Why did Samsung make the fingerprint sensor on the S-5 so crappy compared to the 5s?

[kdarling]

^^^^^^^^

That chart by BI about number of accounts is interesting, but fails to address what kind of account holders and purchases are involved.

What people are currently buying using iTunes are things like 99 cent apps, music, etc... and the buyer could be a kid with a gift card.

What people are buying via Amazon or PayPal are everything from the above, to cars, vacations, tools, appliances, toys, you name it.

 

[vomhorizon]

^^^^^^^^

That chart by BI is kind of bogus.

What people are buying using iTunes are things like 99 cent apps, music, etc.

What people are buying via Amazon or PayPal are everything from the above, to cars, vacations, tools, appliances, toys, you name it.

And where is the image showing purchasing power or revenue from these accounts? The article and the chart in particular points to the credit cards on file not on business generated from those.

Payments (from the point of view of its current iteration) is still a "potential" revenue generating stream for apple while it is a "revenue-generating" stream for both amazon and paypal.

If and when apple decides to enter the payments-domain users will have the option of automatically paying through their apple accounts on various websites and apps that have a tie up with apple and allow them to do so.

Apple is looking to develop a new mobile payment service on the back of its hundreds of millions of iTunes Store accounts, most of which have credit cards already attached, according to The Wall Street Journal.

The report claims Eddy Cue, Apple's senior vice president in charge of Internet Software and Services -- including the iTunes Store -- has met with other companies to discuss the company's desire to handle payments in retail stores and elsewhere.

Tim Cook said last October that Apple would use its skills in building software, hardware, and services to create "great products" in categories that Apple does not participate in today. Passbook, the system that Apple released a few years ago to make it more convenient for customers using gift card or ticketing apps -- along with Touch ID, iBeacon, and its vast collection of saved credit card numbers -- could all be part of a larger mobile payments play by the company.

Mobile payments is a burgeoning industry, one that Tim Cook called "in its infancy" last year, with many players. Ebay's PayPal, Google, Square, Visa, Mastercard and American Express are all examining -- or have already developed -- mobile payment platforms.

https://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/24/apple-mobile-payment-service/

 

[jamezr]

And where is the image showing purchasing power or revenue from these accounts? The article and the chart in particular points to the credit cards on file not on business generated from those.

Image

Payments (from the point of view of its current iteration) is still a "potential" revenue generating stream for apple while it is a "revenue-generating" stream for both amazon and paypal.

If and when apple decides to enter the payments-domain users will have the option of automatically paying through their apple accounts on various websites and apps that have a tie up with apple and allow them to do so.



https://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/24/apple-mobile-payment-service/

But your still missing the point.....Apple is going lock down TouchID so that you are forced to either go through iTunes......or a system they come up with to do mobile payments. This will not make the transaction any more secure than Samsung. That was the focus of the discussion. Apple will strictly control the use of TouchID not to make it secure....but instead to generate a revenue stream.....

 

[vomhorizon]

But your still missing the point.....Apple is going lock down TouchID so that you are forced to either go through iTunes......or a system they come up with to do mobile payments. This will not make the transaction any more secure than Samsung. That was the focus of the discussion. Apple will strictly control the use of TouchID not to make it secure....but instead to generate a revenue stream.....

A revenue stream is only as good as the service it offers. Would itunes generate any money for apple if it was not a valued service to the massive amount of ipod and iphone/ipad users?

Samsung is also locking down its payments by only linking with one payment provider that has about a 1/6th of the number of accounts that apple has on file. Apple customers use apple id to make purchases in the apps store all the time and given a payments model that actually costs as much or less than the competition what difference does it make whether apple is doing it or paypal is doing it? Its clearly shown that by going through apple's own store, apple is in fact providing the service to many times more customers than by simply tying up with a paypal. And why would paypal want to share customer info with apple knowing full well that apple wants to do something on its own and has a customer base already set up with credit cards that is 6 times larger than their own (and growing fast)?

Apple tying up with paypal makes absolutely ZERO sense..Its much smaller than the customer base that apple has built up by itself (which would be unserved if apple ditches its own payment plans and moves to a tie up with paypal) and its totally uncharacteristic of what folks have come to expect from apple ( a polished service rather than a crude tie up)..Apple serves its customers much better by providing a secure trusted service through the trust that they have built up over the years with the credit cards they have on file. Everyone has a credit card on file with apple and not all have or wish to have a paypal account. Its a no-brainer. Google is and will look to (expand) do the same in the future. I think samsung could have worked with google to atleast let folks buy apps using the fingerprint recognition (a basic thing, that most will use many times more frequently than buying stuff using paypal)..

 

[jamezr]

A revenue stream is only as good as the service it offers. Would itunes generate any money for apple if it was not a valued service to the massive amount of ipod and iphone/ipad users?

Samsung is also locking down its payments by only linking with one payment provider that has about a 1/6th of the number of accounts that apple has on file. Apple customers use apple id to make purchases in the apps store all the time and given a payments model that actually costs as much or less than the competition what difference does it make whether apple is doing it or paypal is doing it? Its clearly shown that by going through apple's own store, apple is in fact providing the service to many times more customers than by simply tying up with a paypal. And why would paypal want to share customer info with apple knowing full well that apple wants to do something on its own and has a customer base already set up with credit cards that is 6 times larger than their own (and growing fast)?

