Why are people using their MacBook Airs on battery?

[AlixSPQR]

Because battery chemistry is not an exact thing from day to day and dependent on a lot of variables.

So, these apps are inaccurately measuring something that in itself is not an exact thing?

Just use something like Coconut Battery and follow your battery history over time and it should be obvious that all battery readings need to be viewed as flawed. You'll see things like your battery degrading rapidly to 90%, but then regain a few percentage points, and then fluctuate +1% or -1% for the next 18 months.

Your battery isn't losing health and gaining it back. Either your earlier battery readings were significantly wrong, your current ones are significantly wrong, or they're all somewhat wrong.

Does Coconut Battery use its own statistics or the built-in diagnostics from Apple?

 

[ctdonath]

Modern "planned obsolescence" amounts to: by the time the battery practically dies, you're going to want a new product anyway. Phones, EV cars, computers, whatever gadget ... most are built to last well beyond anyone wanting it, new model costing little more than practical value of being stuck with a now-old machine. $760 for a refurbished "practically new" MBA M1 vs ... how much does one expect to pay for a seriously used years-old MBA, whatever battery condition?

 

[joeblow7777]

Each time you put a cycle count on it, it lowers the resale value of your Air. It also shortens the lifespan of both the internal battery and the laptop. Simple way to prevent it, is by buying and using a battery pack on it when needed. I did this, got an Anker prime 27650mah portable battery bank and for any times that I need to use the Air on battery, I run it off here instead so that I don't put any wear on the internal battery. Much cheaper to buy a new battery bank than a new Air.

Just curious why more don't do this?

Because it's a laptop computer and that's literally what it's made for?

I'd rather just use the device I've purchased as it was designed to be used, and not worry about babying it for the sake of resale value. Most of my devices I usually just give to family or friends when I'm done with them anyway, or I sell it for just some token price to someone who needs it. I don't purchase electronics with the expectation on getting anything back for them.

Furthermore, not using the battery also causes degradation, as maintaining a 100% charge all the time is not optimal.

 

[montuori]

Li-Ion batteries are generally only good for 500ish full cycles before the capacity really takes a hit. [...]

I hope we soon see Li-Po4 batteries in laptops.

Is not using a Li-Po4 battery substantially better than not using a Li-Ion battery?

 

[BigBlur]

Even though many don't agree but there are a lot of people out there who ask for the devices cycle count when inquiring about your for sale item.

For example, I sold my M1 iPad Pro 3 months ago. The girl asked about the battery health condition and how many cycles it had. I told her but she asked me for proof of it. So I had to physically show her in person how many cycles it had and what health the battery was still at. Then she bought it right after at my asking price, no questions asked. Had I not been able to prove it to her, she likely wouldn't have bought it.

So many buyers do care about battery health and the cycle count.

You didn't answer fatTribble's question. How much more would a used Mac with 95-100% battery health resell for compared to one that's something like 85% from normal use? I find it hard to believe that it'd still be worth more than the cost of going through two or three of these power banks.

I mean, yeah...some buyers may care about battery health and cycle count. But there are also others that don't. If I were to ask someone about battery health and cycle count, it would be to make sure it's priced appropriately...not necessarily because I want a good one.

Personally, if I had the option to choose between a couple of old/used Macs with the same specs - one that costs a few hundred more due to a good battery; and one that costs less due to a used battery. I'd probably go with the one that costs less because I use it plugged in all the time anyway. So now we're back to the first question. Did you really make any more money by using power banks and keeping it in good health? Someone will eventually buy it regardless of what condition it's in as long as it's a reasonable price.

 

[Khojmdn]

Each time you put a cycle count on it, it lowers the resale value of your Air. It also shortens the lifespan of both the internal battery and the laptop. Simple way to prevent it, is by buying and using a battery pack on it when needed. I did this, got an Anker prime 27650mah portable battery bank and for any times that I need to use the Air on battery, I run it off here instead so that I don't put any wear on the internal battery. Much cheaper to buy a new battery bank than a new Air.

