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Honestly I run all 3 major OS's. Linux really hardly ever. Windows is ugly and tacky. The gradients and designs it uses for the UI are straight out of Walmart. Win 7 no change from Vista. As an artist I cringe. That's why I don't use it very much. Has nothing to do actually being able to work or not. Pretty easy to work on anything these days. Text file editing is also better than a registry. Unix is better than DOS, imo. Nice troll OP.
 
I should also add that having access to Shake 4 as well as expandability for audio and video tools (ProTools especially) is another key reason for me having a Mac Pro (Been using it for 3-4 years in various incarnations, so I have Shake installed on 4 of my Macs, and Id hate to lose its capabilities, even if it does like "Segmentation Faults" and other nonsense on occasion).
 
The gradients and designs it uses for the UI are straight out of Walmart. Win 7 no change from Vista. As an artist I cringe.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You will get a lot of arguments about UI's. Its a matter of taste just like you may find a woman to be gorgeous whilst another person may find the same person butt ugly.
 
I've got mine, because generally I've found it a lot more stable than the windows machines at work.

Also longetivity, I've had mine since 2008, if it was a PC desktop, i'd probably be looking at getting a new one by now. But my mac pro still runs, never gets turned off and i just stick more RAM and hard drives in it...... It loves it....

I do want to get a second one, and put glass between them to make a coffee table though :D
 
I'm due for a new machine this year and would really love to have a new MacPro, but that may not be feasible.

I am thinking of a used '08 Harpertown/'09 Nehalem if I can get one around $1500 and then spec it up. Alternatively I could buy a brand-spanking-new custom-built rackmount PC with an i7 for around $2500.

It's a tough call. The dual-CPU MacPros are somewhat reasonably priced, but the single CPU units are not. And that is assuming you buy a base-model and spec it up yourself.

I really love OSX and CoreAudio is a big plus, but frankly it may not be enough to justify the "Apple tax".
 
To me the mac vs pc thing is overblown. I use both currently... a black macbook core2duo with os x, and a homebrew (built circa about nov-dec 08 iirc) i7-920 quad with 6gb of ddr in triple channel on a gigabyte mobo, with an ati 4870, a cl titanium soundcard in an antec case.

The pc runs both win7 and osx like a champ (built a hackintosh setup on a usb key and its flawless.) Its one of the neatest builds I've ever seen... everything is routed behind the backplate. Performance wise its amazingly good; will run 3 copies of WoW simultaneously with full graphics and sound enabled on each instance, without the slightest hitch... but OSX and Win7 are both simply tools to run the applications you want. Neither can do something extraordinarily extra over the other, nor does either have definitive stability or usability benefits.

I've run OSX on it but simply don't bother now. If you want to flip between live copies of WoW for multiboxing, aero peek is simply too good. The whole windows stability and virus thing is a canard. I've gotten a virus (actually a trojan) twice in 16 years of pcs... and both were my fault; a keygen and a cracked piece of software (and the caveat with viruses for OSX is a trojan can still screw you, so... no difference.) MS Security Essentials is great and free, and MS includes signed drivers for 99.999% of hardware in (default on) updates.

Windows used to crash not because of anything intrinsically bad about windows but because the hardware manufacturers wrote crap drivers. The latest WDM is really good, and since drivers are now pushed automatically (along with security updates and virus definitions,) there is very very little comparison to the windows of ysterday and the windows of now... except a lot of people still pretend its still yesterday to make themselves feel better about a value judgment they made.

None of this says OSX is bad or Apple hardware is bad (Apple hardware is commodity intel etc stuff.) If you do an hour or two of research on the web you can figure out foolproof hackintosh hardware sets (if you have to have OSX,) and reliable high value for money hardware. The only truly attractive aspect of buying apple... especially Mac Pros (who overdo the apple tax unreasonably) is if you want an Apple Warranty. I never bought a warranty for any pc (and I bought squaretrade warranties for my mobile stuff.)

For anyone who's only had pc's that you've bought 'last two years' you're simply doing it wrong or not being factual.
 
