I'm not a complete hater of touchscreens. I have a 6.2 inch Sony unit in my car, with Apple CarPlay. I can perform most actions by the steering wheel, it gives me the added benefit of navigation and Siri through CarPlay mainly works for senidng messages, reading messages etc. The way I see it is existing audio systems with small displays were even more difficult to achieve a lot of tasks on than a touchscreen. I don't feel the same about things like gear selection, indication and AC controls.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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I'm not a complete hater of touchscreens. I have a 6.2 inch Sony unit in my car, with Apple CarPlay. I can perform most actions by the steering wheel, it gives me the added benefit of navigation and Siri through CarPlay mainly works for senidng messages, reading messages etc. The way I see it is existing audio systems with small displays were even more difficult to achieve a lot of tasks on than a touchscreen. I don't feel the same about things like gear selection, indication and AC controls.
I think some people are under the notion that electric cars all about ‘saving fuel resources’ or ‘keeping our environment pollution free’ should be desirable reasons why someone would want an EV. Honestly, I (And I assume others) don’t care about any environmental factors in my opinion, I want an electric car because it’s an investment. I would never consider an internal combustion car an investment, unless it’s a specific ‘one off design’, Limited edition model that was made in a very small number, ect. I would consider an EV an investment, because the cost savings from fuel, free of regulatory maintenance, ect. I think it’s perfectly safe to assume that an electric vehicle could at least achieve 10 years out of the batteries before either replacement or malfunction, which I doubt most people will even keep an EV 10 years before they decided to trade it in for something else or a newer model. I don’t even care necessarily about the performance of EV’s with the ‘instant acceleration’, I just like the idea of not worrying about belts cracking, fluid leaking, oil changes, etc. I have a variety of sports cars that I maintain, all of which I enjoy driving, but are an absolute chore to maintain. So the idea of an EV for a different type of driving experience, is what really is attractive to me.
Also, I realize everybody has different budget constraints, but I don’t consider EV’s to be that expensive, the entry level RWD Model 3 starts at like $37,000, the new Ford F-150 Lightning truck it will start at about $39,000. Obviously, if you want a higher trim, those options are available for those who want certain aesthetic touches, performance, etc. Just like the ICE market, we all have options. But I don’t think it’s completely out of range where it’s not affordable, more or less, when you factor tax incentives and trade-ins that others take advantage of with personal vehicles, naturally that will bring the price down.
Also, I realize everybody has different budget constraints, but I don’t consider EV’s to be that expensive, the entry level RWD Model 3 starts at like $37,000, the new Ford F-150 Lightning truck it will start at about $39,000. Obviously, if you want a higher trim, those options are available for those who want certain aesthetic touches, performance, etc. Just like the ICE market, we all have options. But I don’t think it’s completely out of range where it’s not affordable, more or less, when you factor tax incentives and trade-ins that others take advantage of with personal vehicles, naturally that will bring the price down.
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Those matte screens that you’re referring to, are cheap and dated. They don’t have the equivalence of a brightness to the iPad like display in Tesla’s and they scratch easily, which also the iPad like display can achieve a much higher brightness and have a higher resolution. However, reflectivity with any display in any car will always be a problem with direct sunlight, there’s no real way around that, unless you have a significant window tint that would keep your interior darker and keep the sun out.
Well you could always have knobs, switches and dials for those controls you need whilst driving. Much safer that way.
You’d be surprised just how many people spend £5k-£20k on a car. Those EV’s you mention there might be attractive on the secondhand market in a couple of years, but for the average Joe I think they are still too high. Only when EV’s are competing in the Focus, Golf and Astra category are you going to see more interest with the mainstream. The couple that do compete at the moment, are pretty dreadful to be fair.
Agreed. The EV’s with a decent range are too expensive. As a city runabout even (like Mrs AFB uses), there are options. But given she does about 12 miles a week, I usually spend around £3-£4K when I renew her car.
At least moving here to the countryside she has doubled her mileage from where we used to live!
