Why do some continue using Microsoft Office on Mac?

[KennyJr]

I remember my training department being given part time use of our manufacturing facility's new DEC word processor. The first instructor to use it swore he would never develop another course without a word processor. That was just the beginning. When IBM came out with the PC I got one for each instructor/course developer using Word Star then Word Perfect word processor software.

Nowadays I normally just use TextEdit as my word processor but I use MS Word for more formal writing and Excel for my spreadsheets (I returned to MS Office after Microsoft dropped 'Clippy', an obnoxious teaching assistant).

Apple's iWork is good for people who like to file procedures away and then search for them when needed, but I far prefer to have those procedures right there at my fingertips. MS Office is straight forward with each and every activity right there, visually accessible on demand.

And for what it's worth, if Microsoft decides to tick me off again there's always LibreOffice, it's free and in my experience, it's quite good.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

I have used so many word processors and spreadsheets over the years and honestly, I HATE Word. I don't fine Pages all that exciting but it functions reasonably well. A strip down version of LibreOffice or similar would be more than enough for most people. Looking back - WordStar in the earliest DOS days, Word Perfect (DOS version), and for Windows 3x the best of the bunch was Ami Pro... If I have to write anything now, I use very little formating that can get screwed up if it must be save to a docx format. Pages and text editors is all I use now.

While I have Office, iWork and LibreOffice, I much prefer to use LibreOffice Writer when I need to use a word processor.

Like you, I started with WordStar, progressed to Word Perfect, then to MacWrite Pro and ClarisWorks. For work purposes I have used MS Word extensively (Mac and Windows). The .doc file format is, and always will be very flakey. A hundred page Word document, edited many times (as it would be) is guaranteed to become corrupted. The .docx format is more robust, but still not as robust as LibreOffice's .odt.

You can always write a document in LibreOffice, saving it as .odt, then when you are finished, save it as .docx for Word compatibility.

 

[MacBH928]

I find Apple's iWork far superior to Microsoft Office and any other imitation office suite out there.

I find it easier to use but you reach a point where Office is more capable. For example, the Mail Merge option is much more configurable in Office than in Pages. I also found a need to use Power BI (or something like that) to interpret data. I had someone do it for me.

MS Office is ugly, but the only one with advanced capability AFAIK.

If it uses Java, it is automatically excluded from running on my computer. I value my time more so I have not evaluated other suites extensively. I am getting to the point where I want to force those that I collaborate with to use Apple iWork instead of Microsoft Office.

How do you know if the app uses java if its closed source and how does it affect you as a user?

While I have Office, iWork and LibreOffice, I much prefer to use LibreOffice Writer when I need to use a word processor.

Like you, I started with WordStar, progressed to Word Perfect, then to MacWrite Pro and ClarisWorks. For work purposes I have used MS Word extensively (Mac and Windows). The .doc file format is, and always will be very flakey. A hundred page Word document, edited many times (as it would be) is guaranteed to become corrupted. The .docx format is more robust, but still not as robust as LibreOffice's .odt.

You can always write a document in LibreOffice, saving it as .odt, then when you are finished, save it as .docx for Word compatibility.

My problem with LibreOffice is the GUI is just too ugly and doing advanced things seem harder than on Office. Of course, when its free you can't complain.

 

[bzgnyc2]

There are people either forced to collaborate with others that only use Microsoft Office because they are either forced to by their employer, or they just do not know any better. I find Apple's iWork far superior to Microsoft Office and any other imitation office suite out there. If it uses Java, it is automatically excluded from running on my computer. I value my time more so I have not evaluated other suites extensively. I am getting to the point where I want to force those that I collaborate with to use Apple iWork instead of Microsoft Office.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

 

[jlc1978]

There are people either forced to collaborate with others that only use Microsoft Office because they are either forced to by their employer, or they just do not know any better. I find Apple's iWork far superior to Microsoft Office and any other imitation office suite out there.

VBA makes Office a powerful tool and is not matched in iWork; with VBA you can, for example, build a performance dashboard and automatically change statues, colors, etc. when data is updated. With Excel Live you can simultaneously collaborate remotely on the same spreadsheet.

It would be great if Apple built in those features and made iWorks cross - platform so you could share documents seamlessly; but that is not a market Apple targets, so iWorks remains a very good office suite but not one for many users who use Office's advanced capabilities.

You can always write a document in LibreOffice, saving it as .odt, then when you are finished, save it as .docx for Word compatibility.

Unfortunately, my experience with that is you are not assured the document will look exactly the same in Word; although in all fairness, a similar issue can occur between the Mac and Windows version of Word as well.

My problem with LibreOffice is the GUI is just too ugly and doing advanced things seem harder than on Office.

That seems to be a thing with a lot of FOSS, the GUI is not an area of interest so it is just a copy of whatever MS/Adobe/etc. does; let alone having it tailored to a specific OS' GUI guidelines.

Of course, when its free you can't complain.

This is the internet; you can always complain loudly and often.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

Unless that man is Don Quixote ...

 

[ronjon10]

I'm surprised anyone uses Numbers or Pages. I use MS Office at work, and google Docs for personal stuff.