Mac Pro or PC

Back in 2006 i have bought an mac pro, because is expansion compatibility i was wrong... in 2009 i would like to buy a new graphics card, no luck my 64 bit mac pro only have a 32 bit bios and don't support new cards (apple limitation no real limitation), if i install windows in that mac i can use any card up to date that i want. so pissed off that i have sell my mac pro and built a custom pc, and i am very happy.

two Quadro FX cards, 8 Gb Ram, rackmount case for 9 3.5" hard drives and so on. great machine. now is my desktop computer, file server and media center. great. and windows 7 pro 64 is great and solid no complains. for anti virus i use eset.

i use avid media composer, pro tools, adobe suite in that machine. i have 3 displays in that machine 2 LCD and one HDMI 42" for view movies with boxee. I use apple keyboard, mouse and to see movies i use magic trackpad...great. if i want i can use apple display (quadro have Display Port) working 24/7, since 02/2010. remote access, ftp. buy good hardware and certified ram for that motherboard (see motherboard manual) and a good power supply. if you have money buy and SSD intel drive to install windows OS.

I love apple, i use macbook pro, macbook, ipod and so on but for a good desktop with endless possibilities, pc is better in my opinion

pc.jpg



to make apple keyboard and magic track pad work on windows:

http://myteksolutions.blogspot.com/2010/05/apple-keyboard-on-windows.html

http://myteksolutions.blogspot.com/2010/12/apple-magic-trackpad-on-windows-7.html
 
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Get a monster high-end PC. Upgrade it anytime you want. Believe me, Windows 7 is just as stable as Mac OS X. Just use it right and clean.
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You will get a lot of arguments about UI's. Its a matter of taste just like you may find a woman to be gorgeous whilst another person may find the same person butt ugly.

Isn't this the whole point of this thread? Subjectivity.
 
Get a monster high-end PC. Upgrade it anytime you want. Believe me, Windows 7 is just as stable as Mac OS X. Just use it right and clean.

Even if it was, which it isnt (Certainly not in my experience managing it over a deployment of 750 DELLs - they have twice as many proportional software related crashses as the mac Fleet does), it still doesnt make up for the fact the software for what I do is either worse or more expensive. (As mentioned before, Im a very heavy ProApps user, and cant stand adobes versions, and AVIDs costs more and is another thing to learn) - and for music production the only thing Windows could even get close to having an edge over the Mac is for sampling, its still a complete mess. PCs are a mess, from the start to the end everything is more hassle - I shouldn't have to keep my OS clean, it should do that. I shouldn't have to reconfigure things manually, it should do it by itself if asked. Windows is still an architectural mess, and it will be till MS rewrite it from the ground up, and Linux doesnt have any of the software at all. (The only UNIX variant apart from OS X Id use for media production is IRIX, which I do use for some stuff on a SGI Fuel, but I cant say Id like to use it full time)
 
Even if it was, which it isnt (Certainly not in my experience managing it over a deployment of 750 DELLs - they have twice as many proportional software related crashses as the mac Fleet does), it still doesnt make up for the fact the software for what I do is either worse or more expensive. (As mentioned before, Im a very heavy ProApps user, and cant stand adobes versions, and AVIDs costs more and is another thing to learn) - and for music production the only thing Windows could even get close to having an edge over the Mac is for sampling, its still a complete mess. PCs are a mess, from the start to the end everything is more hassle - I shouldn't have to keep my OS clean, it should do that. I shouldn't have to reconfigure things manually, it should do it by itself if asked. Windows is still an architectural mess, and it will be till MS rewrite it from the ground up, and Linux doesnt have any of the software at all. (The only UNIX variant apart from OS X Id use for media production is IRIX, which I do use for some stuff on a SGI Fuel, but I cant say Id like to use it full time)

*chuckles* You know... I'm gonna have to call shenanigans here... I started reading thru... smiling all the way... then hit the part about SGI then knew you had to be full of it. Then I clicked the youtube channel link... and yep. Looks about 20 years old. Could I be wrong? well.. probably not considering the identifiable bedroom/dormroom in the flickr feed showing your dorm room, or the talk about college and age in the twitter feed.

Now... lets be REALLLLLLY charitable, and say that somehow they let you administer their college network. First... I think you should do the moral thing and let the world know which college was dumb enough to let that happen, and secondly if any administrator knowingly had a 500+ seat installation getting enough "software crashes" to matter without resolving it tout-de-suite, its 100% the administrators fault and he's going to (or should) get canned immediately.

