Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[macbookm1airlover]

Looking at purchasing an i3 at some point in the next 3-4 months...seem like solid cars and relatively cheap used.

 

[I7guy]

The majority of the country is not ready or necessarily set up for EV’s entirely, I agree there (Especially the Midwest is severely lacking). But the changes are already happening in our communities every day, where I’m seeing more EV’s more than ever than I did even two years ago on the roads, along with more superchargers. The reality is, we just need more manufactures on board to put more models/makes available to consumers with different price points. Right now, the choices are very limited. From my perspective, I’d say to reach a full maturation process to have a broadband supercharger network, price points for trim various models, will probably by the end of this decade.

As for prices, there’s different levels that people can afford. As an example, I don’t think ~$45,000 for a median price for an EV really is all that much money given the potential cost savings and the technology behind the package you’re buying. But it’s all subjective on many factors.

One point of contention I have in your post is you said “The insurance is not cheap and hard to get”. Now, I don’t know what you mean by ‘hard to get’. But where I’m at, it’s not difficult, unless of course you have an insurance agency that doesn’t cover EV’s, which I haven’t heard of from anyone that I know in my connections of that happening. Also, the insurance company that I use, they told me that EV’s previously were classified as an ‘exotic’ years ago, because they didn’t have a category developed for EV’s. But that since has changed, and now they’re classified as a domestic four-door sedan, which was explained to me that it brings the premium cost way down. But more than anything, your insurance is really based on your age and driving record (Typically male premiums are much higher). And that I know directly from experience working in the DOT industry.

I live on the east coast, the tri-state area. A few of my associates had acquired various Tesla models and each one said insurance was difficult to find. The standard geico, Allstate , liberty mutual didn’t have Tesla coverage. They had to go to specific brokers and it was expensive. (I didn’t ask any numbers)

 

[Richard8655]

I just counted the new car inventory at my Toyota dealer: 101 cars. They also have 255 used cars. My guess is that new car inventory is normally about 1,000 cars. We are not in a densely populated state which may explain the decent inventory.

My local Toyota dealers have almost nothing new in stock (Chicago suburbs). When having an oil change done, I always peruse the dealer's new car lot and am surprised how empty. Huge populated metropolis probably makes the difference.

When going to the dealer's website to see what's available, it can be deceiving I think. Models that may show available, many if not most are located elsewhere and need to be shipped there.

 

[I7guy]

I will be convinced when Toyota makes one. They are into easy, convenient, low-maintenance and quality. It can be difficult looking at other cars when you are used to the tops in quality and reliability. Even if they are ugly and boring.

On that front of quality and reliability I agree about Toyota. Honda as well. Their resale is a reflection of that quality.

 

[Tech198]

Too early to tell.... but probably no. My Mac is already non reapirable DIY... I don't want my car to be the same.

 

[pshufd]

When going to the dealer's website to see what's available, it can be deceiving I think. Models that may show available, many if not most are located elsewhere and need to be shipped there.

My dealer has indicators for off-site vehicles.

One note: the cars for sale tend to be higher-spec models. They have equipment that most people wouldn't want. The last time I was there, they had two Avalons on the lot. Both were TRD models. The demographic for the Avalon is people over 50 that want a smooth, comfortable ride. The TRD is the sporty version.

They do have a number of Camry LE models which are normally big sellers for car-buyers but most want SUVs these days.

 

[nrvna76]

My Model Y is scheduled for mid December. Insurance quote was about $18 a month more than my tacoma.

 

[pshufd]

-- Bankrate

One thing about Toyotas is that it's pretty easy finding places to work on them with either routine maintenance or collision repair. I think that the availability of parts is correlated to the number of your particular model that they produced for your year. If your model/year sold 500K, then parts are likely to be available for a long time.

 

[44267547]

I live on the east coast, the tri-state area. A few of my associates had acquired various Tesla models and each one said insurance was difficult to find. The standard geico, Allstate , liberty mutual didn’t have Tesla coverage. They had to go to specific brokers and it was expensive. (I didn’t ask any numbers)

Well, I did some quick research, and Allstate actually does cover a Tesla Model 3 for example(Link below). As a matter of fact, I even got a quote from them. They’re a major insurance company, and I’d be surprised that they wouldn’t cover a Tesla. I wouldn’t be surprised the likes of something like Geico or Liberty mutual or the General that wouldn’t cover a Tesla, those are garbage insurance companies.

Tesla Model 3 Car Insurance Cost | Allstate

How much does Tesla Model 3 car insurance cost? Learn about Tesla Model 3 insurance rates, available discounts and more.

www.allstate.com

More than anything, the most important part of insurance, isnt necessarily a company that will cover a Tesla, because there’s plenty of them out there that do. It’s to find one that your premiums are reasonable. And most reputable insurance companies, with a good driving record, The goal should be to pay premiums that are affordable, not over-inflated.

