iPhone 14 Pro Max Why do Europeans complain about non-existent price increases?

[fatTribble]

If your point is that people shouldn’t blame Apple for the price increase, I get it and agree. But most people aren’t going to investigate why a price goes up.

Regardless of the reason, its common to complain about price increases.

 

[RSB96]

On the one hand I understand that Apple has to pass on part of the currency exchange to European consumers. Right now the euro is weaker than ever and in the end companies are not UNICEF, so to maintain their margins, they will have to adjust the price to inflation.

However, we are talking about an increase of at least 200 euros, and the more expensive it is, the higher the difference, reaching an increase of almost 450 euros in the most expensive version.

To this we add the price increases to things to which absolutely nothing has changed, such as the SE, which after the September presentation has gone from 529 euros to 559 euros or the AirPods 3, which have gone up 10 euros in price without any change in performance. Already in summer we saw in Europe the price increase to an OLD model, such as the MacBook Air M1, of 100 euros.

Then in the iPhone line has been totally unbalanced in Europe. In Spain, we have the "base" iPhone, for 559 euros, but the iPhone 12, 13 mini and 13 have not dropped in price, as if they have done in the US. So we went from 559 euros for a phone with an obsolete design, to an iPhone 12 at the same price as last year (809 euros), a 13 mini at the same price as last year (809 euros) and a 13 at the same price as last year (909 euros).

While in the US the range is perfectly distributed in the price scale, in Europe that has not happened, with the price of the 13 going up by 100 euros compared to the 14, and between 200-400 euros for the 14 Pro compared to the 13 Pro.

In the end, for political reasons, which I will not discuss, we have a poorer and less prosperous Europe, with less purchasing power and products (not only Apple products) more and more expensive.

 

[theluggage]

I'd rather pay a little less up front, then skip the entirely unnecessary extended warranty. As a consumer, I prefer choice.

I'm all for choice between viable alternatives - "any defects on a premium ££££ product that don't show up for a year are your problem" doesn't strike me as a viable alternative. It's not like we're being forced to buy AppleCare+ with accidental damage/battery replacement etc. - just a reasonable commitment to product quality and longevity. Failures in the year or two after Apple's usual 1-year warranty are relatively rare anyway (see "bathtub curve") - which is why regular extended warranties are such a bad deal, unless they give you extra accidental damage/battery replacement cover.

The cost to Apple of the EU/UK statutory warranty can't be that high (its only one of many factors in the US vs EU/UK price difference), and making it statutory means it has to be rolled into the sticker price & kept down by competition - whereas overpriced extended warranties can be snuck in as a hidden extra after the deal is sealed.

Not in the UK. Whenever I’ve had issues with Apple products I have been referred to Apple who have taken in the replacement process even if I bought the iPhone through a carrier.

That's just Apple offering good customer service because they give a damn about their brand image. NoNameMcBrandface could and would refuse to deal with the public and bounce you straight back to the merchant.

What's this talk of a mandatory 3 year warranty in Europe? I paid extra for AppleCare+ on my watch in the UK, only to go in in the store 2 weeks ago after less than 3 years, to find it's expired and it's only 3 years on computers, AC+ is only 2 years on a watch/phone, and I paid extra for that!!!

The EU/UK mandatory warranty has nothing to do with AppleCare+ and is only against "manufacturing defects" which could include not being reasonably durable and dying for no good reason after a couple of years - but won't cover accidental damage, battery replacement etc. You can easily look up the details online. The value of AppleCare+ in the UK/EU is mainly accidental damage and battery replacement. If you've dropped it, smashed the glass or the battery has lost its mojo you're probably out of luck. If it's just died for no good reason it might be worth doing some research to see if the problem is widespread and could be a manufacturing defect - but on a 3 year old product you'd need to prove that.

 

[VampyricGentleman]

But going by plane involves an hour or two of faffing about while doing 0 mph at either end, and usually a longer trip to the airport c.f. a train station, let along going door to door in a car. For journeys less than 300 miles or so, ground transport tends to have the time advantage unless you’re lucky with routes and schedules. I guess US vs. Europe partly comes down to distances and population density.

