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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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Looked at a ‘Red multi coat’ LR Model 3 today. (It was actually a ‘tester’, but I didn’t drive it.) To be honest, it’s not the shade of red I expected and it’s probably a pass for me on that color. So what stands out to me in terms of what I observed?
Just from an aesthetic standpoint, I really do like the way the Model 3 looks, how it deep slopes from the front of the vehicle and has a really nice sporty appeal, but not going overboard either. I think it’s a mature looking vehicle, but very simplistic. I don’t care for the aero caps, but those can also be removed, but I do understand how it helps regulate the drag efficiency.
so now that the Cybertruck production has been delayed, again, which it looks like it won’t be until mid 2022 until First pre-orders might finally start shipping, I’m not sure I will wait that long or not, which narrows it down to the M3 _if_ I opt the Tesla route.
Someone did mention that the M3 tends to scratch very easily on the clear coat, which I can’t attest to, but I’m very particular about paint. So they recommended that I ceramic coat the paint, in which I always do with all my vehicles.
Just from an aesthetic standpoint, I really do like the way the Model 3 looks, how it deep slopes from the front of the vehicle and has a really nice sporty appeal, but not going overboard either. I think it’s a mature looking vehicle, but very simplistic. I don’t care for the aero caps, but those can also be removed, but I do understand how it helps regulate the drag efficiency.
so now that the Cybertruck production has been delayed, again, which it looks like it won’t be until mid 2022 until First pre-orders might finally start shipping, I’m not sure I will wait that long or not, which narrows it down to the M3 _if_ I opt the Tesla route.
Someone did mention that the M3 tends to scratch very easily on the clear coat, which I can’t attest to, but I’m very particular about paint. So they recommended that I ceramic coat the paint, in which I always do with all my vehicles.
That’s an observation I’ve made about EV’s too when discussing cars with my wife. I’ve owned mostly manuals as you’d expect being from the UK. Our children will likely never have to sit a driving test in a proper car. That aspect I think is quite sad. It’s also going to take some of the fun out of driving and I live in a part of the world where lots of car manufacturers come to test their cars in the bleak, windy mountain roads.
EV’s need to start coming out in the affordable categories too if they want to be taken seriously. As of now it’s all high end cars with the range and the quality which is rather useless for the average family.
What does everyone think of the EQS? Everything I've seen about it makes me think it's fantastic. I usually hate gimmicks like ambient lighting but the EQS' implementation is so slick. The hyperscreen looks so futuristic but it's a shame so many controls are losing physical buttons which are so much safer. Luckily the voice assistant seems very capable so basic controls that no longer have buttons can be controlled verbally which is much safer anyway. The whole thing drips with glossy luxury, they outdid themselves. I'm glad they designed an EV from scratch with S-Class principles rather than converting an S-Class to an EV. I think it's among my most anticipated EVs:
- Rivian Pickup (the first true, luxury designed from scratch EV pickup to release if it's on time. Really interested in driving dynamics given all the testing they've been spotted doing. Plus it seems like it was designed by people that actually use cars for more than just grocery shopping because there are so many practical features)
- Mercedes EQS (absolutely gorgeous, futuristic design inside and out. will probably be one of the most luxurious, comfortable EVs on the road for a good while)
- Ford F-150 Lightning (highly practical, capable, relatively affordable EV pickup with a better than expected range of up to 500 miles)
- Lucid Air (lots of interesting stuff going on here, it's like if someone started Tesla today but took on more car guys than software guys. that's probably why everything looks a tad bit more polished and practical UX-wise. The CEO and head designer of the car is the guy that supposedly saved the Model S program from being a complete dumpster fire. Based on everything they've shown us so far it's going to be a solid piece of kit.)
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I already researched Rivian, it seems like a reputable company, smaller in size, but wants to put out a EV truck that can actually withstand varying temperatures and used in rugged environments. I think if you live in the far north, or experience change of seasons where do you want an EV and want options for trucks other than just the Lightning or Cybertruck, I do think this is going to be a contender in the future. The $70,000 is at the highest price point, which does add performance.
