Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[pshufd]

One of the biggest issues with this whole thing is, a vast majority of the population cannot afford a brand new car. There are very few used electric vehicles, and even then they are not cheap.
A lot of people (in the UK) will buy a car for £5k, which is more than sufficient for them.

The average price of a new vehicle in the US was $40,768 in April 2021 (Kelley Blue Book). The last car I purchased was $25k, the most I've paid for a vehicle. My approach is to just right a check for the vehicle - I don't like to borrow money. I'm aware that what would be considered cheap cars are hard to find as prices have risen and the number of models has decreased. I'm just amazed that people have the money to pay that much on average.

85.5% of new vehicles purchased in 2020Q2 were financed (Statista.com). The most common term for financed cars is 72 months (Edmunds). Almost 70% of new car loans in 2020Q1 were longer than 60 months (Edmunds). So most new car buyers finance 6+ years.

Which blows my mind.

We haven't had any debt since the previous century.

Lack of debt allows you to build your savings quickly assuming a decent rate of return.

 

[Big Bad D]

I don’t see electric cars being commonplace for the average buyer until battery technology goes through further evolution and used electric cars are sufficiently in the market which have a good remaining or low-cost overhauled battery life and performance.

 

[4sallypat]

Once you’ve experienced heated/ventilated seats, [even along with a heated steering wheel], it’s hard to go to back any vehicle that’s not equipped with it.

The Lighting and Cybertruck I’m really curious to see how they fair with once they have had enough time to be released on the market. I personally think the Lightning is going to do very well, and not just because it’s an ‘American EV’, because they have on-site dealerships where people can see and test drive them, versus a Tesla, are not applicable to everybody’s region.

Yes, I have had a Land Rover and BMW with heated + ventilated seats and have to say that where I live (hot southwest), the ventilation was turned on all the time while I never turn on heating.

In addition to charging at home and work, for on the road needs, I found the charging network - Electrify America is what Ford is partnering up.

In my area, there already lots of charge stations and many more being planned:

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The average price of a new vehicle in the US was $40,768 in April 2021 (Kelley Blue Book). The last car I purchased was $25k, the most I've paid for a vehicle. My approach is to just right a check for the vehicle - I don't like to borrow money. I'm aware that what would be considered cheap cars are hard to find as prices have risen and the number of models has decreased. I'm just amazed that people have the money to pay that much on average.

85.5% of new vehicles purchased in 2020Q2 were financed (Statista.com). The most common term for financed cars is 72 months (Edmunds). Almost 70% of new car loans in 2020Q1 were longer than 60 months (Edmunds). So most new car buyers finance 6+ years.

Which blows my mind.

Right. As I have been arguing, cars are getting too expensive on average. If you look at the trends in size and cost, they are clearly unsustainable. That is not to say I am arguing everyone should be driving around in some cheap, drab, but clean 21st century EV equivalent to the Trabant. But these current EVs are establishing themselves at the top half of the market only for now. The acid test will be transitioning EVs to the other half of the market, somewhere in the $20k - $30k range and eventually cheaper still.

I have no problem with the argument that EVs will be pioneered in the more expensive segments, to mature the technology. But we should not underestimate either the challenges (like long-term reliability/cost of ownership) nor the imperative need to take the next step and build EVs that are still excellent vehicles but substantially less expensive and more accessible.

Also, the potential reliability benefits of EVs could help bring down the overall cost of vehicles in time, which is very important for the affordable end of the market.

 

[44267547]

Yes, I have had a Land Rover and BMW with heated + ventilated seats and have to say that where I live (hot southwest), the ventilation was turned on all the time while I never turn on heating.

In addition to charging at home and work, for on the road needs, I found the charging network - Electrify America is what Ford is partnering up.

In my area, there already lots of charge stations and many more being planned:
View attachment 1810669

What’s interesting with that map, isn’t the amount of ‘live stations’, it’s the ~167 ‘coming soon’ in addition to the ~647 live stations. I’d be curious to know how long ‘Coming soon’ means in terms of when it’s ready for use? We’re expanding charging networks in the Midwest, but it’s certainly not at the rate California is.

