Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[diamond.g]

Not if you're towing a heavy load, at least not that I've seen. Charging is more plentiful than it used to be, but still not anywhere close to ubiquitous where I live (middle of nowhere in the Ozarks).

It is possible, with a 80,000 pound load. Pretty sure you could go farther with less weight. Now is that capability worth 300k (USD) to you?

 

[4sallypat]

The state of EV is currently decades away from being where it needs to be in order to replace gas vehicles. Which makes many of the attempts at forcing the issue through legislation to be very unfortunate and poorly timed and obviously just political nonsense.

1. Range isn't as big of a issue as most people think. Most people do not do enough driving in a day to exceed the range. Range should really be a niche problem.
2. Recharging is a problem, however. It is totally impractical. Not everyone lives in a single family home where they can spend a couple grand to have an electrician put in their own charging station.
3. Recharging on the go is likewise impractical. Charging stations are basically no where, and take took long to charge. Nonstarter experience.
4. The battery technology is a grave concern. It has come a long way, but it is still extremely volatile. At the current volume, it is working OK. But the current technology is not ready to be scaled up to mainstream use. If the world immediately shifted to EV, it would be an environmental nightmare, and a worldwide safety hazard. Gigantic lithium ion batteries will always be dangerous no matter what we do to them, and they are a nightmare to recycle. Like I said, fine the negligible volume that EV ship in today. But it would be a bigger environmental hazard than burning fossil fuels to start using them at scale. And its not like they don't know that. They do. But since the likelihood of EV becoming fully mainstream and the primary type of vehicle on the road any time in the next few decades is nil, they are happy to play this game.

1. 100% agree - range is over hyped due to range anxiety new EV owners have.

2. Yes, some people do not live where you can have a dedicated L2 charger for overnight charging. I filed my IRS taxes and got $300 back for my EVSE installation which reduced the overall cost of the install.

3. Recharging publicly has not been an issue depending on the network. Electrify America has been the worst (down chargers, lack of app updates, crowded). EVGo and Shell ReCharge has been excellent with availability, high output, and no lines.

4. I am happy with my first gen NCM lithium batteries on my standard range F150 Lightning - never an issue charging to 100% at home and 90% at DCFC. I do wish I had the option to get either solid state or iron lithium batteries for faster charging rate. My EV truck charges at a maximum of 170kW and then tapers off.

 

[Kung]

It is possible, with a 80,000 pound load. Pretty sure you could go farther with less weight. Now is that capability worth 300k (USD) to you?

Uh no. LOL! $300K will buy my Tundra, a bunch of gas and one HELL of a lot of carbon offset credits.

 

[diamond.g]

Uh no. LOL! $300K will buy my Tundra, a bunch of gas and one HELL of a lot of carbon offset credits.

Yeah, that was my point, you can get the range but it requires a huge battery (until they can get another power density breakthrough).

 

[Tagbert]

This has to be poor attempt at sarcasm.

Maybe a poor attempt at pedantry

 

[Apple fanboy]

The state of EV is currently decades away from being where it needs to be in order to replace gas vehicles. Which makes many of the attempts at forcing the issue through legislation to be very unfortunate and poorly timed and obviously just political nonsense.

1. Range isn't as big of a issue as most people think. Most people do not do enough driving in a day to exceed the range. Range should really be a niche problem.
2. Recharging is a problem, however. It is totally impractical. Not everyone lives in a single family home where they can spend a couple grand to have an electrician put in their own charging station.
3. Recharging on the go is likewise impractical. Charging stations are basically no where, and take took long to charge. Nonstarter experience.
4. The battery technology is a grave concern. It has come a long way, but it is still extremely volatile. At the current volume, it is working OK. But the current technology is not ready to be scaled up to mainstream use. If the world immediately shifted to EV, it would be an environmental nightmare, and a worldwide safety hazard. Gigantic lithium ion batteries will always be dangerous no matter what we do to them, and they are a nightmare to recycle. Like I said, fine the negligible volume that EV ship in today. But it would be a bigger environmental hazard than burning fossil fuels to start using them at scale. And its not like they don't know that. They do. But since the likelihood of EV becoming fully mainstream and the primary type of vehicle on the road any time in the next few decades is nil, they are happy to play this game.

1. Agree. People blow this out of all proportion.
2. Again agree. If you don’t have a home charger it’s much harder. But then I would never buy a home without a garage and a drive.
3. Depending on where you live. It does sound the US is quite behind Europe. But given the power of oil over there hardly surprising.
4. Recycling can be improved (and needs to be). Petrol of course can’t be recycled. You just have to wait a million years or more for a species to die out.
In the UK EV’s are the fastest growing sector of new cars. In 7 years all new cars will be EV. Can’t come soon enough.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'd largely agree. With #2, I personally can afford it, but that only makes sense for driving back and forth to work. For towing >100 miles, #3 applies.

