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Who's got a nice watch? Traditional watches only, no smartwatches please.
- Thread starter JW8725
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Thank you! My favorite must be my vintage Omega Seamaster 300 big triangle model. Found a beautiful example finally after searching for years. It was sold as parts, because "it runs for a few seconds when I pick it up, but the crown doesn't turn."
I'll let you gentlemen figure out what that meant!
Cheers
Chris
It's hard to wind it if you don't unscrew the crown
You are correct. It had never been opened, and actually arrived to me in a velcro strap that had a flap that covered the entire watch, so, the condition of the dial/handset is excellent. I really got lucky with that.
I have a number of watches from before I had kids: vintage Rolex Seadweller 16660 with matte dial, vintage Omega Flightmaster c911, reissue Omega PloProf, Doxa GMT sub, Seiko MarineMaster (can't remember the model-not the tuna can one), and a few others.
Now, with kids, I rarely buy a watch, and if I do, I sell one. Different priorities
Ok, thought you might enjoy this interview and the watches.
http://jalopnik.com/watch-icon-s-jonathan-ward-nerd-out-with-his-absurd-wat-1718031618
http://jalopnik.com/watch-icon-s-jonathan-ward-nerd-out-with-his-absurd-wat-1718031618
This will be my 40th Birthday present to myself with the green silicone strap. It was going to be this years but then we bought a pair of horses so that money went away.
My Rolex has been running a pretty consistent 5-6s/day slow, and I was unhappy with that. As per my timing machine, there was virtually no positional error and it also registered no beat error.
Rolexes since the 1500 series movement(mine is a 3035) have been freesprung, meaning that there is no regulator arm to effectively shorten and lengthen the hairspring as on virtually all other mass-market movements on ETA in the like. The lack of a regulator give better positional error(gravity has a huge effect on how the hairspring interacts with the regulator curb pins) but makes the timing more difficult to adjust. The 3035/3135 also have Breguet overcoil hairspring, which allows the hairspring to breath more concentrically(again, lower positional variation and less isochronal error) but is more difficult to form and get exactly right.
The only practical way to adjust timing on a freesprung watch is to change either the weight or the moment of inertia of the balance. Rolex uses a set of four "microstella" screws on the inside of the balance rim to change the timing. Moving the screws toward the center of the balance(loosening them) speeds the watch up, while bringing them out toward the rim slows the balance down. These are turned with a special wrench which has a pointer indicator in it to indicate the amount of timing change. There are four microstella screws, two of which are larger and thus have a great affect on the rate than the smaller ones. Screws opposite each other must also be adjusted the same amount, as doing otherwise would affect the poise and introduce positional error.
I don't have a Microstella wrench and wasn't overly inclined to buy one, so on a whim yesterday I stopped in a local repair shop. I chatted a bit and mentioned the lack of positional error but the slow running, then also gave the watchmaker some leads on sources I use for old American pocket watches. He put my watch on the timing machine and showed me that the rate and positional error were in line with what I'd found, but he was also showing greater beat error than my machine showed(my machine prints on a paper tape and his was electronic, so it's possible to zoom in more to see things like this).
In any case, while I stood there, he unscrewed the back, tweaked the hairspring overcoil(all on the timing machine) and adjusted the Microstella screws. When he was done, he showed me the timing machine trace-it rated near perfect(as close as you can reasonably get it), had virtually no beat error, and just overall looked virtually perfect.
Best of all-I think probably in exchange for the list of contacts I gave him-he did it all at no charge! I expect he appreciated the break in monotony of changing batteries all day, as well as the fact that I actually understood what he was showing me on the timing machine and heaped on the praise for his work.
24h later, and it's +1s from where it was when I set it. I certainly can't complain about that!
Rolexes since the 1500 series movement(mine is a 3035) have been freesprung, meaning that there is no regulator arm to effectively shorten and lengthen the hairspring as on virtually all other mass-market movements on ETA in the like. The lack of a regulator give better positional error(gravity has a huge effect on how the hairspring interacts with the regulator curb pins) but makes the timing more difficult to adjust. The 3035/3135 also have Breguet overcoil hairspring, which allows the hairspring to breath more concentrically(again, lower positional variation and less isochronal error) but is more difficult to form and get exactly right.
