We're in a thread speculating why so many people are still using MacBooks that are more than 5 years old, so leave your accusations of hypotheticals at the door. And by the way, the "new keyboard" you love is the scissor switch Apple gave us back after finally admitting - after many years and lawsuits - that the butterfly keyboard was a mistake, so I hardly see how you loving the new keyboard is relevant to my claim that the butterfly keyboard may have hurt Apple's market share relative to what it would have been if they hadn't gone down that route. Glad your personal experience was that enjoyed the Touch Bar, but I would note that Apple has also finally realized that was a mistake, as evidenced by the fact they have removed it from their ENTIRE line up. So perhaps it is you that is making up theories.
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Why are so many people using out of date Macbooks?
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Feel that. I held off my Mac upgrade's only to be royally screwed by the 2016 MBP design which where not only hapless worse they where unreliable. With no alternative, Windows it was at some cost or stop work...
Apple Silicon has to some extent brought me back, however I wont invest deeply as Mac's are now are fundamentally unrepairable. TBH the cost is not the issue, it simply irks me that it's such a deliberate & wasteful process yet Apple bleats on about the environment. Outside of their glass tower Apple very obviously could care very less and is more than happy to contribute to the landfills..
So as opposed to purchasing multiple high tier products I now purchase the lowest tier possible, fewest numbers as possible as it minimises risk/waste. For all the prowess of "Pro" there are actually very few professional's on the platform and Apple has brought that on itself. TBH outside of the positive influencer's I think that's exactly what Apple want's so they can get the sap's to fork over the cash for more spec than they will likely ever need at elevated cost...
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Desktops and Laptops are not users primary device these days. So for most users they take a backseat to their iPhone which they have and use probably 80% of the time. If you just use it to check mail in gmail on a supported browser and type the occasional document in Word 2011, it meets their needs. Most people don’t curate playlists and organize photos anymore. If they want share a photo, the share it on Facebook or Instagram.
The group you see in the Macrumors forums going crazy over M3 Max are a small
minority. Also, Apple made some solid computers. The fact that my vintage collectors PowerBook G4’s running Mac OS X Puma and Jaguar still work is amazing. A 10 year old retina MacBook Pro from 2013 should not be surprised. In fact, I think Apple could still maybe supporting them with fundamental security updates. It would be a win-win too, larger user base and less ewaste.
The group you see in the Macrumors forums going crazy over M3 Max are a small
minority. Also, Apple made some solid computers. The fact that my vintage collectors PowerBook G4’s running Mac OS X Puma and Jaguar still work is amazing. A 10 year old retina MacBook Pro from 2013 should not be surprised. In fact, I think Apple could still maybe supporting them with fundamental security updates. It would be a win-win too, larger user base and less ewaste.
I’ve seen a lot of teachers, journalists and lecturers/conferees using their now no longer supported MacBooks.
And it’s interesting that most of this people using outdated machines, are using the 12” MacBook. If they need a portable Mac, a really lightweight MacBook, they don’t have an alternative nowadays. That’s why Apple needs to release a 12” MacBook again.
Aside from that, generally, macs keep working as a tool for what they were conceived. Remember that macOS 12 Monterey is still getting security patches. I’m using a 2014 Mac mini on Monterey because it still works pretty well for what I need it too (except CPU intensive tasks), and I can wait until Monterey no longer gets security updates. Then, I’ll probably get an M4 Mac mini or an M4 12” MacBook, and use it for another 10 years.
And it’s interesting that most of this people using outdated machines, are using the 12” MacBook. If they need a portable Mac, a really lightweight MacBook, they don’t have an alternative nowadays. That’s why Apple needs to release a 12” MacBook again.
Aside from that, generally, macs keep working as a tool for what they were conceived. Remember that macOS 12 Monterey is still getting security patches. I’m using a 2014 Mac mini on Monterey because it still works pretty well for what I need it too (except CPU intensive tasks), and I can wait until Monterey no longer gets security updates. Then, I’ll probably get an M4 Mac mini or an M4 12” MacBook, and use it for another 10 years.
Or even worse, 25 out of 25 and critical file is stored on that disk.
Without having more quantified information about this document (page size, file size, etc), I'm guessing it's just Microsoft Word being Microsoft Word. Microsoft Word is not a good program for large documents in my experience
. I know people with older laptops are not using Microsoft Word for these edge cases.Now we can understand how a new MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD can seem like a revelation to many users whose 2012 MacBook finally dies.