You constantly bring up ‘knobs, dials and switches’ why it’s safer, but you’ve openly stated you wouldn’t buy an EV, considering they use touch controls through the U.I. So your options are highly limited for an EV regardless and you’re not really an appropriate candidate. You’re probably better off with your old VW you own.
Like I said, Everyone has different pricing segments in what they can afford, some are just not interested in EV’s, being they’re demographic doesn’t support the network as much as other regions do. Also, I find quite a few people just don’t understand why they would ‘need’ an EV if they’re still comfortable with internal combustion. What we do know, manufacturers are finally putting more options to consumers. Over time, we will see pricing segments in all ranges, but we’re not there yet.
I like what Tesla is doing and they’re one of the most mature platforms in the EV sector. What works for me, may not work for someone else like I mentioned.
The overwhelming majority of EV purchases are driven by their lower environmental impact - even for performance vehicles. Tesla is very explicit that they exist in order to sell more environmentally sustainable automobiles. Even Formula One's stated reasons for embracing EV technology is explicitly to lower the sport's carbon footprint. Naturally, of course, automakers and consumers hope to have their cake and eat it too with both lower carbon footprints and better performance without increasing price much over ICE cars. I'm not contesting your reasoning, but you should realize that it is, at least for the present, not representative of the pressures driving the design, development, and marketing of EVs and EV tech.
EVs (as a whole) are still too expensive, recharging infrastructure is underdeveloped, and the vehicles have too many unknowns in terms of long-term reliability and running costs. Even if you don't care about the secondary market, realize that it has a huge impact on the new car market and the driving public more broadly.
I am hopeful that this can all improve substantially in the short to medium term. But the EV equivalent of a 'peoples' car' in the vein of the Model T or VW Beatle has yet to arrive. Maybe in the next 5 years we'll see it. Maybe 10. The sooner the better.
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Two of your points should be combined, because they’re directly related, not really separate issues. EVs are somewhat expensive, because I think there’s not enough of a market saturation to drive the prices down where we have a lot of entry-level models to gain more traction with the expansion of the infrastructure that has to grow. Plus, I assume with the R&D, manufacturing, all plays a role, until EV technology can mature, we won’t start seeing “$20,000” EV vehicles, but we are seeing the likes of Tesla bringing in an entry level EV, supposedly significantly cheaper under the RWD Model 3, Ford with the base model F-150 EV under $40k.
Also, I don’t mean to be dismissive, but the potential ‘uncertainty of reliability with these EV’s’ years into ownership is likely something that consumers considering these vehicles, probably don’t care about that point. If I’m in the market for an EV, it seems non-sensical to ponder ‘I wonder what kind of problems this car might have 7-8 years from now…..’ Lithium ion technology is generally very reliable and has matured quite a bit, and the only other problems notable is with the drive motors, and possibly some onboard electronics, but even with the core group of EV people that I know personally, [one of which has been an owner for over five years], have had nothing negative to say about their Tesla ownership. I can’t attest to the other manufacturers, I’m just using Tesla as a metric, being that they really are one of the early pioneers, who have greatly improved from the early days with manufacturing defects.
I’m not saying EV’s can’t post technical problems that could become very expensive, but I generally think most people within a minimum of five years, would have very few problems before they’re ready to upgrade or trade-in to a newer model.
In terms of actual usage what somebody would spend charging their vehicle a month at their home, my neighbor doesn’t spend more than ~$18 a month, and has saved thousands of dollars in fuel with zero maintenance . I think that says a lot about long-term investment —versus— cost of fuel, maintenance when you look at internal combustion.
I think it does, plenty of people keep cars for far beyond 7-8 years. The average age of cars in the US is 12.1 years! That means there are huge numbers of people keeping their cars well past 12.1 years.
The thing is though, if you're charging an electric vehicle off coal fired electricity its often worse for the environment than a hybrid.
The difference in your post that you misconstrued, plenty people keep internal combustion cars for 7-8 years or longer, and there’s a demographic of people that don’t that should be considered as well who don’t own ICE, however; there really is no metric to determine how long they’re keeping EV’s, because they haven’t been around long enough , therefore I don’t think people are translating “I shouldn’t buy an electric vehicle because it might have XYZ issues 8 to 9 years from now.” I genuinely don’t believe that is the logic people have, when most people will probably trade in a vehicle in for a newer model probably within five years seems almost standard.