Now, we all know looks are subjective, but the Rivian truck looks absolutely………. hideous. It looks like something straight out of concept art that was created on an iPad by fan made art:
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The Lucid Air looks really unique, in my opinion, it’s probably one of the most sharp looking EV’s to arrive on the market, next to the Porsche Taycan, which Will probably compete against Porsche, strictly because I think Lucid is really pushing the luxury segment in the EV sector, with a base model starting at $70,000, and the highest trim I believe tops off at about $165,000.
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The Ford F150 Lightning I suspect will be a very successful truck, and that’s partially because of the branding, accessibility to on-site dealerships locally, the base price is at ~$40,000, and there are four trim levels I believe you can choose from, but it offers potential with external powering of tools and even supplying power to your house if need be. @4sallypat I believe preordered one.
And anyone that has followed Ford over the years, this was the perfect marketing tactic, because the ‘Lightning’ was a performance truck from the early 2000s and now it’s being crossed used for an EV, which is perfectly fitting. So props to Ford how they were clever in that respect. I also suspect that Ford will have the upper hand on Tesla, being that the F150 will be widely available long before the Cybertruck probably even hits the market until 2nd quarter of 2022 at the earliest.
Now, to me, Ford did a great job with the design, and overall, it has a mature look that doesn’t scream ‘what the hell is that thing…..’
I believe this is the ‘Lariat Edition’, which is one of the higher trim models.
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I do agree on one specific thing that I think everybody knows, is that EV’s are not cheap. And I think that’s part of the problem for the average consumer, they probably can’t afford it, regardless if it’s supported in their community with the infrastructure or not. I do think over time, we will start seeing different trim levels of varying price points that will appeal to a larger demographic, but for those who are tech enthusiasts and want to broaden their EV experience, and can financially support it, have already been in the market or are in the market right now.
Now, we all know looks are subjective, but the Rivian truck looks absolutely………. hideous. It looks like something straight out of concept art that was created on an iPad by fan made art:
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The Lucid Air looks really unique, in my opinion, it’s probably one of the most sharp looking EV’s to arrive on the market, next to the Porsche Taycan, which Will probably compete against Porsche, strictly because I think Lucid is really pushing the luxury segment in the EV sector, with a base model starting at $70,000, and the highest trim I believe tops off at about $165,000.
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The Ford F150 Lightning I suspect will be a very successful truck, and that’s partially because of the branding, accessibility to on-site dealerships locally, the base price is at ~$40,000, and there are four trim levels I believe you can choose from, but it offers potential with external powering of tools and even supplying power to your house if need be. @4sallypat I believe preordered one.
And anyone that has followed Ford over the years, this was the perfect marketing tactic, because the ‘Lightning’ was a performance truck from the early 2000s and now it’s being crossed used for an EV, which is perfectly fitting. So props to Ford how they were clever in that respect. I also suspect that Ford will have the upper hand on Tesla, being that the F150 will be widely available long before the Cybertruck probably even hits the market until 2nd quarter of 2022 at the earliest.
Now, to me, Ford did a great job with the design, and overall, it has a mature look that doesn’t scream ‘what the hell is that thing…..’
I believe this is the ‘Lariat Edition’, which is one of the higher trim models.
Edit:
I do agree on one specific thing that I think everybody knows, is that EV’s are not cheap. And I think that’s part of the problem for the average consumer, they probably can’t afford it, regardless if it’s supported in their community with the infrastructure or not. I do think over time, we will start seeing different trim levels of varying price points that will appeal to a larger demographic, but for those who are tech enthusiasts and want to broaden their EV experience, and can financially support it, have already been in the market or are in the market right now.
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Have seldom owned a car (last one was for a couple of years, over 20 year ago), but would like to go electric if I do get another….. and the situation suited.
However, living in a rented apartment at present, with limited off street parking, it does not look good for home charging, which seems a factor in making EV work for day to day transport.
Have usually owned, or had access to a small to medium sized motorcycles for more than 55 years. Early days for electric motorcycles yet. Once they get more energy density into the batteries, to get a decent range without too much weight, I would be interested for sure. But for now EV m/c is too expensive and impractical from my point of view. Problem of charging for an apartment dweller would need to be sorted too.