Actually, in my experience, those 8GB of RAM in older machines are more “capable”, with the lack of a better word. Sure, they are slower RAM modules, but the pressure doesn’t ramp up as quickly as in modern machines.
I don’t know the exact reason, maybe it’s because older MacBooks have lower resolution, or maybe it’s because the integrated Nvidia/Intel graphics needed less VRAM, and the 8GB of Apple Silicon are shared by the GPU, the CPU and maybe even something else, but in my experience, older machines need less RAM.
The 8GB of RAM on my former 2010 MacBook Pro, and on my current system, an Intel Haswell 2014 Mac Mini, give me a good/decent performance, staying almost always on the green zone of pressure. While during my tests with an M1 MacBook Air and an M2 MacBook Air, both of them with 8GB of RAM, they quickly get into the yellow/red zone of memory pressure with the same tasks. Sometimes, they went into the red pressure zone and dropped to yellow after increasing the swap file, and then after a few moments, it would get into the red zone again. I even made screenshots because it shocked me, but no idea if I still have them around.
Also, I had the opportunity of testing one of the last Intel MacBook Pros, a 2017 MBP with an Intel Kaby Lake Core i5, again with just 8GB, and I noticed that those 8GB didn’t give me the same performance as on my, by then, current 2010 MBP. I noticed how quickly it went into the yellow zone although in 2017 I didn’t pay much attention to the swap file, so don’t know if the swap usage was as aggressive as in the Apple Silicon macs I’ve tried later.
All of this is just based in my own experience with the computers I have owned (2010 MBP, 2014 Mac mini) and the computers I’ve bought to later return because some flaw. Of course, if I had wanted to keep any of those machines I tried, I would have returned them and ordered a 16GB model. The reason I’ve always bought the 8GB machines, is because those were the only ones available in retail stores, easy to return.
As my rule of thumb, the newer the machine, the more RAM it uses. I don’t know if the Operating System version has something to do with it, but I clearly see a pattern, and nowadays I wouldn’t buy anything with less than 16GB of RAM.
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According to my understanding, there are few points to consider.
1. People are buying new phones as most of the routine work, email, messaging, Skype, MS Teams, Zoom, etc., have moved to mobile platform. Hence, more stuff is done via phone rather than the Laptop (Mac or Windows)
2. People use their laptop mostly for daily document processing or multimedia/ video editing. Here the market splits. People using laptop for routine work don’t need new or powerful laptops. But people who are into multimedia / coding need bigger screens - higher processing power, multiple accessories, desk space etc., therefore, no pick and go stuff.
Those who can afford a Mac normally switch to heavier machines e.g., 16 inch MacBook pros (not that portable) or Mac Studio. Therefore, we don’t see these machines on the go.
People like me who just like enjoy the machine are reluctant to upgrade because of Apple’s evil tactics. Let me explain it : 8 Gb ram is not enough for daily routine. The system therefore uses a part of the SSD as RAM, (larger Swap File) degrading it much sooner than expected. SSDs are not for random read and write very frequently as RAM
Therefore, SSD degraded faster - pay Apple a hefty amount or replace your machine sooner than needed.
Exactly my thoughts and very on point. Actually, the SSD degradation is one of my fears the day I finally buy a new MacBook/Mac mini. So I’ll probably go with at least 1TB and enough RAM to minimize swapping.
As for your point number 1, I enjoy macOS as much as anyone, it’s really my favorite operating system, but honestly most of my email, surfing, purchases, blogging and communications, and listening to music now that I have Apple Music, are done 90% of the time on either my iPhone SE 3 or my M2 iPad Pro. That’s why I still don’t have the urge to replace my 2014 Mac mini (although Sonoma is very tempting).
On top of accompanying macOS being lighter, as well as general computing environment is not processing-power-hungry. Applications are not that resource-intensive and workloads are probably a bit less complex.
Yeah, exactly why I bought 16GB/1TB machine. but that still creates tons of swaps as you can see here. It's really not that hard to stress 16GB of RAM, let alone 8GB. My general responsiveness isn't that great either, though miles better than my old MacBook Air 11" 2014 with a much weaker processor and less RAM.
I’ve seen this idea expressed by different people. I find it very odd. Are office workers using their phones and tablets as their primary work devices? I doubt it.
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People would rather save on their Mac in order to buy a better iPhone. The older Macs do the job for them. It's not like older iPhones don't, but the Mac is not the primary way to take photos and video, use social media, listen to music, etc. so there's also less psychological appeal to it. iPhone checks many of the psychological need boxes.