Apple tying up with paypal makes absolutely ZERO sense..Its much smaller than the customer base that apple has built up by itself (which would be unserved if apple ditches its own payment plans and moves to a tie up with paypal) and its totally uncharacteristic of what folks have come to expect from apple ( a polished service rather than a crude tie up)..Apple serves its customers much better by providing a secure trusted service through the trust that they have built up over the years with the credit cards they have on file. Everyone has a credit card on file with apple and not all have or wish to have a paypal account. Its a no-brainer. Google is and will look to (expand) do the same in the future. I think samsung could have worked with google to atleast let folks buy apps using the fingerprint recognition (a basic thing, that most will use many times more frequently than buying stuff using paypal)..

Would itunes generate any money for apple if it was not a valued service to the massive amount of ipod and iphone/ipad users?

We have no idea because the choice to use another form of payment does not exist.....
Samsung has partnered with PayPal at launch....with more partners to come. Apple has said you are going to use OUR services to buy only OUR products. Apple is going to make it hard for you to buy anything other than Apple products and services. They are not going to offer choices....or other partners or companies that people want to do business with....

 

[vomhorizon]

We have no idea because the choice to use another form of payment does not exist.....

Anyone can buy their music from anywhere and bring it to apple. Apple just makes it much easier to do it through the iTunes and in return you have advantages of the entire eco-system..

Samsung has partnered with PayPal at launch....with more partners to come.

We'll talk when they do. Apple will also look to expand Touch-ID integration within its IOS in other areas. I think for most users, an integration with the google play store would have been much better than integration with paypal, but you can choose to believe otherwise

Apple is going to make it hard for you to buy anything other than Apple products and services. They are not going to offer choices....or other partners or companies that people want to do business with....

Everyone is trying to maximise the advantage of their own eco-system. Samsung just doesn't have any (which they are trying to build up with MILK and other software ventures) so they do not hurt as much, as google does have a relation with them but they are not duty bound to protect google's interests. Samsung's deal with Paypal is nothing but a CLOSED eco-system which only works if you have PAYPAL or if the website supports paypal payments. Apple's wallet payments would enable multiple ways to pay. If I am on an app i do not have to make payments through apple, i can simply do so in a traditional manner through my credit card / debit card. You choose apple payments if you so desire simplicity in transaction (Samsung payments would enable the same, just that samsung would go through paypal for its touch payments)..I see no one leaving apple in droves just because only ITUNES is integrated completely with IOS and their machines..The common smartphone/tablet user wants a simple, easy and smooth experience and as long as one eco-system provides that, then he/she is content! Given a choice of having a username and password for their apple ID, a username and password (and an account) for Paypal, individual credit cards info saved into the phone (for web purchases where paypal does not work) AND a single username and password for all mobile purchases be it apps, music, books, products at major online retailers which one do you think apple customers would prefer? Who wants to have a account at Paypal, Apple Store, Google store, Amazon when your apple store account takes care of all payments.

 

[jamezr]

Anyone can buy their music from anywhere and bring it to apple. Apple just makes it much easier to do it through the iTunes and in return you have advantages of the entire eco-system..


We'll talk when they do. Apple will also look to expand Touch-ID integration within its IOS in other areas. I think for most users, an integration with the google play store would have been much better than integration with paypal, but you can choose to believe otherwise


Everyone is trying to maximise the advantage of their own eco-system. Samsung just doesn't have any (which they are trying to build up with MILK and other software ventures) so they do not hurt as much, as google does have a relation with them but they are not duty bound to protect google's interests. Samsung's deal with Paypal is nothing but a CLOSED eco-system which only works if you have PAYPAL or if the website supports paypal payments. Apple's wallet payments would enable multiple ways to pay. If I am on an app i do not have to make payments through apple, i can simply do so in a traditional manner through my credit card / debit card. You choose apple payments if you so desire simplicity in transaction (Samsung payments would enable the same, just that samsung would go through paypal for its touch payments)..I see no one leaving apple in droves just because only ITUNES is integrated completely with IOS and their machines..The common smartphone/tablet user wants a simple, easy and smooth experience and as long as one eco-system provides that, then he/she is content! Given a choice of having a username and password for their apple ID, a username and password (and an account) for Paypal, individual credit cards info saved into the phone (for web purchases where paypal does not work) AND a single username and password for all mobile purchases be it apps, music, books, products at major online retailers which one do you think apple customers would prefer? Who wants to have a account at Paypal, Apple Store, Google store, Amazon when your apple store account takes care of all payments.

All of you arguments are going in a circle. The highlighted portions are notoriously amusing......the average person will not buy music from any other outlet than iTunes. In order to activate your iPhone you connect to iTunes....then you are locked in to the walled garden....ecosystem.

The second highlighted part....I will believe it when I see it for Apple as well..........

Apple does not give its customer a choice...it decides for them where they should buy content. By making PayPal a choice (whether you use it or like it or not) Samsung is giving its customers choices......

 

[DeathChill]

Techradar says the fingerprint scanner is much better on the S5 than the 5S by far.

Where do they say this? The original article calls it out as a middling effort a few steps behind Apple.

 

[vomhorizon]

the average person will not buy music from any other outlet than iTunes. In order to activate your iPhone you connect to iTunes....then you are locked in to the walled garden....ecosystem.

I can download my music from any source and bring it to itunes and through that onto my phone, tablet or computer. Why is apple restrictive on itunes only? Because it has invested a ton of money to offer a service to its customer that revolutionized how music is sold and that service was very much appreciated by apple users irrespective of which device they use (ipod, iphone or ipad)..One can use any streaming service or subscription based music service on apple.

The second highlighted part....I will believe it when I see it for Apple as well..........

