That was my boss. Used to drive to McDonalds and walk home whilst it charged for free as he got 6 months free charging with his MG 4. I mean the guy is a millionaire. Not even like he ate the food as it’s not Kosher.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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Then consider sticking with an ICE car for the time being. You can use DC fast chargers but it’s just as annoying as pumping gas and takes a little bit longer. If you just love a certain EV or you’re trying to get away from ICE vehicles it’s doable but not convenient
No it’s going to be worse. EV infrastructure will be better so more charging will be available.
Charging at DCFC due to free charging is not something I would ever due unless it’s part of a trip or on the way. Would never go out of my way. But that’s me.
A lot of people do this. Automakers did this as an incentive to buy an EV but many are rolling it back. It’s causes chaos because people who actually need to use the chargers can’t
Always Be Charging (ABC) was promulgated by Musk in the very early days of Tesla. Given that Teslas have a significant phantom drain while sitting around unused, that does keep the battery topped off at whatever percent you set. I much prefer the CWIFLI (Charge When I Feel Like It) approach that works very well for our Ioniq5 and Ioniq6, and travel needs.
Teslas as a rule do not have significant phantom drain. Phantom drain implies battery drain from unknown causes and that largely does not happen.
That doesn’t mean it has never happened in the past.
I started with the 1st gen Prius in 2001, moved to the second gen Prius in 2004, and then to a used 2012 Prius Plug-In in 2015.
After an accident, the Prius Plug-In had some problems, so I wanted to get a new car. I thought about an EV or another plug-in but the government EV rebates are no longer available. Given that I don't drive a lot compared to the average, the price premium for an EV and plug-in didn't make much sense to me, and furthermore, some of the cars I might have considered didn't have all the features I wanted anyway. Plus for the existing Plug-In I had just been using a portable Level 1 charger mounted semi-permanently outside. (I don't have a garage.) I asked an electrician and they said to install a Level 2 charger where I wanted it would have been thousands of CA$. And I also sometimes find dealing with the charger outside in Canadian winters kind of annoying mainly because of snow accumulation and ice formation.
So, despite driving a plug-in for the last decade, this year I went back to a non-plug-in hybrid, the 2025 Toyota Camry XSE AWD. I am very pleased with the car, and it suits my needs perfectly. BTW, I'm very glad I didn't get a used 2022-2023 Camry, because the wired CarPlay would have driven me nuts. The Camry finally got wireless CarPlay in 2025. I know some people use third party dongles to convert their wired CarPlay to wireless in older cars, but that's a kludge, and some people running the iOS 26 betas are saying some of those dongles are having issues with the new OS.
After an accident, the Prius Plug-In had some problems, so I wanted to get a new car. I thought about an EV or another plug-in but the government EV rebates are no longer available. Given that I don't drive a lot compared to the average, the price premium for an EV and plug-in didn't make much sense to me, and furthermore, some of the cars I might have considered didn't have all the features I wanted anyway. Plus for the existing Plug-In I had just been using a portable Level 1 charger mounted semi-permanently outside. (I don't have a garage.) I asked an electrician and they said to install a Level 2 charger where I wanted it would have been thousands of CA$. And I also sometimes find dealing with the charger outside in Canadian winters kind of annoying mainly because of snow accumulation and ice formation.
So, despite driving a plug-in for the last decade, this year I went back to a non-plug-in hybrid, the 2025 Toyota Camry XSE AWD. I am very pleased with the car, and it suits my needs perfectly. BTW, I'm very glad I didn't get a used 2022-2023 Camry, because the wired CarPlay would have driven me nuts. The Camry finally got wireless CarPlay in 2025. I know some people use third party dongles to convert their wired CarPlay to wireless in older cars, but that's a kludge, and some people running the iOS 26 betas are saying some of those dongles are having issues with the new OS.
