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tobybrut

macrumors 65816
Sep 10, 2010
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1,763
I will be honest I had my doubts with what the new iPad OS will give us but then I thought "Why would Apple put this M4 chip and offer us up to 16GB of ram if they weren't going to have a OS that needed that much power"

As I was watching the keynote I was so disappointed that the new OS offers us very little change and then we broke into Apple Intelligence which dont get me wrong is really cool as I am a daily user of ChatGPT however when Tim said as long as you have a M1 device you can use the Ai features was kinda a kick in the gut.

I love my Oled iPad but my M1 suited me just fine for my needs in the terms of horsepower.
OS’es don’t use power. Apps do. This nonsense about iPadOS getting in the way of using the full power of <insert favorite M-series chip here> needs to stop.

The M1 introduced virtual memory, dual monitor support through two display controllers, and hardware video encoders/decoders. The M2 introduced ProRes. The M3 introduced AV1 decoders, ray tracing and a new graphics engine. The M4 introduced a new neural engine that will be better utilized by what was talked about today.

Exactly how does iPadOS get in the way of any of the features I mentioned above seeing as iPadOS or API’s provided by iPadOS fully utilize all of the above? Virtual memory and dual display controllers enabled dual screen Stage Manager along with getting rid of that 5GB memory limit for apps while all those fancy video editors people seem to want work with ProRes and the video encoders/decoders. The M4, aside from those features I mentioned above, is a faster A12X.

If you think about the Mac, 99.9% of apps don’t remotely stress an M1, let alone an M3 Max just as 99.9% of iPad apps don’t stress an M1 either. Why don’t people complain macOS gets in the way of fully utilizing that M3 Max chip when very few apps take full advantage of that chip? The answer is that the iPad’s user interface is touch based, having nothing whatsoever to do with whatever chip is inside, and a touch based environment along with a fully sandboxed OS means that Mac workflows are therefore non-optimal. If the iPad doesn’t work exactly like a Mac, tech nerds and YouTubers get in a huff while regular people buy up iPads like crazy and couldn’t care less a Files app even exists.

Apple put an M4 chip in there for three reasons. One is a display controller that can handle a tandem OLED display, two is the ability to handle AI and machine learning tasks faster with triple the performance of the M2’s neural engine, and three is because it makes things run faster in general and is more energy efficient. Why not stick in something that runs faster and cooler because all apps benefit?

I predicted weeks ago that iPadOS would emphasize ecosystem features, AI, and a small number of tablet-only features and that all the “I want the iPad to be a Mac” people would be sorely disappointed. Why anyone is remotely surprised that that was indeed the case is a mystery since Apple has said over and over that they consider the iPad and Mac to be complementary devices, not substitutes because they have entirely different input methods and are very different devices. The Mac can do 90% of what an iPad can do while an iPad can do 90% of what a Mac does. Why do people expect the iPad to do 110% of what a Mac does? Answer: because people are used to how a Mac does things and don’t want to change.
 

tobybrut

macrumors 65816
Sep 10, 2010
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I assume OS that handles RAM usage would not be a feature Apple would say in Keynotes. May be Apple is going allow apps now and web browsers to use 8GB of RAM or more and not capt it at 4GB.
That cap was gone a long time ago. The old cap used to be 5GB because A-series chips could not handle virtual memory. With the M1, the cap was lifted to 256GB.
 

Bubble99

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Mar 15, 2015
1,100
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That cap was gone a long time ago. The old cap used to be 5GB because A-series chips could not handle virtual memory. With the M1, the cap was lifted to 256GB.

The app developers has to say they need the cap gone so yes some of the pro apps don’t have that cap but many apps still do and so does many of web browsers as one member in other forum going from 8GB of RAM to 16 GB of RAM that safari still reloads the browser tabs being the same. Even though going from 8GB of RAM to 16 GB of RAM you should be able to run way more tabs being open and not reloading was not the case. Well because safari still has that cap.
 

tobybrut

macrumors 65816
Sep 10, 2010
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As much as I love the iPad, I despise the app centric system and much prefer a file centric one, on any OS.
You’ve just identified one of the strengths of iPadOS and why there is no Finder. With a file centric system, you can easily lose files. I do it all the time, forgetting where I put them. With app centric, you can’t lose any files because they always accompany the app in its sandbox. I wish there were a way to organize mail the way iPadOS organizes files because I can never find the email I’m looking for regardless of search. It’s also one of the reasons a lot of people like iPads for their simplicity without the headache of figuring out where things are on macOS.