Just curious why more don't do this?

Why are you riding your car? Mileage degrades the engine, battery, can cause rust...

 

[DeepSix]

You didn't answer fatTribble's question. How much more would a used Mac with 95-100% battery health resell for compared to one that's something like 85% from normal use? I find it hard to believe that it'd still be worth more than the cost of going through two or three of these power banks.

I mean, yeah...some buyers may care about battery health and cycle count. But there are also others that don't. If I were to ask someone about battery health and cycle count, it would be to make sure they're not overpricing it...not necessarily because I want a good one.

Personally, if I had the option to buy a couple of old/used Macs with the same specs - one that costs a few hundred more due to a good battery; and one that costs less due to a used battery. I'd probably go with the one that costs less because I use it plugged in all the time anyway. So now we're back to the first question. Did you really make any more money by using power banks and keeping it in good health? Someone will eventually buy it regardless of what condition it's in and priced appropriately.

I think a used Mac with a near perfect condition battery is worth at least a few hundred dollars more than one that has been run down. That's for the entry level to mid tier based models. On the top spec models, I think you would get even more back.

Well one battery bank of this size would last me easily 4-5 years. I definitely won't be going through more than one, if even that during that time. My previous Anker bank of this capacity only outputs 45 watts which takes too long to charge the Air. It's terrible. So if say I do happen to use the Air on battery, I now have a battery bank that can top it off on the go when needed. So that's a big perk of carrying it around.

It's also a considerable upgrade over my 45 watt Anker bank for several reasons. My 45 watt bank only has about 50 full cycles on it in the over 4 years of owning it, so it still has plenty of life left. I will just use it for charging other things now that I have the Prime bank. Honestly portable battery banks are one of the best devices anyone can buy for their laptop, especially if they're always on the go, it's cheap insurance. I spent $175 on it, so split that over 4-5 years and the cost is nothing. And I don't have to replace the MacBooks internal battery. You can't always rely on the laptop battery. What if the laptop battery just all of a sudden dies on you? Then you can't use your laptop at all.

I'm 100% a believer that you will get higher resale value when you have a better condition battery.

 

[DeepSix]

Is not using a Li-Po4 battery substantially better than not using a Li-Ion battery?

Li-Po4 batteries are much better than Li-Ion as they can take 3000 full cycles before they drop to 80% capacity. It's only the matter of time before we see these in laptops. I would pay more for a laptop that has a Li-Po4 battery in it, and I just may even use it on it's internal battery because it has 3x the lifespan of a Li-Ion battery. So in 5 years when I resale the laptop, the internal battery will still be good.

 

[Juuro]

if you are already carrying an ext drive, mouse, SD card reader, USB hub, dongles, lights, mousepad with you (which most people are).

Who the hell does carry all this **** on a daily basis in addition to their MacBook? I don't know anybody who carries an external drive or a usb hub with them.

I have a 2nd Anker power bank

I may buy a 2nd prime battery

I always have a 10,000mah Anker bank

I also have two Anker C300's

So let me get this right: You carry around more ore less every Powerbank Anker has to offer. And you each one of them charges only one of your devices AND you have some of them twice to keep the cycle count down. You know that this might become an infinite loop? 🤦‍♂️

Almost everyone carries a water bottle with them throughout the day.

What? No!? Do you live in an Oasis in the Sahara? Or maybe you are a mail man who is walking around for long hours to deliver stuff. I doubt both because you seem to have the need to sit in front of a computer for many hours a day. Also even if you carry around a water bottle, most people don't want to carry two of them.

Okay I would say carrying an external hard drive is a must just to minimize the writes on the internal drive

I have an old MacBook Air from 2016. It has its first battery and its first SSD. Both are fine. What's not fine is the slow Intel chip. But that one was slow right from the start.

to keep the cycle count down on the Anker battery

It's getting just more and more ridiculous.

but why not cut back on the wear and tear on the internal drive since we can by using an external one?