This is also an infrastructure concern too. My workplace had only 2 chargers, which people could use for free. When they were first installed it usually didn't really matter there were only 2 since only one of the executives had an EV and a few other people working there had EVs or plug-ins, and they all worked staggered hours. Then a few years went by and the numbers of EVs and plug-ins really went up, to the point that I'd never be able to charge my car because I arrived later in the morning. Then another person there bought a BMW i8, but would arrive before 6 in the morning so would always occupy one of the chargers. The employees there revolted, saying if he can afford to buy a i8, then he doesn't need to use the free charging at work when other people making a fraction of his pay and driving Leafs can't charge. So he stopped charging his car at work just so he wouldn't piss off the employees.
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Electrician is here finishing up the Tesla home charger install. Getting 48 amps and 245 volts currently while charging the Model 3. Very happy to have it complete.
So our two bosses and me are the only EV owners. One never charges at work. The other does. But my hours are 8-4:30 so I’m always in before them. Always in before nearly everyone tbh.I started with the 1st gen Prius in 2001, moved to the second gen Prius in 2004, and then to a used 2012 Prius Plug-In in 2015.
After an accident, the Prius Plug-In had some problems, so I wanted to get a new car. I thought about an EV or another plug-in but the government EV rebates are no longer available. Given that I don't drive a lot compared to the average, the price premium for an EV and plug-in didn't make much sense to me, and furthermore, some of the cars I might have considered didn't have all the features I wanted anyway. Plus for the existing Plug-In I had just been using a portable Level 1 charger mounted semi-permanently outside. (I don't have a garage.) I asked an electrician and they said to install a Level 2 charger where I wanted it would have been thousands of CA$. And I also sometimes find dealing with the charger outside in Canadian winters kind of annoying mainly because of snow accumulation and ice formation.
So, despite driving a plug-in for the last decade, this year I went back to a non-plug-in hybrid, the 2025 Toyota Camry XSE AWD. I am very pleased with the car, and it suits my needs perfectly. BTW, I'm very glad I didn't get a used 2022-2023 Camry, because the wired CarPlay would have driven me nuts. The Camry finally got wireless CarPlay in 2025. I know some people use third party dongles to convert their wired CarPlay to wireless in older cars, but that's a kludge, and some people running the iOS 26 betas are saying some of those dongles are having issues with the new OS.
This is also an infrastructure concern too. My workplace had only 2 chargers, which people could use for free. When they were first installed it usually didn't really matter there were only 2 since only one of the executives had an EV and a few other people working there had EVs or plug-ins, and they all worked staggered hours. Then a few years went by and the numbers of EVs and plug-ins really went up, to the point that I'd never be able to charge my car because I arrived later in the morning. Then another person there bought a BMW i8, but would arrive before 6 in the morning so would always occupy one of the chargers. The employees there revolted, saying if he can afford to buy a i8, then he doesn't need to use the free charging at work when other people making a fraction of his pay and driving Leafs can't charge. So he stopped charging his car at work just so he wouldn't piss off the employees.
But fortunately I only have to go into the office once a week. So that’s all the charging I need 9 times out of 10.
I have a fast charger at home, but only use it to charge to 100% when going on a long journey. Or if I get home without enough to get to work. Then I just top it up enough to get to work.
It all depends on how many miles are driven. For some owners the supplied plugin 120v charger works fine for their daily use, ABC defined. Then visiting charging stations occasionally if needed. I agree if no charging at home buy a Hybrid or ICE. Oil cartels have successfully stalled EV infrastructure, again.
I agree that if you don’t drive much, a regular 120v outlet works. I don’t think it’s ideal for someone who drives a lot, someone who makes trips all throughout the day reducing charging time at home or those in severe cold climates.
My answer to buy an ICE vehicle was to his question if he didn’t have charging at home or work. Meaning he would only be using DC fast charging. I’ve done it and it’s doable but inconvenient.
IMO most EV charging infrastructure projects are misguided. There needs to be more of a focus on Level 2 AC charging instead of DC fast charging. It is easy to set up compared to DC fast charging infrastructure. Even for people who live in apartments, they could easily charge at work. Most people are at work for eight straight hours and sometimes longer.
DC fast charging should only be needed for road trips. Meaning for most people, the one time per year they go visit family.