OS’es like Windows or macOS are the kinds where you have a desktop covered in hundreds of file icons, hardly an efficient way to store things. I prefer an app centric approach. If you saw my Mac desktop, you would not be surprised to see I have absolutely nothing on it but drive icons. There’s not a stray shortcut or document anywhere on my desktop, so I’m happy to have no Finder. I hate messes, and that’s what macOS is (and Windows). Linux is even more opaque. I deal with it since I’ve dealt with desktop OS’es since the 1980’s.
 

tobybrut

macrumors 65816
Sep 10, 2010
1,268
1,763
The app developers has to say they need the cap gone so yes some of the pro apps don’t have that cap but many apps still do and so does many of web browsers as one member in other forum going from 8GB of RAM to 16 GB of RAM that safari still reloads the browser tabs being the same. Even though going from 8GB of RAM to 16 GB of RAM you should be able to run way more tabs being open and not reloading.
If apps still abide by the cap, that’s their prerogative. The API’s exist to request far more memory than the 5GB they were originally limited to when the SoC did not support virtual memory. A memory cap was absolutely essential without virtual memory. It’s understandable if the intent is to also support A-series iPads.
 
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sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,988
34,225
Seattle WA
You’ve just identified one of the strengths of iPadOS and why there is no Finder. With a file centric system, you can easily lose files. I do it all the time, forgetting where I put them. With app centric, you can’t lose any files because they always accompany the app in its sandbox. I wish there were a way to organize mail the way iPadOS organizes files because I can never find the email I’m looking for regardless of search. It’s also one of the reasons a lot of people like iPads for their simplicity without the headache of figuring out where things are on macOS.

OS’es like Windows or macOS are the kinds where you have a desktop covered in hundreds of file icons, hardly an efficient way to store things. I prefer an app centric approach. If you saw my Mac desktop, you would not be surprised to see I have absolutely nothing on it but drive icons. There’s not a stray shortcut or document anywhere on my desktop, so I’m happy to have no Finder. I hate messes, and that’s what macOS is (and Windows). Linux is even more opaque. I deal with it since I’ve dealt with desktop OS’es since the 1980’s.

I don't have any file or folder icons on my desktops and manage files logically so that I don't lose them. I have 80,000 photo images stored this way and can readily navigate to what I'm looking for.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
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I think that would be hugely significant and would be a key highlight in the show. That's not an oh-by-the-way change.
Except for when it was in iPadOS 17, where renaming and erasing external drives didn’t even get a mention in the iPadOS 17 Preview page…
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
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Gen Z will still have files to work with and whether they are backed up in the cloud or not is irrelevant. And shares sheets is a nice way to share individual files but not gigabytes worth of disparate data.
I completely disagree with that. The Share Sheet is the primary way I share documents on even macOS. I share GBs of data at a time just fine that way.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
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I don't think that's on the order of a "new file system and new file manager", which I was referring to.
We don’t really need a “new file system” or “new file manager”. Files is great, it’s basically the same as Finder. There’s only a couple of features I’ve heard mentioned that are still different such as setting a default app for opening a certain file format, but most of the major functionality of Finder is there with Files, at least from my perspective.
 
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Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,960
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Texas
If I'm sharing many logically-related data files spread across multiple apps with a non-Apple device or storage, it is a pain so we'll just have to disagree.
Pain? I agree if we were discussing back when we had to deal with those external storage bugs lol. But for the most part its fairly smooth currently... and I go between Photoshop/Affinity to FileBrowser to T7 regularly with no issues. Or maybe I'm adding drone footage from MicroSD card and adding that to FB to be used with CapCut or Lumafusion, then that export could be going to the T7.

And the beauty of these M1+ iPads ... they can transfer files pretty quickly (at least the Pros and not full TB 4 speeds, but still reasonably fast). But hey, we all have our different viewpoints.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,988
34,225
Seattle WA
Pain? I agree if we were discussing back when we had to deal with those external storage bugs lol. But for the most part its fairly smooth currently... and I go between Photoshop/Affinity to FileBrowser to T7 regularly with no issues. Or maybe I'm adding drone footage from MicroSD card and adding that to FB to be used with CapCut or Lumafusion, then that export could be going to the T7.

And the beauty of these M1+ iPads ... they can transfer files pretty quickly (at least the Pros and not full TB 4 speeds, but still reasonably fast). But hey, we all have our different viewpoints.

I do the same with FB Pro all the time but I mean when I have a project with many dozens of associated but disparate files - Word files, spreadsheets, pictures, PDFs, DBs, etc. and they're spread across multiple apps. I want them aggregated in a hierarchy that I can readily grab and copy and be sure that I have every single file and that the hierarchy is preserved in the copy. I can build this on the iPad but use on the iPad would be much easier if I can assign default apps to file types and changes are saved in place.
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,828
1,124
Mediocre management of files. Extremely limited in what you can do. Share sheet sucks. Extremely painful windows management. Resizing windows, even just safari, breaks functionality sometime.

