Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,496
Kentucky
Unfortunately, the nickel movement pictured above is going back to the seller. While playing with lighting and trying to photograph to really show off the "quilted" pattern, I happened to notice that the balance wheel had brass screws rather than the expected gold and the balance arms had an atypical finish for the grade. A quick check showed that the serial number on the balance wheel did not match the one on the movement.

Fortunately, the seller-a friend-is a long-time collector and very graciously agreed to accept return. He also apologized profusely for not catching the problem.

In the meantime, though, here it is with the balance wheel removed. Despite it being the incorrect wheel, the roller table(likely original, along with the hairspring, judging by the number of timing washers) has Woerd's Patent square roller jewel along with the corresponding pallet fork horns.

IMG_0062.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe

ProjectManager101

Suspended
Jul 12, 2015
458
722
I really like the Fossil watch model you're sporting. It looks great.
How did you know it was a Fossil? I like big watches. I used to have a Seiko similar to the R2399JX9 that I loved but I lost it. When you give a watch it means "I like the time I spend with you".
 

Attachments

  • Fossil.png
    Fossil.png
    701.4 KB · Views: 386
  • Like
Reactions: mtasquared

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
Unfortunately, the nickel movement pictured above is going back to the seller. While playing with lighting and trying to photograph to really show off the "quilted" pattern, I happened to notice that the balance wheel had brass screws rather than the expected gold and the balance arms had an atypical finish for the grade. A quick check showed that the serial number on the balance wheel did not match the one on the movement.

Fortunately, the seller-a friend-is a long-time collector and very graciously agreed to accept return. He also apologized profusely for not catching the problem.

In the meantime, though, here it is with the balance wheel removed. Despite it being the incorrect wheel, the roller table(likely original, along with the hairspring, judging by the number of timing washers) has Woerd's Patent square roller jewel along with the corresponding pallet fork horns.

View attachment 572821

So, the serial number on the balance wheel did not match that of the moment? Hm. How that that come about?

Well spotted, and unfortunate that you have had to return it.

Interesting story, and it pays to subject such purchases to close scrutiny.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,496
Kentucky
So, the serial number on the balance wheel did not match that of the moment? Hm. How that that come about?

Well spotted, and unfortunate that you have had to return it.

Interesting story, and it pays to subject such purchases to close scrutiny.

Most likely, someone at some point in the past got lazy and took a balance wheel out of a parts movement to replace a broken staff rather actually replacing the staff. Or, there's also the possibility that the original wheel was damaged and, again, the part taken from a lower grade parts movement. The hairspring stud is unique to the Am'n grade and the pinning looks factory, so most likely they transplanted the hairspring from the original wheel.

This particular seller never provides pictures, and instead sells everything "on memo." Since I hadn't paid for it yet, it was no big deal to return it. The seller was very apologetic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe

determined09

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2009
1,454
312
What does anyone think about Gucci's Swiss Made Automatic watches that they are selling now? Thank you
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,496
Kentucky
In terms of watches which is better quartz or automatic? Thank you

Now you've opened a real can of worms :)

I'd really say that it comes down to a personal decision about your level of interest in watches.

Quartz watches are quite accurate and honestly are a set-and-forget deal. A quartz watch will need a new battery every few years, and ones designed for water resistance will also likely need some other minor maintenance at the same time. Low end quartz watches will generally die a slow death over 10-15 years. Better quartz movements tend to be in better cases and can be serviced and repaired just like a mechanical watch.

There are some quartz movements that, IMO, are works of art. The Rolex 5035 in the Oysterquartz(which has its own set of issues) is in that category, IMO. In general, though, a lot of quartz movements are boring.

It difficult to get a mechanical watch(whether hand wound or automatic) to keep time in absolute terms as well as a quartz watch. After a little bit of tweaking by a local watchmaker, the Rolex 3035 in my daily wear watch gains 10-15s a month, although it varies somewhat day to day in how much it loses or gains(depending-I've noticed-on how its worn. It does better on days where I'm more active).

There's also the whole aspect of them just needing more "fiddling." A hand-wound watch will need to be wound every day(honestly not a big deal, when I wear one I just get into the habit of winding it when I put it on in the morning). Unless you put it on a winder, an automatic will run down in 2-3 days(usually) of not being worn and you'll have to spend time setting the time as well as the day/date(if equipped) if you let it run down. I gave my dad an inexpensive(relatively) Seiko 5 Mechanical a few years ago, and he had issues keeping it wound because he would only wear the watch when leaving the house and often only left for a couple of hours at a time once or twice a day(these watches have no provision for manual winding, although the automatic mechanism is fairly efficient).

