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Who's got a nice watch? Traditional watches only, no smartwatches please.
- Thread starter JW8725
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This seems like a good place to ask... I was given a number of vintage watches (Timex, Bulova, Movado, among others) after my grandfather passed back in the late 90s. Unfortunately, they're all in some sort of disrepair as he was an auto mechanic and treated them fairly poorly. The one I'm particularly interested in getting restored is, I'm told, an early Movado M95 three register chronograph.
I have no idea where to even start finding someone to get an estimate on what that'd entail. Is there some sort of reputable online service I could/should use, or am I better off trying to find someone locally to do that?
I have no idea where to even start finding someone to get an estimate on what that'd entail. Is there some sort of reputable online service I could/should use, or am I better off trying to find someone locally to do that?
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I think most people will tell you to go with a local watch repair shop, especially given the convenience. But as far as independent places, I’ve had really good experiences with Nesbit’s Watch Repair in Seattle. They specialize in Omegas, but their website also lists Movado as a watch brand they’ll work on. I trust them with everything from checking seals to movement overhauls. You might consider asking them about restoration work on your particular chronograph.
Probably one my fave from the collection, so easy to wear because of its small size. the blue dial is beautiful too.
Great thread, visiting again but with an inquiry that I hope someone can help me with.
I just picked up a used Breitling Navitimer, or I think it is one, and the price was honestly TOO good to be true, so I probably know the answer but needing confirmation.
I'll post a picture in a moment but I cannot find this specific model anywhere on Breitling's site nor via the archive.
Timeline/archive:
www.timeline.watch
here is looks like the Breitling Navitimer 1970 version BUT:
1. the second hand is red, and doesn't have the Breitling logo like mine does,
2. needs a battery, on Breitling's site they mention various models with different timing mechanics but not specifically using a battery.
3. outside bezel number does have a RED #10 like mine, a RED #10 on the inner-outter number ring, BUT does NOT have a Red bar 35+2/3rds & Red Arrow at #36 on outter bezel, red bar just below the outter #36, and red bar under #38 on the inner blue bezel.
4. the back case has all international major airport city's has "A24322" and "3 bars"
5. I believe I counted 59 notches on the outter edge of the bezel.
Do I have a fake or am I looking at the wrong model Breitling watch?
Thanks
update: I'm thinking it "may" be either Navitimer B01/B03 ?
6. The Date display is off-center between the 3+6 Chronograph dials.
these seem to be the only ones that have the same red bars and nicks as mine.
??
I just picked up a used Breitling Navitimer, or I think it is one, and the price was honestly TOO good to be true, so I probably know the answer but needing confirmation.
I'll post a picture in a moment but I cannot find this specific model anywhere on Breitling's site nor via the archive.
Timeline/archive:
Timeline Watch
The Dan Henry watch colletcion – Breitling Heuer Rolex Omega Universal Patek Longines Tissot Vacheron IWC Sicura Bulova Movado Tudor Edox Doxa Eska Eberhard Eterna Zenith Audemars Piguet Military Pocket
www.timeline.watch
here is looks like the Breitling Navitimer 1970 version BUT:
1. the second hand is red, and doesn't have the Breitling logo like mine does,
2. needs a battery, on Breitling's site they mention various models with different timing mechanics but not specifically using a battery.
3. outside bezel number does have a RED #10 like mine, a RED #10 on the inner-outter number ring, BUT does NOT have a Red bar 35+2/3rds & Red Arrow at #36 on outter bezel, red bar just below the outter #36, and red bar under #38 on the inner blue bezel.
4. the back case has all international major airport city's has "A24322" and "3 bars"
5. I believe I counted 59 notches on the outter edge of the bezel.
Do I have a fake or am I looking at the wrong model Breitling watch?
Thanks
update: I'm thinking it "may" be either Navitimer B01/B03 ?
Navitimer B01 Chronograph 43 My22 - AB0138211B1A1 | Breitling
Discover the Breitling Navitimer B01 Chronograph 43 My22 in a combination of stainless steel material, black dial and stainless steel strap. Shop now!
www.breitling.com
these seem to be the only ones that have the same red bars and nicks as mine.
??
Attachments
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Great thread, visiting again but with an inquiry that I hope someone can help me with.