 

[pshufd]

The problem with coverage is that relatively minor accidents can result in total write-offs because the Tesla is quite well integrated instead of a modular design.

 

[quagmire]

The problem with coverage is that relatively minor accidents can result in total write-offs because the Tesla is quite well integrated instead of a modular design.

Also has to do with Tesla wanting full on replacement of parts instead of accepting cheaper methods like filler putty.

 

[Richard8655]

My dealer has indicators for off-site vehicles.

One note: the cars for sale tend to be higher-spec models. They have equipment that most people wouldn't want. The last time I was there, they had two Avalons on the lot. Both were TRD models. The demographic for the Avalon is people over 50 that want a smooth, comfortable ride. The TRD is the sporty version.

They do have a number of Camry LE models which are normally big sellers for car-buyers but most want SUVs these days.

Yeah, this SUV fad has really taken over. It's funny, most people don't use them for any kind of sport or rough road driving, but rather like a traditional car. The attraction must be the looks, which doesn't appeal to me much. I must be in the minority, but would rather own a smaller, less imposing Camry or Corolla. Compared to those same models years ago, these have exploded in size too!

 

[Michael Scrip]

Yeah, this SUV fad has really taken over. It's funny, most people don't use them for any kind of sport or rough road driving, but rather like a traditional car. The attraction must be the looks, which doesn't appeal to me much. I must be in the minority, but would rather own a smaller, less imposing Camry or Corolla. Compared to those same models years ago, these have exploded in size too!

I think a big reason people buy SUVs is for the versatility.

All cars can carry people. But SUVs can carry people during the week... and you fold down the seats to carry large items from Home Depot on the weekend.

You're right... most SUVs will never see a dirt road or mountain trail.

So just think of them as taller station wagons.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yeah, this SUV fad has really taken over. It's funny, most people don't use them for any kind of sport or rough road driving, but rather like a traditional car. The attraction must be the looks, which doesn't appeal to me much. I must be in the minority, but would rather own a smaller, less imposing Camry or Corolla. Compared to those same models years ago, these have exploded in size too!

Also not a fan. Much rather be lower to the road.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think a big reason people buy SUVs is for the versatility.

All cars can carry people. But SUVs can carry people during the week... and you fold down the seats to carry large items from Home Depot on the weekend.

You're right... most SUVs will never see a dirt road or mountain trail.

So just think of them as taller station wagons.

People also like the higher viewing position when driving.

 

[Richard8655]

Give me the old station wagon instead of an SUV. At least you can reach across the roof to properly wash and wax. 😀

 

[HDFan]

As an example, I don’t think ~$45,000 for a median price for an EV really is all that much money

especially when the U.S. average new car sellling price is $42,258. Don't know how people can afford it.

Average New-Vehicle Prices Hit All-Time High, According to Kelley Blue Book

The estimated average transaction price (ATP) for a light vehicle in the United States was $42,258 in June 2021, according to the analysts at Kelley Blue Book. New-vehicle prices increased $2,527...

mediaroom.kbb.com

 

[newwavedave]

I have a Mini Cooper S Electric and I live in Florida. I'll say I love the torque of my electric. The faces of the guys in their muscle cars as I fly past them is hilarious. The only downside is the Mini Cooper only has a 100 mile range. It was really great when the mall that I work at had free charging, but now they charge so much it's almost not worth it having electric.

 

[pshufd]

especially when the U.S. average new car sellling price is $42,258. Don't know how people can afford it.

Average New-Vehicle Prices Hit All-Time High, According to Kelley Blue Book

The estimated average transaction price (ATP) for a light vehicle in the United States was $42,258 in June 2021, according to the analysts at Kelley Blue Book. New-vehicle prices increased $2,527...

mediaroom.kbb.com

I‘d guess that it’s a barbell distribution. If not, then driven by a lot of debt.

 

[Biro]

On some techie sites I am accused of being anti-EV. But I'm not. It's just that they don't work for me yet. EVs are genuine options for quite a bit more people today than five years ago. And I expect that trend to continue. But, unless one lives in an urban or suburban area and is preferably a homeowner (a house not an apartment/co-op/condo), EVs can still be a challenge.

Whether it's purchase price, driving range, recharging time, availability of chargers on the road or even availability of attractive/desirable vehicles, EVs are just not quite ready for prime time. Again, that is likely to change over time but, for me, the value proposition is not yet there. Perhaps a hybrid as an interim step.

And then there is the problem that all new cars have for me these days in the form of too much unwanted technology. I'm no luddite and have been an early adopter most of my life. But some tech is becoming too intrusive. I'm talking about electronic nannies like automatic braking, lane-departure warning, driver monitoring and always-on Internet connectivity. This crap is rapidly being made standard equipment on all vehicles, regardless of propulsion system. And it's all to indulge a generation of drivers who cannot or will not look up from their phones.