For someone who thrives on how watches work like me, there is no other option but a mechanic watch in some form. I'll also mention that there are collectors who have as much interest in quartz watches as I do mechanical, and would consider nothing but a high-end quartz watch.

For someone who just wants an accurate watch to wear and not really worry about, a quartz is a good choice. Many brands(including Tag and Seiko, off the top of my head) make similarly styled watches with both movement types.

There are also some modern "hybrids." Kinetic watches use an oscillating weight(like a mechanical) to keep a capacitor charged while wearing. These give all the accuracy of a quartz watch with little concern with running down a battery provided that the watch is worn semi-regularly. I don't know a whole lot about these, but think that the "winding" system is fairly efficient and the capacitors large enough that they will generally run for a couple of weeks without being worn.

More recently, you have a the Seiko Spring Drive which is basically a mechanical movement that uses a "braking wheel" combined with a quartz oscillator to regulate the timekeeping. An oscillating weight keeps the mainspring wound and supplies power to the quartz oscillator. These are as accurate as a quartz watch but also have a(truly) continuously moving second hand-a feature many people like in mechanical watches(although the second hand in mechanical movements isn't actually continuously moving-it just moves several times a second-usually 5-8).

To muddy things even further, there are also some "obsolete" electric watch technologies. There are balance wheel electric watches(Hamilton 500 series, probably most noteably) which are sort of a mechanical watch that uses a battery for power instead of a mainspring. These have many of the same "quirks" of mechanicals-including timekeeping ability-but without the reliability :) . As I said, the Hamilton "electrics" are probably best known, although there are very few folks who even know how to service one(the "go to" guy-Rene Rondeau-just retired a few months ago).

The other notable ones are tuning-fork electric watches. Bulova Accutrons(old ones) are best known, although Omega and a few others made them. These uses a metal tuning fork that vibrates at a consistent frequency as their time base, and use a battery to power everything. These tend to be nearly as accurate as quartz, and also have a(perceptibly) continuously moving second hand.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
Now you've opened a real can of worms :)

I'd really say that it comes down to a personal decision about your level of interest in watches.

Quartz watches are quite accurate and honestly are a set-and-forget deal. A quartz watch will need a new battery every few years, and ones designed for water resistance will also likely need some other minor maintenance at the same time. Low end quartz watches will generally die a slow death over 10-15 years. Better quartz movements tend to be in better cases and can be serviced and repaired just like a mechanical watch.

There are some quartz movements that, IMO, are works of art. The Rolex 5035 in the Oysterquartz(which has its own set of issues) is in that category, IMO. In general, though, a lot of quartz movements are boring.

It difficult to get a mechanical watch(whether hand wound or automatic) to keep time in absolute terms as well as a quartz watch. After a little bit of tweaking by a local watchmaker, the Rolex 3035 in my daily wear watch gains 10-15s a month, although it varies somewhat day to day in how much it loses or gains(depending-I've noticed-on how its worn. It does better on days where I'm more active).

There's also the whole aspect of them just needing more "fiddling." A hand-wound watch will need to be wound every day(honestly not a big deal, when I wear one I just get into the habit of winding it when I put it on in the morning). Unless you put it on a winder, an automatic will run down in 2-3 days(usually) of not being worn and you'll have to spend time setting the time as well as the day/date(if equipped) if you let it run down. I gave my dad an inexpensive(relatively) Seiko 5 Mechanical a few years ago, and he had issues keeping it wound because he would only wear the watch when leaving the house and often only left for a couple of hours at a time once or twice a day(these watches have no provision for manual winding, although the automatic mechanism is fairly efficient).

For someone who thrives on how watches work like me, there is no other option but a mechanic watch in some form. I'll also mention that there are collectors who have as much interest in quartz watches as I do mechanical, and would consider nothing but a high-end quartz watch.

For someone who just wants an accurate watch to wear and not really worry about, a quartz is a good choice. Many brands(including Tag and Seiko, off the top of my head) make similarly styled watches with both movement types.

There are also some modern "hybrids." Kinetic watches use an oscillating weight(like a mechanical) to keep a capacitor charged while wearing. These give all the accuracy of a quartz watch with little concern with running down a battery provided that the watch is worn semi-regularly. I don't know a whole lot about these, but think that the "winding" system is fairly efficient and the capacitors large enough that they will generally run for a couple of weeks without being worn.

More recently, you have a the Seiko Spring Drive which is basically a mechanical movement that uses a "braking wheel" combined with a quartz oscillator to regulate the timekeeping. An oscillating weight keeps the mainspring wound and supplies power to the quartz oscillator. These are as accurate as a quartz watch but also have a(truly) continuously moving second hand-a feature many people like in mechanical watches(although the second hand in mechanical movements isn't actually continuously moving-it just moves several times a second-usually 5-8).