Sure its PAYPAL for samsung, vs app store for apple. I wonder what's more valuable, the ability to download apps using touch controls or buying something using your paypal account (I would assume here that all galaxy users do not have paypal accounts and would have to open an account on paypal)..It would matter if galaxy users actually spent more time buying stuff through paypal then downloading apps through the play store.

Apple does not give its customer a choice...it decides for them where they should buy content. By making PayPal a choice (whether you use it or like it or not) Samsung is giving its customers choices......

What choice has samsung given its customers? They can only purchase a product through PAYPAL if they wish to use the touch sensor to authorize their purchase. Play store downloads still require physical passwords (for security) and all other purchases that go through websites and apps that do not support paypal also require the same. When apple launches their payments apple's customers also get to do this using their apple id..and because the apple ID payment base is 6 times that of paypal apple would provide the convenience to a much broader customer base than samsung (or apple) through paypal. Why should i have to open an account with paypal only to buy something from best buy? Retailers will fall in place simply due to the sheer size and scope of apple ID and apple's smooth and well designed integration of app id purchases to touch ID. Its just a matter of getting deals with the various retailers and getting favourable terms. Samsung is going in this direction because they do not have an OS of their own. Google has integrated WALLETS into their OS but what incentive does Samsung have to link that up to their own purchases? Apple already has a credit card on file for most of its IOS customers..All it has to do it offer to these customers the convenience of being able to pay for a greater number of services using the most basic things which they have already set up on their account. Why would an apple customer want to give out his/her credit card information to two or more companies (Apple, Paypal and others)?? What advantage does one get by maintaining an account with Paypal, an account with apple( apple is the 3rd largest online retailer in the US based on revenue) and an account with other vendors?

Lets say 6 months down the road Samsung does another deal with Google, and another one with Amazon (the largest online retailer in the US) and Wal-Mart (in the top 5)..What advantage does one get when one has to either have a Paypal account (which not all E-shopers have or desire) and hope all E-stores one frequently visits use PAYPAL or have individual accounts with each and every vendor and then linking those accounts to samsung's touch controls?

 

[jamezr]

I can download my music from any source and bring it to itunes and through that onto my phone, tablet or computer. Why is apple restrictive on itunes only? Because it has invested a ton of money to offer a service to its customer that revolutionized how music is sold and that service was very much appreciated by apple users irrespective of which device they use (ipod, iphone or ipad)..One can use any streaming service or subscription based music service on apple.



Sure its PAYPAL for samsung, vs app store for apple. I wonder what's more valuable, the ability to download apps using touch controls or buying something using your paypal account (I would assume here that all galaxy users do not have paypal accounts and would have to open an account on paypal)..It would matter if galaxy users actually spent more time buying stuff through paypal then downloading apps through the play store.



What choice has samsung given its customers? They can only purchase a product through PAYPAL if they wish to use the touch sensor to authorize their purchase. Play store downloads still require physical passwords (for security) and all other purchases that go through websites and apps that do not support paypal also require the same. When apple launches their payments apple's customers also get to do this using their apple id..and because the apple ID payment base is 6 times that of paypal apple would provide the convenience to a much broader customer base than samsung (or apple) through paypal. Why should i have to open an account with paypal only to buy something from best buy? Retailers will fall in place simply due to the sheer size and scope of apple ID and apple's smooth and well designed integration of app id purchases to touch ID. Its just a matter of getting deals with the various retailers and getting favourable terms. Samsung is going in this direction because they do not have an OS of their own. Google has integrated WALLETS into their OS but what incentive does Samsung have to link that up to their own purchases? Apple already has a credit card on file for most of its IOS customers..All it has to do it offer to these customers the convenience of being able to pay for a greater number of services using the most basic things which they have already set up on their account. Why would an apple customer want to give out his/her credit card information to two or more companies (Apple, Paypal and others)?? What advantage does one get by maintaining an account with Paypal, an account with apple and an account with other vendors?

you still are not getting it and are now just repeating yourself. You can download all the content you want and add it to iTunes...because you know how to do that. you are not the average majority iPhone consumer who will use iTunes because that is the application you need to activate your phone. By making it mandatory to use iTunes you are pretty much guaranteed the vast majority will never leave that channel. You know this too. So why argue the point?

What payment option is there for TouchID users? Can you use it to buy music from Amazon? Why not? By only allowing supposed FEATURES to be used to generate revenue to only Apple software and revenue channels it borders on a monopoly.
You down grade the fact that Samsung is partnering with PayPal....but that is one more option they give to their customers than Apple does......
I grab my phone to buy something from BestBuy...I can do it on the new S5 with their fingerprint offering using PayPal. Can you do that with TouchID? I just won an auction on eBay....I want to use the fingerprint canner to authenticate my PayPal payment....done....can you do that with TouchID? Why not? because it does not generate revenue for Apple..... Doesn't matter if it is a very nice option for their customer....

 

[vomhorizon]

You know this too. So why argue the point?

Because no one CARES...No one is leaving apple or stopping buying the iPhone because they are slaved to itunes (which they are not since one can bring music in from many different ways).

You can download all the content you want and add it to iTunes...because you know how to do that.

Almost everyone I know (including people well into their 60's) have brought over their digital music and CD's over to itunes, and a lot of the folks did that during the iPOD days. To think that the common person does not know how to bring music over to itunes is quite absurd in my opinion. I agree with in device music purchases where itunes has a monopoly.

What payment option is there for TouchID users?