Pretty sure this is a fake. The reference A24322 on the back corresponds to the Breitling Navitimer World, which is powered by a mechanical movement and has a central GMT hand complication. As far as I’m aware, the only Navitimers with a battery-powered movement are those that also have a digital display.I just picked up a used Breitling Navitimer, or I think it is one, and the price was honestly TOO good to be true, so I probably know the answer but needing confirmation.
I'll post a picture in a moment but I cannot find this specific model anywhere on Breitling's site nor via the archive.
Timeline/archive:
Timeline Watch
The Dan Henry watch colletcion – Breitling Heuer Rolex Omega Universal Patek Longines Tissot Vacheron IWC Sicura Bulova Movado Tudor Edox Doxa Eska Eberhard Eterna Zenith Audemars Piguet Military Pocket
here is looks like the Breitling Navitimer 1970 version BUT:
1. the second hand is red, and doesn't have the Breitling logo like mine does,
2. needs a battery, on Breitling's site they mention various models with different timing mechanics but not specifically using a battery.
3. outside bezel number does have a RED #10 like mine, a RED #10 on the inner-outter number ring, BUT does NOT have a Red bar 35+2/3rds & Red Arrow at #36 on outter bezel, red bar just below the outter #36, and red bar under #38 on the inner blue bezel.
4. the back case has all international major airport city's has "A24322" and "3 bars"
5. I believe I counted 59 notches on the outter edge of the bezel.
Do I have a fake or am I looking at the wrong model Breitling watch?
Thanks
update: I'm thinking it "may" be either Navitimer B01/B03 ?
6. The Date display is off-center between the 3+6 Chronograph dials.Navitimer B01 Chronograph 43 My22 - AB0138211B1A1 | Breitling
Discover the Breitling Navitimer B01 Chronograph 43 My22 in a combination of stainless steel material, black dial and stainless steel strap. Shop now!www.breitling.com
these seem to be the only ones that have the same red bars and nicks as mine.
??
I too am almost certain that this is a counterfeit Breitling. All the genuine ref A24322 models I've seen and Googled have the subdials at 12, 6 and 9 o'clock in keeping with their automatic movement. Should also have the date window at the 3 o'clock position with the Breitling winged logo above and to the left of the date window. Any for sale well below the $4k to $5K range cannot generally be expected to be an authentic A24322 model.
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Also as far as I know, Breitling doesn't use any chronograph movements with the 60/60/24 gearing for the subdials. Every Breitling Navitimer chronograph I've ever seen has registers for 60/30/12. I hope OP did not spend too much on this if it's fake. Even $300 would be too rich for my blood for a fake watch.😬
I agree with the previous comment that "Even $300 would be too rich for my blood for a fake watch."
Having said that, and slightly off-topic, there are some rather good 'Homage' watches out there for $300 and even less, which imho may possibly be worth considering rather than intentionally (or otherwise) buying a counterfeit watch.
Family members know I'm a keen watch collector and occasionally ask if there's one I'd like for an anniversary or other special event. Not having one I must confess homage watches interested me, but I should hastely add that after doing much research on them, most are cheap - and it's generally well known that "you get what you pay for".
There was one however at approx $400 which truly excited me, and during a visit to my local dentist saw he was wearing one. We had a brief discussion about watches and he allowed me to inspect it and try it on. I was clearly amazed at the very high quality. I mentioned this in passing to a family member, who a year later surprised and presented me with one. And it's truly delightful! Is worn far more frequently than some of my far more expensive models, and has become a very keen favourite. If there's any interest, in due course I'll provide a write-up on this rather special watch, which of course purists will frown upon - and that's ok with me.
Having said that, and slightly off-topic, there are some rather good 'Homage' watches out there for $300 and even less, which imho may possibly be worth considering rather than intentionally (or otherwise) buying a counterfeit watch.
Family members know I'm a keen watch collector and occasionally ask if there's one I'd like for an anniversary or other special event. Not having one I must confess homage watches interested me, but I should hastely add that after doing much research on them, most are cheap - and it's generally well known that "you get what you pay for".