Now, if you are an admin then of course, its unsurprising you're having issues keeping things in check with those "750 DELLs" and "mac Fleet" what with your college, blog ("content central." and sweet Tokelau domain name, brah) and development company (lawl.)

Now, the most ironic part of this post was how out of date the (now defunct) SGI references were... and that (the company that bought and used it for its IP) SGI now makes x86 blades and rack minicomputers that run not only SUSE or Redhat (sorry, no OSX support) but Windows too. Up to 2048 cores.

So you could run a few racks in the basement for a shared memory system with processor blades, install a retail WS08DC r2 and have a machine workstation that could literally decimate any known OSX workstation in any threaded task.

Oh.. and IRIX died about 5 years ago. Don't worry though... I didn't know **** back in college either (although,fwiw, I had been coding 3 kinds of assembler before you were born, by the time I was 12.)
 
*chuckles* You know... I'm gonna have to call shenanigans here... I started reading thru... smiling all the way... then hit the part about SGI then knew you had to be full of it. Then I clicked the youtube channel link... and yep. Looks about 20 years old. Could I be wrong? well.. probably not considering the identifiable bedroom/dormroom in the flickr feed showing your dorm room, or the talk about college and age in the twitter feed.

Now... lets be REALLLLLLY charitable, and say that somehow they let you administer their college network. First... I think you should do the moral thing and let the world know which college was dumb enough to let that happen, and secondly if any administrator knowingly had a 500+ seat installation getting enough "software crashes" to matter without resolving it tout-de-suite, its 100% the administrators fault and he's going to (or should) get canned immediately.

Now, if you are an admin then of course, its unsurprising you're having issues keeping things in check with those "750 DELLs" and "mac Fleet" what with your college, blog ("content central." and sweet Tokelau domain name, brah) and development company (lawl.)

Now, the most ironic part of this post was how out of date the (now defunct) SGI references were... and that (the company that bought and used it for its IP) SGI now makes x86 blades and rack minicomputers that run not only SUSE or Redhat (sorry, no OSX support) but Windows too. Up to 2048 cores.

So you could run a few racks in the basement for a shared memory system with processor blades, install a retail WS08DC r2 and have a machine workstation that could literally decimate any known OSX workstation in any threaded task.

Oh.. and IRIX died about 5 years ago. Don't worry though... I didn't know **** back in college either (although,fwiw, I had been coding 3 kinds of assembler before you were born, by the time I was 12.)

1) I was a paid IT Technician for my sixth form college for 2 years, if you want proof Im sure I can find some for you. I finished there when I moved to uni.
2) I have an SGI Fuel. I like IRIX 6.5.30 It didnt die 5 years ago, they just stopped selling machines with it on it 5 years ago, and stopped development then. It has some really nice software, and I like the UI, then again I still use OS9 for some software (th0nk 0+2). And IRIX is still supported until 2013 - its hardly dead.
3) There were 5 of us managing a deployment of 750 DELLS and 150 Macs (iMacs - some white, some 20" Alu) - In a college of 2000 pupills across years 12 and 13 (Grades 11 and 12 in American) - I was the evening support tech, and worked over the summer upgrading and maintaining the network while a language school rented the school. - The software was required by the college, it wasn't our choice, it was a county level decision, and it crashed the machines regularly (It was a SIMS tool based on MS Access and SQL Server 2005 - and since it had to run on every machine at logon, so students could self-certify their absences before waiting approval from a tutor, it made logging in incredibly slow, and it caused all kinds of havoc). My experience in said environment was that the DELLs had a much higher software failiure rate than the Imacs. I didnt have purchasing power over the software, if I did we wouldve been using a properly done web-based system for certifying abscences from the start, and would actually assess departments needs instead of throwing OptiPlex 3xx series machines at them randomly, which is what happened.
4) SGI is no longer SGI, it is part of rackable systems - I like the old SGI, pre switching off MIPS, and pre-abandoning IRIX those machines are still useful to this day, and I love them. They also have plenty of relevance since they are still in use in many places for things, because people upgrade slowly
5) That isnt my development company, it is thecreativeg33k/ware.am.i's. I have absolutely nothing to do with it, and I dont know where you pulled it from, except from a RETWEET. Quite clearly labelled as such, which shows you cant use TWITTER :rolleyes: - I dont develop software for iOS, because I dont have the time to support it, I have other things to do.
6) I can code assembler too, although it isnt particularly enjoyable, because I prefer not having to remember 3-4 character instructions and what I left in which register. I dont have a development company however, because I have more important things to do with my time, such as teaching myself Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro.
7) That blog is 2 years old, and Im surprised is still there, Ive given up on blogging as it takes as much time as video content, which is what my subscribers prefer, I also took down the old entries as Id had enough of them, and didnt consider them valuable enough - that page was a quickly thrown together holding page in iWeb '08, and hasnt been touched in 2 years. If you could read youd see that.
8) Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro dont even run on Linux. The only part of my workflow that would run is Shake, and even then I doubt it would run any better than it does under OS X.
 
