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douscinco

macrumors member
Oct 13, 2021
37
72
I hate that there wont be a mini 14. As a mini 12 owner was looking forward to the upgrade.

My hope is that the mini becomes the new SE. I would like a mini pro, but Iā€™ll take a SE with this form factor. So fingers crossed.
That's my guess, and I'd buy that when my mini breaks!
 

snipr125

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2015
1,999
3,107
UK
I hope they occasionally update, like the iPad mini. Might not sell enough to update every year, but worth having one in the lineup for people that donā€™t like having sore wrists
This would be the ideal compromise. Updating the Mini line every 2 years. Maybe Apple will update the 13 Mini to a 15 Mini if we are lucky.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,965
20,163
UK
I've heard that Apple is going to cancel the iPhone miniseries this year. But why? That was a great phone.
sales and really apple thought the market for a smaller phone would be more popular but clearly not up to their sales standards.
 

snipr125

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2015
1,999
3,107
UK
Apple do recognise the market for small iphones, the man himself Tim Cook, addressed this when unveiling the SE3 where he specifically stated that the SE line caters to those who like 'small iphones'. Watch it back if you don't believe me. So hopefully the next SE4 will not be based on the XR/11 chassis as its too big, but rather the 5.8" iphone chassis (rumours state it will have a thicker bezel to make it 5.7"). But it may be the end of the line for 'premium' priced small iphones like the 12/13 mini, hopefully I'm wrong though.
 

Populus

macrumors 603
Aug 24, 2012
5,835
8,309
Spain, Europe
Apple do recognise the market for small iphones, the man himself Tim Cook, addressed this when unveiling the SE3 where he specifically stated that the SE line caters to those who like 'small iphones'. Watch it back if you don't believe me. So hopefully the next SE4 will not be based on the XR/11 chassis as its too big, but rather the 5.8" iphone chassis (rumours state it will have a thicker bezel to make it 5.7"). But it may be the end of the line for 'premium' priced small iphones like the 12/13 mini, hopefully I'm wrong though.
Hopefully you arenā€™t. Iā€™d really like to see the next iPhone SE with a 5.7ā€ LCD display, because OLED offers a superior image quality but some people are uncomfortable using it (like myself) because of PMW.

By the way, where did you read that rumor? Is it based on the Ross Young tweet?
 

snipr125

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2015
1,999
3,107
UK
Hopefully you arenā€™t. Iā€™d really like to see the next iPhone SE with a 5.7ā€ LCD display, because OLED offers a superior image quality but some people are uncomfortable using it (like myself) because of PMW.

By the way, where did you read that rumor? Is it based on the Ross Young tweet?
I cant remember exactly, but it was on macrumours and was also discussed in some other previous MR threads about small iphones and the iphone SE. Other members may be able to chime in on this with the exact source.

Edit - Found it:

 
Last edited:

Populus

macrumors 603
Aug 24, 2012
5,835
8,309
Spain, Europe
I cant remember exactly, but it was on macrumours and was also discussed in some other previous MR threads about small iphones and the iphone SE. Other members may be able to chime in on this with the exact source.

Edit - Found it:

Yeah, thatā€™s Ross Youngā€™s tweet. Letā€™s hope heā€™s right and next SE carries a 5.7ā€ LCD screen. Heā€™s one of the most accurate leakers so far.
 

shamus99

macrumors regular
Dec 20, 2014
241
105
Apple do recognise the market for small iphones, the man himself Tim Cook, addressed this when unveiling the SE3 where he specifically stated that the SE line caters to those who like 'small iphones'. Watch it back if you don't believe me. So hopefully the next SE4 will not be based on the XR/11 chassis as its too big, but rather the 5.8" iphone chassis (rumours state it will have a thicker bezel to make it 5.7"). But it may be the end of the line for 'premium' priced small iphones like the 12/13 mini, hopefully I'm wrong though.
In the last earnings report, Tim stated the iPhone SE if the perfect phone for those looking for affordable smaller phones.
 
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CE3

macrumors 68000
Nov 26, 2014
1,809
3,146
In the last earnings report, Tim stated the iPhone SE if the perfect phone for those looking for affordable smaller phones.
Yeah, I think most people who own the SE will want it to stay smaller. Iā€™ve owned both the XR & 11 (just switched from the 11 to SE3) and they are much bigger and heavier in the hand, and after years of Plus sized phones I am much happier with the SEā€™s form factor today.

Apple obviously sees the need to continue making smaller iPhones, as they now have 2 in their current lineup, and despite what all the speculation in this thread may imply, neither have been cancelled.

