Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[jaymc]

We have Touch Id or Face Id so we don't have to enter our password every time.

Who wants to have to charge and disconnect every day?

Especially when it's ten below outside or there's a blizzard or freezing rain?

I've got a 2013 Tesla Model S that take twice as long to charge than my brother's Model 3 he got just this week - batteries are improving. Also, I don't charge every day nor need to - less so than my WATCH. Plus, charging a Tesla is not like putting gas into a ICE car; simply plugs it in or check into a company that sells a charging mat you just park over to charge the car.

 

[quagmire]

I've got a 2013 Tesla Model S that take twice as long to charge than my brother's Model 3 he got just this week - batteries are improving. Also, I don't charge every day nor need to - less so than my WATCH. Plus, charging a Tesla is not like putting gas into a ICE car; simply plugs it in or check into a company that sells a charging mat you just park over to charge the car.

And to build on that, charging an EV is not like charging your electronic devices. You don't charge to 100% unlike with your phone, tablet, or laptop. Nor is it bad to always leave it plugged in. Heck it is recommended hence the acronym ABC( Always be Charging). The cars BMS is smart enough to manage the batteries health. Hence you don't need to go plug it in, then run out to the car to unplug it. You only plug it in once parked and unplug once you drive it.

For your every day commute for most typical Americans, charging to 70-80%, but not more than 90% SoC is the recommendation to maximize battery health and more than adequate. Only go above 90% and charge to 100% when doing road trips. I charge to 80% and I typically get home with 62% SoC, plug it in, have start charging after midnight to take advantage of off peak and lower grid demands, and ready to go for my next trip at 80%. You want to avoid going below 20% SoC as much as possible as well for similar reasons to reduce degradation. It is better for the battery to do 60-80% charges than wait for it to go down to 20% and charge it 80% again. Some people do that because they live in apartments and they go to superchargers to charge back up because they lack charging at home( hence why for those that live in apartments that lack charging infrastructure, I will say EV ownership is not for you yet).

When doing road trips, again it isn't like a gas car. You don't fill up to 100% from 10%. You charge up to the level that can get you to either the next charger or your destination. Often times this will only take 15-30 minutes because often this also keeps the battery in the SoC that will make it accept the faster charging speeds( 150-250Kw) longer minimizing your time plugged in. Now would I want to road trip in my Model 3 if I was a person that regularly road trips? No, people do it, but ICE vehicles are better suited still for that use. For the occasional road trip? Sure especially since I live in an area that have plenty of superchargers built on the routes I would go.

Again don't take this as me trying to convince everyone to switch to EV's. Not everyones living situations or life style make EV's with their current state and charging infrastructure the right vehicle. But just explaining the different mindset there is when operating an EV vs gas car. It's something I have to keep explaining to my dad because my mom is interested in the Model Y. For her purposes, an EV is perfect and for the 1-2 times they go visit my aunt, the car can still make it on one charge and either charge it there or visit a supercharger on the way back to make it home. Now for the rare occasions that they go visit my brother and choose to drive, yeah the Model Y wouldn't be ideal for that drive and they have a Suburban for that trip.

 

[pshufd]

I've got a 2013 Tesla Model S that take twice as long to charge than my brother's Model 3 he got just this week - batteries are improving. Also, I don't charge every day nor need to - less so than my WATCH. Plus, charging a Tesla is not like putting gas into a ICE car; simply plugs it in or check into a company that sells a charging mat you just park over to charge the car.

How do you charge if you use street parking?

I wear a Garmin Fenix 5+. 10 days of battery life. I did think about getting the 5X+ which has 21 days of battery life. The latest model with solar charging gets up to 24 days of battery life. The longer the watch is on the wrist, the more biometrics data it collects and the more useful it is.

What I also expect from a car company is a nearby service center which performs maintenance, repairs, provides a loaner if repairs takes a while, a shuttle to home or office if it's going to take a few hours. I would not have minded getting a Lexus but the closest dealer is moderately far away compared to the Toyota dealer. The Toyota dealer was ten minutes from my office and fifteen minutes from home.

This is why I would buy a vehicle from Toyota or Honda. They have the full package.