Population density is a very valid issue with trains. For example from my town to the big city 25 miles down the road, it takes 1 hour 7 minutes on the train, because of the number of stops the train has to make.

 

[OllyW]

I bought forward my iPad update plans this week due to the current weak exchange rate between the Pound and Dollar. The iPad Air I had been planning to get costs £569 at the moment, which I’m sure will be adjusted when the new iPad Pro models are released in the next few weeks.
If you convert the US price of $599 and just add on the VAT, it comes out at around £650 so I can’t see Apple taking that big a hit to their bottom line for much longer. The new iPhone prices are a clear sign of what’s on the way.

 

[theluggage]

Population density is a very valid issue with trains. For example from my town to the big city 25 miles down the road, it takes 1 hour 7 minutes on the train, because of the number of stops the train has to make.

...and a plane could cover 25 miles in a couple of minutes... plus an hour of faffing around on the ground... plus it is 12 miles to my nearest airport and more like 50 to the nearest airport likely to have a flight to anywhere I need to go.

The problem with your train journey is that a properly run train service (that had been properly maintained and invested in, rather than neglected in favour of roads) would have a proper mix of express and stopping services.

 

[VampyricGentleman]

...and a plane could cover 25 miles in a couple of minutes... plus an hour of faffing around on the ground... plus it is 12 miles to my nearest airport and more like 50 to the nearest airport likely to have a flight to anywhere I need to go.

The problem with your train journey is that a properly run train service (that had been properly maintained and invested in, rather than neglected in favour of roads) would have a proper mix of express and stopping services.

30 miles to my nearest airport and 67 miles to the airport to almost anywhere outside of the UK and Ireland I’d want to go beyond those borders. We get two trains an hour here, it’s not the neglect it’s the geography I am surrounded by. I live in what is best described as a ribbon community, right at the top of it. It takes over half an hour for me to get to the station and half an hour to leave the town on the train. But yes it’s all frustrating

 

[lordhamster]

I'm all for choice between viable alternatives - "any defects on a premium ££££ product that don't show up for a year are your problem" doesn't strike me as a viable alternative. It's not like we're being forced to buy AppleCare+ with accidental damage/battery replacement etc. - just a reasonable commitment to product quality and longevity. Failures in the year or two after Apple's usual 1-year warranty are relatively rare anyway (see "bathtub curve") - which is why regular extended warranties are such a bad deal, unless they give you extra accidental damage/battery replacement cover.

The cost to Apple of the EU/UK statutory warranty can't be that high (its only one of many factors in the US vs EU/UK price difference), and making it statutory means it has to be rolled into the sticker price & kept down by competition - whereas overpriced extended warranties can be snuck in as a hidden extra after the deal is sealed.

I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the US, I have literally dozens of warranty options should I choose to buy one. None of them are "hidden" in any way, in ALL of them require one time lump payment, or recurring payments. I don't know how someone could NOT be aware of purchasing one so they are in no way hidden.

That said... Rather than paying $9.99/month for Apple care, I could just put that cash aside and save ~$120/ year. Assuming the first year is covered under standard warranty, then assuming the problem occurs during the second year, I should have ~180 squirrel away for a repair.

In my experience (buying mobile phones since they were literally bolted into cars in 1991), I've never once had a warranty issue. Meaning... over my phone buying life, I've saved $3,720. Which would be more than adequate to pay cash to replace a broken phone should I need to. Not to mention that for many scenarios other insurances may cover any loss, such as homeowners, credit card purchase insurance etc.

Long story short... if I can save as little as $10 by not having statutory warranties or buying aftermarket insurance, I come out way ahead. If I don't feel comfortable, there are dozens of other 3rd party warranties/insurances I can buy for my devices should I choose to.

Gotta say, I'm still firmly in favor of having a choice rather than some yahoo in Parliament thinking they need to make decisions for me.

Funny skit regarding extended warranties:

 

[JPack]

Across Europe, the VAT rate is about 20%. This tax is embedded in the price of all Apple products. If the tax went from 20% to 30%, would people still consider this as a price increase? Currency exchange is very similar.

