I just read that the current inventory of new cars in the US is 200K. Normal inventory is 1M. If you're buying a car next year and we still are in the chip shortage, then you may want to take whatever you can find.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
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I just read that the current inventory of new cars in the US is 200K. Normal inventory is 1M. If you're buying a car next year and we still are in the chip shortage, then you may want to take whatever you can find.
You have options for sure. One is the upcoming Nissan Ariya that should be out in your time frame. A current SUV is the Tesla Model X. The Tesla Model Y, also available today, is SUV-ish, more of a CUV if that would meet your needs. All are in 4-wheel-drive for NH weather. The Ford Mustang Mach-e is another option, again more like a CUV than a full SUV. New to the market is the Volkswagen ID.4 getting pretty good reviews. The Volvo XC40 SUV is available now as all-electric also. Audi offers the all-electric SUV e-tron, with Audi’s famous superb fit and finish. This, next, and the following years will be exciting times for electrics in the traditional sedan markets, CUV/SUV’s, and pickup trucks.
As to recommendations, my first choice would be one of the Teslas, either the Model X if I needed the size and could pay the price, or more realistically for me the Model Y. Since I have a Model 3 that I love, I’m admittedly biased. Tesla’s huge plus for me is their Supercharger network for long-distance traveling. Given that most of us don’t travel long distance a lot, what is really important is to have a 240v charging station at home to charge your vehicle overnight.
Another thought here, you might want to consider a used EV. Unlike most internal-combustion engine (ICE) vehicles that age out (repair costs begin to get expensive) over 100,000 miles or so, electrics can easily go 300,000 or more miles without significant battery degradation nowadays. Also, brake linings last forever since most braking is done by regenerating electricity as you slow.
Good luck in your evaluation…fun times indeed.
I completely agree with your comments but want to caution readers that an EV is not really completely no maintenance. For sure there is very, very low maintenance on drive train components as the electric motors can last forever with little-to-no attention compared to the recurring needs for internal combustion engines and transmissions. However, the rest of the vehicle is just a vehicle with normal maintenance requirements, plus the occasional battery health and battery coolant checks.
You still have wiper blades, tires, wheel alignments, shocks, brake jobs (MUCH less often but still necessary), cabin air filters, body lubrication, 12v starter batteries to maintain/replace, etc., on an EV just as on all cars. These tend to be dependent upon how much you drive but all are still necessary to keep your vehicle in top and safest condition. As you implied though, the big savings are no oil changes, no oil filters, no tune-ups, no transmission fluid checks/changes, no water pumps to fail, no engine wear, far fewer brake lining replacements, no timing belts, no air cleaners, no fuel cleaners, no oxygen sensors, no mufflers, no catalytic converters to be stolen (yeah, that’s a thing now), no fuel costs, no emissions checks for annual registration in states that require that, and so on. So big savings for sure, and those savings are for the life of your car ownership. Good indeed!
Right now, to me, EV replace one set of problems with another. I’m going to wait a few years to see where the industry goes. Hybrids to me are the best approach to gas mileage and saving the environment, while not worrying about range and charging times.
Just wanted to share my experience about range/charging times as a datapoint in your analysis for yourself. In early 2012 I initially got a 2012 Nissan LEAF that ostensibly had a 73-mile range. It was my gateway drug to EV ownership and it became the “around town” and short errands vehicle. Loved it. Still have it. But now due to the very weak batteries used by Nissan, the vehicle gets no more than 35 miles on a full charge. Still useful, still like the car, but can’t really go anywhere.
Fast forward to 2018. I replaced our ICE SUV and bought a Tesla Model 3, with an advertised 310-mile range. Fast forward again to 2021 and the Model 3 still has an actual range of 306 miles. For me, this points out the superiority of Tesla’s battery construction and battery management. Note my charging times are zero. That is, I plug in overnight and always have a “full tank” the next morning. So for routine local commutes and errands, charging is a complete non-issue, as are any range concerns.
Long-distance travel is another matter. Depending upon which brand vehicle you get, long-distance travel can be a minor concern to a major detractor. Thanks to Tesla’s amazing and now commonplace Supercharger (SC) network, range anxiety for trips is pretty much a thing of the past. There are still a few Supercharger deserts (Alaska, for example), but most of the rest of the US is covered very, very well and more SC’s are being installed daily.
As to charging time, it is very rare you’d spend more than 20-25 minutes at a SC. You normally don’t drive an EV to an extremely low battery state of charge, charge up fully, then repeat. Yes, that would take a much longer time. The more common usage is to drive down to 15-20% capacity, charge up to whatever you’ll need to get to the next SC, and go. Charging at lower states of charge is much faster than at higher levels, and the overall trip time is reduced with multiple short stops as opposed to fewer long charges. This is counterintuitive to travel in an ICE vehicle to be sure.
I’ve taken my Model 3 on many 12-hour drives from NC to MI, NC to FL, and the like with absolutely no range thoughts whatever. SC stops every 2-3 hours take just about the same amount of time as a potty stop and getting a drink or bit to eat. The overall door-to-door time is a bit longer in an EV than an ICE; my 12-hour trip to MI used to be an 11-hour trip in an ICE, but the drive is soooo much better in a quieter, very comfortable, “greener” EV.