 

[pshufd]

And to build on that, charging an EV is not like charging your electronic devices. You don't charge to 100% unlike with your phone, tablet, or laptop. Nor is it bad to always leave it plugged in. Heck it is recommended hence the acronym ABC( Always be Charging). The cars BMS is smart enough to manage the batteries health. Hence you don't need to go plug it in, then run out to the car to unplug it. You only plug it in once parked and unplug once you drive it.

For your every day commute for most typical Americans, charging to 70-80%, but not more than 90% SoC is the recommendation to maximize battery health and more than adequate. Only go above 90% and charge to 100% when doing road trips. I charge to 80% and I typically get home with 62% SoC, plug it in, have start charging after midnight to take advantage of off peak and lower grid demands, and ready to go for my next trip at 80%. You want to avoid going below 20% SoC as much as possible as well for similar reasons to reduce degradation. It is better for the battery to do 60-80% charges than wait for it to go down to 20% and charge it 80% again. Some people do that because they live in apartments and they go to superchargers to charge back up because they lack charging at home( hence why for those that live in apartments that lack charging infrastructure, I will say EV ownership is not for you yet).

When doing road trips, again it isn't like a gas car. You don't fill up to 100% from 10%. You charge up to the level that can get you to either the next charger or your destination. Often times this will only take 15-30 minutes because often this also keeps the battery in the SoC that will make it accept the faster charging speeds( 150-250Kw) longer minimizing your time plugged in. Now would I want to road trip in my Model 3 if I was a person that regularly road trips? No, people do it, but ICE vehicles are better suited still for that use. For the occasional road trip? Sure especially since I live in an area that have plenty of superchargers built on the routes I would go.

Again don't take this as me trying to convince everyone to switch to EV's. Not everyones living situations or life style make EV's with their current state and charging infrastructure the right vehicle. But just explaining the different mindset there is when operating an EV vs gas car. It's something I have to keep explaining to my dad because my mom is interested in the Model Y. For her purposes, an EV is perfect and for the 1-2 times they go visit my aunt, the car can still make it on one charge and either charge it there or visit a supercharger on the way back to make it home. Now for the rare occasions that they go visit my brother and choose to drive, yeah the Model Y wouldn't be ideal for that drive and they have a Suburban for that trip.

Discussing EVs is like discussing BitCoin.

 

[MarkC426]

I will not get an electric car until (or never) the car manufacturers stop seriously taking the piss.
Saw an advert last night for possibly one of the smallest, crapest cars you could get, a Renault Zoe.

£9k deposit
36 payments of £200
Final payment of £14k

Total £30k.........??

I don't think so.

You could get a seriously nice (new) car for that money.

 

[quagmire]

Discussing EVs is like discussing BitCoin.

How so? I am not trying to convince anyone an EV is for them. Just trying to explain the different mindset one uses for an EV vs gas car. I am not trying to project my life situation onto everyone and saying they need to switch to EV's.

Doesn't sound like an EV is for you given your living arrangement and location.

To address your service question, Tesla at least can do most maintenance work via their mobile techs where they come to you to perform the work. Some will obviously still need to be taken to the Service Center for work to be done and obviously if you don't live near one, again a Tesla at least may not be for you given your current situation.

 

[pshufd]

How so? I am not trying to convince anyone an EV is for them. Just trying to explain the different mindset one uses for an EV vs gas car. I am not trying to project my life situation onto everyone and saying they need to switch to EV's.

Doesn't sound like an EV is for you given your living arrangement and location.

To address your service question, Tesla at least can do most maintenance work via their mobile techs where they come to you to perform the work. Some will obviously still need to be taken to the Service Center for work to be done and obviously if you don't live near one, again a Tesla at least may not be for you given your current situation.

Online discussions are cultish.

One of my requirements for buying a Tesla is a Supercharger station in my town. I asked my friend with a Tesla and he had to drive to the next state to get to the closest one.

We also do have power outages here. Not a problem with a gasoline-powered vehicle. Typically one-third of gas stations are able to pump with a generator.