Dear People,

I would like to know your thoughts? I like OSX, I like Apple hardware, I like Mac software, we own a Mac Book Pro and an Imac a PC, and we will buy a Mac Pro this week or so.

Why not buy a PC instead: the same setup will cost 1000,- less, it has more extra's (like more RAM, USB3, eSata), Windows 7 is stabil?

I guess you have already purchased your Mac Pro by now, no?

It comes down to

(1) which apps you need to run

(2) whether you have already invested a lot in Apple systems

In my office, we produce trailers, DVD/Blu-ray menus, TV spots, posters, print ads and huge outdoor advertising. We have invested a great deal in Mac systems over the years and we're kind of stuck with it at this point.

However, we have a few windows machines that we use for BD/DVD authoring.

Recently I've seen some interesting advances with top tier windows machines + CS5 + top tier NVIDIA Quadro and GTX cards.

http://ppbm5.com/Benchmark5.html
 

1+3) This is just too wonderful. So... lemme get this straight. I assume because you mention this Access/SQLServer setup that's where the network crashes were happening. You're using an example of a bespoke visual basic/forms application crashing to prove that "windows crashes more", right? Here's a hint. Access was designed as a small workgroup database and was coded with optimistic network expectations: it has very low tolerance for inconsistant R/W. As such even too many collisions, let alone an iffy switch could screw an unlucky mdb. This isn't a case of a broken OS... its a case of using the wrong tool for the job. Its like using a circular saw vs a table saw to cut wood straight. Both will theoretically cut wood straight, but you have to be perfect on one to do so. This is one of those "computer user, non technical" situations that PSS so enjoys chatting about. Using a real front end using standard ODBC would solve this, because you can catch network exceptions and tune to your network.

That's not to say you can't use an access front end, but you need a high degree of network uniformity to make it work... which requires a bit of network admin skill. So.. what were you using to maintain network and system integrity?

2+4) If you can't buy it anymore it is by every definition obsolete. Any production environment would be certifiably insane to use a product that they couldn't replace or upgrade. I can tell you in production design companies (per example, my second-line support experience in a sporting/gaming card publisher in mid-town NYC, among others) upgrade quickly. Time was the most valuable resource to them, and technology costs were basically incidental, but there were no old machines on the network.

Also, the SGI Fuel is now by modern rendering standards a POS. Anything modern with a recent Quadra walks rings around it. Hardly a knock on it.. its almost a decade old, but seriously. Its junk next to a modern workstation.

5+7) Good point about the retweet, I guess I just missed that when I was overcome by the ... in your own words, "content central" blog. As for the blog disappearing this sounds like magical thinking... but then I guess you just "think different". For the rest of us you have to actually do something to change something.

6) As far back as the early 80s, CS pros had already figured out structured assembler... but then you know about as much about that as you do about OS architecture.

8) Uhhh.. strawman much? I raised the irony that the entity that absorbed SGI now made a windows box that could take any mac os x workstation to peformance school, on Avid Media Composer, Avid Pro Tools and for more of a challenge, say... Autodesk Maya
 
D00dz, eat sum Xanax and send each other love letters through email or pm's. If it was fun to read your rants, that'd be one thing, but it's just ... coma inducingly boring and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. ZzzzzzzzzZ

My grandfather ran CP/M on an Apple ][ using a Microsoft CP/M card! I also have 6502 assembly op codes tattooed inside my eyelids, and thusly, am far more elite then you could ever dream of being. Hah! So there. This conclusively proves why the Mac Pro r0x0rz.

Go outside. Save yourself!