There was one however at approx $400 which truly excited me, and during a visit to my local dentist saw he was wearing one. We had a brief discussion about watches and he allowed me to inspect it and try it on. I was clearly amazed at the very high quality. I mentioned this in passing to a family member, who a year later surprised and presented me with one. And it's truly delightful! Is worn far more frequently than some of my far more expensive models, and has become a very keen favourite. If there's any interest, in due course I'll provide a write-up on this rather special watch, which of course purists will frown upon - and that's ok with me.
My IWC ‘Calatrava’-style, time only watch in stainless steel.
The case is 35mm which was common for the era. From the S/no I dated it as circa 1954. It has the IWC cal. 852 featuring the Pellaton perpetual automatic movement, of which total production was approx 13.000 examples between '52 and '58.
The dauphine style s/s hands have mostly lost their original light green lume and display some light oxidation as does the second hand. The dial is in excellent condition as are the applied s/s indices. I believe (and hope) the dial may be original, although most photos I’ve seen of a similar style IWC with this movement have ‘Automatic’ displayed on the dial.
This is the very first vintage watch I purchased 22 years ago, and when I started collecting at that time I was not only very inexperienced but also had no computer or internet at my disposal to perform in-depth research on models that interested me. How things have changed since then - my knowledge too. It’s not been serviced since my purchase, and is only very occasionally worn. I’ve been wearing it over the last 24 hours and it’s running really well. Given that COSC certified watches (which this is not) have an average accuracy of -4/+6 seconds per day, I’ve timed this IWC at +9 secs over 24hrs whilst being worn on the wrist, which imho is remarkable for a 68 year old watch.
I'm tempted soon to take it into my local watchmaker for a general service. Should be interesting to see if he can improve the accuracy, even by a second or two.
The case is 35mm which was common for the era. From the S/no I dated it as circa 1954. It has the IWC cal. 852 featuring the Pellaton perpetual automatic movement, of which total production was approx 13.000 examples between '52 and '58.
The dauphine style s/s hands have mostly lost their original light green lume and display some light oxidation as does the second hand. The dial is in excellent condition as are the applied s/s indices. I believe (and hope) the dial may be original, although most photos I’ve seen of a similar style IWC with this movement have ‘Automatic’ displayed on the dial.
This is the very first vintage watch I purchased 22 years ago, and when I started collecting at that time I was not only very inexperienced but also had no computer or internet at my disposal to perform in-depth research on models that interested me. How things have changed since then - my knowledge too. It’s not been serviced since my purchase, and is only very occasionally worn. I’ve been wearing it over the last 24 hours and it’s running really well. Given that COSC certified watches (which this is not) have an average accuracy of -4/+6 seconds per day, I’ve timed this IWC at +9 secs over 24hrs whilst being worn on the wrist, which imho is remarkable for a 68 year old watch.
I'm tempted soon to take it into my local watchmaker for a general service. Should be interesting to see if he can improve the accuracy, even by a second or two.
I have two nice watches, both Omegas.
A couple of the pics are stock/third-party pictures (wrist pic is me) as I didn't have handy pics of all angles.
For those interested mine are models 2201.50 and 2254.50
A couple of the pics are stock/third-party pictures (wrist pic is me) as I didn't have handy pics of all angles.
For those interested mine are models 2201.50 and 2254.50
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Gents, thank you for your quick and honest replies - greatly appreciated.
Indeed it seems to be a fake as the model doesn’t match with the replica type of design.
$200 I’m out so I’m super pissed and should’ve known better.
The Kijiji seller has me meet at his place so I will be trying, nicely, to return it for my money back. But either way lesson learned. I’ll be buying a real one in a few months time directly from Breitling - (edit) just found out they have a Yorkdale Mall boutique).
Again, much appreciated.
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I agree with the previous comment that "Even $300 would be too rich for my blood for a fake watch."
Having said that, and slightly off-topic, there are some rather good 'Homage' watches out there for $300 and even less, which imho may possibly be worth considering rather than intentionally (or otherwise) buying a counterfeit watch.
Family members know I'm a keen watch collector and occasionally ask if there's one I'd like for an anniversary or other special event. Not having one I must confess homage watches interested me, but I should hastely add that after doing much research on them, most are cheap - and it's generally well known that "you get what you pay for".