I saw a video of two guys driving long distance in a Tesla and they brought a gasoline-powered generator with them. So you could buy some gasoline, fire up the generator and charge your car with it. Kind of like a Volt. I thought that the Volt was a cool design. I just wish someone else made it.

 

[4sallypat]

100 Miles per week.

I do not have a garage and temperatures get down to -20 here. We can get a considerable amount of snow or 3/4 inch of ice. We get weather where it takes ten to fifteen minutes to clear ice and snow off the vehicle. Sometimes it can take ten minutes just to clear ice off the car.

My understanding is that very cold temperatures have a material effect on EV range. That wasted energy in ICE vehicles in the form of heat becomes quite useful.

I'm not even that crazy about filling up the gasoline tank when it's single digits and 20 MPH winds.

Cold weather areas are definitely a detriment of range per charge.

My PHEV is always 120% of the average range all year around because I live in the hot southwest.

Compared to others with the same car who get 50-60% of range in the winters.

In Canada, they sell them with battery warmers.

Once the battery technology improves for cold temps, it will sell a lot more.

 

[pshufd]

Cold weather areas are definitely a detriment of range per charge.

My PHEV is always 120% of the average range all year around because I live in the hot southwest.

Compared to others with the same car who get 50-60% of range in the winters.

In Canada, they sell them with battery warmers.

Once the battery technology improves for cold temps, it will sell a lot more.

If I had a lot of land with sun, I'd put in a solar farm and windmill and drive for free.

 

[BeeGood]

How do you charge if you use street parking?

Some people charge work. Some people who drive Teslas are close enough to a Supercharger to make it practical.

It’s definitely not ideal for everyone, it it’s not a deal breaker.

Also, to your point about service center, that’s fair. There’s also an issue with getting parts for the newer, higher-priced EVs like Teslas and and the Porsche Tycan. But….when you consider that a Tesla drivetrain has 1/10th the moving parts that are in the drivetrain of a comparable ICE vehicle, you’re less likely to need service over the lifetime of the car. No oil changes, No transmission fluid, no spark plugs, no serpentine belt replacements.

 

[44267547]

I would like to get the Lariat trim, but have not seen prices yet.
My wife says to get the lower XLT trim.

I need the cooling / ventilated seat option as the hot southwest weather all year demands it.....

Once you’ve experienced heated/ventilated seats, [even along with a heated steering wheel], it’s hard to go to back any vehicle that’s not equipped with it.

The Lighting and Cybertruck I’m really curious to see how they fair with once they have had enough time to be released on the market. I personally think the Lightning is going to do very well, and not just because it’s an ‘American EV’, because they have on-site dealerships where people can see and test drive them, versus a Tesla, are not applicable to everybody’s region.

 

[BeeGood]

Online discussions are cultish.

One of my requirements for buying a Tesla is a Supercharger station in my town. I asked my friend with a Tesla and he had to drive to the next state to get to the closest one.

We also do have power outages here. Not a problem with a gasoline-powered vehicle. Typically one-third of gas stations are able to pump with a generator.

If I were in your situation, I would definitely want a Supercharger close.

Give it time. Tesla will either build one or some third party will step in and throw up a DC Fast Charger.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

They are closer to a luxury brand than a mass market brand, yes, but a M3 SR+ comes in at $40k, which is actually the average selling price for a new car these days.

...which is too high. It's clear that the cost of buying a car is eating up a substantially larger proportion of buyers' salaries these days. For the upper middle class and wealthy it's not a big deal, but for the rest of us it's notably limiting buying options.

With that being said, this is not entirely the fault of EV makers (but it is partially due to the SUV craze and pushing people to buy bigger, more expensive vehicles). But if Ford can really get the Lightning at about $40k, I am hopeful that in a few years we'll see a good EV for the masses at under $30k (i.e. a bit more room and substantially better range and power than, say, a Leaf but at a similar price).

 

[pshufd]

Some people charge work. Some people who drive Teslas are close enough to a Supercharger to make it practical.

It’s definitely not ideal for everyone, it it’s not a deal breaker.