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We’ve got 9 years before everybody has to own an EV though which isn’t a lot of time when the infrastructure is limited and manufacturers aren’t releasing affordable versions. The range is also a concern unless you can afford £70k. I’m sure this will start changing but in the past 7 years it’s really remained as we see it today. I am fine with a diesel car for now, but I also know by 2030 unless I own an EV, it’s going to be completely unaffordable to drive with emissions taxes and fuel costs. I’m a little worried car manufacturers aren’t going to supply enough affordable EV’s with a performance and range of vehicles we see on the roads today. It might be a bit of an enthusiasts thing right now, but it needs to be a mainstream reality and soon.
Personal reasons. A complicated set of specific reasons that lead me to a Tesla.
I have going to be going in to neck and back surgery. My daily driver at the time was an F350 Dually, still have it, but 1 ton pickups are NOT even close to one of the most comfortable rides on your body.
So I was looking for a better riding vehicle than I was currently driving.
I am a big tech nerd. I keep dumping "things" in to my truck. Delete, programmers, new lights, auto air ride, car play, just thing after thing.
I enjoy acceleration probably much more than outright speed. I've had lots of quick accelerating vehicles over the last 40 years. I enjoy that feeling.
I am not a Tesla salesman, meaning I'll give people one hell of a ride but when they go in to the what if sceneraios, I just say it is probably not for you, go get a Camry or a Tahoe or whatever it is you are legitimately wanting and be happy with that. I didn't buy this for a prupose outside of making myself happy.
Let's see... long trips? I haven't done a lot. I got it jsut before 2 surgeries that essentially had me quarantining for around 6-7 months at the end of 19 to mid 20. So I wasn't driving much. But it has over 20,000 with a few trips from Fort Worth to Oklahoma, to West Monroe, Lousiiana, to South Carolina. That last fairly big trip was around 2,200 mile round trip in a week with conferences in Nashville and staying with my dad for 3 days. Did the tail of the Dragon again... always a good road to drive and it was excellent weather that day. The chargers were quite plentiful.
Only one time did my son and I come across and cluster at a mall charger because almost half of the chargers had completely vacant cars for quite some time so it was the only charging hiccup across the entire round trip.
But no, I am no way a 'save-the-planet' waving righteous finger pointer. I just got the thing because it was a good fit for me at the particular time I was looking for something.
The other vehicle in the driveway is a twin-turbo V8 suv of my wife's and the 6.7 liter turbo'd straight piped coal roller if you floor it. The tesla replaced an AMG GT roadster, getting it and out is much easier. The GT had sex appeal and exhaust pops but that was about it.
Cybertruck will be making it's way to the driveway, we're pretty early reservation holders. It will not be replacing the F350. Those back angles on the Cybertruck keep anyone from putting in a 5th wheel but it is also a bit shy of being able to pull out 16k trailers. Might just be an addition. Might replace the wife's SUV. We'll decide pretty soon after delivery.
For anyone looking for someone to talk you into an EV.... don't buy one.
Once your own opinion become the sole reason for wanting one, then go looking.
I have going to be going in to neck and back surgery. My daily driver at the time was an F350 Dually, still have it, but 1 ton pickups are NOT even close to one of the most comfortable rides on your body.
So I was looking for a better riding vehicle than I was currently driving.
I am a big tech nerd. I keep dumping "things" in to my truck. Delete, programmers, new lights, auto air ride, car play, just thing after thing.
I enjoy acceleration probably much more than outright speed. I've had lots of quick accelerating vehicles over the last 40 years. I enjoy that feeling.
I am not a Tesla salesman, meaning I'll give people one hell of a ride but when they go in to the what if sceneraios, I just say it is probably not for you, go get a Camry or a Tahoe or whatever it is you are legitimately wanting and be happy with that. I didn't buy this for a prupose outside of making myself happy.