The only practical way to adjust timing on a freesprung watch is to change either the weight or the moment of inertia of the balance. Rolex uses a set of four "microstella" screws on the inside of the balance rim to change the timing. Moving the screws toward the center of the balance(loosening them) speeds the watch up, while bringing them out toward the rim slows the balance down. These are turned with a special wrench which has a pointer indicator in it to indicate the amount of timing change. There are four microstella screws, two of which are larger and thus have a great affect on the rate than the smaller ones. Screws opposite each other must also be adjusted the same amount, as doing otherwise would affect the poise and introduce positional error.
I don't have a Microstella wrench and wasn't overly inclined to buy one, so on a whim yesterday I stopped in a local repair shop. I chatted a bit and mentioned the lack of positional error but the slow running, then also gave the watchmaker some leads on sources I use for old American pocket watches. He put my watch on the timing machine and showed me that the rate and positional error were in line with what I'd found, but he was also showing greater beat error than my machine showed(my machine prints on a paper tape and his was electronic, so it's possible to zoom in more to see things like this).
In any case, while I stood there, he unscrewed the back, tweaked the hairspring overcoil(all on the timing machine) and adjusted the Microstella screws. When he was done, he showed me the timing machine trace-it rated near perfect(as close as you can reasonably get it), had virtually no beat error, and just overall looked virtually perfect.
Best of all-I think probably in exchange for the list of contacts I gave him-he did it all at no charge! I expect he appreciated the break in monotony of changing batteries all day, as well as the fact that I actually understood what he was showing me on the timing machine and heaped on the praise for his work.
24h later, and it's +1s from where it was when I set it. I certainly can't complain about that!
Very interesting post, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it; a veritable mine of information.
I have a Rolex with a 3035 as well. It's a great movement, only made for a few years before they switched to the 3135 (I believe).
Only difference I think is the balance bridge on the later one.
Only difference I think is the balance bridge on the later one.
I think that my +1s I reported earlier on the Rolex might have been either a result of me setting it incorrectly or the watch "settling" in after being messed with. When I clean a watch, I rarely even put it on the timing machine for 24h as they tend to look TERRIBLE right after cleaning. A day or two of running to let lubricants spread and let the balance slow down to a consistent amplitude will make a world of difference.
I'm not an expert on Rolex history, but I think that the 3035 actually had a decently long life. It was used through the 70s and 80s, and then up a little bit into the 90s if I'm not mistaken.
The 3135 corrects some deficiencies and known wear points in the 3035, but overall it's more of an evolution rather than a revolution. The balance bridge vs. cock(and the accompanying nuts to change the endshake) is probably the most significant improvement. It beats the heck out of shimming, which is what many old time watchmakers(and new time watchmakers working on old watches) do to increase the endshake on a balance wheel. It just goes to show that a good design is a good design-the 3035 is a solid movement, and I think the number of them still in service is a testament to this.
I'm not an expert on Rolex history, but I think that the 3035 actually had a decently long life. It was used through the 70s and 80s, and then up a little bit into the 90s if I'm not mistaken.
The 3135 corrects some deficiencies and known wear points in the 3035, but overall it's more of an evolution rather than a revolution. The balance bridge vs. cock(and the accompanying nuts to change the endshake) is probably the most significant improvement. It beats the heck out of shimming, which is what many old time watchmakers(and new time watchmakers working on old watches) do to increase the endshake on a balance wheel. It just goes to show that a good design is a good design-the 3035 is a solid movement, and I think the number of them still in service is a testament to this.
This is an interesting point-do you believe that brand new watches have a bit of a "run-in" phase, and it's best to let them be for a few days/weeks before you alter anything?
My personal experience has been that new watches tend to run faster than they will with a bit of time, and I often do not regulate until a few weeks timeframe.
Again, these are anecdotal/informal observations. I am not a watchmaker, but do know how to clean/service a 2824, for example.
Agree completely about how "a good design is a good design" and that good designs will stand the test of time - quite often, in terms of both form and function.
I've been rocking an SAK347 for about 4 years now...I'm a pretty basic dude, it seems to go well with casual, athletic and professional attire. An inexpensive jack of all trades.
You are correct. It had never been opened, and actually arrived to me in a velcro strap that had a flap that covered the entire watch, so, the condition of the dial/handset is excellent. I really got lucky with that.
I have a number of watches from before I had kids: vintage Rolex Seadweller 16660 with matte dial, vintage Omega Flightmaster c911, reissue Omega PloProf, Doxa GMT sub, Seiko MarineMaster (can't remember the model-not the tuna can one), and a few others.
Now, with kids, I rarely buy a watch, and if I do, I sell one. Different priorities
*drool*
I'll tell you my secret for vintage Omegas...