Because people don't want to run around with a whole computer store in their backpack if they could bring use their MacBook Air and nothing else and have a better experience!?

Also of course people ask for battery cycle count. Because that's kind of a comparable number. But in reality it is not really comparable because batteries break at very different cycle counts and there are man more factors for battery health. It's just something you can simply read from the system information and have some kind of number. I bet your buyer would have bought your iPad no matter the count. As long as the count was not crazy high or unbelievable low. So if you have cycle count that's in a normal range for the time people don't care.
I sold around ten Apple devices with batteries in the last ten years and most of the time people asked for the cycle count but no matter what it was they didn't really care after I told them. I never took any measures to keep that count low.

 

[Juuro]

I think a used Mac with a near perfect condition battery is worth at least a few hundred dollars more than one that has been run down. That's for the entry level to mid tier based models. On the top spec models, I think you would get even more back.

I'm 100% a believer that you will get higher resale value when you have a better condition battery.

You shouldn't draw conclusions about others from yourself. I'm sure people don't care that much. Of course if the cycle count is especially high you might get less. But if it is in a normal range the difference will be not noticeable for sure!

 

[diamornte]

Each time you put a cycle count on it, it lowers the resale value of your Air. It also shortens the lifespan of both the internal battery and the laptop. Simple way to prevent it, is by buying and using a battery pack on it when needed. I did this, got an Anker prime 27650mah portable battery bank and for any times that I need to use the Air on battery, I run it off here instead so that I don't put any wear on the internal battery. Much cheaper to buy a new battery bank than a new Air.

Just curious why more don't do this?

Why does this matter to you, when others' business is not your own? People will do as they please and the sooner you realize that, the happier you would be.

 

[Sezel]

I think a used Mac with a near perfect condition battery is worth at least a few hundred dollars more than one that has been run down. That's for the entry level to mid tier based models. On the top spec models, I think you would get even more back.

Well one battery bank of this size would last me easily 4-5 years. I definitely won't be going through more than one, if even that during that time. My previous Anker bank of this capacity only outputs 45 watts which takes too long to charge the Air. It's terrible. So if say I do happen to use the Air on battery, I now have a battery bank that can top it off on the go when needed. So that's a big perk of carrying it around.

It's also a considerable upgrade over my 45 watt Anker bank for several reasons. My 45 watt bank only has about 50 full cycles on it in the over 4 years of owning it, so it still has plenty of life left. I will just use it for charging other things now that I have the Prime bank. Honestly portable battery banks are one of the best devices anyone can buy for their laptop, especially if they're always on the go, it's cheap insurance. I spent $175 on it, so split that over 4-5 years and the cost is nothing. And I don't have to replace the MacBooks internal battery. You can't always rely on the laptop battery. What if the laptop battery just all of a sudden dies on you? Then you can't use your laptop at all.

I'm 100% a believer that you will get higher resale value when you have a better condition battery.

Better to use the device freely rather than constantly living in the fear of loosing the resale value.
A higher resale value is in your mind only and there is no fixed retail price for a used device. You will get the price whatever the buyer is willing and the seller agreed to. It's not like Apple price that you will get for ex. $1299 for sure.

Also how you decide the price of a device with 96% battery capacity vs 97% and by how much ? $100?

What if after selling your device which you pampered by disregarding your own time at a resale value that you liked and someone else sold the same device with a little bit worse condition at a better price than yours. How will you cope then? Open a new post?

 

[darkpaw]

Don't always believe specs, many manufacturers these days exaggerate specs on their websites. Im not saying that this isn't true of a Macbook internal battery but has there been physical proof that it can handle 1000 full cycles from 100%-0% and still retain 80% of its capacity?

If Apple are lying on their website, that's a massive issue, so I'm going to say they're telling the truth.