There was one however at approx $400 which truly excited me, and during a visit to my local dentist saw he was wearing one. We had a brief discussion about watches and he allowed me to inspect it and try it on. I was clearly amazed at the very high quality. I mentioned this in passing to a family member, who a year later surprised and presented me with one. And it's truly delightful! Is worn far more frequently than some of my far more expensive models, and has become a very keen favourite. If there's any interest, in due course I'll provide a write-up on this rather special watch, which of course purists will frown upon - and that's ok with me.
I'd be much interested to see such a write up. Since I'm new to vintage or classic watches I'm not even sure what 'homage' really means in this aspect. So go ahead take the time and do a full write up as I'm sure many here would appreciate it.
An homage is a watch that hews very closely to the design of a popular watch but doesn't try to fake it - it uses its own logos and other identifying marks (rather than putting the fake logo/brand of the watch it's copying).
My opinion is an unpopular one among watch circles; but in my mind, homage watches are as bad as fakes. When you think about it, an homage watch is just a counterfeit but the manufacturer didn't have the guts to also replicate the name of the original.I agree with the previous comment that "Even $300 would be too rich for my blood for a fake watch."
Having said that, and slightly off-topic, there are some rather good 'Homage' watches out there for $300 and even less, which imho may possibly be worth considering rather than intentionally (or otherwise) buying a counterfeit watch.
Family members know I'm a keen watch collector and occasionally ask if there's one I'd like for an anniversary or other special event. Not having one I must confess homage watches interested me, but I should hastely add that after doing much research on them, most are cheap - and it's generally well known that "you get what you pay for".
There was one however at approx $400 which truly excited me, and during a visit to my local dentist saw he was wearing one. We had a brief discussion about watches and he allowed me to inspect it and try it on. I was clearly amazed at the very high quality. I mentioned this in passing to a family member, who a year later surprised and presented me with one. And it's truly delightful! Is worn far more frequently than some of my far more expensive models, and has become a very keen favourite. If there's any interest, in due course I'll provide a write-up on this rather special watch, which of course purists will frown upon - and that's ok with me.
The name "homage watch" is also quite funny to me, because if you did the same thing and stole a design in any other industry (say automobiles, smartphones, screenwriting), it would be called a ripoff, a clone, or a hack. Whereas the word "homage" has the connotation of respect and romanticizes the notion of capitalizing on someone else's work.
And as you say, most homage watches fall in the lower end of the price spectrum, because the quality and technology are not on par with those of the manufacturers they're copying.
Very elegant and versatile watch. I wish more dress watches today would go back to this case size. In general, all modern IWCs are too big for my wrists, especially the Aquatimer and Ingenieur lines. Omega did some Seamasters with similar case designs to this in the 50s, and I would love to own one some day, but need to do more research as they came out with many references with small differences.
Excellent choice. I have the James Bond version from the same era in the 36mm midsize. I wish Omega would do a similar dial design with the current Seamaster Professional 300. The lume on this one is next level.👌🏻
Thanks for your interesting comments, and I respect your opinion on homage watches. However I think we'll have to agree to disagree regarding the statements, "homage watches are as bad as fakes.......an homage watch is just a counterfeit".....etc
By defintion, 'counterfeit' means to immitate something as precisely as possible with the intent to deceive, i.e. to produce a faithfull copy. Counterfeiters copy and conceal they are doing so. Coins, banknotes, and many watches do indeed fall into this category, and I'd want no part of it.
So what is a fake? By defintion, something that isn't genuine which may be fraudulently presented. 'Fake 'is synonymous with counterfeit, and generally (but not always) a low quality recreation of the original and manufactured as 'knock-offs' of the real thing generally to deceive.
Of course one can play with words and deform their meanings, and many do.
Given the above, homage watches do indeed immitate other well-known makes & models, but in no way can they be deemed counterfeit with the intent to deceive buyers, as they clearly display another makers name or branding.
Anyone purchasing for example an Invicta, Haiquin or Pagani knows fully well they are not getting a Submariner or Black Bay, although the similarity is startling. Neither do hommages highjack and display the name or logo of the original so imho cannot in any way be deemed counterfeit or fake.