I am not that optimistic (anymore) about the EV infrastructure, sure, it is getting better but way too slow. Come visit the greater LA area and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
I hope I’m wrong though
I agree and feel the same.
One exception is that my local Costco opened a 10 station EA a few months ago and I have free charging (30 min limit) with my ioniq 5. So I charged there a few times while shopping (it’s challenging to be in and out of Costco in less than 30 min
). But they changed pricing in such a way that they no longer accept my free “premium plan”, so there is no reason for me anymore to charge there as it’s more expensive than home.I agree. I followed ABC when I was commuting 100 miles/day, but now retired, CWIFLI rules.
Our work chargers are AC not DC. Nearly all I’ve seen at other offices are. Who’s installing DC rapid chargers in office car parks?
My rate with a recent price hike is .16kwh. I costs me about $1.25 a day for my commuting. I’ve gotten into the habit of plugging in when the car is in the garage. Even if I go out for a quick trip to the store. Unplug then plug back in. So I ABC not CWIFLI. lolI agree and feel the same.
One exception is that my local Costco opened a 10 station EA a few months ago and I have free charging (30 min limit) with my ioniq 5. So I charged there a few times while shopping (it’s challenging to be in and out of Costco in less than 30 min
my average rate is .38$/kWh. While I'm on a TOU and charge only at off-peak, I don't bother with the exact charging cost, so the .38 is the total kWh divided by cost per month. Compared to Costco EA (.56) and the other nearby EA/EVGo/SuC (.66-.72) I'm obviously still better off at home.
But there are days where I don't drive at all, or just run some errands locally of 5 miles or so, I usually plug in when I'm near or below 70% ...
It’s kind of like a chicken before the egg scenario. Infrastructure needs to be built, but people are afraid to build infrastructure without enough electric vehicles out there. If I have a company with 25 employees and only one has an EV do I really want to build infrastructure for one employee? I think that will slowly change, but who knows I’m not Nostradamus.
No, I don’t mean chargers at work, but rather most of the time people talk about infrastructure it’s DC fast chargers. Even when the US government spent billions of dollars it was for DC fast chargers. I’m not saying that’s not needed, but I think level two AC charging should be prioritized. Just because it doesn’t cost tens of thousands of dollars for a single charger. For the cost of one DC fast charger they could probably install 20 AC chargers. For example, instead of the government trying to spend billions hiring contractors to build DC fast chargers, they could give companies tax credits for AC chargers for their employees. Eventually, I think even customers will have access to this charging, but just because employees are there for eight hours, it makes sense to start there.
As long as you don’t become the type that CWYFLI and with a hybrid or max 50kW car goes to DC fast chargers and sits in their vehicle until 100% full. Had a few of those last week. I stopper trying to explain that it’s pointless as they simply won’t get it.
I just don’t plug in every time I come home, mostly only when I’m below 70% or so or before a longer trip.
I r experienced a “jogger” last year, I needed to charge to reach my destination, it was super hot, 112F, it was a DCFC in a Walmart parking lot, only 1/6 was working. A couple came to the car loading some bags so I thought ok but they then proceeded to sit in the car and charge to 100% despite me sitting right there waiting and several others too, grrr.
To avoidthat, quite a few in the greater LA area limit charging to 85% and then there is an idle fee (40 cents or so) after a 10 min grace period.
From early 2022 to late 2023 my wife drove our EV 50 miles one way every day - her work gave her a 20 amp outlet and we plugged into our 15 amp outlet in the garage at home. This worked for us - we were lucky the work charging was free.
Biggest complaint I have as an EV owner since 2022? Cost and lack of infrastructure.
In 2022 I could get free chargers all over (malls, doctors offices, etc). I could charge and pay $.13-$.20/kWh at superchargers, city chargers, no problem. Now? $.50+/kWh from 8am - 11pm for the most part. 3rd party chargers - $.60-$.70/kWh. Any free chargers (mostly gone now) are 100% packed 24/7 by people who show up, plug in, then leave in a gasser or another car.