To muddy things even further, there are also some "obsolete" electric watch technologies. There are balance wheel electric watches(Hamilton 500 series, probably most noteably) which are sort of a mechanical watch that uses a battery for power instead of a mainspring. These have many of the same "quirks" of mechanicals-including timekeeping ability-but without the reliability :) . As I said, the Hamilton "electrics" are probably best known, although there are very few folks who even know how to service one(the "go to" guy-Rene Rondeau-just retired a few months ago).

The other notable ones are tuning-fork electric watches. Bulova Accutrons(old ones) are best known, although Omega and a few others made them. These uses a metal tuning fork that vibrates at a consistent frequency as their time base, and use a battery to power everything. These tend to be nearly as accurate as quartz, and also have a(perceptibly) continuously moving second hand.

As always, a beautifully written, interesting and very informative post. And winningly non-judgmental, too, on a topic where judgement can be all too swiftly handed down.

A good quality and well made quartz watch is very reliable, and batteries are pretty easily replaced. (It has happened to me on a few occasions, that watch batteries and camera batteries died a death while abroad in strange places, but these are usually easy enough to replace).

In the past, I had manual watches (gifts from my parents, old watches which they had had), and someday, will treat myself to a good quality automatic. For now, I have a classic looking Omega Deville, with dauphine hands, a date, and Arabic numerals on the 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12, and it runs beautifully and perfectly on a quartz battery that I have to change every few years. Unless I am abroad, I tend to get it serviced when I have to have the battery replaced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: determined09

determined09

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2009
1,454
312
Now you've opened a real can of worms :)

I'd really say that it comes down to a personal decision about your level of interest in watches.

Quartz watches are quite accurate and honestly are a set-and-forget deal. A quartz watch will need a new battery every few years, and ones designed for water resistance will also likely need some other minor maintenance at the same time. Low end quartz watches will generally die a slow death over 10-15 years. Better quartz movements tend to be in better cases and can be serviced and repaired just like a mechanical watch.

There are some quartz movements that, IMO, are works of art. The Rolex 5035 in the Oysterquartz(which has its own set of issues) is in that category, IMO. In general, though, a lot of quartz movements are boring.

It difficult to get a mechanical watch(whether hand wound or automatic) to keep time in absolute terms as well as a quartz watch. After a little bit of tweaking by a local watchmaker, the Rolex 3035 in my daily wear watch gains 10-15s a month, although it varies somewhat day to day in how much it loses or gains(depending-I've noticed-on how its worn. It does better on days where I'm more active).

There's also the whole aspect of them just needing more "fiddling." A hand-wound watch will need to be wound every day(honestly not a big deal, when I wear one I just get into the habit of winding it when I put it on in the morning). Unless you put it on a winder, an automatic will run down in 2-3 days(usually) of not being worn and you'll have to spend time setting the time as well as the day/date(if equipped) if you let it run down. I gave my dad an inexpensive(relatively) Seiko 5 Mechanical a few years ago, and he had issues keeping it wound because he would only wear the watch when leaving the house and often only left for a couple of hours at a time once or twice a day(these watches have no provision for manual winding, although the automatic mechanism is fairly efficient).

For someone who thrives on how watches work like me, there is no other option but a mechanic watch in some form. I'll also mention that there are collectors who have as much interest in quartz watches as I do mechanical, and would consider nothing but a high-end quartz watch.

For someone who just wants an accurate watch to wear and not really worry about, a quartz is a good choice. Many brands(including Tag and Seiko, off the top of my head) make similarly styled watches with both movement types.

There are also some modern "hybrids." Kinetic watches use an oscillating weight(like a mechanical) to keep a capacitor charged while wearing. These give all the accuracy of a quartz watch with little concern with running down a battery provided that the watch is worn semi-regularly. I don't know a whole lot about these, but think that the "winding" system is fairly efficient and the capacitors large enough that they will generally run for a couple of weeks without being worn.

More recently, you have a the Seiko Spring Drive which is basically a mechanical movement that uses a "braking wheel" combined with a quartz oscillator to regulate the timekeeping. An oscillating weight keeps the mainspring wound and supplies power to the quartz oscillator. These are as accurate as a quartz watch but also have a(truly) continuously moving second hand-a feature many people like in mechanical watches(although the second hand in mechanical movements isn't actually continuously moving-it just moves several times a second-usually 5-8).

