iPad Why does iPadOS not feel like true OS?

[anthony13]

The big thing for me is still just file management. Ease of use with Dropbox and iCloud documents. Or dragging a file to another location. I understand why my CAD program doesn’t work on my iPad, and that’s fine, but when it can’t even work as a sort of mobile quick desk organizer than what are we even doing here people.

 

[Arctic Moose]

And what tasks that the iPad cannot handle that you could do in 1998? I suspect you have very specific tasks in mind... tasks that a vast majority has been requesting of it since released.

How about coding, compiling, debugging, installing, testing and distributing a full-featured native app for the platform? 🤷‍♂️

This was not something the “vast majority” of Mac users wanted to do in 1998 either, but those of us that wanted to were able to.

 

[Macintosh101]

It’s not being pedantic. He made a claim, and that claim is false.

I can export quite large logic pro files in the background on the base M4 without issue 👍🏼

 

[MacDevil7334]

The "original sin" of the iPad was that it had a phone OS running it that was designed for much smaller devices with much smaller screens and many fewer resources. Memory and power management was aggressive, and sandboxing and other rules prevented many types of applications that have existed on macOS for decades from ever being developed.

This issue was then compounded over the past 14 years by the decisions Apple made as the platform grew. Apple wanted to protect its App Store revenue at all costs. So, no side loading like on a Mac. And Tim Cook wanted to push people to spend more money by buying BOTH an iPad and a Mac. So, the iPad was never allowed to be truly Mac-like in functionality. Even when the iPad has gained Mac-like features, they have had to be implemented "the iPad way" to differentiate the two platforms. What that has meant is that features that have existed and been refined forever on the Mac (looking at you file and window management) are implemented on an iPad in a less sensible way just to keep things "different". Apple has reinvented the wheel multiple times on iPadOS rather than just implementing what we know works from the Mac.

None of this would particularly bother me, except Apple keeps trying to make the iPad more than just the tweeter device Jobs introduced in 2010. If your marketing is constantly hitting us in the head with "this thing is more powerful than 9X% of laptops out there", then dammit I should be able to access all that power and do things that are basic on a laptop, especially when the iPad is connected to the Magic Keyboard accessory. And the things iPadOS does let me do shouldn't be harder than on a Mac.

At the end of the day, I find I have to conform my usage to the limitations and weird design decisions of iPadOS anytime I try to use the device in a way closer to a laptop. By contrast, I always feel like macOS is working with me to get my work done. I don't feel like I have to fight it the way I do on the iPad. That needs to change for iPadOS to feel like a "real" OS to me. I doubt it ever will though. Cook is clearly trying to keep the iPad and Mac lines from cannibalizing each other and the design decisions on iPadOS reflect that.

 

[Ludatyk]

How about coding, compiling, debugging, installing, testing and distributing a full-featured native app for the platform? 🤷‍♂️

This was not something the “vast majority” of Mac users wanted to do in 1998 either, but those of us that wanted to were able to.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Apple introduce Swift Playgrounds for iPadOS (albeit it's not Xcode, but it's possible to do what you are suggesting with it).

 

[Kal Madda]

Even when the iPad has gained Mac-like features, they have had to be implemented "the iPad way" to differentiate the two platforms. What that has meant is that features that have existed and been refined forever on the Mac (looking at you file and window management) are implemented on an iPad in a less sensible way just to keep things "different". Apple has reinvented the wheel multiple times on iPadOS rather than just implementing what we know works from the Mac.

At the end of the day, I find I have to conform my usage to the limitations and weird design decisions of iPadOS anytime I try to use the device in a way closer to a laptop. By contrast, I always feel like macOS is working with me to get my work done. I don't feel like I have to fight it the way I do on the iPad. That needs to change for iPadOS to feel like a "real" OS to me. I doubt it ever will though. Cook is clearly trying to keep the iPad and Mac lines from cannibalizing each other and the design decisions on iPadOS reflect that.

