Why Apple is successful

[MorphingDragon]

Bose do not innovate, they repackage off the shelf components and market them to those knowledgeable enough to think that with a bit of marketing magic and the placebo effect they're getting something special.

Don't beat yourself up about it, that sort of marketing works on countless others and I'm sure I and everyone else has fallen for other comparable examples with other consumer goods but Bose is what it is, certainly not innovative, high quality or value for money.

Bose makes crap PA equipment too.

 

[MonkeySee....]

Bose do not innovate, they repackage off the shelf components and market them to those knowledgeable enough to think that with a bit of marketing magic and the placebo effect they're getting something special.

Don't beat yourself up about it, that sort of marketing works on countless others and I'm sure I and everyone else has fallen for other comparable examples with other consumer goods but Bose is what it is, certainly not innovative, high quality or value for money.

When I was in Florida about 6/7 years ago I went into a Bose shop. They were doing something out the back and asked if we wanted a demo. We said yes and went into a room and sat in front of a big TV and these massive floor speakers.

The presentation started and we were absolutely blown away by the crisp tones and great low ends coming from these speakers. And these were loud, Very loud.

Near the end of the presentation with the orchestra blaring out these two guys came in and looked like they were taking the speakers away but the where actually removing the covers which concealed 4 small Bose cube speakers.

You can mock Bose all you want but its experiences like this that make me look at Bose products.

 

[ixodes]

I write software. It's magical

I concur

 

[MorphingDragon]

When I was in Florida about 6/7 years ago I went into a Bose shop. They were doing something out the back and asked if we wanted a demo. We said yes and went into a room and sat in front of a big TV and these massive floor speakers.

The presentation started and we were absolutely blown away by the crisp tones and great low ends coming from these speakers. And these were loud, Very loud.

Near the end of the presentation with the orchestra blaring out these two guys came in and looked like they were taking the speakers away but the where actually removing the covers which concealed 4 small Bose cube speakers.

You can mock Bose all you want but its experiences like this that make me look at Bose products.

Bose Cube Speakers, you mean these things?

They're ****, the drivers are **** and the AMP is ****. You should be looking at Pioneer and Yamaha. Prebuilt Home Theatre Systems are crap, and the demonstrations are rigged and fine tuned beyond belief. As someone who worked in HiFi and was an Audio Technician, you can get much better for cheaper.

 

[Mord]

When I was in Florida about 6/7 years ago I went into a Bose shop. They were doing something out the back and asked if we wanted a demo. We said yes and went into a room and sat in front of a big TV and these massive floor speakers.

The presentation started and we were absolutely blown away by the crisp tones and great low ends coming from these speakers. And these were loud, Very loud.

Near the end of the presentation with the orchestra blaring out these two guys came in and looked like they were taking the speakers away but the where actually removing the covers which concealed 4 small Bose cube speakers.

You can mock Bose all you want but its experiences like this that make me look at Bose products.

Marketing.

Loud is not difficult, I spent ~£800 on the sound system in my living room, and I could have spent a lot less on my amp, yet it can go as loud as anyone finds comfortable without distorting or clipping, at a range of 18Hz-40KHz flat, the sub-bass can be felt through the floors and walls if what I'm playing through them has that range and everything through them is crystal clear. Loud and good sounding can be achieved for far less than what I spent as I was keen on a level of sub-bass that isn't often found outside of electronic music.

It's just a stereo system, there are many like it.

Most consumers are used to crappy speakers, those built into tvs, budget 5.1 systems and such. Massive floor speakers are not for sitting in small rooms, they're for vast music halls, live events and such filled with people all making noise which music needs to be reproduced over such that it still sounds good. The marketing trick there was to make you think that ordinarily to sound that good big speakers like that would be required which is a complete falsehood, in a typical living room you don't need much to eclipse your appetite for volume, nor do you need anything more than 25w or so to get that loud without distorting or clipping when paired with efficient speakers.

As I said, they use off the shelf components, overprice them and use marketing techniques like that, as salesmen they are certainly impressive, but compared to other products on the market it's overpriced snake oil.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Marketing.

Loud is not difficult, I spent ~£800 on the sound system in my living room, and I could have spent a lot less on my amp, yet it can go as loud as anyone finds comfortable without distorting or clipping, at a range of 18Hz-40KHz flat, the sub-bass can be felt through the floors and walls if what I'm playing through them has that range and everything through them is crystal clear. Loud and good sounding can be achieved for far less than what I spent as I was keen on a level of sub-bass that isn't often found outside of electronic music.