The frequent statement that hommage watches lack originality is generally justified, and I don't deny that, however to counter that idea, there are homage watches that surpass the original design and a few offer far more advanced features i.e. higher water resistance, automatic rather than manual winding, sapphire front crystal, exhibition display caseback, and often higher accuracy and far lower cost of maintenance.
In reality looking around us today, there's very liitle veritable originality, ranging from cars to fashion clothes to the art world. I maintain that a watch should be judged on it's own merits, especially if an iconic design has been copied and is available in a larger or smaller case size, which is an all-important feature for some buyers. I believe it was an English eccentric collector to which we owe the quote, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", and I believe he got that right.
One thing's for sure, for a fraction of the price, I now get as much satisfaction from wearing a top-rate hommage watch than I do from my less accurate vintage Navitimer or Heuer Bund. Enjoyment & immense satisfaction for a fraction of the cost is readily available to those who can only dream of owning an iconic watch. And for me that can't be all bad.
And here m'lord, I rest my case......
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My opinion is an unpopular one among watch circles; but in my mind, homage watches are as bad as fakes. When you think about it, an homage watch is just a counterfeit but the manufacturer didn't have the guts to also replicate the name of the original.
The name "homage watch" is also quite funny to me, because if you did the same thing and stole a design in any other industry (say automobiles, smartphones, screenwriting), it would be called a ripoff, a clone, or a hack. Whereas the word "homage" has the connotation of respect and romanticizes the notion of capitalizing on someone else's work.
And as you say, most homage watches fall in the lower end of the price spectrum, because the quality and technology are not on par with those of the manufacturers they're copying.
Very elegant and versatile watch. I wish more dress watches today would go back to this case size. In general, all modern IWCs are too big for my wrists, especially the Aquatimer and Ingenieur lines. Omega did some Seamasters with similar case designs to this in the 50s, and I would love to own one some day, but need to do more research as they came out with many references with small differences.
Excellent choice. I have the James Bond version from the same era in the 36mm midsize. I wish Omega would do a similar dial design with the current Seamaster Professional 300. The lume on this one is next level.
Homage watches enable people who don’t want to spend thousands to enjoy a similar looking watch. They are nowhere near the same category as the fakes market whatsoever. Most people don’t care though which is good. What I don’t like is actual fakes and some of these now are costing £1k+ and almost identical in aesthetics and quality to the originals. So identical they are even fooling dealers. At least a homage doesn’t use the branding or full aesthetics.
Gorgeous. Just absolutely gorgeous.
I love the clean, classic, lines and sheer understated elegance of this watch.
Beautiful, and well wear, @CooperBox; if I had such a piece, I'd wear it regularly.
Commiserations, @DeepIn2U, and rotten luck; but yes, if something sounds too good to be true, then, it usually is too good to be true. For myself, and this is merely a personal preference, I will only ever buy from authorised dealers.
Fascinating discussion @CooperBox, @myscrnnm and @The-Real-Deal82 on fakes versus homage watches.
While "homage" watches do not appeal to me, and I would not choose to buy one, I would draw a clear distinction between a watch that is openly derived from a specific model or brand, and pays homage to that, in a spirit of admiration and respect, and one that is a fake, something attempting to pass itself off as something that it is not.
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I am absolutely not saying that homage watches are the same thing as counterfeit watches; I'm just saying they are almost as bad as the other as far as the negative effects on the brands that they are stealing designs from and on the industry as a whole.
How is making an homage watch any different from copying someone else's homework and putting your name on it? People often criticize name brand products saying, "oh, you're just paying for the name." But why does any brand in the watch industry have value? Because they built a reputation over several decades, or even several centuries in some instances, through innovation, quality, and design. One's name is a reflection of their integrity. To put your name on a design that was crafted by someone else shows that you have no integrity. You're not a market leader, you're just a follower.
Counterfeits are looked down upon because they're used to fool observers and because they violate intellectual property. To address the first issue, an homage watch is no different than a counterfeit; because a casual observer who isn't into watches will see it and believe that it is a design made by the homage watchmaker (which is definitely a form of deception); and a more knowledgeable observer will see it from a distance and think it's the original. More importantly, regarding the second issue of intellectual property, what the law deems to be a design or invention that can be protected is completely arbitrary. Trademarks, logos, and certain pieces of art can be protected from imitation because courts say so. But if you were a designer, would you say you have no problem with another company profiting off something you spent time and effort into creating without permission?