At the moment they can only use it to buy from apple but we are talking about the potential direction here are we NOT? Apple is not into "payments" at the moment but the entire discussion was about apple "getting into payments" unless you assumed that i was claiming that apple was already into third-party-payments. BTW apple is the 3rd largest online retailer in the US and i bet apple' money generated through the apple store using ios would be significantly larger then any payments made through galaxy devices using PAYPAL (thats my guess) given the huge advantage apple has.

Let me repeat, Apple only allows its users to buy apps using touch ID..Not third party stuff. Samsung would in about a months time allow people to shop on ebay or set up a paypal account to shop through its supporting vendors. As long as galaxy users spend more time typing in their paypal passwords then typing in their google play store credentials they'd be happy with samsung's approach of going first with a third party payments provider as opposed to the maker of the OS and its most widely used app store.

You down grade the fact that Samsung is partnering with PayPal....but that is one more option they give to their customers that Apple does......

PAYPAL is so far the ONLY choice Samsung's customers have. They have to fill in a password and/or credit card information for everything else. If Samsung hooks up with others then they would offer more choice. That choice will however come at the expense of having multiple payment accounts with multiple vendors..

* Have a payments account with Paypal
* Have a payments account with Apple (apple is a top 3 online retailer in the US)
* Have a payments account with Amazon (No. 1)

etc etc

If a galaxy owner does not have a payments account with paypal (I'll assume the majority of galaxy users wont have paypal accounts) then the option remains:

* Open multiple accounts with google, amazon etc (Google wallets , Amazon payments service) and fill out credit card info with individual vendors (best buy, staples, wal-mart, Target, macy's etc etc )

* Hope samsung supports each and every online vendor you visit and monitor payment receipts and credit card information with each and every vendor..

If you want to go through each and every retailer, sign up with your credit card information and create a profile..then thats all well and good...You should be happy with your choices, hoping that samsung gets deals with most of them and does so in a timely manner..

I on the other hand Expect apple to go out (reach out) to major online players and retailers and come up with a service that allows me to pay using my apple id. I do not want to register at 10 different retailers (I shop on 3 or 4 websites, my wife buys stuff from over half a dozen websites), i want to buy a product that i like, sign in with my apple id using touch ID have apple give me options with regards to payments (various credit cards, debit cards, bank accounts) and shipping addresses and be done with it. Apple already has my credit card on file and I can easily save my addresses on file so that i do not need to register with individual retailers..All I would require is a payments mode to be switched on either on my IOS device or through my apple account...

Would an Android user using a galaxy phone not wonder why he/she has to have multiple payment accounts with multiple vendors to have a smooth shopping experience? If you already have your credit card info secured with google would it not help if all your purchases could be through that info which you have already provided? We are not talking about the quality of the product..the 100 dollar item purchased looks and feels the same whether you bought it using paypal, google wallets or by physically punching in your own credit card info.. (although google even in a half baked effort can do a much better job at customer satisfaction than paypal)

 

[jamezr]

Because no one CARES...No one is leaving apple or stopping buying the iPhone because they are slaved to itunes (which they are not since one can bring music in from many different ways).



Almost everyone I know (including people well into their 60's) have brought over their digital music and CD's over to itunes, and a lot of the folks did that during the iPOD days. To think that the common person does not know how to bring music over to itunes is quite absurd in my opinion. I agree with in device music purchases where itunes has a monopoly.



At the moment they can only use it to buy from apple but we are talking about the potential direction here are we NOT? Apple is not into "payments" at the moment but the entire discussion was about apple "getting into payments" unless you assumed that i was claiming that apple was already into third-party-payments. BTW apple is the 3rd largest online retailer in the world and i bet apple' money generated through the apple store using ios would be significantly larger then any payments made through galaxy devices using PAYPAL (thats my guess) given the huge advantage apple has.

Let me repeat, Apple only allows its users to buy apps using touch ID..Not third party stuff. Samsung would in about a months time allow people to shop on ebay or set up a paypal account to shop through its supporting vendors. As long as galaxy users spend more time typing in their paypal passwords then typing in their google play store credentials they'd be happy with samsung's approach of going first with a third party payments provider as opposed to the maker of the OS and its most widely used app store.



PAYPAL is so far the ONLY choice Samsung's customers have. They have to fill in a password and/or credit card information for everything else. If Samsung hooks up with others then they would offer more choice. That choice will however come at the expense of having multiple payment accounts with multiple vendors..

* Have a payments account with Paypal
* Have a payments account with Apple (apple is a top 3 online retailer in the US)
* Have a payments account with Amazon (No. 1)

If a galaxy owner does not have a payments account with paypal (I'll assume the majority of galaxy users wont have paypal accounts) then the option remains:

* Open multiple accounts with google, amazon etc (Google wallets , Amazon payments service) and fill out credit card info with individual vendors (best buy, staples, wal-mart, Target, macy's etc etc )

* Hope samsung supports each and every online vendor you visit and monitor payment receipts and credit card information with each and every vendor..

If you want to go through each and every retailer, sign up with your credit card information and create a profile..then thats all well and good...You should be happy with your choices, hoping that samsung gets deals with most of them and does so in a timely manner..

I on the other hand Expect apple to go out (reach out) to major online players and retailers and come up with a service that allows me to pay using my apple id. I do not want to register at 10 different retailers, i want to buy a product that i like, sign in with my apple id using touch ID have apple give me options with regards to payments (various credit cards, debit cards, bank accounts) and shipping addresses and be done with it. Apple already has my credit card on file and I can easily save my addresses on file so that i do not need to register with individual retailers..All I would require is a payments mode to be switched on either on my IOS device or through my apple account...