Of course they should be implemented the “iPad way” because, after all, we’re talking about an iPad. Prime example, Stage Manager makes a lot of sense for a device with touch first interaction when not used with the keyboard. Windows are automatically overlapped, that way if you’re using the iPad as a tablet and not a laptop, you can still more readily surface windows in the stack. On a Mac, you always have a keyboard, so you can easily use a key command to tick through app windows. But this is not the case with iPads. So Stage Manager wisely makes affordances for that by exposing a little of app windows lower in the stack, so they can easily be resurfaced with a tap.

All of these Mac features should be fully touch optimized for the iPad. The iPad is a touch first device. It can have a keyboard and trackpad attached, but often it doesn’t. That’s why it’s such a flexible device. And the software needs to accommodate for all of those different uses and interactions.

 

[Kal Madda]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Apple introduce Swift Playgrounds for iPadOS (albeit it's not Xcode, but it's possible to do what you are suggesting with it).

Yes, they did. 👍🏻

 

[Zazoh]

The problem is that the iPad still cannot handle tasks that the Mac could in 1998.

Why are we still doing processes developed with 1998 tech? If it’s anything to do with programming the days of the Terminal are outdated.

 

[Bubble99]

The big thing for me is still just file management. Ease of use with Dropbox and iCloud documents. Or dragging a file to another location. I understand why my CAD program doesn’t work on my iPad, and that’s fine, but when it can’t even work as a sort of mobile quick desk organizer than what are we even doing here people.

What is wrong with the file management?

 

[heretiq]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Apple introduce Swift Playgrounds for iPadOS (albeit it's not Xcode, but it's possible to do what you are suggesting with it).

You are not mistaken. Swift Playgrounds on iPad can and has been used to create and publish iOS and iPadOS apps to the App Store. You cannot currently use it to build and publish macOS apps, but iPadOS apps can run on Apple Silicon Macs with no to minimal changes. And while you cannot build Mac apps, you can use compiler directives in iOS/iPadOS code to alter presentation and even app logic when the app is run on macOS.

Net-net: Arguments that use Xcode as an example of why iPadOS is inferior to macOS are shaky at best.

 

[Kal Madda]

What is wrong with the file management?

Yeah, I don’t get this either. The only main things I’ve heard people site is setting a default app for opening a certain file type, like setting Pages to open all .pdf files, and Word for opening all .docx files for example. And smart folders. But honestly, it’s not that hard to just use the share sheet and open the file in the app I want from Files. I’m not opposed to that feature being added obviously, but I don’t think its absence makes Files a “lousy file manager” like I hear people claiming. The UI is practically identical to Finder, and Files has the vast majority of Finders features, those two things are the only I’m aware of that Files doesn’t have.

 

[nxt3]

You are not mistaken. Swift Playgrounds on iPad can and has been used to create and publish iOS and iPadOS apps to the App Store. You cannot currently use it to build and publish macOS apps, but iPadOS apps can run on Apple Silicon Macs with no to minimal changes. And while you cannot build Mac apps, you can use compiler directives in iOS/iPadOS code to alter presentation and even app logic when the app is run on macOS.

Net-net: Arguments that use Xcode as an example of why iPadOS is inferior to macOS are shaky at best.

Agreed. Can’t run and build web apps either.

Edit: sorry I misread. I actually disagree with this. Only allowing Swift apps to be compiled makes for an OS that is majorly lacking when it comes to coding. It goes without saying the number of platforms and languages you can build for and compile. Swift is but one and you can’t even compile apps to test locally.

 

[heretiq]

Agreed. Can’t run and build web apps either.

I’m optimistic for continued, meaningful incremental improvements like we’ve seen over the past two years. We’ve gone from no real coding solution on iPadOS from Apple to a very useful Swift Playgrounds implementation that’s excellent for coding education and prototyping and usable for some app development. I’m looking forward to more of this at WWDC24.

 

[nxt3]

I’m optimistic for continued, meaningful incremental improvements like we’ve seen over the past two years. We’ve gone from no real coding solution on iPadOS from Apple to a very useful Swift Playgrounds implementation that’s excellent for coding education and prototyping and usable for some app development. I’m looking forward to more of this at WWDC24.