Besides, if it happened as you said the user would be within their rights to claim a free battery replacement within the year because Apple say they will replace any battery free of charge for any of their devices where the battery charge capability goes below 80% within one year after purchase. In your example, the user could've done this a month or more before the end of the year.

Honestly, at this point, I think you're making stats up.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Decades ago (before today's excellent Apple battery management) those of us using laptops mostly with mains power available were advised that to optimize laptop battery life it was best to just use the batteries like a subway commuter might, intermittently taking them off mains power to use the internal battery. Today I opine just let Apple battery management do its thing. Any suggestion to carry a battery pack to prevent MBA battery cycling is absurd.

 

[john123]

I think a used Mac with a near perfect condition battery is worth at least a few hundred dollars more than one that has been run down. That's for the entry level to mid tier based models. On the top spec models, I think you would get even more back.

Well one battery bank of this size would last me easily 4-5 years. I definitely won't be going through more than one, if even that during that time. My previous Anker bank of this capacity only outputs 45 watts which takes too long to charge the Air. It's terrible. So if say I do happen to use the Air on battery, I now have a battery bank that can top it off on the go when needed. So that's a big perk of carrying it around.

It's also a considerable upgrade over my 45 watt Anker bank for several reasons. My 45 watt bank only has about 50 full cycles on it in the over 4 years of owning it, so it still has plenty of life left. I will just use it for charging other things now that I have the Prime bank. Honestly portable battery banks are one of the best devices anyone can buy for their laptop, especially if they're always on the go, it's cheap insurance. I spent $175 on it, so split that over 4-5 years and the cost is nothing. And I don't have to replace the MacBooks internal battery. You can't always rely on the laptop battery. What if the laptop battery just all of a sudden dies on you? Then you can't use your laptop at all.

I'm 100% a believer that you will get higher resale value when you have a better condition battery.

As someone who has sold over 20 Macs on the open market, all but two of which were laptops, I can definitively say “no.”

People buying used are looking for a deal. I have literally never been asked about the battery health by literally hundreds of people.

The idea that you’d get a few hundred more is just kind of nutty when you think about it. Anyone with that level of interest in perfection is going to buy new.

I’m sure there are people out there whose behavior doesn’t match what I described. But they are a tiny minority.

 

[kamikazeeMC]

Imagine going out of your way for the benefit of the next owner.

If I were to buy a second hand laptop, the battery would prob be the least of my worries. I would prefer everything else to in great condition case/no dents/scratches etc and get the computer cheaper because of the run down battery. Then replace it myself/service (if needed) and have a fresh one.

Just had a look through Apple it costs AU$265 for a M1 Air.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

I think a used Mac with a near perfect condition battery is worth at least a few hundred dollars more than one that has been run down. That's for the entry level to mid tier based models. On the top spec models, I think you would get even more back.

Well one battery bank of this size would last me easily 4-5 years. I definitely won't be going through more than one, if even that during that time. My previous Anker bank of this capacity only outputs 45 watts which takes too long to charge the Air. It's terrible. So if say I do happen to use the Air on battery, I now have a battery bank that can top it off on the go when needed. So that's a big perk of carrying it around.

It's also a considerable upgrade over my 45 watt Anker bank for several reasons. My 45 watt bank only has about 50 full cycles on it in the over 4 years of owning it, so it still has plenty of life left. I will just use it for charging other things now that I have the Prime bank. Honestly portable battery banks are one of the best devices anyone can buy for their laptop, especially if they're always on the go, it's cheap insurance. I spent $175 on it, so split that over 4-5 years and the cost is nothing. And I don't have to replace the MacBooks internal battery. You can't always rely on the laptop battery. What if the laptop battery just all of a sudden dies on you? Then you can't use your laptop at all.

I'm 100% a believer that you will get higher resale value when you have a better condition battery.

