You haven't proven anything. Anytime he posted you moved the goalposts and changed your stance.
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Why did Samsung make the fingerprint sensor on the S-5 so crappy compared to the 5s?
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You haven't proven anything. Anytime he posted you moved the goalposts and changed your stance.
No... my focus has been the same all along.....finger print scanner. Nothing else......It has been you and Vom that wants to bring in everything under the sun that is Apple to the forefront. I have been steady on the one thread topic.
You made an allegation on not one but two occasions that I had claimed that Apple users did not use paypal. I am calling out your BS and asking for evidence. Kindly do provide it.
I think you have some trouble understanding what I had written. I seriously doubt that anyone on this forum (besides you) can read my post (s) and come to your interpretation of my comment.
At which point i pointed out the OBVIOUS to you, that apple is "looking-at" the payments business, but has not entered it just YET.
You brought it up when you said that apple is CLOSED and does not give you any choice of operating multiple credit card accounts with multiple retailers. I pointed to the advantages of having an eco-system and why all others that know how to do software (google, microsoft) are trying to build (or have built) a significant eco system. Even your beloved Samsung.
I just spoke of my personal experience. Most I know love to use it for security and to buy stuff, ranging from apps to movies, music for their apple tv..I don't claim to have carried out any sort of survey about it. It has been available for some time, allows you to do certain things, and what it can do will soon be expanded as highlighted by the apple CEO.
You have failed to answer even the basic questions regarding your beloved Samsung's Finger print ID System such as "where does the S5 store the finger print data"?
You have gone about asking simple questions that require a bit of common sense such as " How do you know this".."How do you come to that conclusion"....Do some research of your own!
And what benefits of that "well known" standard FIDO? What capability that brings to its customers beyond Paypal? FIDO is a big fat joke..And will fade into insignificance once google, apple and amazon's intention in payments is more clear. Mark my words!
Yet their users wont even be able to buy an app using their authentication (biometric). A much simpler and more logical task for the finger print reader. But they'll be able to buy a 100$ pair of headphones from ebay using their phone. Hope Samsung users buy more stuff form ebay or using paypal then the simple frequent tasks of buying apps, music, movies and what not from the play store. Things that smartphone users do a lot with app-hungry smartphones.
Apple brought it out in 2013 (where was the note 3 with finger print scanner?) and most industry pundits will tell you that all these "Fast follower" devices only got interested in biometrics because of apple's interest in authentech...Apple customers spend money on the app store for various things ranging from apps, to music, movies, books etc..Its quite likely that more than 1 billion dollars have been spent by iphone 5s users since launch using the app store given apple's average sales...
And what Tim cook says does matter..The industry listens to him for cues to see what apple is doing. Companies like Paypal knowing his intentions want to synergize so that they mitigate the threat of apple getting into its core business. Apple customers care because apple's services are not (most of the time anyway) HALF BAKED, and when apple does offer something it may be late but its refined, elegant, and well thought out like iTunes. Not some partnership with a company that has a 2% market share so that you can deliver a "me-to/fast-follower" product 6 months after your competitor launches a similar product (MILK)
Apple is a secretive company, they do not watch the other companies launch with marketing and product people sitting in their office so that they can issue press releases 10 minutes later claiming " This is something we are also working on" we'll get it out soon..
Who cares who goes to paypal first? Apple allowed touch ID purchases months before the Samsung GS5..Samsung went to Paypal because they couldn't go elsewhere and offered something to the customer that would be far less useful to their routine then a simple partnership with play account that taps into the android ecosystem.
Samsung's approach will only be better if its users actually spend more time punching in their paypal username and passwords while buying stuff then on punching in their google credentials to buy from the play stores. Play store sells apps, music, movies books etc..Stuff most of the "real-world" uses on its smartphones or other devices tied to the ecosystem.
Eco-system has everything to do with it. As an apple user I do not want them to tap into Paypal and have me go through payments through it. I want the damn password apple already has on file to make all my payments. These are "expectations" users have....Expectations arise because apple actually bothers about building and maintaing an ECOSYSTEM that provides easy of use and simplicity to its customers...I want to make purchases at amazon or zappos in the same elegant manner I make purchases with touch-ID on my app store. I do not want a damn paypal account or open any account while I already have a perfectly good credit card attached to my itunes account. IT costs a lot of money to build up a payments business like the one the industry pundits are talking about..Apple could have easily tapped into paypal and piggy backed on their 100 million or so accounts..But that would be a half baked, RUSHED approach that would only serve a fraction of ios customers (not all use paypal, or even wish to) and would be totally uncharacteristic of how apple does things (how they did itunes, how they did ibooks, how they did the appstore)..