I am too pessimistic. It would be great if I could run VS Code on the iPad because it would allow me to largely replace my Mac and Apple isn’t going to allow that. 🥲

 

[heretiq]

I am too pessimistic. It would be great if I could run VS Code on the iPad because it would allow me to largely replace my Mac and Apple isn’t going to allow that. 🥲

I would love to see VS Code on the iPad too, but I think that Microsoft is the gating factor there — not Apple. Why do you believe Apple would disallow VS Code given the existence of several decent IDEs for Python, Lisp, Lua and other languages on the App Store?

 

[Kahnforever]

There seems to be lot people complaining about iPadOS that the OS is very limiting and lacking features. Some even say it needs new file system.

But in your view what is holding back iPadOS what features does iPadOS have to have to make more similar to true OS than limit mobile OS that is very limiting.

What does iPadOS have to have to make more like desktop OS than mobile OS.

The iPadOS does not feel like a true OS because it's a giant iPhone.

The history of how iOS, iPhone and iPad came to be is interesting. The story goes that Apple was first working on a tablet... the iPad, first... but Steve Jobs made the team take what they had built to date and make a smartphone first. That was very hard since they had to miniaturize everything from the tablet project and were dealing with many new technologies both hardware and software. In 2007, the iPhone launched. 3 years later, the iPad launched. The iPad was truly a giant iPhone, running iOS with very little to differentiate the operating system.

Today, that still holds true. For those not sucked into Apple's marketing, you could put the first iPad next to the very latest iPad and we are still using the same foundation, the same grid of icons, the same design patterns. It's still iOS with a few tricks like Stage Manager.

Where did iOS come from? iOS is like Palm OS which first came out in 1996... very much the same foundation with the grid of icons and card views for Apps:

Where did Palm OS come from? Apple Newton OS invented it in the early 1990s:

Obviously we have much nicer screens and more powerful devices, but iPadOS is iOS and iOS is a mobile operating system that is stuck with foundational design patterns that goes back decades... just like Windows and macOS... using the same foundational design patterns that goes back decades.

Rethinking the operating system is needed, and new classes of devices need to follow.

 

[jbs-horn]

The "original sin" of the iPad was that it had a phone OS running it that was designed for much smaller devices with much smaller screens and many fewer resources. Memory and power management was aggressive, and sandboxing and other rules prevented many types of applications that have existed on macOS for decades from ever being developed.

This issue was then compounded over the past 14 years by the decisions Apple made as the platform grew. Apple wanted to protect its App Store revenue at all costs. So, no side loading like on a Mac. And Tim Cook wanted to push people to spend more money by buying BOTH an iPad and a Mac. So, the iPad was never allowed to be truly Mac-like in functionality. Even when the iPad has gained Mac-like features, they have had to be implemented "the iPad way" to differentiate the two platforms. What that has meant is that features that have existed and been refined forever on the Mac (looking at you file and window management) are implemented on an iPad in a less sensible way just to keep things "different". Apple has reinvented the wheel multiple times on iPadOS rather than just implementing what we know works from the Mac.

None of this would particularly bother me, except Apple keeps trying to make the iPad more than just the tweeter device Jobs introduced in 2010. If your marketing is constantly hitting us in the head with "this thing is more powerful than 9X% of laptops out there", then dammit I should be able to access all that power and do things that are basic on a laptop, especially when the iPad is connected to the Magic Keyboard accessory. And the things iPadOS does let me do shouldn't be harder than on a Mac.

At the end of the day, I find I have to conform my usage to the limitations and weird design decisions of iPadOS anytime I try to use the device in a way closer to a laptop. By contrast, I always feel like macOS is working with me to get my work done. I don't feel like I have to fight it the way I do on the iPad. That needs to change for iPadOS to feel like a "real" OS to me. I doubt it ever will though. Cook is clearly trying to keep the iPad and Mac lines from cannibalizing each other and the design decisions on iPadOS reflect that.

I’m assuming here that MacDevil7334 is not talking about software development or some other area in which the software to accomplish the task simply hasn’t been deployed on iPadOS. In more general computer tasks, the iPad is almost as good as many other platforms, better in some ways, worse than others.