In the case of 24/7 connectivity, it's so the autommakers can gather information about you and sell it to third parties. They've openly said it's the next frontier in profitability. Without privacy legislation from Congress requiring opt-in instead of opt-out, I'll pass on all of this for as long as I can. Which is saying quite a bit for this lifelong auto and driving enthusiast.

 

[44267547]

I have a Mini Cooper S Electric and I live in Florida. I'll say I love the torque of my electric. The faces of the guys in their muscle cars as I fly past them is hilarious. The only downside is the Mini Cooper only has a 100 mile range. It was really great when the mall that I work at had free charging, but now they charge so much it's almost not worth it having electric.

It sounds like a fun car, and I bet it is quick with the lower weight, and I bet it corners real sharp. I’m not saying this is you, but it vexes me when people compare ‘how fast their EV vehicle is compared to a muscle car’. Well, everybody already knows that. And the whole power spectrum with an EV -v.s.- a muscle car is not mutually related. Those are two different types of force of motion you’re comparing. No ICE muscle-car can/could ever compare to the instant torque from an electric vehicle. I have two high performance [Track] muscle cars myself, (both being a centrifugal supercharged Cobra and a belt driven Camaro SS), and even though the horsepower rating is considerably higher over an electric car, they really don’t belong in the same segment in terms of how you measure power.

I will say though, you have peaked my interest where I kind of want to look at the Mini Cooper S-EV, we do have a dealer not that far from here.

 

[pshufd]

House Democrats area proposing up to $12,500 tax credits for EVs -- investing.com. I wonder if Plugin hybrids count. That RAV4 Prime becomes far more interesting if it does.

Edit: RAV 4 isn't elegible. The proposal is for union-made ZEV assembled in the United States. Teslas wouldn't be eligible either. The Ford F150 would be.

U.S. Democrats propose dramatic expansion of EV tax credits that favors Big Three By Reuters

U.S. Democrats propose dramatic expansion of EV tax credits that favors Big Three

www.investing.com

 

[quagmire]

House Democrats area proposing up to $12,500 tax credits for EVs -- investing.com. I wonder if Plugin hybrids count. That RAV4 Prime becomes far more interesting if it does.

Edit: RAV 4 isn't elegible. The proposal is for union-made ZEV assembled in the United States. Teslas wouldn't be eligible either. The Ford F150 would be.

U.S. Democrats propose dramatic expansion of EV tax credits that favors Big Three By Reuters

U.S. Democrats propose dramatic expansion of EV tax credits that favors Big Three

www.investing.com

Tesla would be eligible, just not for the full $12,500. Tesla's would only be able eligible for the current $7,500 credit.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

As for prices, there’s different levels that people can afford. As an example, I don’t think ~$45,000 for a median price for an EV really is all that much money given the potential cost savings and the technology behind the package you’re buying. But it’s all subjective on many factors.

If I apply averages to my country then the costs for EV’s are still way over the affordability scale. The average annual salary here is £26k ($35,960) and the average selling price for a car is £13k ($17,980). This is why I say manufacturers have a serious amount of work to do to make sure EV’s are affordable by 2030. The average family are not going to pay £32k for a new EV and even 7 year old Tesla’s right now are over £20k. I couldn’t get by with some of the tiny EV’s coming out by Nissan, Renault and Peugeot right now as they are impractical.

Over the next 5 years we need a boom in releases and adoption if the 2030 mandate is achievable. I think the government will be forced to move this personally.

 

[44267547]

If I apply averages to my country then the costs for EV’s are still way over the affordability scale. The average annual salary here is £26k ($35,960) and the average selling price for a car is £13k ($17,980). This is why I say manufacturers have a serious amount of work to do to make sure EV’s are affordable by 2030. The average family are not going to pay £32k for a new EV and even 7 year old Tesla’s right now are over £20k. I couldn’t get by with some of the tiny EV’s coming out by Nissan, Renault and Peugeot right now as they are impractical.

Over the next 5 years we need a boom in releases and adoption if the 2030 mandate is achievable. I think the government will be forced to move this personally.

I agree, I would say the average EV right now isn’t really in the realm for the majority of consumers in terms of being affordable. In the United States, President Biden mentioned a few months back, that he is advocating for auto manufacturers to ramp up EV production and have more slated models available by the end of this decade.

I live in a big city, so I see EV’s quite frequently, but in certain parts of North America, they’re not ready for EV’s, because the infrastructure doesn’t support it.

But more than anything, I think more over the price point, I see people still saying to themselves, ‘Why would I need/want an EV’? So their mindset hasn’t even been programmed to start considering an EV, regardless of the lacking infrastructure, being that if you live in California for example, EV’s are virtually everywhere (Also, they have significant tax incentives). So really it’s interesting to see how different it is depending on where you live.