Now, most mall / office charging providers have hefty fees after 3 hours of charging to discourage long usage. And yes, even Superchargers are implementing the $.50/min fees past 80% charging to discourage the 100% chargers if most stalls are in use. (I can go from 15% to 80% faster than it takes to go from 80% to 100%).
Most 3rd party charging providers have 3-4 spots and have a line, and are full of people who pull up then spend 20 mins trying to figure out how to charge, or charge to 100% when they don't need to. Also, more than not, they'll have a station out, and it'll be out for months before it is repaired. Don't even think about charging at these places if you have a Tesla - one way to make a lot of enemies - unless it is not being used much.
Apartment complexes (like ours here in NorCal) charge $.85/kWh for their level 2 chargers claiming that they are losing money on them - meanwhile ChargePoint headquarters nearby offers a massive parking lot full of $.30/kWh level 2 chargers - nearby city level 2 chargers are $.50/kWh. (All of these were $.25/kWh when we moved here in 2023)...............
California BADLY needs more chargers or just wall outlets to plug into and .... they really need to stop raising electrical prices... it's cheaper to drive an SUV at CA gas prices at this point.
I don't regret owning an EV (2 now) but CA isn't helping that.
Biggest complaint I have as an EV owner since 2022? Cost and lack of infrastructure.
In 2022 I could get free chargers all over (malls, doctors offices, etc). I could charge and pay $.13-$.20/kWh at superchargers, city chargers, no problem. Now? $.50+/kWh from 8am - 11pm for the most part. 3rd party chargers - $.60-$.70/kWh. Any free chargers (mostly gone now) are 100% packed 24/7 by people who show up, plug in, then leave in a gasser or another car.
Now, most mall / office charging providers have hefty fees after 3 hours of charging to discourage long usage. And yes, even Superchargers are implementing the $.50/min fees past 80% charging to discourage the 100% chargers if most stalls are in use. (I can go from 15% to 80% faster than it takes to go from 80% to 100%).
Most 3rd party charging providers have 3-4 spots and have a line, and are full of people who pull up then spend 20 mins trying to figure out how to charge, or charge to 100% when they don't need to. Also, more than not, they'll have a station out, and it'll be out for months before it is repaired. Don't even think about charging at these places if you have a Tesla - one way to make a lot of enemies - unless it is not being used much.
Apartment complexes (like ours here in NorCal) charge $.85/kWh for their level 2 chargers claiming that they are losing money on them - meanwhile ChargePoint headquarters nearby offers a massive parking lot full of $.30/kWh level 2 chargers - nearby city level 2 chargers are $.50/kWh. (All of these were $.25/kWh when we moved here in 2023)...............
California BADLY needs more chargers or just wall outlets to plug into and .... they really need to stop raising electrical prices... it's cheaper to drive an SUV at CA gas prices at this point.
I don't regret owning an EV (2 now) but CA isn't helping that.
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This... I would pay for the installation of a 20 amp outlet where I park at work and home. I hear it's not that expensive to install and set up. But it would solve all my charging problems...
I think there was a lot of blocking of chargers being installed early on which means California are playing catch up with where they should be.From early 2022 to late 2023 my wife drove our EV 50 miles one way every day - her work gave her a 20 amp outlet and we plugged into our 15 amp outlet in the garage at home. This worked for us - we were lucky the work charging was free.
Biggest complaint I have as an EV owner since 2022? Cost and lack of infrastructure.
In 2022 I could get free chargers all over (malls, doctors offices, etc). I could charge and pay $.13-$.20/kWh at superchargers, city chargers, no problem. Now? $.50+/kWh from 8am - 11pm for the most part. 3rd party chargers - $.60-$.70/kWh. Any free chargers (mostly gone now) are 100% packed 24/7 by people who show up, plug in, then leave in a gasser or another car.
Now, most mall / office charging providers have hefty fees after 3 hours of charging to discourage long usage. And yes, even Superchargers are implementing the $.50/min fees past 80% charging to discourage the 100% chargers if most stalls are in use. (I can go from 15% to 80% faster than it takes to go from 80% to 100%).