I used to buy them in poor condition on eBay for a very reasonable price. I would then send them to Omega in Bienne, and have a restoration done. For example, the Flightmaster was under 400$ in the condition I found it, with original bracelet. It ran, but one crown came out easily, and one pusher did not work.
Sent to Omega in Bienna, full restoration done for around 1100$. Total outlay for a (nearly) mint vintage Omega Flightmaster right around 1500$.
Now, the prices are rising steadily, and the deals are harder to come by, but you can still find them if you are patient, and willing to be VERY patient with Omega Bienne for restoration. This one took almost a year, then had to go back for work on the GMT crown. Took another couple of months. Now, I've had the watch for about 5-6 years, without any problems, and it looks as good as the day it was originally made.
Now, don't go telling everyone my secret!
Well, I must admit that I like your secret (and thanks for sharing) but, I must also admit, that I would never buy a watch, or anything of the sort, on eBay; there are too many fakes, and my life is to short for those sort of……..complications.
However, I don't doubt that for those prepared to do their homework, who are prepared to put thought into planning such purchases, and spend a lot of time on matters such as research and risk, the rewards can be considerable.
However, for now, if I want a vintage Omega or Rolex, I will content myself with browsing on reputable watch sites.
Notwithstanding the above, should you wish to post a picture of this watch, I'll happily admire it.
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The picture is a few posts up
I agree-this procedure is not without risk, but there are nice rewards to be had.
There are TONS of fakes on eBay, and elsewhere, so you need to do your homework, and ask questions. As I mentioned, the deals are now fewer, and further between, but still out there.
I think watches in general are a slippery slope, and I try to avoid watch forums these days...
I do think that there is some validity to being "run in."
In fact-back in the day-when a watch was serviced the watchmaker would often instruct the customer to wind/wear the watch normally but not set it then bring it back in a week later for regulation.
As I mentioned, a freshly serviced watch needs time for the lubricants to distribute appropriately-this is especially true of the pallet fork/escape wheel lubrication. I always put a tiny drop of Moebius 941 on the ends of the pallet stones. Incidentally, there is some debate about the use of Moebius 941 vs. 9415 in this applications-I use 941 because I feel that it's better suited to the large, slow beat pocket watches I generally service, although 9415 is preferred on modern high-beat wristwatch movements due to its better "stay put" qualities. In any case, I find it can take a couple of hours for the escapement to properly distribute the oil to provide for a consistent impulse. A freshly serviced watch will often give evidence of a "dragging" pallet on the timing machine as well as give somewhat of a sinusoidal rate. Both of these will generally go away after several hours of running.
Even a watch that has been stopped for a few days or longer can take a little while to "settle" into a consistent rate. The act of moving the regulator can cause the same thing.
There's also the issue that virtually all watches do at least have some positional error as well as some isochrononal error. There's even residual temperature error that's very difficult to iron out even with modern materials that have little elastic variation(hairsprings) and virtually non-existent coefficient of thermal expansion(for balance wheels). Daniels devotes a full chapter to it in Watchmaking. One of the earliest mechanical movements to virtually eliminate temperature error was the Hamilton Model 21 chronometer, which used an "ovalizing" balance(stainless steel arms with a Invar rim) in combination with an Elinvar Extra hairspring(elinvar=elastically invariable). If your watch wearing habits are consistent, you can regulate the watch to your habits so that it will at least give a consistent rate over time even if at a given point during the day it might be a second or two off.
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Got my new second gen Seiko Monster yesterday. I love this watch
The picture is a few posts up
I agree-this procedure is not without risk, but there are nice rewards to be had.
There are TONS of fakes on eBay, and elsewhere, so you need to do your homework, and ask questions. As I mentioned, the deals are now fewer, and further between, but still out there.
I think watches in general are a slippery slope, and I try to avoid watch forums these days...
Oh, I agree that they are a slippery slope; thankfully, what I really like falls within an exceedingly narrow parameter, which means that there are not many watches that would ever really tempt me.
Re eBay, I really dislike this extensive market in fakes, and equally, dislike the risk and uncertainty element of such purchases; yes, there are huge rewards, but also, considerable risks. As a buyer, I dislike risk, and, as a consequence, I much prefer the reassurance and certainty of knowing that I am buying from a reputable source and have a legal comeback if something goes wrong.
It is a wonderful watch, I don't know why but I have missed it. It has even day/date. I think I will buy one.