Like it or not, iPhone is an imported product. You are paying for a U.S. product that is made largely from U.S. inputs sold by a company headquartered in the U.S. The fact is, you are paying in USD. The localized prices listed by Apple are simply for consumer convenience.

Apple's inputs include hardware/software R&D paid in U.S. dollars, components and labor paid in Chinese Yuan, display assemblies paid in Korean Won, chips paid in New Taiwan dollars, etc. There are virtually no European contributions to the iPhone. So the expectation that Apple should accommodate and eat some of the exchange difference is silly. Some tier-2 manufacturers are willing to do that, but not Apple because iPhone demand is relatively inelastic.

The price of iPhone 14/Pro has not increased in China, Canada, India, or a number of other countries. So the idea that this issue is "U.S. vs. the world" is not true.

The global buying power of EUR and GBP has decreased significantly over the past 6-8 months and will likely go further down. Instead of pointing to Apple, it might be better to ask what actions should or shouldn't have been taken which resulted in the erosion of this buying power.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Across Europe, the VAT rate is about 20%. This tax is embedded in the price of all Apple products. If the tax went from 20% to 30%, would people still consider this as a price increase? Currency exchange is very similar.

Like it or not, iPhone is an imported product. You are paying for a U.S. product that is made largely from U.S. inputs sold by a company headquartered in the U.S. The fact is, you are paying in USD. The localized prices listed by Apple are simply for consumer convenience.

Apple's inputs include hardware/software R&D paid in U.S. dollars, components and labor paid in Chinese Yuan, display assemblies paid in Korean Won, chips paid in New Taiwan dollars, etc. There are virtually no European contributions to the iPhone. So the expectation that Apple should accommodate and eat some of the exchange difference is silly. Some tier-2 manufacturers are willing to do that, but not Apple because iPhone demand is relatively inelastic.

The price of iPhone 14/Pro has not increased in China, Canada, India, or a number of other countries. So the idea that this issue is "U.S. vs. the world" is not true.

The global buying power of EUR and GBP has decreased significantly over the past 6-8 months and will likely go further down. Instead of pointing to Apple, it might be better to ask what actions should or shouldn't have been taken which resulted in the erosion of this buying power.

Apple are the only ones that lose out ultimately because people either won’t buy the new devices or will keep older iPhones longer. This is already becoming common in markets where prices are increasing. Everybody understands why prices are going up which is why it’s wise to read through your own thread.

 

[JPack]

Apple are the only ones that lose out ultimately because people either won’t buy the new devices or will keep older iPhones longer. This is already becoming common in markets where prices are increasing. Everybody understands why prices are going up which is why it’s wise to read through your own thread.

So far, the data suggests increased revenue for Apple. Of course, this may change early next year.

iPhone 14 orders down 38% compared to iPhone 13 - 9to5Mac

We’ve heard quite a bit about how the iPhone 14 Pro models are selling better than the rest of the...

9to5mac.com

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So far, the data suggests increased revenue for Apple. Of course, this may change early next year.

View attachment 2084813

iPhone 14 orders down 38% compared to iPhone 13 - 9to5Mac

We’ve heard quite a bit about how the iPhone 14 Pro models are selling better than the rest of the...

9to5mac.com

Good for Apple. They’d have even more if Europe wasn’t in recession and people were buying record numbers of iPhones.

 

[Hatshepsut]

I've come across a few posts where it is claimed iPhone 14 prices have increased significantly. But this simply isn't true when you convert euros back to USD. Do people expect Apple to eat the currency exchange difference? We know the benchmark USD prices for iPhone 14 series. They do not include any sales taxes.

• iPhone 14 128GB - $829
• iPhone 14 Pro 128GB - $999
• iPhone 14 Pro Max 128GB - $1,099

Let's see what these prices look like on Apple Store Ireland for example:

• iPhone 14 128GB - €1,029.00 (Includes VAT of €192.41) | €836.59 = $804
• iPhone 14 Pro 128GB - €1,339.00 (Includes VAT of €250.38) | €1088.65 = $1,045
• iPhone 14 Pro Max 128GB - €1,489.00 (Includes VAT of €278.43) | €1210.57 = $1,163

View attachment 2082843

And does Apple lower the price when the currency exchange rate is favorable to the euro? No, you say? Then that's why people are complaining--they are expected to eat the cost either way.