You just don't get and are now just sewing nonsense and even contradicting yourself...I'm done....you can lead a horse to water but......unless it's Apple Kool-Aid.....you can't make them drink.....

 

[jrswizzle]

you still are not getting it and are now just repeating yourself. You can download all the content you want and add it to iTunes...because you know how to do that. you are not the average majority iPhone consumer who will use iTunes because that is the application you need to activate your phone. By making it mandatory to use iTunes you are pretty much guaranteed the vast majority will never leave that channel. You know this too. So why argue the point?

What payment option is there for TouchID users? Can you use it to buy music from Amazon? Why not? By only allowing supposed FEATURES to be used to generate revenue to only Apple software and revenue channels it borders on a monopoly.
You down grade the fact that Samsung is partnering with PayPal....but that is one more option they give to their customers than Apple does......
I grab my phone to buy something from BestBuy...I can do it on the new S5 with their fingerprint offering using PayPal. Can you do that with TouchID? I just won an auction on eBay....I want to use the fingerprint canner to authenticate my PayPal payment....done....can you do that with TouchID? Why not? because it does not generate revenue for Apple..... Doesn't matter if it is a very nice option for their customer....

Vomhorizon is pointing out valid extrapolations based on past Apple history and logical courses of action moving forward.

Because Apple does not TODAY offer this functionality doesn't mean they aren't working on something. What Vom points out is extremely true - Apple is in the business of making money. So is Samsung for that matter - if you think they aren't somehow profiting out of the PayPal deal, you're sadly mistaken. See Samsung doesn't have the wealth of customer payment data Apple has. They HAD to go out to a third party. You make it seem as though Apple is some evil money-grubbing company who just looks to make a profit while Samsung is some altruistic, customer-pleasing company. That's complete naive.

Fact is, Apple has built their company on providing an entire ecosystem to its customers. Within this ecosystem, things are extremely simple. Photos are saved and transferred instantly, music is readily available, etc. Apple can build their own payment offering and let users utilize it for everything. This idea that somehow Apple will only allow you to buy Apple products is absolutely insane....

I use all Apple products and buy most of my movies via Amazon, I buy my books via Amazon and most of my music is loaded up to iTunes match from my vast CD collection. But guess what - I even have the option to load my music into Google Play Music and use their app if I wanted to.

So please.....stop this "Apple is evil and only wants to lock you in" crap. Apple is a corporation. And like all corporations, their primary goal is to make money. Luckily for us Apple users, they also tend to crank out some damn good hardware, software and services which hundreds of millions of people have no issue using.

----------

You just don't get and are now just sewing nonsense and even contradicting yourself...I'm done....you can lead a horse to water but......unless it's Apple Kool-Aid.....you can't make them drink.....

Bro - YOU are the one who doesn't get it. The only types of people who use the "Apple kool-aid" line are the ones too blinded by some fanboy hatred to use common sense.

If I want to pay on a Samsung device, I HAVE to use PayPal.

Apple's future offering - if I want to pay via my Apple device, all I have to do is use the same login I already use to get apps - forget other media content. If you have an iPhone, you have an AppleID (much like Android users have a Google account).

I'd much rather have Apple negotiate with all the retailers on the backend so I only see ONE login than have to deal with all those retailers myself. Or sign into yet another third party system for some, then another for others etc....

PayPal may be large, but its not ubiquitous. Again - Samsung did this because they have no other option. Apple has other options. If Samsung had the payment data Apple has? You can be damn sure they wouldn't put themselves in the position they are currently in - at the mercy of PayPal.

 

[vomhorizon]

You just don't get and are now just sewing nonsense and even contradicting yourself...I'm done....you can lead a horse to water but......unless it's Apple Kool-Aid.....you can't make them drink.....

What I am saying is simple. I as a consumer want to provide my credit cards and/or bank information to one trusted source and use that to make the widest possible online payments. I do not want to register my credit cards with dozens of vendors so that samsung does a deal with them and allows me to execute biometric purchases. I do that now (most of my families online shopping is through the iPAD) and absolutely hate registering at different online retailers so that my credit card options are pulled up or type all of that in physically if i do not want a profile. I have a paypal account but do not use paypal to make payments for anything other then ebay (because of bad experiences with their customer service in the past) so for me, to execute a purchase involves registering with various online retailers and/or buying the product as a guest and filling out each and every field manually.

----------

I'd much rather have Apple negotiate with all the retailers on the backend so I only see ONE login than have to deal with all those retailers myself. Or sign into yet another third party system for some, then another for others etc....

Apparently this is tough to comprehend As the alternative (registering with Macy's, Registering with Wal-mart, Registering with Target, Registering with Amazon, registering with apple, registering with best buy, registering with sears, registering with zappos) is much better because you get choices

 

[jrswizzle]

What I am saying is simple. I as a consumer want to provide my credit cards and/or bank information to one trusted source and use that to make the widest possible online payments. I do not want to register my credit cards with dozens of vendors so that samsung does a deal with them and allows me to execute biometric purchases. I do that now (most of my families online shopping is through the iPAD) and absolutely hate registering at different online retailers so that my credit card options are pulled up or type all of that in physically if i do not want a profile. I have a paypal account but do not use paypal to make payments for anything other then ebay (because of bad experiences with their customer service in the past) so for me, to execute a purchase involves registering with various online retailers and/or buying the product as a guest and filling out each and every field manually.

----------




Apparently this is tough to comprehend

Only for him - I understand what you're saying completely and agree wholeheartedly.