Regarding #3, the closest public chargers I know of are about 20 miles away; and beyond that, about 50 miles away. Yes, there are absolutely chargers where I'd need them to be with regards to normal trips, but only if I'm along the interstate. There are absolutely NOT chargers available anywhere near where I normally drive or tow things.

Believe me when I say I would LOVE to be able to buy an EV truck for my usage, but I'd have to have 3 things:

1. Much more ubiquitous charging, and not just @ home or along major interstates.
2. A dealership one hell of a lot closer than 120 miles or so.
3. Increased reliability. Having been stranded in the middle of nowhere in the middle of winter before, reliability is #1 for me.

Reliability? I see nothing that suggests EV’s are less reliable than ICE vehicles. Plenty that supports the opposite.

 

[adrianlondon]

Tesla is the largest and most expensive iPad stand on 4 wheels.

Mac Pro wheels kit comes close.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Mac Pro wheels kit comes close.

How many do you think they sold?

 

[JT2002TJ]

It is possible, with a 80,000 pound load. Pretty sure you could go farther with less weight. Now is that capability worth 300k (USD) to you?

It isn't realistic to replace the average work truck. Remember, an Semi is not allowed on local roads (weight). The current Hummer EV at 9k lbs surpasses the weight limit of many local roads especially if you hook up a 2k+ lbs trailer and a 4k-5k vehicle on it. This would put the GVW in the commercial territory. The average person cannot afford all the fees that go along with commercial costs.

It simply weights too much and cant go far enough to actually be able to replace a 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup truck for those that actually use them.

I can't wait until there is a solution, I am all about EVs now. My Tesla makes me not want to go back to ICE unless I have to.

 

[diamond.g]

It isn't realistic to replace the average work truck. Remember, an Semi is not allowed on local roads (weight). The current Hummer EV at 9k lbs surpasses the weight limit of many local roads especially if you hook up a 2k+ lbs trailer and a 4k-5k vehicle on it. This would put the GVW in the commercial territory. The average person cannot afford all the fees that go along with commercial costs.

It simply weights too much and cant go far enough to actually be able to replace a 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup truck for those that actually use them.

I can't wait until there is a solution, I am all about EVs now. My Tesla makes me not want to go back to ICE unless I have to.

The Hummer EV battery weights as much as a Civic all by itself, so there is that. Plus even 200kWh isn't enough to be able to tow over 300 miles non stop.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The key to EV’s is smaller lighter vehicles. For 90% of journeys people don’t need as much as they think they do.

 

[PauloSera]

If you don’t have a home charger it’s much harder. But then I would never buy a home without a garage and a drive.

Ok, neither would I, but that does nothing for the sheer number of people living in apartments and townhomes, etc. I know how much EV snobs love to ignore this and think that these riff raff should just get a house already.

Depending on where you live. It does sound the US is quite behind Europe. But given the power of oil over there hardly surprising.

No. Europe is a fraction of the size of the United States, and this is also a chicken/egg problem. Money is not going to spent on building out charging infrastructure all over the country for cars that don't exist.

Recycling can be improved (and needs to be).

Good grief. This is like the Jurassic Park mentality. Oh we can fix that unsolvable mega problem as time goes on. No, you can't. You can't magically make these batteries suddenly more recyclable or not a massive environmental hazard if they were ever used at scale.

7 years all new cars will be EV. Can’t come soon enough.

Absolutely positively not going to happen. Not a chance. This is peak delusion.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The key to EV’s is smaller lighter vehicles. For 90% of journeys people don’t need as much as they think they do.

Doesn’t really work for a family of 4+ though. This is one of my concerns for the future and especially for people who spend a lot of weekends away throughout the year. I couldn’t manage with something the size of a Fiesta for instance.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Ok, neither would I, but that does nothing for the sheer number of people living in apartments and townhomes, etc. I know how much EV snobs love to ignore this and think that these riff raff should just get a house already.

Let's be real, they wouldn't buy new cars of these prices anyway. And by the time the second hand market is flooded the infrastructure is there. Government policy needs to be in place that developments include chargers, they do that in the rest of the world. Not sure about the USA.

No. Europe is a fraction of the size of the United States, and this is also a chicken/egg problem. Money is not going to spent on building out charging infrastructure all over the country for cars that don't exist.

Oh gosh not that again; wrong Europe is not a fraction of the size of the United States. It is actually larger More densely populated as well in some areas, and less so in others. But it is not a fraction of the size of the USA. Sure you've got states that are larger than whole countries, but as a whole the USA is smaller.

Good grief. This is like the Jurassic Park mentality. Oh we can fix that unsolvable mega problem as time goes on. No, you can't. You can't magically make these batteries suddenly more recyclable or not a massive environmental hazard if they were ever used at scale.


Absolutely positively not going to happen. Not a chance. This is peak delusion.

It is, laws are in place, sales of new ICE vehicles are being banned.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Ok, neither would I, but that does nothing for the sheer number of people living in apartments and townhomes, etc. I know how much EV snobs love to ignore this and think that these riff raff should just get a house already.