 

[JPack]

And does Apple lower the price when the currency exchange rate is favorable to the euro? No, you say? Then that's why people are complaining--they are expected to eat the cost either way.

Yes, they do. Let's look at the last couple times the euro was high.

2014 - iPhone 6 $649 | €587 before VAT
2018 - iPhone Xs $999 | €965 before VAT

 

[Saladin12]

And does Apple lower the price when the currency exchange rate is favorable to the euro? No, you say? Then that's why people are complaining--they are expected to eat the cost either way.

Actually to be fair to Apple they did lower the cost of the iPhone in the U.K. last year. The iPhone 12 Pro was £999 at launch but the iPhone 13 Pro was £949 at launch. iPhone 14 Pro was £1099

 

[4389842]

That said, they also get a ****-ton of "free" benefits that I have to pay for. None of this is reflected in this nonsensical chart.

You live in a democracy and can vote for change…

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Likewise, in Europe, my colleagues doing the exact same job as I do make significantly less on their paychecks.... thus a phone would be a larger chunk of their income. That said, they also get a ****-ton of "free" benefits that I have to pay for. None of this is reflected in this nonsensical chart.

Out of interest, what percentage of Americans/Australians/Asians monthly salary is income tax, national insurance (or equivalent)??

 

[deeddawg]

Out of interest, what percentage of Americans/Australians/Asians monthly salary is income tax, national insurance (or equivalent)??

This site seems to provide a fairly decent amount of info on the topic. Rates for income tax of course vary by wage in most places. https://www.movehub.com/advice/tax-comparisons-around-the-world/

Note that state income tax rates vary (mine is 5.5%) and there are some local county or city jurisdictions in other states with their own additional income tax.

It seems that that Social Security (US) and National Insurance rates are the same. US does have an additional Federal Medicare tax of 2.9% - half paid by the employer and half by the employee. This sort of system effectively hides half of the tax since the employer paid portion doesn't appear on wage statements.

In the US, health insurance is an additional cost and will vary by what plans different employers offer. Mine offers individual coverage plans ranging from $220/mo to $290/mo, or $400 to $600/mo to cover both my wife and I. Plans to cover children are higher but I don't have the numbers hand. This also just represents my contribution - there's some portion funded by the employer.

Net of all this is that comparisons between different countries is complicated.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

This site seems to provide a fairly decent amount of info on the topic. Rates for income tax of course vary by wage in most places. https://www.movehub.com/advice/tax-comparisons-around-the-world/

Note that state income tax rates vary (mine is 5.5%) and there are some local county or city jurisdictions in other states with their own additional income tax.

It seems that that Social Security (US) and National Insurance rates are the same. US does have an additional Federal Medicare tax of 2.9% - half paid by the employer and half by the employee. This sort of system effectively hides half of the tax since the employer paid portion doesn't appear on wage statements.

In the US, health insurance is an additional cost and will vary by what plans different employers offer. Mine offers individual coverage plans ranging from $220/mo to $290/mo, or $400 to $600/mo to cover both my wife and I. Plans to cover children are higher but I don't have the numbers hand. This also just represents my contribution - there's some portion funded by the employer.

Net of all this is that comparisons between different countries is complicated.

Thanks that’s interesting. I see often on here that Americans say in the UK we have ‘free healthcare’ whereas they have to pay into a plan but 31.8% of my monthly wage is taken off me in income tax and national insurance. This is worth noting for everybody also saying we only pay 20% VAT on all purchases too. We pay an alcohol and sugar tax also. It’s not as cheap in the UK or parts of Europe as people on the other side of the pond want to believe.