The iOS ecosystem is what brought me back from a year on Android. Not necessarily because I couldn't handle it - but because those I communicate with most use Apple and staying within the ecosystem is simply more convenient.

The idea that you are somehow "trapped" or "locked in" is ludicrous. As ludicrous as the idea that Apple would only allow you to purchase Apple products via TouchID or they would somehow restrict it.

The ramblings of a blind hater. Nothing more. I'd let it go or you'll explain yourself dizzy.

 

[vomhorizon]

Only for him - I understand what you're saying completely and agree wholeheartedly.

The iOS ecosystem is what brought me back from a year on Android. Not necessarily because I couldn't handle it - but because those I communicate with most use Apple and staying within the ecosystem is simply more convenient.

The idea that you are somehow "trapped" or "locked in" is ludicrous. As ludicrous as the idea that Apple would only allow you to purchase Apple products via TouchID or they would somehow restrict it.

The ramblings of a blind hater. Nothing more. I'd let it go or you'll explain yourself dizzy.

I use and love both android and iOS. I see advantages of having itunes and google play interoperability from a "choice" standpoint, but by not having over the air download from google play or amazon on my iPhone i aint really missing out on much. Payments on the other hand offer absolutely no advantage of having multiple accounts with multiple vendors..unless apple fails to reach "deals" with a lot of the online vendors that i use..Its your VISA or Mastercard thats making the payment, whether paypal does or google or apple, it makes absolutely no difference to the end user. I don't want to give my credit card to others if i can avoid it..Apple already has my credit card on file, it should go out and tie up with my preferred online retailers so that i have the convenience of shopping using my apple id..It should not require me to register with dozens of online retailers so that i can make use of the touch-ID / Retailer deal apple has signed with them. That would be going backwards !

Like you said, Samsung doesn't have many credit cards on file and its customers do not provide that kind of data to samsung. For them they had to go to a source that has a sizeable market share..Amazon would have been better, but they have their own ambitions with payments. Paypal is no3 but i would have preferred samsung going to google and its wallet and asking google to push its wallet with multiple retailers as it is doing and will look to do in the future given its ambitions in that field. Any way you look at it Galaxy Users in the future would have to have their credit card info with multiple vendors, google , paypal at least..Probably a lot more..

 

[jrswizzle]

I use and love both android and iOS. I see advantages of having itunes and google play interoperability from a "choice" standpoint, but by not having over the air download from google play or amazon on my iPhone i aint really missing out on much. Payments on the other hand offer absolutely no advantage of having multiple accounts with multiple vendors..unless apple fails to reach "deals" with a lot of the online vendors that i use..Its your VISA or Mastercard thats making the payment, whether paypal does or google or apple, it makes absolutely no difference to the end user. I don't want to give my credit card to others if i can avoid it..Apple already has my credit card on file, it should go out and tie up with my preferred online retailers so that i have the convenience of shopping using my apple id..It should not require me to register with dozens of online retailers so that i can make use of the touch-ID / Retailer deal apple has signed with them. That would be going backwards !

I just thought of something.....

Swipe and Scan - using your AppleID attached to NFC on the iWatch, I would wave my watch at a payment terminal and scan my thumbprint on my iPhone to verify.

No cards. No ID. Two point verification because Apple has linked the AppleID to the TouchID data.

What do you think? This is for in-store payments. Obviously, online would be as easy as scanning your fingerprint.

 

[jamezr]

Vomhorizon is pointing out valid extrapolations based on past Apple history and logical courses of action moving forward.

Because Apple does not TODAY offer this functionality doesn't mean they aren't working on something. What Vom points out is extremely true - Apple is in the business of making money. So is Samsung for that matter - if you think they aren't somehow profiting out of the PayPal deal, you're sadly mistaken. See Samsung doesn't have the wealth of customer payment data Apple has. They HAD to go out to a third party. You make it seem as though Apple is some evil money-grubbing company who just looks to make a profit while Samsung is some altruistic, customer-pleasing company. That's complete naive.

Fact is, Apple has built their company on providing an entire ecosystem to its customers. Within this ecosystem, things are extremely simple. Photos are saved and transferred instantly, music is readily available, etc. Apple can build their own payment offering and let users utilize it for everything. This idea that somehow Apple will only allow you to buy Apple products is absolutely insane....

I use all Apple products and buy most of my movies via Amazon, I buy my books via Amazon and most of my music is loaded up to iTunes match from my vast CD collection. But guess what - I even have the option to load my music into Google Play Music and use their app if I wanted to.

So please.....stop this "Apple is evil and only wants to lock you in" crap. Apple is a corporation. And like all corporations, their primary goal is to make money. Luckily for us Apple users, they also tend to crank out some damn good hardware, software and services which hundreds of millions of people have no issue using.

Not once did I say anything like that and you know it. That is always the defense when pointed out how controlling Apple really is....

Samsung offered partnered with PayPal to provide their customers options and convenience. Apple advertised a feature (TouchID) and said you can only use it to buy OUR products. Which only makes it a feature for their revenue channel. Not for the convenience of their customers.

So all the content you buy on Amazon....do you use TouchID to authenticate your payment? Why not?

So now don't box me into to saying I am against Apple. this discussion was about the fingerprint scanners on the IP5s and the not yet released Galaxy S5.
I think Apple is the best company at creating a blend of both software and hardware. I buy and use their products and will continue to do so. But people in this thread were saying negative things about a yet to be released feature for a new phone. Then touting how one was better than the other.
I disagreed with that premise.