Also, it's completely obvious that the reason everybody should buy a Mac Pro is 'cuz it's shiny, and pretty, and shows the world you have more dollars then sense.
 
2+4) If you can't buy it anymore it is by every definition obsolete. Any production environment would be certifiably insane to use a product that they couldn't replace or upgrade. I can tell you in production design companies (per example, my second-line support experience in a sporting/gaming card publisher in mid-town NYC, among others) upgrade quickly. Time was the most valuable resource to them, and technology costs were basically incidental, but there were no old machines on the network.

Eh, not so much in large corporations (and government/educational institutions). I have to work infrastructure architecture solutions around legacy hardware that is years out of date all the time at the large financial firm I work for. IT spend is not considered "incidental" and business lines are loathe to spend anything on it if "what's there works" even with the ancient aspects of it. It becomes a recurring loop of stressful-quick upgrades at the "bitter end" of some compliance issue to get them to finally move. When you have dozens of business lines with thousands of servers, its far more prevalent that you would ever think acceptable. Add to that, this fellow is from the UK, where at my multinational, they're the region worst at not wanting to update systems, lol. The US team is usually the first willing to hop on board the newer equipment.
 
1+3) This is just too wonderful. So... lemme get this straight. I assume because you mention this Access/SQLServer setup that's where the network crashes were happening. You're using an example of a bespoke visual basic/forms application crashing to prove that "windows crashes more", right? Here's a hint. Access was designed as a small workgroup database and was coded with optimistic network expectations: it has very low tolerance for inconsistant R/W. As such even too many collisions, let alone an iffy switch could screw an unlucky mdb. This isn't a case of a broken OS... its a case of using the wrong tool for the job. Its like using a circular saw vs a table saw to cut wood straight. Both will theoretically cut wood straight, but you have to be perfect on one to do so. This is one of those "computer user, non technical" situations that PSS so enjoys chatting about. Using a real front end using standard ODBC would solve this, because you can catch network exceptions and tune to your network.

That's not to say you can't use an access front end, but you need a high degree of network uniformity to make it work... which requires a bit of network admin skill. So.. what were you using to maintain network and system integrity?

2+4) If you can't buy it anymore it is by every definition obsolete. Any production environment would be certifiably insane to use a product that they couldn't replace or upgrade. I can tell you in production design companies (per example, my second-line support experience in a sporting/gaming card publisher in mid-town NYC, among others) upgrade quickly. Time was the most valuable resource to them, and technology costs were basically incidental, but there were no old machines on the network.

Also, the SGI Fuel is now by modern rendering standards a POS. Anything modern with a recent Quadra walks rings around it. Hardly a knock on it.. its almost a decade old, but seriously. Its junk next to a modern workstation.

5+7) Good point about the retweet, I guess I just missed that when I was overcome by the ... in your own words, "content central" blog. As for the blog disappearing this sounds like magical thinking... but then I guess you just "think different". For the rest of us you have to actually do something to change something.

6) As far back as the early 80s, CS pros had already figured out structured assembler... but then you know about as much about that as you do about OS architecture.

8) Uhhh.. strawman much? I raised the irony that the entity that absorbed SGI now made a windows box that could take any mac os x workstation to peformance school, on Avid Media Composer, Avid Pro Tools and for more of a challenge, say... Autodesk Maya