I can’t remember the exact podcast, but Jay Leno was being interviewed about his Tesla Model S, and somebody asked him why do you think Tesla’s are so popular in California other than just because they’re ‘manufactured in Cal and it’s en EV’, and Jay responded because of the easily accessible charging locations and tax incentives.

That’s one thing that we don’t have a lot of, is tax incentives with EV’s in the Midwest. I’m not saying the transition would be easier for someone in the Midwest buying an EV, but I definitely think it would motivate someone to do more research if they understood the potential savings if that was offered.

 

[zakarhino]

We drive a Tesla but have vowed never to buy one again, absolute dog s*** build quality and design issues plus nobody in our family is interested in supporting Elon's grift. We're looking at F150 Lightning or Rivian as potential replacements for our ICE pickup; lots of exciting things happening in the electric pickup space.

 

[44267547]

We drive a Tesla but have vowed never to buy one again, absolute dog s*** build quality and design

This part of your post doesn’t explain anything though. I mean, you could elaborate for the readers,
Like…What Model? Year? What’s considered dog s*** quality? How does the design contribute to the dog s*** quality?

I haven’t owned a Tesla yet, so I remain objective. But I know quite a few people (At least a dozen owners) who own a Tesla inside this exact forum and even my neighbors, colleagues and they’ve had excellent experiences in terms of performance, reliability and very few problems in terms of the build. Now, I’m not saying Teslas have not had their issues, because they definitely have early on, but it seems they’ve improved quite a bit of the earlier model quality control problems, which is why I am asking you the above questions, to be more specific on what you don’t like and negative experiences encountered.

I also think it’s important for other readers to _not_ read too deep into the internet about everything you hear negative about Tesla. The reason for that is, people will deliberately lie online, because they don’t like Elon or his company, etc. I sometimes prefer to talk to people who actually own a Tesla in the real world, and I find you can see the true sincerity in terms of their experiences, both good and bad.

 

[jz0309]

What’s interesting with that map, isn’t the amount of ‘live stations’, it’s the ~167 ‘coming soon’ in addition to the ~647 live stations. I’d be curious to know how long ‘Coming soon’ means in terms of when it’s ready for use? We’re expanding charging networks in the Midwest, but it’s certainly not at the rate California is.

I can’t remember the exact podcast, but Jay Leno was being interviewed about his Tesla Model S, and somebody asked him why do you think Tesla’s are so popular in California other than just because they’re ‘manufactured in Cal and it’s en EV’, and Jay responded because of the easily accessible charging locations and tax incentives.

That’s one thing that we don’t have a lot of, is tax incentives with EV’s in the Midwest. I’m not saying the transition would be easier for someone in the Midwest buying an EV, but I definitely think it would motivate someone to do more research if they understood the potential savings if that was offered.

actually the key advantage he forgot is: car pool access ... if you look at the Bay Area, most vehicles have 1 occupant and the carpool lane is Tesla after Tesla ...

 

[zakarhino]

This part of your post doesn’t explain anything though. I mean, you could elaborate for the readers,
Like…What Model? Year? What’s considered dog s*** quality? How does the design contribute to the dog s*** quality?

I haven’t owned a Tesla yet, so I remain objective. But I know quite a few people (At least a dozen owners) who own a Tesla inside this exact forum and even my neighbors, colleagues and they’ve had excellent experiences in terms of performance, reliability and very few problems in terms of the build. Now, I’m not saying Teslas have not had their issues, because they definitely have early on, but it seems they’ve improved quite a bit of the earlier model quality control problems, which is why I am asking you the above questions, to be more specific on what you don’t like and negative experiences encountered.

I also think it’s important for other readers to _not_ read too deep into the internet about everything you hear negative about Tesla. The reason for that is, people will deliberately lie online, because they don’t like Elon or his company, etc. I sometimes prefer to talk to people who actually own a Tesla in the real world, and I find you can see the true sincerity in terms of their experiences, both good and bad.

