I've owned a Tesla (Model S) for five years now. It's powered by coal.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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Awesome. And congrats.Agree - as a current PHEV owner (Honda Clarity $22,000 after all incentives & post sales rebates), I have loved the super low maintenance, 10 year battery warranty, and very low fuel costs.
Now we are ready for full on EV. I placed a deposit on the upcoming Ford Lightning truck.
This will be my new "SUV" EV truck due to the front trunk and ability to power my house just like a generator!
Which trim model did you select for the Lightning?
I would like to get the Lariat trim, but have not seen prices yet.
My wife says to get the lower XLT trim.
I need the cooling / ventilated seat option as the hot southwest weather all year demands it.....
I'll get one when it takes less than 10 minutes to fully recharge, same as it takes to fully refill an empty gas tank. Otherwise it's completely impractical unless you have a spare gas/hybrid car or live in your own home and never travel outside of your little town. The recharge TIME is the biggest issue inhibiting the take up of EVs. And until that problem is addressed EVs will never become prevalent.
That's right. The charging time--1-2 hours for a complete re charge--is the fatal flaw.No way. Too long to charge between drives. Then there is the battery liability issue.
Hydrogen has seemed the red-headed stepchild for the last ~15 years or so I've been hearing about it.
Still, though, to me there's a lot to like about it. A Tesla Model 3 LR battery is a bit over 1/2 ton, while a quick Google search tells me that a Toyota Mirai fuel cell+tank assembly is a bit over 350lbs. The Mirai will run in the 300 mile range on a fill of hydrogen(the efficiency I've seen quoted is ~70miles/kg of H2). Of course, the performance isn't really comparable, since the Mirai has a 0-60 time of 9 seconds, or in line with(if not worse than) a lot of modern 4 cylinder commuter cars.
In my mind, at least, though there's some potential there. Adding more hydrogen capacity shouldn't increase weight appreciably, which to me means it should roughly scale with capacity(i.e. increase by 50% and the range should increase should increase by ~50%). Increasing performance would likely require larger/more fuel cells(not sure of how scaleable they are) and of course more H2 to feed them so that range remains reasonable, but I don't see that as a huge obstacle.
There are a LOT of ways to make H2 independent of electricity, although at this point electrolysis is likely the best. Still, though, electricity can be sourced from all the same renewable sources as can EVs, and it can also be generated at fueling sites to decrease transport costs.
Of course it's less efficient to to go electricity->H2->electricity, but the intermediate transport is so much easier since it frees you from 1000lbs or more of batteries. Plus, an H2 fill is comparable in time to a gasoline fill.
All in all, one of my biggest concerns going forward with the sustainability of BEVs is the sheer volume of rare earth minerals needed to make battery packs. Yes, we have more batteries around us than ever before, but I'd guess one guy with a Tesla or whatever other BEV has more than all of his(or her) neighbors with their laptops, cell phones, tablets, combined by a long stretch. Fuel cells do need precious metals, but in relatively small quantities and they should be fully recyclable even at fuel cell EOL.
Yes, I agree with most of what you say. For me, the only glimmer of potential for EVs to actually be as useful as ICE vehicles across as many use cases is Al-Ion. That battery tech gives you 3x the charge density (so 1/3 the battery weight for the same amount of power or 3x as much power with the same battery weight), much faster charging, uses common Al, not rare Li, doesn't explode/ catch fire if punctured, and degrades more slowly. Very rarely is there such a 'silver bullet' breakthrough that ticks so many boxes like this... the issue being it's still barely more than vapourware. If we were anywhere close to commercialisation of Al-Ion batteries we'd probably already be seeing them in small devices like phones unfortunately.
People say this, but unless you’re driving long distances often it’s not a problem. The vast majority of the time, you charge while you’re sleeping.
I’ve been a Tesla Model 3 owner for a year and a half. Granted I don’t drive much, but the Standard Range Plus with 250ish miles of (rated) range is perfectly fine for most people considering you leave the house “topped off” everyday.
We have Touch Id or Face Id so we don't have to enter our password every time.