Also, to your point about service center, that’s fair. There’s also an issue with getting parts for the newer, higher-priced EVs like Teslas and and the Porsche Tycan. But….when you consider that a Tesla drivetrain has 1/10th the moving parts that are in the drivetrain of a comparable ICE vehicle, you’re less likely to need service over the lifetime of the car. No oil changes, No transmission fluid, no spark plugs, no serpentine belt replacements.

ICE vehicles have become far more reliable with far higher service intervals.

I assume that Teslas still have brakes and suspensions so that you need to do an alignment after a rough winter and spring. Or yuo could get into a small accident and need a variety of parts for a repair. Or someone could smash your window for a robbery and you need a window and motor.

Or you want some accessories that go with the car.

When the mass market is ready for EVs, Toyota will be there. They cater to the great middle.

 

[pshufd]

Once you’ve experienced heated/ventilated seats, [even along with a heated steering wheel], it’s hard to go to back any vehicle that’s not equipped with it.

The Lighting and Cybertruck I’m really curious to see how they fair with once they have had enough time to be released on the market. I personally think the Lightning is going to do very well, and not just because it’s an ‘American EV’, because they have on-site dealerships where people can see and test drive them, versus a Tesla, are not applicable to everybody’s region.

Once you've experienced replacing heated seats you may change your mind. Same thing with the heated steering wheel. Or heated mirrors.

Lightning should do well with the proper marketing and dealers make a huge difference. I talked to a dealer person at a car show and they sold a lot of F-150s and 250s. I was curious as to why people buy those things.

 

[BeeGood]

Once you’ve experienced heated/ventilated seats, [even along with a heated steering wheel], it’s hard to go to back any vehicle that’s not equipped with it.

The Lighting and Cybertruck I’m really curious to see how they fair with once they have had enough time to be released on the market. I personally think the Lightning is going to do very well, and not just because it’s an ‘American EV’, because they have on-site dealerships where people can see and test drive them, versus a Tesla, are not applicable to everybody’s region.

All Teslas that are sold in the US are designed and made in the US, but I get your point. Nothing is more iconically ‘murica like an F-150 (I mean that in a good way).

Tell you the truth, I’m not even a truck guy and I think the Lightening is going to kill it. 400+ miles of range and the thing has 240V outlets…it could legit power a small house. Crazy.

 

[44267547]

Once you've experienced replacing heated seats you may change your mind. Same thing with the heated steering wheel. Or heated mirrors.

I’ve owned at least now 6-7 vehicles (Domestic and foreign), all of them had heated seats, and at least two of those vehicles had a heated steering wheel with ventilation seats, not one problem with any of those vehicles. I know it’s easy for you to speculate, but I’m talking based off direct experience, and I don’t know about you, but that’s quite a few cars to not have any problems across different manufacturers, both in the domestic/foreign segment.

I talked to a dealer person at a car show and they sold a lot of F-150s and 250s. I was curious as to why people buy those things.

So your question is, why would somebody buy an F150 or 250. Keep in mind, it’s really based on what somebody would need for towing capacity, think government contracts for DOT infrastructure, where they need those types of vehicles. Or construction companies. I live in the Midwest, and I can tell you, those types of trucks aren’t even just for individual consumer sales for those types of vehicles, it’s usually commercial needs when they purchase large amounts of fleet F-150’s for their company.

 

[BeeGood]

ICE vehicles have become far more reliable with far higher service intervals.

I assume that Teslas still have brakes and suspensions so that you need to do an alignment after a rough winter and spring. Or yuo could get into a small accident and need a variety of parts for a repair. Or someone could smash your window for a robbery and you need a window and motor.

Or you want some accessories that go with the car.

When the mass market is ready for EVs, Toyota will be there. They cater to the great middle.

Sure, as I said, parts have historically been a challenge for Tesla owners. We’ve all seen the horror stories of someone having a minor accident and waiting months to get a dented quarter panel replaced.

Outside of that, most owners will tell you that service is a minor concern. Yes, Teslas have brakes and suspensions….and they work just like they do on ICE cars. You can go anywhere for that kind of work, and brakes on EVs with regenerative braking don’t wear as quickly.