There are lots of reasons one may postpone getting an EV, but the good news is that at least for Tesla’s and soon others with the incipient charging network build-outs, range anxiety and charging times are fading as concerns.
I appreciate the perspective…which is why I said in a few years the landscape may change. Comes the day when you can take an EV everyplace an ICE can be taken we will know they (EV)have arrived.
I will be convinced when Toyota makes one. They are into easy, convenient, low-maintenance and quality. It can be difficult looking at other cars when you are used to the tops in quality and reliability. Even if they are ugly and boring.
If I were buying an electric/hybrid SUV, it would be a Toyota RAV4 Prime. This year (2021), it's also a plug-in EV as well as hybrid allowing electric-only mode for shorter distances. Toyota has great reliability and longevity (Consumer Reports). For practicality purposes, I'm also waiting for a hybrid Tacoma that Toyota may introduce in the next year or so.
That's an interesting vehicle. I do wish that the gas tank was a little larger for a bit more range. I don't need all of the bells and whistles on the prime models (they are usually sportier than the regular models). The gas tank is 14.5 gallons and it gets 40 MPG. The electric range is 42 miles on the battery so not that much. It is probably enough for a lot of commuters though.
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Me too. I usually don't want to pay for fancy extras that jack up the price. But the plug-in feature of this model is appealing, making it more electric than pure hybrid based on driving distance.
But it is 42 miles range in EV mode, then 600 (overall) miles with gasoline after that (as I understand).
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The ability to just plug into a 120V outlet is attractive as it means that you don't need a charging station. The parking garage when I worked at the office has 120V outlets and people with plug-ins used to charge while at the office. I guess you don't get a lot of power but maybe not an issue if you have a short commute and you can always switch to gasoline.
I had a look at the Camry Hybrid and it is not plugin. They also drop the fuel tank from 15.8 to 13.2 gallons. It appears that the space for the battery is made by making the gasoline tank smaller. The RAV4 obviously has more room for the batteries. I think that we will see more evolution from Toyota and maybe get some more range from electric. What I'd like to see is Hybrid LE models with a 16 gallon tank and 80 mile EV range. I've always been a car person but I drove a RAV4 for about ten days a few years ago and did like it.
The one major annoyance that I had with it was opening the liftgate. You couldn't do that from the drivers seat unless you used the remote and I like to just push a button in the cabin to do that.
I checked my local dealer and they have 3 of the Prime models for sale - which kind of indicates that it isn't popular. They have 7 of the Hybrid models for sale too. My guess is that EVs and Hybrids are not popular in my state. There are a bunch of benefits of the Prime over the regular Hybrid but I still prefer to get a lower trim level. Perhaps another iteration will result in some kind of base model plugin.
You’ll get there. For some people, they’re early adopters and other people it takes time. It really depends on your demographic of where you live and if you have the charging capabilities depending on your commute, and how much you would actually drive XYZ.
My biggest gripe is I can’t stand the fluctuating fuel prices. It’s ridiculous, where gas went up $.34 in my area just for the holiday weekend. Now, I don’t mind putting 93 octane in my performance cars, because that’s strictly for fun. But for my daily drivers, I can save so much money by passing by the fuel pumps just to paying a few extra dollars to charge my EV on my monthly electric bill.
The only consideration for me is not if I’m buying an electric car, it’s just a matter of when, given the automotive market is just absolutely upside down right now with delays, production issues, logistics is completely out of whack, etc. I’ve never seen anything like this, where every type of domestic and foreign automotive dealer in my area, probably has less than 10 vehicles on their lot. I have no idea how people in automotive sales are making a living at this point.
I live in a rented apartment without a garage or charging station. I park anywhere I find a parking space in my neighbourhood. Electric cars therefore are no option for me as I never know where and when to charge and even if there would be a charging station I don't want to fight with others over who gets to charge first, vandalism and such.
As long as battery cars have only very limited range I don't see any use for me. They still might be okay for local delivery trucks and short distance commuting. However this is what I get covered by walking, biking or public transport.
Possibly hydrogen will be better in the future. Fast refuelling and less car weight and no need for copper cables everywhere, lithium mining spoiling our drinking water and all those bad things associated with batteries. However any hydrogen used must be made "green" and cheap. Two major hurdles.
As long as battery cars have only very limited range I don't see any use for me. They still might be okay for local delivery trucks and short distance commuting. However this is what I get covered by walking, biking or public transport.
Possibly hydrogen will be better in the future. Fast refuelling and less car weight and no need for copper cables everywhere, lithium mining spoiling our drinking water and all those bad things associated with batteries. However any hydrogen used must be made "green" and cheap. Two major hurdles.
That’s common to every business right now. I’ve worked in purchasing and logistics for 20+ years and have never known it so bad.
Also would like to see hydrogen take off, but sadly all the car companies are putting their R&D £££ into electric.
Toyota is said to have moved "all" their research funding from hybrid to hydrogen a while ago.