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Because its DUMB to look at the fingerprint scanner in isolation without looking at the services around it and what potential uses of it lurk in the future.
Just as it is DUMB to assume any potential that will not be realized. So what has Apple said they will do the TouchID? They haven't said anything other than they are looking at it...... WOW.......You can speculate what that means but it will be just that speculation..........Just as you can speculate what Samsung will do with its fingerprint scanner. But its still pure speculation.
Samsung has not even integrated their fingerprint scanner on the most basic purchase mechanism for any android user..The one that would have been the most logical (play store) and the one that is most likely to be used.
With regards to speculation. When was the last time you read the title of this website? You do realize that speculating is what happens on this website a lot of the times. If you want to speak of hard written facts, try some other website, this is about mac rumours and speculations based on industry analysis is a valid point of discussion.
I take it that you aren't going to point to my claim that apple users do not use Paypal..
As much as I'm enjoying reading all this, I think its time to quit. Clearly this isn't going anywhere. You, I and pretty much anyone else reading this gets the implications of Samsung's implementation versus Apple's plans. Jamezr can use what he wants and think what he wants.
I guess you're right..The discussion is for all to see and come to their own conclusion..
Personally I think:
- phone keeps my fingerprint in what's practically a hardware fort.
- phone keeps my fingerprint in what's practically a software fort and occasionally sends off some hash of my fingerprint to a company with a reputation for having terrible business tactics.
One of these make me sleep better at night.
- phone keeps my fingerprint in what's practically a hardware fort.
- phone keeps my fingerprint in what's practically a software fort and occasionally sends off some hash of my fingerprint to a company with a reputation for having terrible business tactics.
One of these make me sleep better at night.
Wow what is up with all the back and forth bickering, geez oh petey's.
I didn't care for the finger print sensor on the 5S. I had issues with the fading on two devices and found it to be annoying, it was quicker to use my PIN. Granted, I have since ditched my 5s so I haven't got to try it with 7.1 and the "fading" fix.
I'm interested to grab the S5 and see Samsung's take on the fingerprint scanner.
I didn't care for the finger print sensor on the 5S. I had issues with the fading on two devices and found it to be annoying, it was quicker to use my PIN. Granted, I have since ditched my 5s so I haven't got to try it with 7.1 and the "fading" fix.
I'm interested to grab the S5 and see Samsung's take on the fingerprint scanner.
As someone who never experienced the "fade" I'd imagine 7.1 has it running on everyone's 5S like it has always run on mine.
I keep meaning to make a video showing my 5S and 5C side-by-side unlocking....can't wait till I can ditch the 4-digit code on my personal phone and iPad.....and MacBook Air and iMac....
Does the fingerprint scanner suffice for phones on exchange that require a password? noone here at work has a phone with fingerprint scanner.
If exchange still forces me to use a passcode, meh. For example, pattern and face unlock are deemed not strong enough and not allowed by default.
My '11 laptop has a scanner it's allright, more of a novelty imo, think it is more suited to mobile devices you are constantly unlocking.
If exchange still forces me to use a passcode, meh. For example, pattern and face unlock are deemed not strong enough and not allowed by default.
My '11 laptop has a scanner it's allright, more of a novelty imo, think it is more suited to mobile devices you are constantly unlocking.
I'm not sure I follow you.....
My 5S is my work device and my work email is on an exchange server - but I don't have to ever enter a password. Our IT department PREFERS that we use a complex passcode, but no one does except for me. And that's only because I have TouchID to bypass it.
As far as being able to use TouchID to access other things, at this point in time it can only be used to unlock the device and authenticate your AppleID password for iTunes and App Store purchases. It's been discussed A LOT in this thread, but there are various reasons for this - the main one being the unavailability of the fingerprint data to anyone - even to Apple. It's stored in a secure enclave within the A7 chip itself and isn't made available to the OS.
I fully expect Apple to open it up when they can guarantee the security remains at an acceptable level. Its not that they don't trust third party developers - they don't even trust iOS with the info at this point (for instance I can't use TouchID to lock photo albums).
More functionality is coming. At this point, TouchID works perfectly as advertised. Once they get it onto more devices (iPhone 6, iPod touch perhaps, iPad Air/mini), they'll expand the feature set. As vomhorizon has pointed out, they are also working on a payment solution in house which takes time as they have to negotiate with retailers on the back end versus simply signing an agreement with one provider as Samsung did with PayPal.