 

[polyphenol]

I'm surprised anyone uses Numbers or Pages. I use MS Office at work, and google Docs for personal stuff.

I had too many issues with Word on macOS which meant I had to do some things in Windows. But that, too, had issues. And LibreOffice did not help.

I ended up converting some documents to pages and resolving the actual issues I had been having. But I would be even happier if Pages were available on Windows as well!

 

[phrehdd]

I had too many issues with Word on macOS which meant I had to do some things in Windows. But that, too, had issues. And LibreOffice did not help.

I ended up converting some documents to pages and resolving the actual issues I had been having. But I would be even happier if Pages were available on Windows as well!

That is an interesting thought there about Pages ported over to Windows. I find the main issue with the suite itself is that Apple seems to not put effort in upgrading it and making the apps more powerful or better with scripts and the like. It is a shame. With the number of students using Macs, one would hope they would want to capture that market or rather, make the suite more accessible to all.

 

[shakopeemn]

I remember my training department being given part time use of our manufacturing facility's new DEC word processor. The first instructor to use it swore he would never develop another course without a word processor. That was just the beginning. When IBM came out with the PC I got one for each instructor/course developer using Word Star then Word Perfect word processor software.

I remember the DEC with the 12? inch floppy disks! The machine literally clunked as it worked.

 

[polyphenol]

That is an interesting thought there about Pages ported over to Windows. I find the main issue with the suite itself is that Apple seems to not put effort in upgrading it and making the apps more powerful or better with scripts and the like. It is a shame. With the number of students using Macs, one would hope they would want to capture that market or rather, make the suite more accessible to all.

I can't remember a single thing that has changed, but Pages has certainly had some slight changes and fixes in the time I've been using it. Certainly seems faster (on the same machines).

But I do agree that there are things that could be developed and enhanced.

 

[mk313]

That is an interesting thought there about Pages ported over to Windows. I find the main issue with the suite itself is that Apple seems to not put effort in upgrading it and making the apps more powerful or better with scripts and the like. It is a shame. With the number of students using Macs, one would hope they would want to capture that market or rather, make the suite more accessible to all.

I don't think Apple really wants to make their software suite all that great. They needed to put out something that the average user could use & be happy with (especially on the iPad back in the day when there were no Microsoft Office apps for iPad), but they also don't want to scare off development of Microsoft Office. The last time Microsoft threatened to pull Office from the Mac, it almost brought the company down. But Steve came back, patched things up & MS has continued to provide it since then. There would be less demand for it if Apple created a fully featured competitor.

Apple doesn't make money off of their office suite and I'd venture they are really happy with the marketshare for it as is.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

I find it easier to use but you reach a point where Office is more capable. For example, the Mail Merge option is much more configurable in Office than in Pages. I also found a need to use Power BI (or something like that) to interpret data. I had someone do it for me.

MS Office is ugly, but the only one with advanced capability AFAIK.



How do you know if the app uses java if its closed source and how does it affect you as a user?



My problem with LibreOffice is the GUI is just too ugly and doing advanced things seem harder than on Office. Of course, when its free you can't complain.

Unlike Office, you can change the GUI to look like what you want, to the point of mimicking Office if you want.

My biggest problem with Word is that the documents can become corrupted to the point of being unrecoverable. For this reason, I always used to use 'Save As' to make a new version of a document at the end of every day. That way, I could always go back to the previous day's version. As well, doing a 'Save As' in Word re-writes the document in order after all your edits which also makes the document more stable. I have never had to do this with any other word processor over 40 years of providing computer tech support with Windows, Mac and several other operating systems.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Also, iWork is not a competitor to Office, it is an alternative for those who want something less complex, and who wish to stay in the Apple digital ecosystem.

LibreOffice is a competitor to Office, but is designed for single user use. Office is designed for use in an office, where collaboration is important and tech support isn't far away.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

...

Unfortunately, my experience with that is you are not assured the document will look exactly the same in Word; although in all fairness, a similar issue can occur between the Mac and Windows version of Word as well.

...

The issue there is Word. It has never been able to kern letters properly, nor break lines properly, nor space out lines on a page properly. This has improved over the years, especially with the new fonts (Calibri, etc) but it is still not perfect.

I used to improve things by going into Styles and tightening up the kerning a little, but that doesn't seem to work any more.

 

[jlc1978]

The issue there is Word. It has never been able to kern letters properly, nor break lines properly, nor space out lines on a page properly. This has improved over the years, especially with the new fonts (Calibri, etc) but it is still not perfect.

I used to improve things by going into Styles and tightening up the kerning a little, but that doesn't seem to work any more.

Perhaps, but the reality is most of teh business world uses Word so you have to meet them where they are.

 

[phrehdd]

I don't think Apple really wants to make their software suite all that great. They needed to put out something that the average user could use & be happy with (especially on the iPad back in the day when there were no Microsoft Office apps for iPad), but they also don't want to scare off development of Microsoft Office. The last time Microsoft threatened to pull Office from the Mac, it almost brought the company down. But Steve came back, patched things up & MS has continued to provide it since then. There would be less demand for it if Apple created a fully featured competitor.