Within car manufacturers there seem to be some strange wording games, what "electric" means. Some seem to claim hybrid cars with fuel engines are "electric". So announcing "all our cars will be electric by the year XX" this can mean all cars will only be hybrid, maybe for legal or image reasons, but still rely on conventional piston engine fuel burn.
I see this electric move take way longer than announced.
Within car manufacturers there seem to be some strange wording games, what "electric" means. Some seem to claim hybrid cars with fuel engines are "electric". So announcing "all our cars will be electric by the year XX" this can mean all cars will only be hybrid, maybe for legal or image reasons, but still rely on conventional piston engine fuel burn.
I see this electric move take way longer than announced.
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Don't know the prices in the US, but until car manufacturers stop taking the piss in the UK with the outrageous prices, no EV for a looooong time.
Car manufacturers have hit a 'gold mine' with climate change, and are taking full advantage of customers.
You have a car...same body/chassis/wheels/interior, no combustion engine/fuel tank etc, just an electric motor and battery, so why is it not the same price......?
Also (in the UK), anyone buying an EV should get a home charger fitted for FREE.
Apart from the environmental benefits, there is zero incentive to pay 30-50% more for the same car.
Car manufacturers have hit a 'gold mine' with climate change, and are taking full advantage of customers.
You have a car...same body/chassis/wheels/interior, no combustion engine/fuel tank etc, just an electric motor and battery, so why is it not the same price......?
Also (in the UK), anyone buying an EV should get a home charger fitted for FREE.
Apart from the environmental benefits, there is zero incentive to pay 30-50% more for the same car.
I’m the U.K. any new card with an ICE (even hybrids) will be outlawed by 2030. That isn’t very long away.
For global markets every manufacturer will still have to build and offer conventional cars. If battery performance is not boosted somehow many conventional car jobs can't be done in the future on battery power it seems. Living on the countryside will put you out of range from jobs, friends, family, shopping, doctors and such. Can this really be allowed to happen? I think many people only slowly realise what it takes, costs and changes.
This has become some ideology and industry's demand booster but no honest environment protection strategy. Limit high speed, tax cars by weight, motivate people to share rides - those would be low hanging fruits if it is the environment you care about.
This has become some ideology and industry's demand booster but no honest environment protection strategy. Limit high speed, tax cars by weight, motivate people to share rides - those would be low hanging fruits if it is the environment you care about.
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And at the same time power companies will increase their prices due to all the car charging, even though they are using solar/wind farms.
I just counted the new car inventory at my Toyota dealer: 101 cars. They also have 255 used cars. My guess is that new car inventory is normally about 1,000 cars. We are not in a densely populated state which may explain the decent inventory.
The automotive market is crazy and I'm glad I am not looking for new car in today's market.
The thing about EVs is I wonder these superchargers that Tesla is rolling out...who is paying for the electricity? Tesla or the taxpayers. In addition, these rebates are coming out of my (figuratively: the tax payers wallet). The insurance is hard to get and expensive. The country is not yet ready for EVs, which are really geared to the 25 mile around town radius.
Tesla pays for the superchargers. Tesla drivers pay for the electricity since superchargers are not free( Tesla charges ~30 cents per kwh). Though the reason Tesla is opening up the supercharger network to other EV's right now is because of the new infrastructure bill containing funding for charging stations and believe part of the requirements to receive such funding is to allow any EV to plug in and use it.
The ability for EV's to do road trips still largely hinges where you live. Like for me, I can take my Model 3 to my aunts house which is ~200 miles away and get there on one charge and recharge at their place( abeit very slowly on 120V). And there are plenty for superchargers on the way back home if I had to stop for 15 minutes to get enough charge to get me home to plug back in. While I agree the country isn't ready for EV's, the current state is a lot better than your 25 mile around town radius. Plenty of people road trip and camp in their Tesla's.
The majority of the country is not ready or necessarily set up for EV’s entirely, I agree there (Especially the Midwest is severely lacking). But the changes are already happening in our communities every day, where I’m seeing more EV’s more than ever than I did even two years ago on the roads, along with more superchargers. The reality is, we just need more manufactures on board to put more models/makes available to consumers with different price points. Right now, the choices are very limited. From my perspective, I’d say to reach a full maturation process to have a broadband supercharger network, price points for trim various models, will probably by the end of this decade.
As for prices, there’s different levels that people can afford. As an example, I don’t think ~$45,000 for a median price for an EV really is all that much money given the potential cost savings and the technology behind the package you’re buying. But it’s all subjective on many factors.
One point of contention I have in your post is you said “The insurance is not cheap and hard to get”. Now, I don’t know what you mean by ‘hard to get’. But where I’m at, it’s not difficult, unless of course you have an insurance agency that doesn’t cover EV’s, which I haven’t heard of from anyone that I know in my connections of that happening. Also, the insurance company that I use, they told me that EV’s previously were classified as an ‘exotic’ years ago, because they didn’t have a category developed for EV’s. But that since has changed, and now they’re classified as a domestic four-door sedan, which was explained to me that it brings the premium cost way down. But more than anything, your insurance is really based on your age and driving record (Typically male premiums are much higher). And that I know directly from experience working in the DOT industry.