But to respond to MacDevil7334’s last paragraph, no platform yet adapts to the user. The user always adapts to the platform. Perhaps AI will change that. In MacDevil7334‘s case, iPad OS will need to become MacOS for him to feel productive. In my case, the apps need to be enhanced for me to be fully effective, because I’m prepared to adapt to the ways of the platform, as I’ve had to do since the days I was developing legal documents in WordStar on a NorthStar CP/M computer. I’ll spare everyone the details of that journey, but I’ve worked productively in CP/M, MS-DOS, Windows, Linux, SunOS, OS-X, MacOS, and iPad OS. None of them asked me how I wanted to work, nor have any of them adjusted to my quirks.

 

[Yamcha]

It needs better file management, full apps, and true multitasking. Honestly, I just wish they'd bring Mac OS to the iPad because that would solve everything. Mac OS is already kind of touch friendly, so I don't know why Apple can't bring it to the iPad.

 

[Zest28]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Apple introduce Swift Playgrounds for iPadOS (albeit it's not Xcode, but it's possible to do what you are suggesting with it).

Better yet, AI is going to replace developers.

In future, all you need is 1 Senior developer who reviews all the code generated by AI and it can all be done from the iPad.

And there are also ”no-code“ platforms available where you don’t need to code anything if you want to open a new webshop for your business for example.

 

[Bubble99]

The iPadOS does not feel like a true OS because it's a giant iPhone.

The history of how iOS, iPhone and iPad came to be is interesting. The story goes that Apple was first working on a tablet... the iPad, first... but Steve Jobs made the team take what they had built to date and make a smartphone first. That was very hard since they had to miniaturize everything from the tablet project and were dealing with many new technologies both hardware and software. In 2007, the iPhone launched. 3 years later, the iPad launched. The iPad was truly a giant iPhone, running iOS with very little to differentiate the operating system.

Today, that still holds true. For those not sucked into Apple's marketing, you could put the first iPad next to the very latest iPad and we are still using the same foundation, the same grid of icons, the same design patterns. It's still iOS with a few tricks like Stage Manager.

Where did iOS come from? iOS is like Palm OS which first came out in 1996... very much the same foundation with the grid of icons and card views for Apps:

View attachment 2382656

Where did Palm OS come from? Apple Newton OS invented it in the early 1990s:

View attachment 2382657

Obviously we have much nicer screens and more powerful devices, but iPadOS is iOS and iOS is a mobile operating system that is stuck with foundational design patterns that goes back decades... just like Windows and macOS... using the same foundational design patterns that goes back decades.

Rethinking the operating system is needed, and new classes of devices need to follow.

So you want floating windows, overlapping windows, menus, window decorations and toolbars? How is that possible with such small screen and big fingers? Even baby fingers is too big.

How would floating windows, overlapping windows, menus, window decorations make it pro iPad OS if you can do the same task with command line termal OS or Palm OS / iOS.

If you looking at Windows or MacOS they are stuck in the 90s and have not change still using icons, toolbars, dock, menus, floating windows and window decorations and scrollbars on websites.

 

[Bubble99]

I’m assuming here that MacDevil7334 is not talking about software development or some other area in which the software to accomplish the task simply hasn’t been deployed on iPadOS. In more general computer tasks, the iPad is almost as good as many other platforms, better in some ways, worse than others.

Than this is not iPadOS problem at all but a software problem? Apple could give incentives to get programmers to build more pro apps like music, sound, video, 3d modeling, Autocad, drawing so on.

 

[heretiq]

Than this is not iPadOS problem at all but a software problem? Apple could give incentives to get programmers to build more pro apps like music, sound, video, 3d modeling, Autocad, drawing so on.

So incentives like an App Store with access to billions of users, global app hosting and distribution, world class development tools, development frameworks for modern UI, secure authentication, data persistence, cloud storage, machine learning, and more, along with documentation and developer support all for $100/year and developers get to pocket 70+% of revenue .. is insufficient? Maybe the reason we don’t see those apps us because they are hard to build and developers don’t see a sufficiently large market with enough people willing to pay “pro apps” price for these “pro apps”. 🤔

 

[Arctic Moose]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Apple introduce Swift Playgrounds for iPadOS (albeit it's not Xcode, but it's possible to do what you are suggesting with it).