Been a cyclist for more than 60 years, and a bicycle remains my preferred ride within a 10 - 20 km radius of where I live. No charging hassles.….. Not looking to go electric assist bicycle any time soon..... maybe in a dozen years or so, when I am over 80!
However, living in a rented apartment at present, with limited off street parking, it does not look good for home charging, which seems a factor in making EV work for day to day transport.
Have usually owned, or had access to a small to medium sized motorcycles for more than 55 years. Early days for electric motorcycles yet. Once they get more energy density into the batteries, to get a decent range without too much weight, I would be interested for sure. But for now EV m/c is too expensive and impractical from my point of view. Problem of charging for an apartment dweller would need to be sorted too.
Been a cyclist for more than 60 years, and a bicycle remains my preferred ride within a 10 - 20 km radius of where I live. No charging hassles.….. Not looking to go electric assist bicycle any time soon..... maybe in a dozen years or so, when I am over 80!
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Yes, I will be the first year (beta tester lab rat) for a Ford EV truck in 2022.
The biggest financial draw with EV is that almost all brands (except for GM & Tesla) are able to get the price lowered by $7500 (Federal tax credit) which really helps with the cost of ownership or lease contract.
The next draw is the state & local credits / rebates on an EV. In California, we get $2000 EV state, $1500 Clean fuel, $1000 power company monies.
All in all, a total discount of $12,000 currently makes it easy to choose an EV.
My current ride: 2018 Honda Clarity (being discontinued this year) has been a charm - original $35000 MSRP with all discounts was actually $22,000 including TTL. 50 miles per charge really keeps going to the gas pump to almost nil.
I think the Rivian is the most interesting EV to be coming to the market. That said, I suspect the F-150 Lightening has the potential of being a very important EV. It may be the vehicle that makes inroads to middle America who otherwise hasn't had much interest in EVs. Or it might flop. Ford put a lot of clever and useful features into the Lightening (i.e. you can basically use it as a generator) that might be very appealing to those who really use their truck as a truck.
Personally, I don't like the styling of the EQS at all. It looks like an old stretched Honda Civic or something and the CLA (absolute garbage, no offense to any CLA owners) made a baby. There was an article in the WSJ the other day about the EQS. Apparently Mercedes is planning on charging $600/year subscription to enable the rear wheel steering. IMO that's absolutely ridiculous, especially on a $150,000+ car. It seems like an awfully expensive technology to put in every car standard that owners may or may not be enable longterm. Not sure how these subscription features will work years from now either when Mercedes inevitably stops supporting the cars.
I really hate this trend of software enabled/disabled features in cars. I suspect its only going to get a lot worse as cars get more advanced.
A few years ago BMW tried charging subscriptions for CarPlay, but eventually made it standard. I suspect they A. got a lot of backlash B. realized they looked ridiculous when even the cheapest cars offer CarPlay and C. most people know Apple doesn't charge manufactures to license CarPlay.
Really? Interest rates are so low at the moment. My savings are going backwards!
Sure, but over the long term, the SP500 has returned around 9% per year. Now during the life of a car loan (3-6 years) might it remain stagnant or even go down? Sure. It also might gain 15% a year. But I don’t see how I can assume anything other than the average rate of return when deciding between taking a loan and investing the principle vs paying cash up front.
Yeah, I mean investment in the market.
Yes, I will be the first year (beta tester lab rat) for a Ford EV truck in 2022.
The biggest financial draw with EV is that almost all brands (except for GM & Tesla) are able to get the price lowered by $7500 (Federal tax credit) which really helps with the cost of ownership or lease contract.
The next draw is the state & local credits / rebates on an EV. In California, we get $2000 EV state, $1500 Clean fuel, $1000 power company monies.
All in all, a total discount of $12,000 currently makes it easy to choose an EV.
My current ride: 2018 Honda Clarity (being discontinued this year) has been a charm - original $35000 MSRP with all discounts was actually $22,000 including TTL. 50 miles per charge really keeps going to the gas pump to almost nil.
We have no tax incentives/rebates here for EV’s, which is a massive hindrance for people interested. For myself, it’s not a deterrent that there’s no rebates, but I think you would have more people on board or at least inclined to do more research if there was, but that’s the downfall to not having an infrastructure that supports EV the way California does.
