

At best that is misleading. There are dozens, close to 100, different Li-ion battery designs and formulas. What is in your cell phone cannot be used in EV's.

Ulenspiegel said:
...The extraction of rare earth minerals for electric car batteries. For instance, if we consider the two main modes of primary production, “it takes 250 tons of the mineral ore spodumene when mined, or 750 tons of mineral-rich brine to produce one ton of lithium“. Just like that.
Click to expand...
How does that compare with gasoline cars?
And the battery can be fully recycled, the minerals used to make a new one.
It is just like lead-acid batteries.
Battery structure breaks down, so they need to be rebuilt.
Ulenspiegel said:
...The water demand to process lithium produced in this way is very high: a ton of lithium requires 1,900 tons of water to extract, which is consumed by evaporation..."
Click to expand...
...which then returns to earth as rain.
Note: evaporation is usually done by solar energy, direct sun.


YES, EV's are not a panacea, but the net benefits are clearly more than the costs.
Installing PV's on roofs will be the needed local power source supplament the new demand.
 
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Honestly, the idea of purchasing an electric car has come to my mind a few times over the past year or so. Even more so with working from home.
Just not sure on a date/timeline. In all honesty, if the Mustang Mach-E, had some GT 'exhaust' sounds, well, let's just say Ford would be getting my hard earned money...
 
PracticalMac said:
The net result is simple:
EVs reduce CO2 emissions over its life span.
EV's may have a longer life spawn then gasoline cars too (for now it looks to be about the same).


Batteries are proving to have a longer life spawn than first estimated.
As batteries degrade (idea word to use), the range diminishes.
Even at 40% of original capacity, EV will still be fine for neighborhood driving.

The report is very wrong with this quote
"One of the main criticisms made to electric cars and electric vehicles in general has to do with their batteries. These lithium-ion batteries (LIBs) are very much like a scaled-up version of a smartphone’s battery."

At best that is misleading. There are dozens, close to 100, different Li-ion battery designs and formulas. What is in your cell phone cannot be used in EV's.


How does that compare with gasoline cars?
And the battery can be fully recycled, the minerals used to make a new one.
It is just like lead-acid batteries.
Battery structure breaks down, so they need to be rebuilt.

...which then returns to earth as rain.
Note: evaporation is usually done by solar energy, direct sun.


YES, EV's are not a panacea, but the net benefits are clearly more than the costs.
Installing PV's on roofs will be the needed local power source supplament the new demand.
Click to expand...

Recycling of used batteries in question is extremely difficult, dangerous and expensive. In most cases even now some parts are not recycled because it needs special installations and men labour.

I strongly recommend to read once again the article from the beginning to the end. I know it is long, but worth it and it will help you to avoid any misinterpretation.

Just one example that you made (partial) reference to:

"...These lithium-ion batteries (LIBs) are very much like a scaled-up version of a smartphone’s battery. Only electric vehicles s don’t use a single battery like a phone. Instead, they use a pack comprised of thousands of individual lithium-ion cells working together. Be it on a small or a large scale, these batteries have significant environmental and social impacts across their lifecycle."

It is the whole paragraph. I would like to pay your attention to the sentence in bold. By the way where does it say that it uses cell-phone batteries?

Costs for whom?

Yes, the benefits are clearly advantageous for those who produce EVs and PV systems as well.

Meanwhile they succeed degrading the real challenge of the new car technology to the environment.

We can agree to disagree.
 
We have had a 2017 Volt for 3 years and love it. Our driving is largely in town (Tucson) and we routinely run on electric only. With about 20K miles, there has been only one problem requiring service (power battery coolant low).

Charges fully on 110 in 15 hours or so, and we get 60+ miles of electric driving in warmer months. Automatic changeover to the small gas engine when electric runs out is nearly seamless. As others have said, a blast to drive on electric. About 300+ miles on gas, so total range about 350+.

Used ones go for around 20K. Looking for another plug-in hybrid EV (PHEV) to replace a gas-only car. Until EV infrastructure is built out, PHEVs are the way to go, IMO.
 
Test drove a model 3 this weekend, and it will be my next car. Exceeded my expectations in almost every respect. I wish there were a few more physical controls on the dashboard, but it wasn’t as hard to adjust as I thought it would be, even on a 30 min test drive. Stellar vehicle all around.
 
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Apple fanboy said:
No interest in a hybrid. It’s got to carry two separate power sources (engine and battery). So that’s inefficient straight away. Too heavy (not to mention the handling will be awful). Then you will still have all the costs associated with a IC and the electric system on top.
The price needs to come way down before I’m looking at an electric vehicle.
Click to expand...
I concur, however the plug-in Hybrid is acceptable.
Top off with grid, use gas when needed.
Chevy Bolt Volt was great, in that regard.

In end, not get Hybrid, as my small car was quite full efficient.
 
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