I never claimed it is not possible to create and publish an app with an iPad, but there's a good reason the environment provided to do so is called "Playgrounds".

Why are we still doing processes developed with 1998 tech?

I fail to see how "create an app for the platform" as general requirement would change, even if the process and the tools have changed significantly in the last 25 years.

If it’s anything to do with programming the days of the Terminal are outdated.

I am guessing you don't do much development work.

Better yet, AI is going to replace developers.

You realize that AI (or at least LLM, which basically all the dev tools are based on) basically consists of autocompletion based on the previous work it as been trained on?

I am not saying it isn't useful, I use it successfully every day, but remixing regurgitated code is not going to get you anything revolutionary. (Or necessarily even correct.)

In future, all you need is 1 Senior developer who reviews all the code generated by AI and it can all be done from the iPad.

Yeah, let's put a pin and that and check in to see where we are in five years, ok?

Besides, I don't see a place for iPad at all in this future anyhow.

 

[Zest28]

I never claimed it is not possible to create and publish an app with an iPad, but there's a good reason the environment provided to do so is called "Playgrounds".



I fail to see how "create an app for the platform" as general requirement would change, even if the process and the tools have changed significantly in the last 25 years.



I am guessing you don't do much development work.



You realize that AI (or at least LLM, which basically all the dev tools are based on) basically consists of autocompletion based on the previous work it as been trained on?

I am not saying it isn't useful, I use it successfully every day, but remixing regurgitated code is not going to get you anything revolutionary. (Or necessarily even correct.)



Yeah, let's put a pin and that and check in to see where we are in five years, ok?

Besides, I don't see a place for iPad at all in this future anyhow.

You got to be naive not to think developers will be replaced by AI the future.

You got people doing a 6 week coding bootcamp landing jobs paying $300k/year, so coding isn't very hard at all and is an easy target for AI to replace.

 

[fw85]

The files issue you mentioned is my biggest issue, mainly when I’m trying to attach files to emails but then also if I want to refer back to another email, I have to close the email I’m writing to then go back in and its a pain.

Writing pages on excel docs doesn’t give me to option to save or save as I‘ve noticed. It’s just automatically saves.

I can’t bulk back up my photos and I also can’t import music into the music app.

i’m now just using my iPad for consumption and web browsing And very basic emails

A lot of these honestly sound like an app issue, as opposed to an OS issue. Sure, the built-in mail app could be better, but then again - you do have 3rd party alternatives.

Auto-save in excel docs sounds better than manual save, but regardless - your feedback should be directed at Microsoft.

You can bulk back-up your photos easily, I use PhotoSync for that.

You can import your own music, just use a different music player app. The vast majority of people just stream music nowadays, so having Apple Music tailored to that makes sense. For the few that don't, alternatives exist.

The problem is that the iPad still cannot handle tasks that the Mac could in 1998.

The iPad is a "post-PC era" device (and Steve was spot on with this vision), trying to bend the iPad backwards to do computing the same way it was done in 1998 is like trying to put a saddle on top of a car, hoping that it becomes a horse.
There are exceptions, but the iPad way of doing personal computing is sufficient for almost everything. And it's the preferred way the youngest two generations do things already - owning a PC is not only non-mandatory, it's actually becoming cumbersome now.

If we're talking work related computing, then yes the iPad is not a replacement for every single professional out there and won't cover every single workflow, support every single specialized software and interface with every single piece of external hardware you might need. And that's OK, it's not meant to do that.

You got to be naive not to think developers will be replaced by AI the future.

You got people doing a 6 week coding bootcamp landing jobs paying $300k/year, so coding isn't very hard at all and is an easy target for AI to replace.

What you meant to say is that bootcampers that jumped on the software dev bandwagon are going to get replaced by a single proper senior dev with a ratio of like 10:1
Then I agree with you, as coding =/= software engineering. Anyone can code, not anyone can deliver actual production-worthy, well designed, secure and maintainable solutions tailored to specific needs. Writing code is the tip of the iceberg.

The tons of bootcampers are not landing anything easily anymore. Not since the last 2 years or so, partly due to the slower economy and partly due to advancements in AI tooling. It's quality over quantity now. The AI revolution just helps filter out the noise.