Probably the most important miss is you can't backup your iPad easily on its own. No versioning support. No time machine support. No serious OS should limit your ability to backup your work.

before people say it, icloud drive is not a backup solution. Sorry.
 
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Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
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Mediocre management of files. Extremely limited in what you can do. Share sheet sucks. Extremely painful windows management. Resizing windows, even just safari, breaks functionality sometime.

Probably the most important miss is you can't backup your iPad easily on its own. No versioning support. No time machine support. No serious OS should limit your ability to backup your work.

before people say it, icloud drive is not a backup solution. Sorry.
iCloud Drive is a backup solution. You may not like it, but that doesn’t change what it is…
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
You’ve just identified one of the strengths of iPadOS and why there is no Finder. With a file centric system, you can easily lose files. I do it all the time, forgetting where I put them. With app centric, you can’t lose any files because they always accompany the app in its sandbox. I wish there were a way to organize mail the way iPadOS organizes files because I can never find the email I’m looking for regardless of search. It’s also one of the reasons a lot of people like iPads for their simplicity without the headache of figuring out where things are on macOS.

OS’es like Windows or macOS are the kinds where you have a desktop covered in hundreds of file icons, hardly an efficient way to store things. I prefer an app centric approach. If you saw my Mac desktop, you would not be surprised to see I have absolutely nothing on it but drive icons. There’s not a stray shortcut or document anywhere on my desktop, so I’m happy to have no Finder. I hate messes, and that’s what macOS is (and Windows). Linux is even more opaque. I deal with it since I’ve dealt with desktop OS’es since the 1980’s.

If only there were a search function of some kind that could locate lost files. Oh, wait...
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2022
2,013
1,722
A backup solution where you can easily, accidentally delete files from it?
I can backup my entire system to iCloud, files included. And I can’t easily accidentally delete those files…. Besides, even if you delete something, it’s still available in the Recently Deleted section for 30 days, so unless you intentionally go there and delete it from there as well, it is not easily deleted.
 
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tobybrut

macrumors 65816
Sep 10, 2010
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If only there were a search function of some kind that could locate lost files. Oh, wait...
You might have read my post closer and saw that I mentioned search. It doesn’t always work. Just recently, I’ve searched for files and couldn’t locate them because I didn’t quite have the right search term because out of thousands of files, you might not quite remember the exact thing you called it. I’ve also had the same issues with email, which I also lamented. Granted it is not quite on the same topic. If files always accompany the app, search really isn’t all that necessary because it significantly narrows down where you need to look.

My most recent search involved “windows”. You know how many thousands of files showed up in multiple folders? I was looking for one specific one from a few years back. I never did locate it.
 

tobybrut

macrumors 65816
Sep 10, 2010
1,268
1,763
It’s quite literally not a backup solution. People done seem to understand that.
Strange, I just restored an iPad from iCloud backup yesterday because I didn’t want to lock up my other iPad for an hour. It restored everything I had. Worked like a charm. It literally is a backup solution. It may not version things, but that also has its drawbacks, such as space considerations. The restore process even kicked off a backup of my original iPad as part of the restore before it went ahead and set up the second iPad.

This was my wife’s old iPad Air, which I’m using as a lighter bedtime reader since my main iPad is a 13”. I figured why not, since it’d just sit on a shelf otherwise.
 
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FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
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Strange, I just restored an iPad from iCloud backup yesterday because I didn’t want to lock up my other iPad for an hour. It restored everything I had. Worked like a charm. It literally is a backup solution. It may not version things, but that also has its drawbacks, such as space considerations. The restore process even kicked off a backup of my original iPad as part of the restore before it went ahead and set up the second iPad.

This was my wife’s old iPad Air, which I’m using as a lighter bedtime reader since my main iPad is a 13”. I figured why not, since it’d just sit on a shelf otherwise.

icloud drive is not a backup solution. icloud backup (what you are referring to) is a limited backup solution. but also truly not a real backup solution because icloud backup doesn't actually backup stuff in your icloud drive.

the reason why icloud drive is not a backup solution is because it's a synching solution. ti's main goal is to make sure all your files are carried over across all your devices. If you delete a file / edit a file, it will carry over all those changes across all your devices. a true backup solution will backup a snapshot in time so even if you deleted that file or something bad happens to it like it gets corrupted, irreversible edits, etc, you can still access your backup for the original file. icloud drive does not allow you to do this, it's main purpose is to carryover your edits across ALL your devices with no versioning support. and because icloud backup does not backup files in your synched folders, it's also not a complete backup solution.
 
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