Wasn't really in the mood to elaborate but long story short there are a ton of creeks and ill-fitting parts on the car's interior (not even talking about the famous panel gaps on the exterior). Additional issues we've encountered include: the AC constantly smelling due to condensation forming on the AC coils (engineering design flaw that Tesla avoid admitting despite countless people reporting the issue), the battery pack popping and flexing due to air pressure changes (yes you read that correctly, the floor of the vehicle would make loud banging sounds and flex due to air pressure. Tesla's "fix" was to drill a hole in the battery pack to equalize air pressure LOL). The total battery capacity is also degrading faster than we'd expect despite not overcharging the car. Other owners have reported the same issue in fact Norwegian Tesla owners successfully sued Tesla because they were noticing crazy degradation in battery life after several software updates.

It's a 2019 model 3 btw and it's not like I haven't seen these problems in more recent builds I've been in. I've also driven model S and X, same sort of issues with poor build quality (lots of creaking panels, creaking seats, general poor quality of materials, etc.). I wouldn't consider a model S or X for the money because of the poor quality interior and lack of luxury features. Additionally I wouldn't consider X because of the terrible falcon doors that are 99% gimmick 1% functional. Plaid update seems to improve the interior quality a bit apparently (only Tesla diehards have received those cars so far so we can't trust any info about improved interior unfortunately) but even then I wouldn't go near those cars with a 10 foot pole so long as it has that fail of a steering yoke which Musk has said is the only option. Yet another example of doing something because it "looks cool" and is "different" but severely compromises safety and usability. People complain about the yoke? Tesla/Musk doubles down on it

All of these issues would be less irritating if Tesla's support were more organized and easier to talk to but their support is generally speaking poor. There are nice elements about the car we enjoy that aren't unique to Tesla: instant power on tap, waking up to a 'full tank' every morning, low center of gravity makes corners fun, simple design, relatively quiet driving experience (except when you go above 60 MPH, model 3s have a crazy amount of wind noise. again, another engineering design fail), etc. Tesla's biggest strength IMO vs. other EVs is their infotainment system is extremely fast and relatively easy to use. There's nothing nicer than driving around with a huge map showing you where you are, getting lost is impossible in this vehicle. Nobody has matched their infotainment in terms of responsiveness. The whole games and YouTube thing is mostly a gimmick so I don't give them points for that.

Our conclusion is given the strides other manufacturers are making with their EVs (looking at VW, Volvo/Polestar, Ford, and a couple others here), Teslas simply aren't worth the money anymore for what you get unless you care about the 0-60 party trick every so often. No thanks, I'd rather take better interior quality, less wind noise, and less creaking over a few half seconds of acceleration. That combined with our general dislike of Musk's business antics have convinced us we're not interested in the brand anymore. By the time we're looking for another EV there will be many more better options on the market from the looks of it.

Oh and don't even get me started on the autopilot nonsense. It's terrible and mostly useless outside of the radar based cruise control. It invokes a greater sense of anxiety when in use vs. just driving the car on your own.

I also think it’s important for other readers to _not_ read too deep into the internet about everything you hear negative about Tesla.

LOL nope! The incessant fanbase around Tesla (and some people's accompanying worship of Musk as the new tech messiah) is a reason not to read too deeply into people's raving about the cars. Too many Tesla fans write off complaints about the car as "oil shilling haters" or "people that hate musk and don't even own a tesla" in the same way you tried to imply we don't actually own one! The irony, you just said you don't own a Tesla yet but won't trust an actual owner's opinion! Many of those supposed 'oil shills' are just customers like us that have legitimate grievances. It's part of the con: paint out critics as haters or people against the mission of clean energy (a mission which Musk doesn't seem to care about given his opposition towards different transport solutions that can turbocharge the mission to net 0 emissions in the USA and globally). You're somewhat correct though just not in the way you think: I've come across a significant portion of people defending Tesla that don't actually own a Tesla themselves.