It's just a stereo system, there are many like it.

Most consumers are used to crappy speakers, those built into tvs, budget 5.1 systems and such. Massive floor speakers are not for sitting in small rooms, they're for vast music halls, live events and such filled with people all making noise which music needs to be reproduced over such that it still sounds good. The marketing trick there was to make you think that ordinarily to sound that good big speakers like that would be required which is a complete falsehood, in a typical living room you don't need much to eclipse your appetite for volume, nor do you need anything more than 25w or so to get that loud without distorting or clipping when paired with efficient speakers.

As I said, they use off the shelf components, overprice them and use marketing techniques like that, as salesmen they are certainly impressive, but compared to other products on the market it's overpriced snake oil.

I actually started recommending friends the Logitech 5.1 systems like the Z906. Half the price of Bose and decent sound quality for their price in smaller rooms. A lot of people actually already have a decent HiFi system in their house, they just never thought to hook it up to their TV.

 

[Mord]

I actually started recommending friends the Logitech 5.1 systems like the Z906. Half the price of Bose and decent sound quality for their price in smaller rooms. A lot of people actually already have a decent HiFi system in their house, they just never thought to hook it up to their TV.

Image

I pondered buying one years ago but I just don't care for 5.1, we rarely watch films and when we do it's not so we can hear things directionally.

I just prefer good stereo, with bass cones large enough to do sub-bass properly from a certain period of british built excellence gone by.

So I have a pair of these http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/05/609/60969/a.jpg

 

[MonkeySee....]

Bose Cube Speakers, you mean these things?

Image

They're ****, the drivers are **** and the AMP is ****. You should be looking at Pioneer and Yamaha. Prebuilt Home Theatre Systems are crap, and the demonstrations are rigged and fine tuned beyond belief. As someone who worked in HiFi and was an Audio Technician, you can get much better for cheaper.

Marketing.

Loud is not difficult, I spent ~£800 on the sound system in my living room, and I could have spent a lot less on my amp, yet it can go as loud as anyone finds comfortable without distorting or clipping, at a range of 18Hz-40KHz flat, the sub-bass can be felt through the floors and walls if what I'm playing through them has that range and everything through them is crystal clear. Loud and good sounding can be achieved for far less than what I spent as I was keen on a level of sub-bass that isn't often found outside of electronic music.

It's just a stereo system, there are many like it.

Most consumers are used to crappy speakers, those built into tvs, budget 5.1 systems and such. Massive floor speakers are not for sitting in small rooms, they're for vast music halls, live events and such filled with people all making noise which music needs to be reproduced over such that it still sounds good. The marketing trick there was to make you think that ordinarily to sound that good big speakers like that would be required which is a complete falsehood, in a typical living room you don't need much to eclipse your appetite for volume, nor do you need anything more than 25w or so to get that loud without distorting or clipping when paired with efficient speakers.

As I said, they use off the shelf components, overprice them and use marketing techniques like that, as salesmen they are certainly impressive, but compared to other products on the market it's overpriced snake oil.

Well I guess its down to you own experience. I personally find their stuff exceptional.

 

[MorphingDragon]

I pondered buying one years ago but I just don't care for 5.1, we rarely watch films and when we do it's not so we can hear things directionally.

I just prefer good stereo, with bass cones large enough to do sub-bass properly from a certain period of british built excellence gone by.

So I have a pair of these http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/05/609/60969/a.jpg

Eh, they just tell me what they want and I give it to them. Some of them play games and a 5.1 can be effective on better designed games.

My mum has a Pioneer system from the 70s, sounds better than most stuff I've heard with the exception of my headphones and monitor speakers in recording studios.

I have an ASUS Essence STX, logitech Z623, Heaphone AMP, Graphic EQ and a pair of Sennheizer 598s. They're relatively flat so with the EQ I can get any colour I like, I prefer clean bass but I can give them a little more kick by boosting the lower channels.

I can't tell you how much the STX improves sound quality alone. it's an amazing little sound card.

Well I guess its down to you own experience. I personally find their stuff exceptional.

I invite you to my Uncle's studio.

 

[MonkeySee....]

Eh, they just tell me what they want and I give it to them. Some of them play games and a 5.1 can be effective on better designed games.