To muddy things even further, there are also some "obsolete" electric watch technologies. There are balance wheel electric watches(Hamilton 500 series, probably most noteably) which are sort of a mechanical watch that uses a battery for power instead of a mainspring. These have many of the same "quirks" of mechanicals-including timekeeping ability-but without the reliability :) . As I said, the Hamilton "electrics" are probably best known, although there are very few folks who even know how to service one(the "go to" guy-Rene Rondeau-just retired a few months ago).

The other notable ones are tuning-fork electric watches. Bulova Accutrons(old ones) are best known, although Omega and a few others made them. These uses a metal tuning fork that vibrates at a consistent frequency as their time base, and use a battery to power everything. These tend to be nearly as accurate as quartz, and also have a(perceptibly) continuously moving second hand.

Thank you so much for your nice and very informative post. It was very interesting.
 

davidmcg1975

macrumors newbie
Aug 22, 2013
1
1
Omega Seamaster 300M. Was considering various watches at the time...Rolex Submariner etc..but I liked the Seamaster as it's quite understated and not a "hey, look at my expensive *bling* watch" kinda watch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,317
25,467
Wales, United Kingdom
I am thinking of investing in a dress watch and have been thinking of the Seiko SARB033. I like the understated look that isn't flash but gives the presence of a nicely made watch.
3736c0cd1bb1680e5c230822f5aba08e.jpg

(Not my pic)
It seems to look nice on its bracelet and most leather straps I have seen it on. Has anybody here got one or seen one first hand that can share their thoughts? They are only officially sold in Japan as its in Seiko's domestic range. I can get it for around £250 but would consider other dress watches in its price range. :)
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,496
Kentucky
I've not seen one "in the flesh."

It's a great looking watch and is very tasteful. Honestly, you can't go wrong with a Seiko.

With that said, it looks a bit "chunky" to me for a true dress watch, although admittedly this is sometimes hard to judge in a photo. In particular, it looks fairly thick, which I suspect is a consequence of it being an automatic.
 

AppleDApp

macrumors 68020
Jun 21, 2011
2,413
45
Here are my thoughts on my new Citizen Eco Drive, a gift. This watch is photoelectric powered. Not really a traditional watch, not sure if it belongs in this thread, but I like it almost as much as my Rolex submariner. It shares the same quality of being perpetual: it could theoretically work forever. Only the battery likely needs to be replaced after a certain number of recharges. The submariner is not dissimilar, as the mainspring is replaced at each service. At the same time this watch is radio synced to an atomic clock. I don't see how this is not equal or superior to a Rolex in these qualities. Further, it is water resistant to 20 bar. I think the only place the submariner is superior is that I can dive deeper than 600 feet (lol) and it would still work after 6 months in a lightless mineshaft (the length of time the Eco Drive can go on a full charge without light). Cheers.
14y66ft.jpg

Are all Citizen eco-drive watches atomic synched?

View attachment 571816
Heres my two! Sorry for the poor quality. Took it in a hurry.
What does the LCD on the winder display?
 

determined09

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2009
1,454
312
Here are my thoughts on my new Citizen Eco Drive, a gift. This watch is photoelectric powered. Not really a traditional watch, not sure if it belongs in this thread, but I like it almost as much as my Rolex submariner. It shares the same quality of being perpetual: it could theoretically work forever. Only the battery likely needs to be replaced after a certain number of recharges. The submariner is not dissimilar, as the mainspring is replaced at each service. At the same time this watch is radio synced to an atomic clock. I don't see how this is not equal or superior to a Rolex in these qualities. Further, it is water resistant to 20 bar. I think the only place the submariner is superior is that I can dive deeper than 600 feet (lol) and it would still work after 6 months in a lightless mineshaft (the length of time the Eco Drive can go on a full charge without light). Cheers.
14y66ft.jpg
I Have a two tone Ladies Eco-Drive watch for years and I got at JC Penney years ago. I just love it to pieces. I may buy another one in the future.
 

mtasquared

macrumors regular
May 3, 2012
199
39
Are all Citizen eco-drive watches atomic synched?

Not all Citizen Eco Drives are atomic synced. I have to say it is an erie feeling when your watch has the exact time to 1 second every 100,000 years (the accuracy of an atomic clock). With the Rolex, its only accurate to +6/-4 seconds per day. That's a factor of a million.

I Have a two tone Ladies Eco-Drive watch for years and I got at JC Penney years ago. I just love it to pieces. I may buy another one in the future.

I agree, they are awesome watches! Utterly perfect for business wear. However, I think Swiss and German automatic watches are still worth their price premium because they have the originality and design that others pay homage to. Cheers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.