It's kinda funny, I've met other Tesla owners that say they love the car but once you get into the conversation a bit more they reveal the number of issues they've had with the car. The difference is that they'll make excuses on behalf of Tesla for those issues because of their love for the brand's marketing & sunk cost fallacy. They don't see their product as badly built or faulty, they see it as par for the course of "Tesla pushing boundaries!" when it fact a badly built car with engineering flaws is not something that should be accepted just because the company markets itself as an underdog. I'm not in the camp of people that will make excuses for bad products because I like a company. I think loving companies is stupid and causes people to not think straight. Just watch a video of a Tesla fan demonstrating the latest updates to the full self driving scam, the car literally tries to kill them and they laugh it off whilst making a defense that the system is "better than the last update!" We see it all the time in this forum: religious defense of Apple against the slightest critique because they feel attacked when a company they're emotionally invested in has flaws. I don't know what's gone wrong with our culture to cause people to make excuses on behalf of companies, it's incredible strange and depressing.

EDIT: oh I forgot another issue we had. speaker system gets loose and rattles every 6-8 months or so lol

 

[44267547]

Wasn't really in the mood to elaborate but long story short there are a ton of creeks and ill-fitting parts on the car's interior (not even talking about the famous panel gaps on the exterior). Additional issues we've encountered include: the AC constantly smelling due to condensation forming on the AC coils (engineering design flaw that Tesla avoid admitting despite countless people reporting the issue), the battery pack popping and flexing due to air pressure changes (yes you read that correctly, the floor of the vehicle would make loud banging sounds and flex due to air pressure. Tesla's "fix" was to drill a hole in the battery pack to equalize air pressure LOL). The total battery capacity is also degrading faster than we'd expect despite not overcharging the car. Other owners have reported the same issue in fact Norwegian Tesla owners successfully sued Tesla because they were noticing crazy degradation in battery life after several software updates.

It's a 2019 model 3 btw and it's not like I haven't seen these problems in more recent builds I've been in. I've also driven model S and X, same sort of issues with poor build quality (lots of creaking panels, creaking seats, general poor quality of materials, etc.). I wouldn't consider a model S or X for the money because of the poor quality interior and lack of luxury features. Additionally I wouldn't consider X because of the terrible falcon doors that are 99% gimmick 1% functional. Plaid update seems to improve the interior quality a bit apparently (only Tesla diehards have received those cars so far so we can't trust any info about improved interior unfortunately) but even then I wouldn't go near those cars with a 10 foot pole so long as it has that fail of a steering yoke which Musk has said is the only option. Yet another example of doing something because it "looks cool" and is "different" but severely compromises safety and usability. People complain about the yoke? Tesla/Musk doubles down on it

All of these issues would be less irritating if Tesla's support were more organized and easier to talk to but their support is generally speaking poor. There are nice elements about the car we enjoy that aren't unique to Tesla: instant power on tap, waking up to a 'full tank' every morning, low center of gravity makes corners fun, simple design, relatively quiet driving experience (except when you go above 60 MPH, model 3s have a crazy amount of wind noise. again, another engineering design fail), etc. Tesla's biggest strength IMO vs. other EVs is their infotainment system is extremely fast and relatively easy to use. There's nothing nicer than driving around with a huge map showing you where you are, getting lost is impossible in this vehicle. Nobody has matched their infotainment in terms of responsiveness. The whole games and YouTube thing is mostly a gimmick so I don't give them points for that.

Our conclusion is given the strides other manufacturers are making with their EVs (looking at VW, Volvo/Polestar, Ford, and a couple others here), Teslas simply aren't worth the money anymore for what you get unless you care about the 0-60 party trick every so often. No thanks, I'd rather take better interior quality, less wind noise, and less creaking over a few half seconds of acceleration. That combined with our general dislike of Musk's business antics have convinced us we're not interested in the brand anymore. By the time we're looking for another EV there will be many more better options on the market from the looks of it.

Oh and don't even get me started on the autopilot nonsense. It's terrible and mostly useless outside of the radar based cruise control. It invokes a greater sense of anxiety when in use vs. just driving the car on your own.