The people making homage watches aren't not using branding out of any sort of goodness of their heart or concern for the wellbeing of those they are copying. What they're doing is no different from someone utilizing a legal loophole for the purpose of tax avoidance. Yes, legally there's nothing wrong with creating an homage watch because you didn't put "Rolex" on the dial, but it's so blatantly obvious from the design of the watch that everything on it was copied from a Submariner. You said so yourself that one of the primary reasons for obtaining an homage watch is to get a "similar looking watch." So in that case you must also agree that for the parties involved, the most important aspect of the watch is its physical appearance. And in terms of physical appearance, the name of the manufacturer is one of the smallest elements on the exterior of a watch. Therefore, the homage watchmaker has already imitated 99% of what was important, only leaving out that final 1% for the sake of protecting themselves legally.
I’d never support someone wearing a fake watch but don’t agree a homage is designed to fool people because it’s rebranded and obviously not what the overall aesthetics may suggest. I own one homage of the British Navy issue Rolex 5513 Milsub. I don’t have a spare 200 grand but really love the design of the Watch. I’ve never encountered a single person who is even aware of that particular Rolex and to be honest I’ve never worn any of my watches for other peoples benefit and do so purely for my own enjoyment. It’s not fooling anybody and those that know will realise it’s not a Rolex. If it had Rolex on the face, then that’s a different story and I’d happily put it in the crusher.
You make a good case, and I hear what you are saying, - some of your arguments and comments are very well taken - but, I am more inclined to the position expressed by @The-Real-Deal82.
I see homage watches as something akin to the horological equivalent, or version, of cosplay roles; you are showing admiration or paying respect to the original tradition but nobody would ever mistake you for it.
Moreover, those who possess homage watches may yet graduate into purchasing - or being able to purchase - the genuine article.
And, for that matter, some of the homage manufacturers may yet evolve into creating, or crafting, their own original vision, one built on the shoulders of what has gone before.
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Many have referred to this as the classic pilot’s watch. Those well informed have stated that the IWC iconic MKXI was the definitive pilot’s watch designed as a navigational tool for the RAF, and it was in fact a MKXI that I starting hunting for some 20 years ago. Like the MKX before it - which I believe was produced for the British Army - both were and still are very difficult to find.
It was around that same period that I was then offered a MK XII which until then I hadn’t considered, but after researching that model realised that it would offer as much, if not even more.
I say offers more than the previous models as it has an added date and also an automatic movement. And what a gem of a movement it is too! A state of the art Cal.884 with a soft iron, ‘Milgauss-ish’ anti-magnetic shield added within the caseback, sapphire crystal and a screw-down crown. A movement that IWC based off the Jeager LeCoultre Cal. 889/2. IWC/JLC - some may say a partnership made in heaven!
The following is that movement (but not my photo) as I've never had the caseback removed.
Aesthetically the watch is simple with extreme legibility, and to my eyes just about perfect. Quite a sober change to some of my other pilot watches which have extremely busy dials.
With a case width of 36mm, by today’s standard this is not an imposing watch. Production of this model I believe was from 1994-1999.
I'm fortunate in having this watch as a complete set, with original box and all papers. It gets worn and enjoyed quite frequently.
It was around that same period that I was then offered a MK XII which until then I hadn’t considered, but after researching that model realised that it would offer as much, if not even more.
I say offers more than the previous models as it has an added date and also an automatic movement. And what a gem of a movement it is too! A state of the art Cal.884 with a soft iron, ‘Milgauss-ish’ anti-magnetic shield added within the caseback, sapphire crystal and a screw-down crown. A movement that IWC based off the Jeager LeCoultre Cal. 889/2. IWC/JLC - some may say a partnership made in heaven!
The following is that movement (but not my photo) as I've never had the caseback removed.
Aesthetically the watch is simple with extreme legibility, and to my eyes just about perfect. Quite a sober change to some of my other pilot watches which have extremely busy dials.
With a case width of 36mm, by today’s standard this is not an imposing watch. Production of this model I believe was from 1994-1999.
I'm fortunate in having this watch as a complete set, with original box and all papers. It gets worn and enjoyed quite frequently.
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