No. Europe is a fraction of the size of the United States, and this is also a chicken/egg problem. Money is not going to spent on building out charging infrastructure all over the country for cars that don't exist.


Good grief. This is like the Jurassic Park mentality. Oh we can fix that unsolvable mega problem as time goes on. No, you can't. You can't magically make these batteries suddenly more recyclable or not a massive environmental hazard if they were ever used at scale.


Absolutely positively not going to happen. Not a chance. This is peak delusion.

Size of Europe verses the US has been discussed to death in this thread. The reason many states have such poor charging isn't to do with size but the legislation banning it!
EV batteries are not perfect. But burning oil is much, much worse. You can recycle batteries and that technology is being developed all the time.
In the UK I think it will. Not in the US, but you'll catch up eventually.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Doesn’t really work for a family of 4+ though. This is one of my concerns for the future and especially for people who spend a lot of weekends away throughout the year. I couldn’t manage with something the size of a Fiesta for instance.

Larger cars don't have top be made as heavy as they are though. Yes its easy for me as 95% of my journey's are for 1 person. But there are lots of options out there with more everyday.

 

[Kung]

Reliability? I see nothing that suggests EV’s are less reliable than ICE vehicles. Plenty that supports the opposite.

I'm speaking with respect to my chosen truck manufacturer (Toyota).

 

[Kung]

2. Again agree. If you don’t have a home charger it’s much harder. But then I would never buy a home without a garage and a drive.
3. Depending on where you live. It does sound the US is quite behind Europe. But given the power of oil over there hardly surprising.

Regarding #2, I bought the most affordable home I could back in 2008, based on my income at the time; it had no garage. I personally can afford more, but I'd rather put that money towards my mortgage.

Regarding #3, I live in the middle of nowhere (figuratively) in the Ozarks. It's >60 miles from Jefferson City, MO; and >120 miles from STL and Kansas City. The only Superchargers around here are 20-30 miles away along the interstate; and most of the driving I do is nowhere near those.

I'm not saying there's NO case to be made for EVs where I live; but I AM indeed saying that the infrastructure for charging them is far more ubiquitous in other areas nowhere near where I live. LOL

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'm speaking with respect to my chosen truck manufacturer (Toyota).

Well Toyota's are legendary for that. But generally ICE cars have more moving parts so more things to fail.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Regarding #2, I bought the most affordable home I could back in 2008, based on my income at the time; it had no garage. I personally can afford more, but I'd rather put that money towards my mortgage.

Regarding #3, I live in the middle of nowhere (figuratively) in the Ozarks. It's >60 miles from Jefferson City, MO; and >120 miles from STL and Kansas City. The only Superchargers around here are 20-30 miles away along the interstate; and most of the driving I do is nowhere near those.

I'm not saying there's NO case to be made for EVs where I live; but I AM indeed saying that the infrastructure for charging them is far more ubiquitous in other areas nowhere near where I live. LOL

I don't really know where that is, but there will always be places that are more isolated. But this shouldn't stop those who don't live in that sort of place.

 

[burgman]

Not remotely. Sad for you that you don't understand it.

Oh I understood it, the dismissal of 7 or 8 billion people to concentrate on glowing rocks and call it good. Then the predicable snarky looking down the nose reply.🤔

 

[burgman]

The key to EV’s is smaller lighter vehicles. For 90% of journeys people don’t need as much as they think they do.

Exactly many comments concentrate on use cases were EV's aren't the best tool. I agree, they aren't but they sure can replace 100's of millions of cars. It's like the gas and diesel addiction is as hard to break as drugs. The oil companies are called cartels for a reason. The Middle East owns the world because of this addiction, They are buying up refineries all over to completely control product and manipulate pricing. Governments and corporations take their cash and look the other way. Worse corporations fund dark political money to legislatures and political groups to keep the addiction alive.
Then there is the complete disregard for future generations and their quality of life because we are burning nonrenewables as fast as we can to haul our oversize behinds around. <- US centric comment 🤭
It took about 100 years to create the gasoline addiction and for companies to perfect the art of the deal. Most estimates say we don't have that long to perfect the EV's universe.
Watching YouTube EV videos about charging times and broken chargers shows how far we have to go. True believers have a higher pain point than the majority. That will kill the industry and lose buyers for a long time.

 

[millerj123]

Oh I understood it, the dismissal of 7 or 8 billion people to concentrate on glowing rocks and call it good. Then the predicable snarky looking down the nose reply.🤔

It is unclear what you are railing against.

I was interested in a used Nissan Leaf. I test drove it but had to pass. My issue is that I drive just shy of 50 miles per day, and this particular car was at 95% but only 41 miles remaining on the charge. That would not be usable for me. The ones past 2018 should have a few days charge for my drive.

 

[Kung]

I don't really know where that is, but there will always be places that are more isolated. But this shouldn't stop those who don't live in that sort of place.

Agreed 100%, and I sure hope nothing I said lent itself to that viewpoint. If I didn't live in the middle of nowhere I'd likely own one myself.