LOL nope! The incessant fanbase around Tesla (and some people's accompanying worship of Musk as the new tech messiah) is a reason not to read too deeply into people's raving about the cars. Too many Tesla fans write off complaints about the car as "oil shilling haters" or "people that hate musk and don't even own a tesla" in the same way you tried to imply we don't actually own one! The irony, you just said you don't own a Tesla yet but won't trust an actual owner's opinion! Many of those supposed 'oil shills' are just customers like us that have legitimate grievances. It's part of the con: paint out critics as haters or people against the mission of clean energy (a mission which Musk doesn't seem to care about given his opposition towards different transport solutions that can turbocharge the mission to net 0 emissions in the USA and globally). You're somewhat correct though just not in the way you think: I've come across a significant portion of people defending Tesla that don't actually own a Tesla themselves.

It's kinda funny, I've met other Tesla owners that say they love the car but once you get into the conversation a bit more they reveal the number of issues they've had with the car. The difference is that they'll make excuses on behalf of Tesla for those issues because of their love for the brand's marketing & sunk cost fallacy. They don't see their product as badly built or faulty, they see it as par for the course of "Tesla pushing boundaries!" when it fact a badly built car with engineering flaws is not something that should be accepted just because the company markets itself as an underdog. I'm not in the camp of people that will make excuses for bad products because I like a company. I think loving companies is stupid and causes people to not think straight. Just watch a video of a Tesla fan demonstrating the latest updates to the full self driving scam, the car literally tries to kill them and they laugh it off whilst making a defense that the system is "better than the last update!" We see it all the time in this forum: religious defense of Apple against the slightest critique because they feel attacked when a company they're emotionally invested in has flaws. I don't know what's gone wrong with our culture to cause people to make excuses on behalf of companies, it's incredible strange and depressing.

EDIT: oh I forgot another issue we had. speaker system gets loose and rattles every 6-8 months or so lol

I genuinely appreciate your reply. And I think it’s really important to hear all sides of vehicle ownership, including, but not limited to; the good, the bad and what needs to be improved. Your post is really important for others to take in consideration when considering a Model 3 or Tesla in general. For me, I think it’s vital to be objective, and that’s understanding all the positives and negatives, because I am very much involved into the EV buying market as we speak.

I can tell you, I’m somebody that’s _extremely_ particular about aesthetics and quality control. Aside from the panel gaps that I think we’ve all heard of, I can’t stand rattles, and that’s generally one of the most intrusive annoyances that can be very much interrupting, especially in a ride where you can’t hear the engine. I get it though, no manufacturer is perfect, but I believe there are quality control issues that can be avoided for the most part. Things that I don’t think are acceptable, is when the speakers are loose and rattling, that’s just not something that should be even happening in the first place.

I can tell you this, I laid this exact game plan out with my wife what I plan on doing. I actually plan on using an app called ‘Turo’, and basically what that is, you can rent a car (Any car you desire) for one day or weeks at a time. I plan on renting at least [3] Model 3’s in separate weeks and driving them all to see how I like the quality, ride control, U.I., handling, ect. Being I don’t have any accessibility to Model 3’s in my area, I feel this is the best and most appropriate route to determine if the M3 would be to my standards. So before committing to a car purchase, I can have three ‘tester’ rides before I make a decision.


Also, as for the whole ‘cult-like’ following of Elon musk and the Tesla brand, I don’t care about that in the slightest and nor am I even remotely interested in the Musk phenom. I buy a car because it meets my needs in terms of what I expect and overall gives me the pleasure of something that I enjoy. I’m not brand committed, I’ve owned loads of sports cars from every domestic manufacturer that you can think of, and I’m just ready for the next EV move. I would never let the likes of a company name and/or branding influence my decision purchasing their car.

**********************

Oh, I researched ‘Rivian’ earlier you mentioned. Some really cool technology in all kinds of climates in terms of what this company is doing, and even though they’re smaller in a target segment, they appear to have a very bright future, as I was watching a few of their demo reels earlier.