Most 3rd party charging providers have 3-4 spots and have a line, and are full of people who pull up then spend 20 mins trying to figure out how to charge, or charge to 100% when they don't need to. Also, more than not, they'll have a station out, and it'll be out for months before it is repaired. Don't even think about charging at these places if you have a Tesla - one way to make a lot of enemies - unless it is not being used much.
Apartment complexes (like ours here in NorCal) charge $.85/kWh for their level 2 chargers claiming that they are losing money on them - meanwhile ChargePoint headquarters nearby offers a massive parking lot full of $.30/kWh level 2 chargers - nearby city level 2 chargers are $.50/kWh. (All of these were $.25/kWh when we moved here in 2023)...............
California BADLY needs more chargers or just wall outlets to plug into and .... they really need to stop raising electrical prices... it's cheaper to drive an SUV at CA gas prices at this point.
I don't regret owning an EV (2 now) but CA isn't helping that.
I hear you on people who don’t know how to use a charger though. I think I end up helping an EV driver nearly every time I stop (which isn’t often to be fair) get connected.
That rate at your apartment complex is outrageous, no doubt.From early 2022 to late 2023 my wife drove our EV 50 miles one way every day - her work gave her a 20 amp outlet and we plugged into our 15 amp outlet in the garage at home. This worked for us - we were lucky the work charging was free.
Biggest complaint I have as an EV owner since 2022? Cost and lack of infrastructure.
In 2022 I could get free chargers all over (malls, doctors offices, etc). I could charge and pay $.13-$.20/kWh at superchargers, city chargers, no problem. Now? $.50+/kWh from 8am - 11pm for the most part. 3rd party chargers - $.60-$.70/kWh. Any free chargers (mostly gone now) are 100% packed 24/7 by people who show up, plug in, then leave in a gasser or another car.
Now, most mall / office charging providers have hefty fees after 3 hours of charging to discourage long usage. And yes, even Superchargers are implementing the $.50/min fees past 80% charging to discourage the 100% chargers if most stalls are in use. (I can go from 15% to 80% faster than it takes to go from 80% to 100%).
Most 3rd party charging providers have 3-4 spots and have a line, and are full of people who pull up then spend 20 mins trying to figure out how to charge, or charge to 100% when they don't need to. Also, more than not, they'll have a station out, and it'll be out for months before it is repaired. Don't even think about charging at these places if you have a Tesla - one way to make a lot of enemies - unless it is not being used much.
Apartment complexes (like ours here in NorCal) charge $.85/kWh for their level 2 chargers claiming that they are losing money on them - meanwhile ChargePoint headquarters nearby offers a massive parking lot full of $.30/kWh level 2 chargers - nearby city level 2 chargers are $.50/kWh. (All of these were $.25/kWh when we moved here in 2023)...............
California BADLY needs more chargers or just wall outlets to plug into and .... they really need to stop raising electrical prices... it's cheaper to drive an SUV at CA gas prices at this point.
I don't regret owning an EV (2 now) but CA isn't helping that.
I think the biggest problem right now is "free" charging, whether that is a local L2 or those auto maufacturers giving the incentive (I do have that).
Charging should never be free, there is not a single gas station that I have ever heard of where you get free gas - it creates "hoggers"...
yes, infrastructure needs a lot of improvements, at the travel corridors 350kW are needed but in cities we need more options, eg if there is a 350 station near a restaurant, I'll charge up; in 20 min, too long to wait and way to short for a nice meal, same with shopping and such.
and yes, some of these rates are super high now, as I mentioned above I pay average $0.38/kWh at home, so in my mind $.50 - $.60 seems "reasonable. Chargers require infrastructure that needs to be paid for , over time.
I don't really know, but from what I've read gas stations don't make money from selling gasoline but rather from all the other stuff that a lot of them offer. Yet, EV charging stations are seemingly put "wherever" and no other services offered, examples are in a shopping mall, at the likes of Walmarts etc, but you don't even get an opportunity to clean your windshields.
Still a long road ahead ...