----------

I just thought of something.....

Swipe and Scan - using your AppleID attached to NFC on the iWatch, I would wave my watch at a payment terminal and scan my thumbprint on my iPhone to verify.

No cards. No ID. Two point verification because Apple has linked the AppleID to the TouchID data.

What do you think? This is for in-store payments. Obviously, online would be as easy as scanning your fingerprint.

That is a great idea! That would be a great synergy between the two devices!
Quick get a patent....

 

[vomhorizon]

Samsung offered partnered with PayPal to provide their customers options and convenience. Apple advertised a feature (TouchID) and said you can only use it to buy OUR products. Which only makes it a feature for their revenue channel. Not for the convenience of their customers.

Convenience as long as they have a paypal account (which many do not)..ALL(my guess anyhow) of Samsung's customers will use the play store at some point in their life to execute a purchase..Will all of them ever go to Paypal? Although the ability to go into paypal is good and provides some advantage, samsung should have atleast integrated basic play store credentials with its touch sensor, a feature likely to be used much more then executing paypal transactions.

Apple advertised a feature (TouchID) and said you can only use it to buy OUR products. Which only makes it a feature for their revenue channel. Not for the convenience of their customers.

Apple users use the app store quite a bit (1 billion dollars worth of revenue in december 2013)..I average about 2-3 paypal transactions a month, but use my apple ID at least 2 dozen times over the same time.

So all the content you buy on Amazon....do you use TouchID to authenticate your payment? Why not?

You do realize that this discussion basically started on apple's rumoured (a fairly strong rumour even reported by WSJ) entry into Payments? Or are you implying that we were claiming that apple is already into "third-party-payments"?

 

[jamezr]

Only for him - I understand what you're saying completely and agree wholeheartedly.

The iOS ecosystem is what brought me back from a year on Android. Not necessarily because I couldn't handle it - but because those I communicate with most use Apple and staying within the ecosystem is simply more convenient.

The idea that you are somehow "trapped" or "locked in" is ludicrous. As ludicrous as the idea that Apple would only allow you to purchase Apple products via TouchID or they would somehow restrict it.

The ramblings of a blind hater. Nothing more. I'd let it go or you'll explain yourself dizzy.

So now you want to make it personal.....it is well known you are an Apple fan boy through COUNTLESS threads!
So what can you buy with your TouchID right now? the technology has been out there for 6 months and in development for at least a year or two. Why is there no partnerships? Why can't you use this great feature to buy from Amazon? It would be great for consumers.....to have choices....not restrictions.

 

[vomhorizon]

I just thought of something.....

Swipe and Scan - using your AppleID attached to NFC on the iWatch, I would wave my watch at a payment terminal and scan my thumbprint on my iPhone to verify.

No cards. No ID. Two point verification because Apple has linked the AppleID to the TouchID data.

What do you think? This is for in-store payments. Obviously, online would be as easy as scanning your fingerprint.

Apple has quite a few patents to mobile "in-store-physical" payments..You won't see most of the iWatch patents anytime soon..

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patent...t-patent-for-motion-based-payment-system.html

 

[jamezr]

Convenience as long as they have a paypal account (which many do not)..ALL(my guess anyhow) of Samsung's customers will use the play store at some point in their life to execute a purchase..Will all of them ever go to Paypal? Although the ability to go into paypal is good and provides some advantage, samsung should have atleast integrated basic play store credentials with its touch sensor, a feature likely to be used much more then executing paypal transactions.



Apple users use the app store quite a bit (1 billion dollars worth of revenue in december 2013)..I average about 2-3 paypal transactions a month, but use my apple ID at least 2 dozen times over the same time.



You do realize that this discussion basically started on apple's rumoured (a fairly strong rumour even reported by WSJ) entry into Payments? Or are you implying that we were claiming that apple is already into "third-party-payments"?

You do realize you are wrong?
From the very first post

Why did Samsung make the fingerprint sensor on the S-5 so crappy compared to the 5s?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the iPhone 5s you can both wake up and unlock your phone one-handed with a simple press of the home button via you thumb.

With the Galaxy S-5 you need to have two hands available, wake up the device, THEN swipe your finger on your 2nd hand across and hope that it works (many reviews say it is very unreliable).

Why would Samsung screw up this very simple, yet extremely useful, one-handed feature? Do they just not have the dedication to quality that Apple does?

Sometimes it seems like Samsung is more concerned with adding half-baked products and features that don't really work half as good as the leader of the industry : Apple.

 

[vomhorizon]

You do realize you are wrong?
From the very first post

No I was not. I did not write the first post, I was referring to apple's rumoured venture into Payments, and how that is the correct approach as opposed to lapping up deals with multiple third party payments businesses or retailers..You argued the exact opposite that by not going into this for itself, and by tying up with Paypal samsung is offering more choices and it has claimed that it would look to tie up with more retailers in the future. My contention is that Samsung is doing this totally backwards. It should be reducing my reliance of having multiple accounts with multiple third-party payers or retailers not increasing it.

At the moment (well starting mid april that is) Samsung has given its users the choice of making paypal payments to buy stuff on the internet using their paypal account. Of course these users must have a paypal account or feel the need to open one if the do not. If samsung feels that their average galaxy user will be using paypal more often then downloading apps from the play store, then their approach of going for paypal and not the play store makes absolute sense. Apple users although cannot buy anything from a third party vendor (for now) can execute app purchases using touch ID. Speaking from my experience (and those i know) most download way more apps than shop using paypal using their iPhone.