Rivian - Electric Adventure Vehicles

Whether it’s taking families on new adventures or helping fleets electrify at scale, our vehicles all share a common goal — preserving the natural world for generations to come.

rivian.com

 

[pshufd]

I genuinely appreciate your reply. And I think it’s really important to hear all sides of vehicle ownership, including, but not limited to; the good, the bad and what needs to be improved. Your post is really important for others to take in consideration when considering a Model 3 or Tesla in general. For me, I think it’s vital to be objective, and that’s understanding all the positives and negatives, because I am very much involved into the EV buying market as we speak.

I can tell you, I’m somebody that’s _extremely_ particular about aesthetics and quality control. Aside from the panel gaps that I think we’ve all heard of, I can’t stand rattles, and that’s generally one of the most intrusive annoyances that can be very much interrupting, especially in a ride where you can’t hear the engine. I get it though, no manufacturer is perfect, but I believe there are quality control issues that can be avoided for the most part. Things that I don’t think are acceptable, is when the speakers are loose and rattling, that’s just not something that should be even happening in the first place.

I can tell you this, I laid this exact game plan out with my wife what I plan on doing. I actually plan on using an app called ‘Turo’, and basically what that is, you can rent a car (Any car you desire) for one day or weeks at a time. I plan on renting at least [3] Model 3’s in separate weeks and driving them all to see how I like the quality, ride control, U.I., handling, ect. Being I don’t have any accessibility to Model 3’s in my area, I feel this is the best and most appropriate route to determine if the M3 would be to my standards. So before committing to a car purchase, I can have three ‘tester’ rides before I make a decision.


Also, as for the whole ‘cult-like’ following of Elon musk and the Tesla brand, I don’t care about that in the slightest and nor am I even remotely interested in the Musk phenom. I buy a car because it meets my needs in terms of what I expect and overall gives me the pleasure of something that I enjoy. I’m not brand committed, I’ve owned loads of sports cars from every domestic manufacturer that you can think of, and I’m just ready for the next EV move. I would never let the likes of a company name and/or branding influence my decision purchasing their car.

**********************

Oh, I researched ‘Rivian’ earlier you mentioned. Some really cool technology in all kinds of climates in terms of what this company is doing, and even though they’re smaller in a target segment, they appear to have a very bright future, as I was watching a few of their demo reels earlier.

Rivian - Electric Adventure Vehicles

Whether it’s taking families on new adventures or helping fleets electrify at scale, our vehicles all share a common goal — preserving the natural world for generations to come.

rivian.com

I drove Audis for 18 years and they were a blast to drive but a maintenance nightmare. I switched to Toyotas in 2000 and it's the complete opposite. Deathly boring to drive but service, serviceabiltiy engineering, logistics, quality and reliability are off the charts. I used to dread every little funny sound, smell or something breaking on the Audis. I've read about the Tesla QC issues over the years. I wouldn't necessarily consider that a Tesla problem - I've read about those in many other vehicles as well. If you're used to driving the best cars for quality, though, then it's hard to consider something lesser. I have not looked in a while but the main cars I would consider today if I had to buy a new one are Toyota (including Lexus), and Honda (including Acura).

I have a friend who has been a huge Tesla fan for about ten years and he's traded their stock successfully in that time. He drives some expensive BMW and replaces it fairly often. We ask him if he's going to get a Tesla and he says that it isn't the right time. Eventually we will get there. He's a senior manager at a chip company which makes a ton of automotive chips so he's well plugged in to what's happening in the car industry.

BTW, I owned a BMW a long time ago. Similar experience to my Audis. Maybe they're better now but I don't think that they are as good as Toyota and Lexus when it comes to quality and the other factors I look at.

 

[960design]

...because they don’t like Elon or his company, etc...

This part bothers me the most. How can you have an opinion one way or the other about someone you do not know? From my point of view, the guy could have just retired on an island somewhere and lived happily ever after, but decided to try something. He built an electric car company a decade before the world was ready for it, gave jobs to tens of thousands of people. Now, he is building a commercial space company, employing another ten thousand people.
What is there to dislike about a person working so hard to employee so many others?