Wow, thank you for that screenshot Shirasaki, I assume all those memory grabber tabs are from Safari, right? Or are you using Chrome? If those are Safari tabs, Apple needs to rethink the way Safari works... or at least improve its efficiency.
Meanwhile, on my old mac I'm having no RAM issues (I booted it few hours ago):
Its mostly all been said in this thread already, but 1, they already own them and they still work, 2, they have loads of nice little features the new ones don’t, 3, windows extends life far beyond mac os, 4, cheaply replaceable in case of damage or theft, 5, maximum value per dollar for old one vs minimum value per dollar new, 6, old Apple built those things upgradable and serviceable to last, and last they do. 7. Apple hasnt made a 17” MBP since 2011, or a notebook that can hold 16TB of replaceable SSD storage since 2012. 8. Those owners have more important things in their lives than material possessions and acquiring an m1 chip in their computer does nothing for them at all.
Why does it matter? The reason is not going to be the same for each case you encountered.
What you see for yourself is your own observation and subject to confirmation bias.
It’s kind of like you spot one Tesla and then each time you see a Tesla, it seems like there are a lot of them because you are focusing in on noticing them more than all the other cars.
What you see for yourself is your own observation and subject to confirmation bias.
It’s kind of like you spot one Tesla and then each time you see a Tesla, it seems like there are a lot of them because you are focusing in on noticing them more than all the other cars.
Late 2013 MacBoob Pro 13” bought in March 2023: 16 gb RAM, 512 gb SSD. Still fast enough for what I use it, still able to run Football Manager 2024. No need to upgrade it.
Fresh boot tends to now show yellow or red pressure. Based on what I see there is no swap as well.
My screenshot is a macOS that’s been running 43 days 16 hours without any restart. Yes, most memory hoggers are Safari tabs. And people say Safari is the most advanced browser on the planet…
I do have a chrome open in the background but mostly idle.
If those car manufacturers go even more evil, they would lock driving function behind a subscription. They would include a complimentary subscription upon purchase, and you need to pay them to drive your car.
Current user of a 2015 13”. Light user, just web surfing at this point. Work is done on a company provided Dell. Only very recently has it started feeling slow with Mail, Safari, and Chrome open, mainly due to memory usage now that I keep Chrome open for some things (YouTube, Yelp).
But considering my issue is with memory usage on the web, and I already have 16GB of RAM, I’d have to drop $1.5k to match that spec. And because I don’t believe in a fanless computer, that minimum jumps to $2k, and the kicker is that for $2k, it only matches what my current laptop has in terms of the spec that matters to my use case.
(I kept my 12” PowerBook for eight years, and this 13” rMBP is going on eight years, and both saw/are seeing increased fan usage as even lightweight duties start to become harder. Less optimized software, more paging to disk, etc)
Sure, better screen, battery life, and most other things, but it mostly sits in its dock, and when it goes out, the battery life is still more than adequate for an afternoon of preening at the coffee shop.
”Hey, I see you’re wearing last year’s t-shirt. Don’t you know that this year’s fits better, breathes 5% better in certain conditions, and the color lasts for 3% more wash cycles? Why haven’t you upgraded yet? … hey, don’t you walk away from me!”
But considering my issue is with memory usage on the web, and I already have 16GB of RAM, I’d have to drop $1.5k to match that spec. And because I don’t believe in a fanless computer, that minimum jumps to $2k, and the kicker is that for $2k, it only matches what my current laptop has in terms of the spec that matters to my use case.
(I kept my 12” PowerBook for eight years, and this 13” rMBP is going on eight years, and both saw/are seeing increased fan usage as even lightweight duties start to become harder. Less optimized software, more paging to disk, etc)
Sure, better screen, battery life, and most other things, but it mostly sits in its dock, and when it goes out, the battery life is still more than adequate for an afternoon of preening at the coffee shop.
”Hey, I see you’re wearing last year’s t-shirt. Don’t you know that this year’s fits better, breathes 5% better in certain conditions, and the color lasts for 3% more wash cycles? Why haven’t you upgraded yet? … hey, don’t you walk away from me!”
This place would turn into a ghost town and a lot of therapists would be flooded with new clients if the group of people you mentioned turned into normal every day tech people.
I wouldn't even joke about that, soon as self driving cars are mainstream just a matter of time before that comes. Personally I'd rather walk...
TBH I'm sick to the back teeth of subscription services. Made a conscious decision last year and cancelled the lot, nor will I engage with any company that uses such tactics...
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