 

[jrswizzle]

Not once did I say anything like that and you know it. That is always the defense when pointed out how controlling Apple really is....

These are taken from previous posts of yours in this thread:

Apple wants to keep TouchID all to themselves to make money through their delivery channels. Opening up TouchID to third party apps might get in the way of that......

Apple is going to make it hard for you to buy anything other than Apple products and services. They are not going to offer choices....or other partners or companies that people want to do business with....

Apple will strictly control the use of TouchID not to make it secure....but instead to generate a revenue stream.....

But Apple wants their customer base to only buy their content through their own channels.


So you're saying that these comments are not meant to insinuate that all Apple cares about is locking customers in and profit? An image many would attribute to an evil, selfish company?

By the way - what company offers access to other companies' merchandise in their store? If I walk into Best Buy, am I also able to purchase from Target? Or am I able to purchase Target gift cards? Of course not. It's not surprising Apple makes it easier to buy from them - but that doesn't mean they completely restrict you from buying elsewhere. Its really not difficult.

Samsung offered partnered with PayPal to provide their customers options and convenience. Apple advertised a feature (TouchID) and said you can only use it to buy OUR products. Which only makes it a feature for their revenue channel. Not for the convenience of their customers.

Let's be honest. Samsung partnered with PayPal because they wanted to offer payment via biometric scanner and they didn't have the data to do it themselves. They HAD to pair with a third party. Apple, on the other hand, doesn't have to negotiate a deal that would benefit a third party. And if you think PayPal isn't benefitting from this, you're sadly mistaken.

Secondly, Apple hasn't advertised ANY payment options via TouchID yet. You can use it as a means of bypassing the normal password input for AppleID purchases. That's all. This is a security issue. At this time, they don't feel ready to widen the scope of TouchID. At this point, I'm fine with it. TouchId was implemented as a quick and efficient way to bypass entering a passcode every time I wanted to unlock my phone. They also allowed it to bypass entering your appleID password. Because they could control how the data was sent there and they hadn't yet negotiated terms with retailers to roll out anything more substantial.

Note that this doesn't mean they haven't negotiated with anyone - simply that the grouping of retailers isn't large enough for them to feel its ready to release.

So all the content you buy on Amazon....do you use TouchID to authenticate your payment? Why not?

Because at this time, Apple has not opened up the ability to use TouchID for payments. I assume this is because they have yet to negotiate a deal with Amazon, or that the total package hasn't yet been put together.

Doesn't negate the fact that I can go on my iPhone and purchase goods from Amazon, Google Play or whomever else I want.

[/QUOTE]So now don't box me into to saying I am against Apple. this discussion was about the fingerprint scanners on the IP5s and the not yet released Galaxy S5.
I think Apple is the best company at creating a blend of both software and hardware. I buy and use their products and will continue to do so. But people in this thread were saying negative things about a yet to be released feature for a new phone. Then touting how one was better than the other.
I disagreed with that premise.[/QUOTE]

You've made some pretty negative comments about Apple and how you assume they will implement a payment solution, so I don't feel I'm out of bounds making the comments I've made. However, I apologize if I'm mistaken in my assumptions.

I want to make it clear that my beef with the Samsung implementation has little to do with security (though I wish people would ask as many questions about it as they did about TouchID rather than just jumping on anyone who voices concerns) and more with efficiency and convenience. As a means of unlocking your device, it seems to be much less convenient than Apple's implementation.

Vom also points out that ONE deal with a third party payment company like PayPal may be good now, but Samsung will eventually need to strike more deals to offer a full mobile payment service. Apple, on the other hand, has all the tools to offer a complete service from the get go without partnering with a third party. In my experience and opinion, the fewer people/entities are involved in a security sensitive issue, the better.

That is a great idea! That would be a great synergy between the two devices!
Quick get a patent....

It wasn't all my idea. The idea that NFC belongs in the iWatch and not the iPhone came from a former Apple engineer and this MacRumors article. Lots of good iWatch stuff there. I figure the above idea is likely how Apple will choose to implement NFC and mobile payments when they're ready.

 

[jamezr]

No I was not. I did not write the first post, I was referring to apple's rumoured venture into Payments, and how that is the correct approach as opposed to lapping up deals with multiple third party payments businesses or retailers..You argued the exact opposite that by not going into this for itself, and by tying up with Paypal samsung is offering more choices and it has claimed that it would look to tie up with more retailers in the future. My contention is that Samsung is doing this totally backwards. It should be reducing my reliance of having multiple accounts with multiple third-party payers or retailers not increasing it.

But that is not what you said...you said this discussion started around Apple and speculated partnerships from WSJ.....that is NOT how this thread and discussion started....nice try......
This how this discussion started:

Why did Samsung make the fingerprint sensor on the S-5 so crappy compared to the 5s?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the iPhone 5s you can both wake up and unlock your phone one-handed with a simple press of the home button via you thumb.

With the Galaxy S-5 you need to have two hands available, wake up the device, THEN swipe your finger on your 2nd hand across and hope that it works (many reviews say it is very unreliable).

Why would Samsung screw up this very simple, yet extremely useful, one-handed feature? Do they just not have the dedication to quality that Apple does?

Sometimes it seems like Samsung is more concerned with adding half-baked products and features that don't really work half as good as the leader of the industry : Apple.

But you said this below.....not the same thing at all.....

You do realize that this discussion basically started on apple's rumoured (a fairly strong rumour even reported by WSJ) entry into Payments? Or are you implying that we were claiming that apple is already into "third-party-payments"?