My next vehicle (~3 years from now) will not be an electric. I'm not certain, if I will own a next vehicle after that one. Hopefully, they are all autodrive electric taxies, that you summon through your cell phone. Or even better, replace the left lane of all two lane highways with a train. Then I could just hope on the train into work, read a bit on the ride and relax.

 

[Airforcekid]

I have a Model 3 and a heavily modified Ford Mustang. The 3 is practical and a good commuter car but to me its very boring. I always miss the roar of the engine, smell of the exhaust and the feeling as my body bounces off the seat as I go through the gears. I also feel a disconnect from my 3 I know how every part functions on my Mustang and what role each part plays when I step on the gas I can sort of visualize and hear what is happening which I love and makes addressing issues a breeze. The 3 just goes and I'm not 100% sure how or what I need to be watching for to prevent issues 100K miles plus down the road. Also the Mustang came with CarPlay so another +1 for it lol.

 

[4sallypat]

actually the key advantage he forgot is: car pool access ... if you look at the Bay Area, most vehicles have 1 occupant and the carpool lane is Tesla after Tesla ...

Yes!
The CA HOV Carpool access sticker is just amazing - allows you to drive solo in the carpool lanes.

We have it on our PHEV and love it for the daily commute in the dreaded Los Angeles traffic.

We paid $22 for the stickers and they have more than paid for itself.

Our next car will be the Ford Lightning EV as it will have the federal $7500 tax credit that Tesla and GM no longer can apply it...

Plus our state offers EV credit of $1500 CFFP + $2000 CVRP + $1000 utility = $4500 really helps drop that $50K price tag...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yes!
The CA HOV Carpool access sticker is just amazing - allows you to drive solo in the carpool lanes.

We have it on our PHEV and love it for the daily commute in the dreaded Los Angeles traffic.

We paid $22 for the stickers and they have more than paid for itself.

Our next car will be the Ford Lightning EV as it will have the federal $7500 tax credit that Tesla and GM no longer can apply it...

Plus our state offers EV credit of $1500 CFFP + $2000 CVRP + $1000 utility = $4500 really helps drop that $50K price tag...

To $45,500. Massive help!

 

[Apple fanboy]

I have a Model 3 and a heavily modified Ford Mustang. The 3 is practical and a good commuter car but to me its very boring. I always miss the roar of the engine, smell of the exhaust and the feeling as my body bounces off the seat as I go through the gears. I also feel a disconnect from my 3 I know how every part functions on my Mustang and what role each part plays when I step on the gas I can sort of visualize and hear what is happening which I love and makes addressing issues a breeze. The 3 just goes and I'm not 100% sure how or what I need to be watching for to prevent issues 100K miles plus down the road. Also the Mustang came with CarPlay so another +1 for it lol.

The Tesla comes with CarPlay as well though doesn’t it? My bosses does I’m sure.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

With one exception, I've only ever owned manual transmission cars, so that will be the biggest transition for me going into EVs. I will miss that. But it's not a deal-breaker and while I have a lot of nostalgia about the ICE, I am ready to move into an EV once my Fiesta ages out and EVs in my price range hit the sales lots.

My biggest issue is that my home electricity is on the expensive side compared to national prices, and comes from an old coal plant, and NIMBYs are blocking the establishment of sustainable energy production in my area. So I won't benefit from the full potential of an EV from a cost/efficiency/emissions perspective.

 

[zakarhino]

This part bothers me the most. How can you have an opinion one way or the other about someone you do not know? From my point of view, the guy could have just retired on an island somewhere and lived happily ever after, but decided to try something. He built an electric car company a decade before the world was ready for it, gave jobs to tens of thousands of people. Now, he is building a commercial space company, employing another ten thousand people.
What is there to dislike about a person working so hard to employee so many others?

My next vehicle (~3 years from now) will not be an electric. I'm not certain, if I will own a next vehicle after that one. Hopefully, they are all autodrive electric taxies, that you summon through your cell phone. Or even better, replace the left lane of all two lane highways with a train. Then I could just hope on the train into work, read a bit on the ride and relax.