So you don’t have a source whatsoever, right?
We need to get OP in a room with the “add a battery to the Mac mini” guy; last one standing’s opinion wins.

 

[john123]

To illustrate how silly this idea is, let's take a look at the prices for "new" vs refurb on the Apple Store on entry level Air 13" and Pro 16" models. Keep in mind that Apple Store refurb prices are often significantly higher than the prices for units sold by third party outfits.

Air 13"
M3 / 8GB / 256GB: $1099
M2 / 8GB / 256GB: $999
M2 Refurb / 8GB / 256GB: $849
M1 Refurb 8GB / 256GB: $759

Pro 16"
M3 / 18 GB / 512GB: $2499
M3 Refurb / 18GB / 512GB: $2119
M2 Refurb / 16GB / 512GB: $2049

I'm curious how someone might think battery life could possibly factor into the used market more than a tiny bit. What price do you think a "good" battery would sell for? What price do you think a "bad" battery would sell for? In what world could it possibly be a "few hundred" of difference?

I'll save you the trouble. You're not gonna find a cogent and consistent way to come up with numbers that make this narrative make sense.

OK, so fine. I put entry level configs there. What about the idea that you have more wiggle room for it to matter on higher end configurations? Well, I'll save folks the trouble with that too. There's not a cogent price narrative there either.

 

[john123]

So you don’t have a source whatsoever, right?

I'd be really interested to know if the OP has ever purchased a used MBP. OP, have you?

 

[TechnoMonk]

Better to use the device freely rather than constantly living in the fear of loosing the resale value.
A higher resale value is in your mind only and there is no fixed retail price for a used device. You will get the price whatever the buyer is willing and the seller agreed to. It's not like Apple price that you will get for ex. $1299 for sure.

Also how you decide the price of a device with 96% battery capacity vs 97% and by how much ? $100?

What if after selling your device which you pampered by disregarding your own time at a resale value that you liked and someone else sold the same device with a little bit worse condition at a better price than yours. How will you cope then? Open a new post?

The value of a device shouldn’t be primarily resale value. Value of the device is in usage, my MBP/MBA is worth many times the price I paid. It’s primary work horse for me. Resale value is just icing on the cake. If you are buying devices you don’t need, it’s a different conversation, and resale value could be a major factor.

 

[martint235]

I don't know about that, I think you notice the downsides right away. If you drain the battery everyday for a year, it will be at like 75% battery health.

Battery packs are very portable and don't add much more to the Air especially if you are already carrying an ext drive, mouse, SD card reader, USB hub, dongles, lights, mousepad with you (which most people are).

I’m not sure most people are carrying that lot around with them. on the occasions that my MBA leaves the house it goes solo.

 

[mclld]

Why use your car like normal, would be better long term to put Fred Flinstone style pedals in it

 

[DeepSix]

I'd be really interested to know if the OP has ever purchased a used MBP. OP, have you?

Yes I've bought one Mac Pro in the past and I bought it brand new. I don't buy used laptops for hygienic purposes. Used keyboards is like buying used underwear. I'll pass on that. But also if I buy a new laptop I need that cycle count at 0.

 

[smirking]

Does Coconut Battery use its own statistics or the built-in diagnostics from Apple?

Any number you get out of a MacBookPro is coming from Apple in some way. Coconut Battery has no way of accessing the battery itself. It's just a different way of presenting information that's being given by your computer's hardware.

 

[Boeingfan]

Each time you put a cycle count on it, it lowers the resale value of your Air. It also shortens the lifespan of both the internal battery and the laptop. Simple way to prevent it, is by buying and using a battery pack on it when needed. I did this, got an Anker prime 27650mah portable battery bank and for any times that I need to use the Air on battery, I run it off here instead so that I don't put any wear on the internal battery. Much cheaper to buy a new battery bank than a new Air.

Just curious why more don't do this?

Because not everyone uses them with their main priority being resale value, rather, using the device as a portable computer.