1) Assembler is not a challenge, the real challenge, which, if you had a clue about CS you would know, is to get computers to understand English. If you had created a super-high-level language I would be impressed, not your ability to learn assembler. Especially since you didnt mention which chip you learnt it for.
2) I probably know more about OS Internals than you do, you know, since Im currently coding some display kernel functions for a embedded nanokernel Im working on. (Give me a year and it might get done enough for it to earn a sourceforge page - Ill PM you when it gets there, so you can point out any holes in it)
3) Everyone knows the free Tokelau domains supposedly disappear after a while - I havent been to that site in 2 years, and I figured noone would go there for 90 days and it wouldve gone - as soon as I can Im going to yank it as it is admittedly incredibly incredibly embarassing, and an atrocity in terms of design.
4) I use the SGI Fuel not for rendering but for software that is old, and doesnt have a replacement, same as I use OS9. Plenty of Pros use old software because there isnt a replacement, this is why many Pros keep G3s or SGIs or Windows Boxes in their studios while using Intel Macs, because the software hasnt been replaced. I know of TV Studios that used Quadra 840avs to grab stills from Master VHSs until 2006/2007 - just because its stopped being sold doesnt invalidate its use. If that was true most music studios would have 0 gear in them - I mean plenty of synths have been "discontinued" but people still use them. your argument is ridiculous. I mean, its the same reason people dont upgrade their computers every time Apple release a new Mac Pro - it still works, so theres no need. Heck plenty of professional musicians and video editors still use G5s. If you think different your out of touch with reality.
5) Im complaining that Windows BSODs when a supposed feature of SQL Server 2005 fails - it is sold to educational institutions as being able to use this system (Access only acts as a front end to a SQL Instance. Its a mess, but not my choice - surely Windows should be able to interact properly with a MS product (SQL Server) as opposed to say MySQL. - it should also be said it isnt a bespoke product, it is a product used in maybe 60% of school districts here, and a few others abroad - the Macs much more sensibly just quit the app and continue logging in, instead of crashing. All this shows is Windows' internal architecture is in a lot worse shape than the UNIX/BSD underpinnings of Mac OS X.
6) Avid ProTools is a valid point, but having ProTools and Logic together make them a lot more useful, as each has its own strengths, and weaknesses, as any musician can tell you. Why settle for one when you can have both?

Oh and to thepawn - when I left the PC replacement cycle was every 6 years (OptiPlex: GX280/520/620, 210L, 320, 330, 360 and 380/FX160 are all in service, all on phased replacement cycles), the Macs were "when it dies" -we even had 2 Dual Quicksilver G4s from 2001 still in service, and from what I hear, are still in service today, same goes for plenty of iMac G5s.
 
Seriously, I think those that complained about windows not being stable and prone to virus are just idiots.
 
Seriously, I think those that complained about windows not being stable and prone to virus are just idiots.

I think Windows OS is a great OS and as good as the MacOSX. I think they are both good. Why not get a MP and get the best of both worlds by installing both OSes?
 
I've built my own window systems for the past 10 years, and i i've never had problem with it, especially now running windows 7. My PC is usually on 24/7 and the last time i restarted it was 2 months ago. The last time it crashed was.. never, as far as i can recall. However, ever since i first got a macbook pro back in 2007 after enrolling in my design program, i fell in love with osx. There's just something about the OS that makes it so much more efficient when working compared to windows. For example, when working on the PC, i can only have 1 main working window opened(for example, illustrator) on my 27" dell monitor. However on my mac, i can somehow multi task fine with everything crammed on to my tiny 11" mba.

I can't really pinpoint on what makes the overall experience so much better on osx than windows7, but i think its a combination of minimalistic UI, and features like expose. Or as steve jobs puts it, its magical.

Currently, im doing all my design related work on my mba hooked on my 27" monitor instead of my corei7 940 PC. Sure it's a bit slower, but everything just feels so much smoother and i just work so much more efficiently. I am struggling to decide either waiting on a mp/imac refresh or go with the newly refreshed mbp.
 
I've built my own window systems for the past 10 years, and i i've never had problem with it, especially now running windows 7. My PC is usually on 24/7 and the last time i restarted it was 2 months ago. The last time it crashed was.. never, as far as i can recall. However, ever since i first got a macbook pro back in 2007 after enrolling in my design program, i fell in love with osx. There's just something about the OS that makes it so much more efficient when working compared to windows. For example, when working on the PC, i can only have 1 main working window opened(for example, illustrator) on my 27" dell monitor. However on my mac, i can somehow multi task fine with everything crammed on to my tiny 11" mba.

I can't really pinpoint on what makes the overall experience so much better on osx than windows7, but i think its a combination of minimalistic UI, and features like expose. Or as steve jobs puts it, its magical.

Currently, im doing all my design related work on my mba hooked on my 27" monitor instead of my corei7 940 PC. Sure it's a bit slower, but everything just feels so much smoother and i just work so much more efficiently. I am struggling to decide either waiting on a mp/imac refresh or go with the newly refreshed mbp.

LOL for 10 years (hard to believe) and you still don't know the shortcuts to windows? Ever heard of right click on the task bar and select windows side by side? Or just grab the app and slide all the way left/right until windows re-size if for you.
 
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