I can guarantee you have opinions on people "you do not know" otherwise your life would be functionally equivalent to that of a rural village person blissfully unaware of anything outside their own nook; that isn't the case given you're posting here. You can have an opinion on someone you don't know when they take actions publicly. Practically no US citizen has ever met a US president yet almost every citizen has an opinion on them because their public actions are a reflection of their character. I don't need to have a conversation with Vladimir Putin to know I won't get along with him, the countless historical facts detailing his reign are enough for me.

Employing people doesn't absolve you from criticism. I'm sure the Koch brothers, Bezos, and the Walton family employ many people too. Part of the American long con is to convince people like yourself that the oligarchs in this country are not self serving vampiric parasites because they're benevolent enough to give people jobs. I don't buy into that fiction. If one of Musk's most recent blatantly public grifts of pumping and dumping Bitcoin (an extremely carbon dirty use of energy) a couple years after saying "Bitcoin is only for criminals" isn't enough for you to realize he doesn't care about the climate mission then I don't know what will be enough.

 

[zakarhino]

The Tesla comes with CarPlay as well though doesn’t it? My bosses does I’m sure.

Teslas do not have CarPlay at all. They will never add it because it gives too much power to Apple. They want you using their infotainment system exclusively.

They have bluetooth compatibility though if that's what you mean.

 

[44267547]

I have a Model 3 and a heavily modified Ford Mustang. The 3 is practical and a good commuter car but to me its very boring. I always miss the roar of the engine, smell of the exhaust and the feeling as my body bounces off the seat as I go through the gears. I also feel a disconnect from my 3 I know how every part functions on my Mustang and what role each part plays when I step on the gas I can sort of visualize and hear what is happening which I love and makes addressing issues a breeze. The 3 just goes and I'm not 100% sure how or what I need to be watching for to prevent issues 100K miles plus down the road. Also the Mustang came with CarPlay so another +1 for it lol.

This is the balance that I would also have, an EV and muscle cars I own. Primarily because I don’t want to be subjected just to owning an EV, when my true passion actually is a V-8. So I still would have the best of both worlds, but I do want the whole EV experience, I’m just not entirely sure which route I’m heading with what manufacture I want yet.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Teslas do not have CarPlay at all. They will never add it because it gives too much power to Apple. They want you using their infotainment system exclusively.

They have bluetooth compatibility though if that's what you mean.

I’m going by memory as it’s been a while since he drove me anywhere in it. Strange though.

 

[Apple fanboy]

This is the balance that I would also have, an EV and muscle cars I own. Primarily because I don’t want to be subjected just to owning an EV, when my true passion actually is a V-8. So I still would have the best of both worlds, but I do want the whole EV experience, I’m just not entirely sure which route I’m heading with what manufacture I want yet.

So if someone owns a muscle car and an EV do they have a bigger or smaller carbon footprint than me with my 1.4 litre VW?

Confusing isn’t it? I don’t ask this to pass judgment. I genuinely do not know the correct answer. Nobody does.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So if someone owns a muscle car and an EV do they have a bigger or smaller carbon footprint than me with my 1.4 litre VW?

Confusing isn’t it? I don’t ask this to pass judgment. I genuinely do not know the correct answer. Nobody does.

Depends on the specific vehicles in question and their usage patterns. AND where the electricity for the EV comes from.

You can do a quick comparison for cars sold in the US here. That can give you at least a rough idea of what your emissions footprint looks like. Again, with the caveat that for EVs the source of the electricity matters.

 

[Berries-A-Million]

Not till they have a fast charging network that only takes 5-10 minutes to charge a car from zero to full like gas does. Tesla has a good network, and very appealing, but the other brands as of right now aren't there yet.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Depends on the specific vehicles in question and their usage patterns. AND where the electricity for the EV comes from.

You can do a quick comparison for cars sold in the US here. That can give you at least a rough idea of what your emissions footprint looks like. Again, with the caveat that for EVs the source of the electricity matters.

That will give you a rough idea but nothing on the environmental impact of owning two cars verses one. Many people on here say they have a back up ICE car. That somewhat defeats the object to my mind.