My mum has a Pioneer system from the 70s, sounds better than most stuff I've heard with the exception of my headphones and monitor speakers in recording studios.

I have an ASUS Essence STX, logitech Z623, Heaphone AMP, Graphic EQ and a pair of Sennheizer 598s. They're relatively flat so with the EQ I can get any colour I like, I prefer clean bass but I can give them a little more kick by boosting the lower channels.

I can't tell you how much the STX improves sound quality alone. it's an amazing little sound card.



I invite you to my Uncle's studio.

Will I get free stuff?

 

[MorphingDragon]

Will I get free stuff?

Some "Cookies" and a blowjob?

 

[Mord]

Well I guess its down to you own experience. I personally find their stuff exceptional.

It's not really, it's down to professional testing that shows what value for money bose really isn't. Though if you want to continue to believe in the magic of marketing be my guest.

 

[Matt Leaf]

They do make great stuff. Apple that is. Granted there marketing is awesome too.

It is totally possible to go out there and challenge Apple, I believe.

You just have to have the same ethic. Go even further.

Like the Alan Kay quote, an interplay of hardware and software.

If another company was to go out and build a desktop OS, that is really the starting point.

That's going to be very hard tho.

But, it's a really exciting time to be involved with software development.

The key advantage is trumping Apple where they already excel. Fact is a Mac comes with a deluxe software package - that's what you pay for when you buy a Mac. Garageband and iMovie and all that isn't free - it's included in the price.

The only way anyone's ever gonna step up to Apple is if they can offer a software package that competes - as much as people think it's all about the design.

Sure, design counts. But you don't use the design everyday, so to speak. You use the software.

I think the way to step up is to start with software, and move to hardware as the business model progresses.

If, for instance, someone wanted to install an OS on a Mac that was better than OSX, that would be something, right?

I think the way to do it is the same way Apple did it - go aggressively for the pro market.

You release an OS that has everything OSX doesn't have. Pro Apps. Not baby beginner ones.

You need killer software that all pro's want to use that demolishes all killer software out there at the moment.

Or, you somehow get the best software developers out there to bundle into your OS package.

A tall order I guess.

You could start as a work-horse company. Tower PC's with killer software that demolish everything it becomes industry standard - then you start to diversify.

Because OSX has become consumerized anyway.

I've always said, if Linux had killer Pro Apps, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

 

[ajvizzgamer101]

What's so magical about a computer? Its a box of metal, wires, and plastic. Running software written by people.

No magic invovled.

If you mean why Macs are magical...what can a,mac do that a pc can't?

Magical: beautiful or delightful in such a way as to seem removed from everyday life.

That's how an Apple product feels, wouldn't you say so yourself? That's why we have people burying heads into there iPhone screens.

 

[KnightWRX]

Magical: beautiful or delightful in such a way as to seem removed from everyday life.

That's how an Apple product feels, wouldn't you say so yourself? That's why we have people burying heads into there iPhone screens.

I wouldn't say so. OS X and Apple products don't "feel" any different to me than my old Dell laptops with Linux.

And I see people burying their heads into whatever phone they have, not just iPhones. It's the SMS Messaging/Facebook that makes them bury their heads, not iOS or the iPhone.

 

[ugahairydawgs]

Apple is successful because they have one hell of a marketing team. They're so good they even have you regurgitating their "magical" line.

Truth of the matter....OS X computers are no "better" than Windows 7 computers. iOS devices are no "better" than those running Android, Android-based OS, or Windows Phone. All of the operating systems mentioned above are good and serve users in different ways. Its only when you factor in what you need to do that you get to the point where you can figure out which one best fits your individual needs.

 

[roadbloc]

Lol. People thinking Bose products are of any quality.

 

[KnightWRX]

Lol. People thinking Bose products are of any quality.

Telling when you see how thinks of BOSE as quality and what their view on the tech industry is in other threads...

Research, facts, some people just don't care.

 

[ajvizzgamer101]

I wouldn't say so. OS X and Apple products don't "feel" any different to me than my old Dell laptops with Linux.

And I see people burying their heads into whatever phone they have, not just iPhones. It's the SMS Messaging/Facebook that makes them bury their heads, not iOS or the iPhone.

Wow! Really, you don't feel a difference from Windows/Linux machine to a Mac? I heard people say "Apple products are better but not worth spending extra for" but i never heard anyone say "Macs are no more special than Windows/Linux Machines."