Cool, so touchID does seem to suffice as a replacement for password for exchange. I would be interested in that on my phone for sure. Or is touchID really just typing in the password for you, so exchange thinks you are passcoded? -essentially fooling the server. That's a nifty workaround (maybe questionable) so admin's could never disable touchid from the exchange server side, if that is the case. It's sounding like touchID is 'inputting' your complex passcode to unlock your device, then the phone is telling the exchange server you have a complex passcode (rather than 'really' using touchid). I wonder how it will work on android, I feel like people would be up in arms if samsung used that method 
.
this is a stretch, but bear with me..
android could have implemented pattern unlock in a similar fashion where the pattern unlock 'types in' a complex password that satisfies exchange requirements. Obviously it is inherently less secure than a fingerprint.. just making a point
.this is a stretch, but bear with me..
android could have implemented pattern unlock in a similar fashion where the pattern unlock 'types in' a complex password that satisfies exchange requirements. Obviously it is inherently less secure than a fingerprint.. just making a point
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I'm still confused - are you saying when you unlock your phone you have to log in via some Exchange server as well?
If I swipe to unlock and then use TouchID, it does LOOK like its simply inputting my complex password for me, but I think that's more of a design choice than what is actually happening. The sensor takes the data from my finger and compares it to the encrypted hashed data stored in the enclave to authenticate me.
Probably more complicated than that but I'm not an expert and that's the simple way I saw it explained.
Edit: Here's Apple's explanation of TouchID.
Talking about how upon joining an exchange server, a phone is forced to use a passcode. Not talking about logging into the account in mail or whatnot.
Its really just semantics, I'm wondering whether the exchange server thinks you are using touchid, or actually inputting your passcode.
Hmm - well I wouldn't know about that. TouchID can't be used for anything other than unlocking the device and authenticating purchases on iTunes and the App Store.
The secure enclave won't allow the fingerprint data to be seen by iOS or any other apps.
That doesn't mean it couldn't change in the future.
As far as I know though, Samsung's implementation only extends to unlocking the device, purchasing via PayPal and locking specific apps (photos I believe).
I guess the better question is whether or not an admin can disable employees from using touchID. It's sounding like they cant, since touchID is really just a vehicle that enters the passcode. I would wager the server just views the iphone as a passcoded device, and doesnt know a thing about whether or not touchid is being used. You could almost construe that as circumventing exchange security policies
Its not just a vehicle to enter the passcode. I said it only LOOKS like that's what's happening.....but that is simply a design choice.
Read that Apple support link I shared. I don't think an admin can disable TouchID though....don't think they'd want to anyhow.
No third party app can disable Touch ID as far as I know, the data or one's information is saved on the secure enclave of the A7 chip and never shared with any app or third party.
It's not particularly clear on how touchid interacts with exchange in the article. Some admin's love to disable everything
I agree though and would push to leave it enabled. I'm just surprised there doesnt seem to be controls there.
It's not particularly clear on how touchid interacts with exchange in the article. Some admin's love to disable everything
It doesn't interact with exchange AT ALL. TouchID is ONLY used for two purposes - unlocking the device itself and authenticating purchases on iTunes and the App Store.
That's it. The secure enclave will not interact with any app, service, iOS or server.
Now as far as disabling TouchID as a means of unlocking the device - I don't know if there is a way to do so in an enterprise setting. But like I said - would seem counter intuitive to do so as requiring a fingerprint and complex pass code is just about the most secure way to lock a device.
The pass code is only used if the device is restarted, has not been used for more than 48 hours or has registered 5 incorrect TouchID attempts.
Check out the third post in this thread - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1636322/
He's saying what I'm saying. That since utilizing TouchID requires a passcode "backup" as well, you'd likely be able to use TouchID because the passcode is still in place. Now TouchID isn't simply typing in your passcode for you, its matching mathematical data of your fingerprint with what is stored on the secure enclave and using that authentication to let you in.
You can only to use TouchID for iTunes and app store purchases. I do not think Apple will open TouchID to be used the way you describe. Exchange is an MS product. I do not see this kind of functionality/partnership ever happening.
thats not what I'm saying though.
It appears that touchID satisfies the exchange requirement to have a passcoded device. What I'm trying to figure out is if touchID counts as a passcode (from exchange's perspective). I'm, not talking about logging into exchange.
It appears that touchID satisfies the exchange requirement to have a passcoded device. What I'm trying to figure out is if touchID counts as a passcode (from exchange's perspective). I'm, not talking about logging into exchange.
Yup you got it
I was admittedly confused at first, but now I see what you're saying and that thread clears it up.