Who wants to have to charge and disconnect every day?
Especially when it's ten below outside or there's a blizzard or freezing rain?
To be fair... you shouldn't have to charge and disconnect every day...
...unless... you drive 250 miles... every day...
To be fair... you don't have to charge and disconnect every day...
...unless you drive 250 miles... every day...
I fill up every five to six weeks.
Let me know when EVs have 700 mile range and you can recharge in 5 minutes.
Holy guacamole!
How many miles per week do you drive? Or per month?
LOL I think we're ALL waiting for that...
But until then... some people still like their current EVs.
Sure... I agree that EVs are not ready to be a 100% replacement for all ICE cars and drivers right now.
If I could snap my fingers and give you a 700mile/5min recharge EV today... I would.
Just like if I could have snapped my fingers in 1984 and had given you an iPad then... I would have.
But the iPad simply couldn't have existed back then. And neither can 700mile/5min recharge EVs today. But we'll hopefully get there.
Would you take 350 miles and a 20 minute recharge instead?
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With a Model S or long range Model 3, you’d probably only have to charge every two weeks the way you’re driving…
And plugging in takes seconds compared to your 5 minutes at the pump.
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Holy guacamole!
How many miles per week do you drive? Or per month?
I think we're ALL waiting for that...
But until then... some people still like their current EVs.
Sure... I agree that EVs are not ready to be a 100% replacement for ICE cars right now.
If I could snap my fingers and give you a 700mile/5min recharge EV today... I would.
Just like if I could have snapped my fingers in 1984 and had given you an iPad then... I would have.
But the iPad simply couldn't have existed back then. And neither can 700mile/5min recharge EVs today. But we'll hopefully get there.
Would you take 400 miles and a 20 minute recharge instead?
100 Miles per week.
I do not have a garage and temperatures get down to -20 here. We can get a considerable amount of snow or 3/4 inch of ice. We get weather where it takes ten to fifteen minutes to clear ice and snow off the vehicle. Sometimes it can take ten minutes just to clear ice off the car.
My understanding is that very cold temperatures have a material effect on EV range. That wasted energy in ICE vehicles in the form of heat becomes quite useful.
I'm not even that crazy about filling up the gasoline tank when it's single digits and 20 MPH winds.
One of my friends bought a Tesla two years ago. Another bought one two months ago. They still have their ICE vehicles. I think that they both have range anxiety.
To what degree does temperature impact EV range? | Geotab
Explore the factors that affect electric vehicle range, specifically the impact of temperature and why.
I would want a Toyota for an EV. Toyota makes vehicles as appliances. They are boring to drive but are reliable and don't require a lot of effort or money to maintain. That they haven't released an EV implies that they don't think that they are ready for the mass market - according to Toyota's standards.
What do you do if you do not have a garage (I do not have one) and your driveway is limited common property? I live in a large development and I'm unaware of a single EV within the HOA. I do not know that I would want to leave a charging port outside in the limited common property or even if it is permitted. Consumer EVs weren't really around when our bylaws were drawn up.
nope, not until I know I can go anywhere and still be able to charge the car quickly anywhere
Looks like your current situation isn't ideal for an EV right now. Nothing wrong with that. Like I originally stated before I decided to wipe out the post( I miss the ability to delete my posts....) not trying to convince you to get an EV or say EV's are the best and ICE sucks.
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One of my friends bought a Tesla two years ago. Another bought one two months ago. They still have their ICE vehicles. I think that they both have range anxiety.
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To what degree does temperature impact EV range? | Geotab
Explore the factors that affect electric vehicle range, specifically the impact of temperature and why.www.geotab.com
I would want a Toyota for an EV. Toyota makes vehicles as appliances. They are boring to drive but are reliable and don't require a lot of effort or money to maintain. That they haven't released an EV implies that they don't think that they are ready for the mass market - according to Toyota's standards.
I believe most EV owners have it to some degree. Truth be told, I think about it way more than I should.