I could be wrong, but I just don’t think it’s a market-being-ready thing. I think it’s an infrastructure thing. Fast charging needs to be as ubiquitous as gas stations, then people will be indifferent between ICE and EV.

 

[44267547]

All Teslas that are sold in the US are designed and made in the US, but I get your point. Nothing is more iconically ‘murica like an F-150 (I mean that in a good way).

Tell you the truth, I’m not even a truck guy and I think the Lightening is going to kill it. 400+ miles of range and the thing has 240V outlets…it could legit power a small house. Crazy.

I’m really leaning towards a Tesla, more specifically a Cybertruck or Model 3. I’ve never owned a truck, and the Cybertruck is just different, but in a way that gravitates towards me. I considered a Ford Raptor in the past. I have a Tesla M3 bookmarked on my browser, (Both Long range and performance), I’m just someone that really likes sedans, but I love the style of the Model 3.

But I agree, the Lightning will do really well, and also has I believe at least four trim models you can choose from, so there is a wide variety for consumers, and I’m curious to see how well it does in the field for those who will utilize all its external accessories for powering tools and like you alluded to, it can even be used as generator for your house with a power outage.

 

[pshufd]

I’ve owned at least now 6-7 vehicles (Domestic and foreign), all of them had heated seats, and at least two of those vehicles had a heated steering wheel with ventilation seats, not one problem with any of those vehicles. I know it’s easy for you to speculate, but I’m talking based off direct experience, and I don’t know about you, but that’s quite a few cars to not have any problems across different manufacturers, both in the domestic/foreign segment.

So your question is, why would somebody buy an F150 or 250. Keep in mind, it’s really based on what somebody would need for towing capacity, think government contracts for DOT infrastructure, where they need those types of vehicles. Or construction companies. I live in the Midwest, and I can tell you, those types of trucks aren’t even just for individual consumer sales for those types of vehicles, it’s usually commercial needs when they purchase large amounts of fleet F-150’s for their company.

I owned an Audi Quattro with heated everything. Audi has a reputation for weak electricals but this car was ridiculous.

Do you think that vehicles #1, #2, #3 as the best selling vehicles are all used for commercial purposes?

I saw how people reacted looking at those vehicles at The World's Fair in Dallas a few years ago. Basically youngish parents with small kids jumping in with glee. These vehicles are the new minivan.

 

[44267547]

@BeeGood

I know you’re a Tesla Model 3 owner from your postings in here. As I get closer to my Tesla purchase with questions, would you mind if I message you personally, versus over-taking this thread? I can tell you’ve got quite a bit of direct owner experience and I’d rather not join a Tesla forum.

 

[cosmichobo]

Until the Australian government makes it appealing for the car manufacturers to send Electric Cars to Australia - I'm not buying - they are way too expensive here, and no variety.

From what I've read, because the EU fines the manufacturers for every combustion engine car sold, but then credit them for the Electric cars - they're not sending many to Australia - they are holding them there to get better credits.

 

[cosmichobo]

...which is too high. It's clear that the cost of buying a car is eating up a substantially larger proportion of buyers' salaries these days. For the upper middle class and wealthy it's not a big deal, but for the rest of us it's notably limiting buying options.

As the manufacturers start reaching the point/s where countries are making combustion engines illegal (not that far away), they will start to come down heavily in price, as the % changes - less combustion compared to electric.

 

[pshufd]

As the manufacturers start reaching the point/s where countries are making combustion engines illegal (not that far away), they will start to come down heavily in price, as the % changes - less combustion compared to electric.

One reason why vehicles are expensive is vehicle choice. Americans have been choosing larger vehicles for the past two decades as gasoline prices have fallen and as the size of Americans has increased. This has resulted in car makers making more large vehicles and fewer small and fuel-efficient vehicles. It used to be that higher gasoline prices resulted in the change of consumer sentiment but it seems that a large vehicle is considered a birthright today.

 

[MarkC426]

One of the biggest issues with this whole thing is, a vast majority of the population cannot afford a brand new car. There are very few used electric vehicles, and even then they are not cheap.
A lot of people (in the UK) will buy a car for £5k, which is more than sufficient for them.