As for the Lightning, the only concern I would have moving into buying a ‘first production model’, is kind of what the Mach-E was experiencing with reports over the last three months, which was a lot of software issues. Fortunately, most of which can be patched without even you driving to the dealership with OTA updates. Otherwise, I look forward to seeing a lot more off-road testing, and how it holds up into more extreme temperatures, say -10° in a state like North Dakota or Minnesota in the middle of February.
I’ll definitely be interested to see what your experience is once you take delivery and your overall usage. I think this next 18 months will be really telling to see what happens in the truck segment with the Cybertruck, F-150 and Rivian.
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I had the same concern when I got the first year Honda Clarity PHEV but it has been problem free and has only needed inexpensive oil changes for the last 3 years.
There were software updates for some glitches that were taken care of on the first service appointment.
The F150 Lightning truck if it uses the same battery chemistry as the Tesla or Honda, I would say that cold temps degrade the range of the battery. On the Honda Clarity forum, members are reporting about 30-40% reduction in range during the winter months. While I am lucky to be in hot southern California, I have never seen a drop in range all year around - I get 100-125% of the range per charge. So I actually get more miles per charge than northern state folks.
I think when auto manufacturers change to a different battery chemistry, it will revolutionize owners in the cold states.
Well, with the new Tesla Model 3 , I do believe it includes a ‘heat pump’ for the battery, which is a crucial feature if you do live in the north, it’s almost to the point where I wouldn’t consider a M3 that didn’t have one, because winters can be savagely cold.
Also, I took this picture today at Ford’s local ‘eco-show’ outside Detroit. I got to say, the F150 Lightning looks awesome in person. Of all the vehicles they had there, there were lines of people waiting to see this, and it was totally worth it. I normally never say this, but I do think the Lightning will be the next big thing in the truck segment.
That's so cool to see the Lightning EV truck in person!
I love the front trunk (frunk) that can hold a couple of full golf clubs, power output galore, & front bumper gate party with the built in ice chest & water drain feature!
As for cold temps, I do hope that Ford does install a battery warmer like the Canadians get with their Clarity batteries...
The increase in the 2000s, in large part, is due to the Fed support of the markets which is why we haven't had a significant crash since 2008. So MMT or welfare for investors. There have been long periods of time where the main indexes haven't done much.
I would rather loan money out than borrow it myself. You can make some serious capital gains when interest rates go down.
For those with electric cars.
What brand chargers do you prefer
- when traveling out on the road and why?
- for fast charging at home and why?
What brand chargers do you prefer
- when traveling out on the road and why?
- for fast charging at home and why?
Out and about - Tesla Superchargers for the Tesla. "Electrify America" for the BMW i3. Electrify America has issues with the i3 (the plug weighs so much that it doesn't make good solid connection unless you physically hold its weight up while the car "negotiates" with the charger. Once charging actually starts, you can release the pressure.)
Home - You don't "fast charge" at home. "Fast Charging" almost universally refers to using a DC rapid charger (Tesla Supercharger, CCS, or CHAdeMO plug,) that sends between 50 kW and 350 kW directly to the battery. At home, you use AC charging on a much lower-power system. (240 V AC at 30-50 Amps is standard, 7.2 to 9.6 kW; although there are a few higher-power that go up to 80 Amps / 19.2 kW, like some early Teslas and the upcoming Ford "Charge Station Pro" for the F-150 Lightning.) The AC power is fed to AC-to-DC charging circuitry in the vehicle, so maximum charge rate is absolutely dependent on what the vehicle supports.
Home charging solutions are technically called "EVSEs" - Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. They are basically big fancy circuit breakers, rather than things that actively talk to the car's battery.
I use two Enel-X JuiceBox 40 EVSEs. They are WiFi connected, and "talk" to each other. I have them configured so they are on one single electrical circuit that can supply 50 Amps maximum. So when I have two vehicles plugged in, they split 50 Amps between them (25 Amps each) until one finishes charging, then the remaining vehicle takes over full power.
I think that buying any kind of car is a bit of a challenge today due to the shortage of chips. I'd imagine that EVs have more electronics than ICE vehicles. TSM and INTC are building fabs and they will hopefully be online by then.
I can barely remember to charge my phone, what chance would I have with a car..