Between the SE & Mini, I wonā€™t be surprised if the next variant of the SE sees a redesign and cancels out the Mini, but at least one smaller iPhone will continue to be offered.
 

azentropy

macrumors 601
Jul 19, 2002
4,133
5,655
Surprise
Ahahah

iPhone SE is cheaper than mini but isnā€™t sell like mini. I understand some people need a simple world but it isnā€™t: this point of view walk around from 2016 with first SE that was priced not so far from 6s, and SE was a good product in term of sells.
Someone wants small phones, could be a little target, but not everyone who buy a small phone want a cheap phone: the market is full of cheap phones, even cheaper than small ones.
Maybe too many people confuse the size of their phone with something else.
Except it was. The Original SE was $250 less than the 6s. The 12 and 13 mini were only $100 less than the 12 and 13. Also the battery life on the Original SE was better than on the 6s. The 12 and 13 mini really only were attractive to those of us who specially wanted a small iPhone, there arenā€™t any other significant benefits. For $100 more you could get a bigger screen AND significantly better battery life.
 

honam1021

macrumors regular
Nov 4, 2012
240
105
The thing is, in 2022 people don't want or need multiple devices.

Large displayed devices are a must for practically everyone. If you look at all markets, large screen devices completely dominate as it's what people actually want.

I would hope that maybe next year Apple will finally retire the iPhone SE in its current outdated form and perhaps adopt the iPhone Mini chassis so at least there's still a small cheaper budget offering for those that want it.
Adding to your point a redditor on the Android subreddit argued people who prefer to have a small phone because they already have other large screen devices are actually a privileged minority. For many people (especially in emerging countries) their smartphones are the only internet device they can afford and that audience would naturally graviate towards whatever phone is the biggest that fits their budget.

To sum up, loving small phones tells three things about you (of course there are exceptions):
  • You are relatively tall so you can use phones like Sony Compacts with one hand
  • You are relatively wealthy and you don't rely on your phone as your only smart device
  • You have a fairly active lifestyle as a phablet beats a compact phone at sofa usage no matter the size of your hands

Unfortunately for us the poor sales of 12 and 13 mini proved they were right.
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
13,469
26,072
Adding to your point a redditor on the Android subreddit argued people who prefer to have a small phone because they already have other large screen devices are actually a privileged minority. For many people (especially in emerging countries) their smartphones are the only internet device they can afford and that audience would naturally graviate towards whatever phone is the biggest that fits their budget.



Unfortunately for us the poor sales of 12 and 13 mini proved they were right.

That argument really doesn't even pass the sniff test. Think about it, Chromebooks are under $200. If consumers can afford a phablet, they can certainly afford another device like a notebook computer.

There is plenty of data showing adoption of phablets around the world, regardless of geographic region. Below is some data from 2015. I wouldn't consider Spain, Germany, or the UK to be emerging countries.

flry3.jpg

What the data suggests is a generation gap. Gen X, Y, Z are increasing screen time each year. Many of them grew up without the need for a notebook or desktop. But there is a small group of middle aged and senior users who haven't increased their screen time. They still take voice calls, don't use more than an app at a time, don't use the camera, and don't mind smaller displays. This group along with price sensitive users are those hanging on to small devices.
 
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Psychicbob

Cancelled
Oct 2, 2018
631
1,780
People would have bought it in greater numbers if the price was set appropriately. The form factor is/was great, the price wasnā€™t.
 
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Xand&Roby

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2020
534
486
Except it was. The Original SE was $250 less than the 6s. The 12 and 13 mini were only $100 less than the 12 and 13. Also the battery life on the Original SE was better than on the 6s. The 12 and 13 mini really only were attractive to those of us who specially wanted a small iPhone, there arenā€™t any other significant benefits. For $100 more you could get a bigger screen AND significantly better battery life.
I remember buying the SE 16 on the first day and paying it ā‚¬604. The 6s presented 6 months earlier did not cost 250ā‚¬ more, perhaps it cost 150ā‚¬.

Of course, those who buy a mini like an SE 16 are because they think it necessary to do it, for ergonomics or something, not for money. Personally I buy small phones because I have to use them with one hand, because a phone that needs two hands to be used is a wrong product, thought out and mismade. To use it with two hands you might as well buy a tablet.
 
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Xand&Roby

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2020
534
486
That argument really doesn't even pass the sniff test. Think about it, Chromebooks are under $200. If consumers can afford a phablet, they can certainly afford another device like a notebook computer.

There is plenty of data showing adoption of phablets around the world, regardless of geographic region. Below is some data from 2015. I wouldn't consider Spain, Germany, or the UK to be emerging countries.