I got a Macbook Pro because I could not stand another day with my Dell running Windows. Design is very very important because with out good design the product is useless and a lot of these companies didn't know good design. Apple mastered it better than any other technology company. I'd say most people who use an Apple product say the experience is far greater than other comparable products.

 

[KnightWRX]

Wow! Really, you don't feel a difference from Windows/Linux machine to a Mac? I heard people say "Apple products are better but not worth spending extra for" but i never heard anyone say "Macs are no more special than Windows/Linux Machines."

I don't feel a difference no. It's a keyboard, a trackpad, commands to type in, output that gets generated.

Computers are tools. As long as they do the work I need out of them, I don't find them all that different from each other. Mostly it's just commands that are differently named, icons that are differently placed, etc.. The feeling is the same.

There is no magic, no "special" feel to Macs, they are a tool like any other tool.

I got a Macbook Pro because I could not stand another day with my Dell running Windows. Design is very very important because with out good design the product is useless and a lot of these companies didn't know good design. Apple mastered it better than any other technology company. I'd say most people who use an Apple product say the experience is far greater than other comparable products.

I'm sorry to hear, I can be as productive using any laptop/desktop/tablet/phone. I guess I'm just versatile that way. It's not the tool so much for me as the user, myself, that's the limit to what I can do. Writing C or Shell script or typing in UNIX commands is pretty much the same on any keyboard from any kind of ssh client I can get my hands on to.

Heck, I use the same software (Chrome, Gimp, ssh, vim) on whatever OS I'm on.

 

[ajvizzgamer101]

I don't feel a difference no. It's a keyboard, a trackpad, commands to type in, output that gets generated.

Computers are tools. As long as they do the work I need out of them, I don't find them all that different from each other. Mostly it's just commands that are differently named, icons that are differently placed, etc.. The feeling is the same.

There is no magic, no "special" feel to Macs, they are a tool like any other tool.



I'm sorry to hear, I can be as productive using any laptop/desktop/tablet/phone. I guess I'm just versatile that way. It's not the tool so much for me as the user, myself, that's the limit to what I can do. Writing C or Shell script or typing in UNIX commands is pretty much the same on any keyboard from any kind of ssh client I can get my hands on to.

Heck, I use the same software (Chrome, Gimp, ssh, vim) on whatever OS I'm on.

They are tools. You want the most well crafted one of the bunch, Apple is the most well crafted tool. You don't pick up the dull ugly tool tool, you pick up the shiny sharp tool.

 

[KnightWRX]

They are tools. You want the most well crafted one of the bunch, Apple is the most well crafted tool. You don't pick up the dull ugly tool tool, you pick up the shiny sharp tool.

I guess some people need "magical" tools. Me I get work done. A screw driver is a screw driver, a laptop is a laptop.

 

[ChazUK]

I guess some people need "magical" tools. Me I get work done. A screw driver is a screw driver, a laptop is a laptop.

I'd like to see his magical tool survive the beating my work Toughbook has been through...

 

[G51989]

Wow! Really, you don't feel a difference from Windows/Linux machine to a Mac? I heard people say "Apple products are better but not worth spending extra for" but i never heard anyone say "Macs are no more special than Windows/Linux Machines."

Macs are no more special than Windows or Linux machines, its just an operating system. They are tools used to do a job. Each operating system has its advantages and disadvantages. I personally perfer windows for most things, largest software libary, its pretty much compatible with everything, and runs on a massive amount of hardware. For my daily computing tasks at home, I use my iMac. Though I would not try to do anything serious with it. it might just melt.

I got a Macbook Pro because I could not stand another day with my Dell running Windows. Design is very very important because with out good design the product is useless and a lot of these companies didn't know good design. Apple mastered it better than any other technology company. I'd say most people who use an Apple product say the experience is far greater than other comparable products

Design is improtant, and the PC OEMs, inculding Dell make some awesome laptops. Ever see their rugged books? A Macbook pro couldn't withstand 1/20th of what a Rugged book can.

Performance is also important. And for lots of Applications, Macs lack that.

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I'd like to see his magical tool survive the beating my work Toughbook has been through...

Never owned a toughbook, but I got assigned one a couple times over the years, depending on the site I had to take a look at, they all seemed like you can run them over with a small car ( In fact, some of them, you CAN )

 

[ajvizzgamer101]

I am going to have to disagree with you. At the core, all computers are the same but Apple takes the time to improve the user experience which makes their experience magical.