 

[rcopus]

I don’t pretend to understand all of this but…

I thought Apple didn’t repatriate its off-shore profits to the US because it wanted to evade tax.
Therefore what difference does the strength of the dollar have to do with anything? The iPhone isn’t even manufactured in the US, there merely have a campus and some employees in the US.

So there are barely any costs related to getting that phone in the hands of a non-US consumer other than some people in Cupertino, where if the US economy is doing so brilliantly, hasn’t affected the costs very much at all.

Yet the non-US cost increases. Think it’s just a lame excuse to be honest. If the operating costs have gone up then the US prices should have increased by the same magnitude.

 

[JPack]

I don’t pretend to understand all of this but…

I thought Apple didn’t repatriate its off-shore profits to the US because it wanted to evade tax.
Therefore what difference does the strength of the dollar have to do with anything? The iPhone isn’t even manufactured in the US, there merely have a campus and some employees in the US.

So there are barely any costs related to getting that phone in the hands of a non-US consumer other than some people in Cupertino, where if the US economy is doing so brilliantly, hasn’t affected the costs very much at all.

Yet the non-US cost increases. Think it’s just a lame excuse to be honest. If the operating costs have gone up then the US prices should have increased by the same magnitude.

The euro and GBP are weak against USD, RMB, NTD, and most other currencies.

Apple engineers want USD for their work in R&D. Chinese BOE engineers and component suppliers want RMB for their goods. TSMC engineers want NTD for their work in desgining the N4 fab process.

 

[Matthew.H]

The biggest sign of how the higher prices outside the US affect sales over time will simply come down to the numbers. In the UK we are in a cost of living crisis and a new phone is going to be very far down on most people's list of priorities if their current phone works fine.
I have upgraded this year from a base 12 Pro to the 256GB 14 Pro and after selling the old phone it's cost around £750 to upgrade. I buy my phones outright and have a separate SIM only plan.

With the increased costs for pretty much everything, fuel prices especially which will effect a lot of people in the coming months, spending hundred's or more over a contract or outright may well make a lot of people decide to keep there current phone longer and get a SIM only plan to save money.

 

[avalon68]

It’s not a price increase when it’s due to currency exchange, no matter how you want to classify a “price increase”.

Apple is an American corporation and does business in USD.

If you’re not happy about the prices, look at your own countries economic and currency policies and complain to your political establishment not at Apple.

Apple also has an EU headquarters in Dublin - where it takes advantage of very low corporate taxes, all the while fleecing its EU customers. Lets not forget that currency devaluation is recent - apple has ben screwing people outside the USA for a very long time with its pricing.

 

[madeirabhoy]

I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the US, I have literally dozens of warranty options should I choose to buy one. None of them are "hidden" in any way, in ALL of them require one time lump payment, or recurring payments. I don't know how someone could NOT be aware of purchasing one so they are in no way hidden.

That said... Rather than paying $9.99/month for Apple care, I could just put that cash aside and save ~$120/ year. Assuming the first year is covered under standard warranty, then assuming the problem occurs during the second year, I should have ~180 squirrel away for a repair.

In my experience (buying mobile phones since they were literally bolted into cars in 1991), I've never once had a warranty issue. Meaning... over my phone buying life, I've saved $3,720. Which would be more than adequate to pay cash to replace a broken phone should I need to. Not to mention that for many scenarios other insurances may cover any loss, such as homeowners, credit card purchase insurance etc.

Long story short... if I can save as little as $10 by not having statutory warranties or buying aftermarket insurance, I come out way ahead. If I don't feel comfortable, there are dozens of other 3rd party warranties/insurances I can buy for my devices should I choose to.

Gotta say, I'm still firmly in favor of having a choice rather than some yahoo in Parliament thinking they need to make decisions for me.

Funny skit regarding extended warranties:

I hate to break this to you. That applecare costs $10 doesn’t mean it costs apple $10. They haven’t costed in $10 a month into european prices. Having consumer protection is a good thing not a bad thing.

 

[madeirabhoy]

If apple sell most of their iPhones outside of America. And make all of them outside of America. Using components they bought outside of America.

If the dollar is strong. Surely the prices should have remained steady outside of America and dropped in the motherland ?