I guess what I’m saying is that concerns about range are typically overblown. Your earlier point about cold weather range loss is valid, but that graph isn’t really representative of my experience or people I know. Real world range in cold months is more 65-70 percent in cold months (depending on how you drive) and the heat pump in the Model 3 and Y puts you closer to 80%. I’ve never personally been able to “beat” the EPA rated range over long periods of time (I can do it for a trip or two but that’s it), so my graph would be flatter than the one you found.
I agree that EV ownership isn’t for everyone (yet), but it’s a good solution for a lot of people who think that it wouldn’t be. I installed a dryer plug in my garage and that’s how I charge. My neighbor charges his Model Y on the driveway with an RV cable. Not saying you should do this, but there are ways to make it work.
I’ve been pleased with Tesla (mostly) but like you, I’m looking forward to other companies jumping into the space and making great EVs. Competition breads greatness. I don’t think it’s a “EVs aren’t ready for mass market” thing. Large batteries are expensive. This is why when you see a manufacturer come out with a decent EV (Tesla, Porsche Tycan, Rivian, etc), they usually price it on the high-end. But that’s changing. We have cars like the Ford Mach E and F-150 Lightening coming out that are reasonably affordable (and don’t look like the dopey EVs from last decade).
Tesla has kicked the door open and proven that we can have great cars that just so happen to be EVs and I’m glad to see others getting on board.
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I in theory achieved about 18 miles shy of the Model 3’s EPA range which isn’t bad with my daily commute( mix of highway and city).
I say in theory because I plug in and recharge whenever I get home, but according to the car I went 327.5 miles and used 77 kWh for that distance. The battery in my Model 3 is 82 kWh with 79 kWh usable. I’ve been averaging around 3.5 miles per kWh so the extra two kWh should get me to 335 miles. Granted in the road trip scenario people love to throw out, that will be lower since it will be more highway driving and that consumes more energy, but I’m satisfied. And it cost me $11.55 to go that 327.5 miles vs $55-$60 in my Camaro.
I typically get in the 52-54 MPG range on the highway (most driving) and 46-50 in the winter but the summer range is about 700 miles (I usually refill when I get to around 600 miles). The range may be a little higher as there is a reserve tank but I've never gotten that low. The EPA highway rating for my car is 41 MPG. I am somewhat annoyed that this got lowered to 39 MPG for the current version.
I've read the recommendations to increase range in the winter and they are all workarounds to the problem of capacity.
One problem with an EV is if you decide to move to the city where you park on the street, or you rent off-street parking. I've been in both living situations. I've also lived in apartments with parking lots and you just take whichever free spot is available.
There are reasons why the vast majority of vehicles sold in the United States are ICE. That may change over time but but it's not going to be anything like the predictions made in 2010-2015.
There are many ICE-powered cars that have pretty poor range as well. I recall seeing lots of models with around a 400 mile range and wondered why people bought these cars. Also, given technology today, why the range was so small.
Of the top 25 vehicles sold in 2021 so far, the top 3 are huge pickup trucks. 20 of the top 25 are trucks or SUVs. 7 of the top ten are trucks or SUVs. The cars in the top ten at 7, 8, 9 are the Camry, Corolla, Civic. The trend for vehicles over the past 20 years has been bigger and heavier. Not surprising due to the huge increases in available oil supplies globally and the ability of shale to greatly increase production. NOPEC has greatly restricted supply to keep prices high and they've shown remarkable solidarity in doing so. But there is actually a glut in production capability. We could all greatly cut our consumption just by changing the types of vehicles that we drive along with our driving habits. And also save a lot of lives in doing so. There were no EV models in the top 25 though there are Hybrids factored in to the ICE numbers.
That's a lot more pragmatic. But people want what people want and that's ICE vehicles right now.
I was unable to find any ranking information for the Tesla models.
www.caranddriver.com
That's a lot more pragmatic. But people want what people want and that's ICE vehicles right now.
I was unable to find any ranking information for the Tesla models.
Top 25 Bestselling Cars, Trucks, and SUVs of 2021
Inventory and supply-chain issues persisted, but many top-selling models still posted sales increases in 2021 compared with 2020.