Apple doesn't make money off of their office suite and I'd venture they are really happy with the marketshare for it as is.

Perhaps your point about "as is" sums it up. In today's world, Apple could put out a suite that in time would compete with Microsoft. After all, look at the leaps and bounds Google made with their less-than-stellar offerings by making them highly accessible and easy to use. The only advantage of Office Suite is when complex items are desirable. Again, given the number of students that use Apple, they could make a splash. Getting back to your statement, it seems to be aligned with exactly what is going on today with "as is" where the market is concerned.

I suppose with AI for writing, much of this will not be a problem for any camp with a word processor.

 

[leifp]

The issue there is Word. It has never been able to kern letters properly, nor break lines properly, nor space out lines on a page properly. This has improved over the years, especially with the new fonts (Calibri, etc) but it is still not perfect.

I used to improve things by going into Styles and tightening up the kerning a little, but that doesn't seem to work any more.

I wrote my Masters thesis in Pages, back before Apple consolidated the macOS and iOS versions. Since then it’s been little to no use to me… that old Pages had a dual layout available: word processor and page layout.

 

[galad]

Page layout has been added back.

 

[leifp]

Page layout has been added back.

Made me check! So it is. Wonder if it’s any good? I’ve stopped using Pages for pretty much anything for over a decade as it was a killjoy to use (I use it as a glorified Notes app). I’ll probably never find out. I use Word and Open/LibreOffice for general word processing and Scrivener for longer writing. They excel at their tasks. Cough

 

[polyphenol]

Also, iWork is not a competitor to Office, it is an alternative for those who want something less complex, and who wish to stay in the Apple digital ecosystem.

LibreOffice is a competitor to Office, but is designed for single user use. Office is designed for use in an office, where collaboration is important and tech support isn't far away.

Apple's offering is massively better than the entirely unmissed Microsoft Works...

 

[monokakata]

I remember the DEC with the 12? inch floppy disks! The machine literally clunked as it worked.

The biggest floppies ever were 8" (I used them for a long time in a DEC PDP-11 system). The DEC word processor you're remembering was probably a Rainbow, which used 5.25" floppies. It was a very interesting machine -- a Z80 and an 8086 (or 8088? I can't remember) but in any case it could run MS-DOS and CP/M, so it covered the bases for personal users in those days. We had one in our department. It wasn't great, but it did the job. This would have been in the early-mid 1980s.

 

[MacBH928]

That seems to be a thing with a lot of FOSS, the GUI is not an area of interest so it is just a copy of whatever MS/Adobe/etc. does; let alone having it tailored to a specific OS' GUI guidelines.

I mean... look at it... something doesn't feel pleasing about it.

 

[bzgnyc2]

I mean... look at it... something doesn't feel pleasing about it. View attachment 2396484

I stumbled on a copy of Word 2008 the other day and it still worked (it was the drag-n-drop kind of app so didn't need to install -- just double clicked and there it was). I'm not saying it was perfect but it somehow felt much more inviting than recent versions. And logically layed out since they weren't trying frankenstein the ribbon into the Mac GUI.

 

[MacBH928]

I'm surprised anyone uses Numbers or Pages. I use MS Office at work, and google Docs for personal stuff.

I was at your position until I started using them and I found it more pleasant that MS Office. Of course for personal use not business as it is not as capable of advanced features.

I find the main issue with the suite itself is that Apple seems to not put effort in upgrading it and making the apps more powerful or better with scripts and the like. It is a shame. With the number of students using Macs, one would hope they would want to capture that market or rather, make the suite more accessible to all.

Apple with pages are exactly where they want to be. A free app that makes Apple users not pay for Office license. Its more than enough for personal use. They do not aim to go head-to-head with Office in the business environment. Apple was never a business machine.

Unlike Office, you can change the GUI to look like what you want, to the point of mimicking Office if you want.

I will have to look into that. Last time I fiddled with the GUI , it bugged real bad.

My biggest problem with Word is that the documents can become corrupted to the point of being unrecoverable. For this reason, I always used to use 'Save As' to make a new version of a document at the end of every day. That way, I could always go back to the previous day's version. As well, doing a 'Save As' in Word re-writes the document in order after all your edits which also makes the document more stable. I have never had to do this with any other word processor over 40 years of providing computer tech support with Windows, Mac and several other operating systems.

This is scary given that near all governments and business use Office. How they have managed the corruption? I never recall getting any word processor document corrupted. I am actually more wary of LibreOffice since its FOSS and "volunteer" maintained.

I’ll probably never find out. I use Word and Open/LibreOffice for general word processing and Scrivener for longer writing. They excel at their tasks. Cough

What does Scrivener do for long writing that MS or Libre can not do ?

A quick look up says MS Word will struggle after 400 pages. I thought most/many books are written in docx. I guess maybe they write them in separate files.

 

[jfreedle2]

I'm surprised anyone uses Numbers or Pages. I use MS Office at work, and google Docs for personal stuff.

I am surprised that anyone uses Google docs for anything considering the status of Google being the world’s internet stalker and selling people’s information to advertisers.