Let's see... long trips? I haven't done a lot. I got it jsut before 2 surgeries that essentially had me quarantining for around 6-7 months at the end of 19 to mid 20. So I wasn't driving much. But it has over 20,000 with a few trips from Fort Worth to Oklahoma, to West Monroe, Lousiiana, to South Carolina. That last fairly big trip was around 2,200 mile round trip in a week with conferences in Nashville and staying with my dad for 3 days. Did the tail of the Dragon again... always a good road to drive and it was excellent weather that day. The chargers were quite plentiful.
Only one time did my son and I come across and cluster at a mall charger because almost half of the chargers had completely vacant cars for quite some time so it was the only charging hiccup across the entire round trip.
But no, I am no way a 'save-the-planet' waving righteous finger pointer. I just got the thing because it was a good fit for me at the particular time I was looking for something.
The other vehicle in the driveway is a twin-turbo V8 suv of my wife's and the 6.7 liter turbo'd straight piped coal roller if you floor it. The tesla replaced an AMG GT roadster, getting it and out is much easier. The GT had sex appeal and exhaust pops but that was about it.
Cybertruck will be making it's way to the driveway, we're pretty early reservation holders. It will not be replacing the F350. Those back angles on the Cybertruck keep anyone from putting in a 5th wheel but it is also a bit shy of being able to pull out 16k trailers. Might just be an addition. Might replace the wife's SUV. We'll decide pretty soon after delivery.
For anyone looking for someone to talk you into an EV.... don't buy one.
Once your own opinion become the sole reason for wanting one, then go looking.
For now yes. But at some point I will make the switch. I’d prefer something more environmentally friendly (although my VW is pretty economical). But I’m not prepared to compromise on safety to do it.
Way out of my budget. For any EV. Used EV too uncertain about reliability. And the Anti-Right To Repair is a big turn off.
For people to be trading in their EV, it needs to maintain some sort of value. There isn't going to be be much value in EVs if they have a limited lifespan.
Because conventional hybrids charge for free. They use wasted coasting and braking energy. No plugs, no power bill, no effort by the user.
Last car I traded in had 250K miles on it and 12 years old. Cars last a long time these days and the shortage of chips means that people need to hold on to what they have for now.
I bought a Prius at an auction two years ago, it doesn’t get driven that much, but it was such a steal for the price, I just ended up buying it. I can tell you this, I’ve done absolutely nothing to that car in terms of maintenance, and and at 52 miles per gallon, it’s one of the main reasons why I am migrating completely towards EV for my next car purchase.
I think they make it the biggest misconception about these hybrids, is that there’s ‘no power’. Which is absolutely false, because those little 1.8L actually get up and move pretty quick, especially if you enable power mode.
That's what I get with my Camry with a 2.5 liter engine. For some reason, though, they've dropped the mileage in newer models. It's pretty hard to go EV when you're getting great mileage with a range of 700 miles. The power is there if you need it and the 8-speed transmission helps a lot.
I've wondered why the delta on the 2021 Corollas and Camrys is 2 MPG when the Camry is a lot larger and has a much larger engine. The Corolla has the CV transmission. The price delta between the Corolla and Camry isn't that great either.
Agree - as a current PHEV owner (Honda Clarity $22,000 after all incentives & post sales rebates), I have loved the super low maintenance, 10 year battery warranty, and very low fuel costs.
Now we are ready for full on EV. I placed a deposit on the upcoming Ford Lightning truck.
This will be my new "SUV" EV truck due to the front trunk and ability to power my house just like a generator!
Volume is on the steering wheel, and AC can be done (reliably) with voice. Though I would add an AC knob if I could, I admit.
They are closer to a luxury brand than a mass market brand, yes, but a M3 SR+ comes in at $40k, which is actually the average selling price for a new car these days. I’d argue that you get a lot more at that price than you do from traditional luxury brands like BMW/Audi/Mercedes, which have starting prices in the low 40s but need significant options/packages to get a well-speced car. And if the EV tax credit comes back for Tesla, the price will be downright reasonable!