View attachment 2007050

What the data suggests is a generation gap. Gen X, Y, Z are increasing screen time each year. Many of them grew up without the need for a notebook or desktop. But there is a small group of middle aged and senior users who haven't increased their screen time. They still take voice calls, don't use more than an app at a time, don't use the camera, and don't mind smaller displays. This group along with price sensitive users are those hanging on to small devices.
Excuse me, but it seems to me an analysis devoid of any validity.

The graph you posted only talks about propensity to buy in various countries, not market segments based on age. Then there is a noticeable mistake: Gen X reaches those born until 1980, Gen Y until 1998, Gen Z until 2010.

How can you make assumptions about generations so distant from each other by also citing previous generations also claiming that they would use smaller devices, when already decades ago, with devices with physical keyboards, they used huge keyboards precisely to make up for visual defects?

But have you ever seen a 60-year-old, 80-year-old and 40-year-old use a device?

It seems not.
 

Xand&Roby

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2020
534
486
You do realize, Apple can be uh, wrong? Consumer demand can also change.

See: HomePod, Apple Watch Edition, 12-inch MacBook

But who told you that consumer demand has changed?

Because it seems to me you look at a phenomenon and look for the supporting causes you like best.

All 3 products mentioned had only one problem: the cost.

HomePod cost 3 times the price of competitors; 12-inch MacBook was aimed at a specific target (who preferred portability to the rest, and were willing to pay for it, instead of scrap Air); Apple Watch Edition cost twice the price of the most expensive Apple Watch and 5 times the base one.

So the inferences you find in the ā€œchange of propensity to buyā€ are all wrong.

If anything, you can discuss what the tie was for each of these products, and I think it was very low, which is why the cost was very high.

It is deleterious to approach the elite market as well as the mass market, they have reverse logics.

But any product that reaches the sale has behind it an in-depth study of the target audience, the propensity to buy, the balance of production costs, the number of pieces to be produced, the maximum price the customer is willing to spend.

Itā€™s science because it costs money, weā€™re not about the ā€œchange in propensity to buyā€ of the target audience, like sorcerer apprentices.
 
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Xand&Roby

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2020
534
486
There is always "demand" for niche products like the mini but that doesn't mean Apple should satisfy everyone.

Leadership in any organization should listen, but they don't necessarily do everything everybody wants. This is because they have an obligation to do what's best for the team and overall.

View attachment 2006616

No one is asking for organizations to cover niche markets but, coincidentally, Apple also makes niche productions, such as MacBook 12ā€, HomePod, Apple Watch Edition, iPhone mini (note that the mini comes when the SE 16 almost finished iOS support, perhaps someone understood, despite attempts made with Xr, SE 20, iPhone 11, that a certain slice of the market would not buy a larger iPhone but a smaller Android).

Stockholders may not like them (they love mass products and hate higher costs than small productions) but those are also slices of the market, as were buyers of Xserve, Mac Pro and other extremely expensive products.

Until recently there was Ive and the historic design team to guarantee those buyers, today there is no more, and that is why expensive products no longer exist or exist in limited pieces, and then we have ridiculous objects like the Mac mini Pro (Studio).

If Apple canā€™t afford collectibles, who can? Here, then buy Apple shares and mass products, collectors will buy more.

In the end, the one who loses us from the point of view of the image is the brand, therefore the holders of shares, not the management, who can redeem them in time.šŸ˜Š
 

azentropy

macrumors 601
Jul 19, 2002
4,133
5,655
Surprise
I remember buying the SE 16 on the first day and paying it ā‚¬604. The 6s presented 6 months earlier did not cost 250ā‚¬ more, perhaps it cost 150ā‚¬.

Of course, those who buy a mini like an SE 16 are because they think it necessary to do it, for ergonomics or something, not for money. Personally I buy small phones because I have to use them with one hand, because a phone that needs two hands to be used is a wrong product, thought out and mismade. To use it with two hands you might as well buy a tablet.
In the US the 6s was $649 and the SE was $399. Some people (and companies) most certainly got the SE over the 6s because of the larger price difference.

I thought I saw somewhere that the 12 mini was actually outselling the 13 mini currently, which shows that there certainly are price sensitive buyers out there. Would the mini have been a huge hit if Apple would have made it a $200 price difference from the regular version? Like if the would have just discontinued the 12 mini and priced the 13 mini $100 lower. Maybe not, but I think it would be safe to say it would have at least doubled its share. Myself I would have bought the mini even if it was the the same price or even more than the regular sized versions as I just prefer smaller phones for the same reason you do.
 
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BigDO

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2012
1,351
2,090
The mini is a magical device. I loved using it, but just couldnā€™t live with that battery life. In an alternate universe where a mini has the battery life of a Pro Max , Iā€™ll live with all the other compromises (camera, 60Hz, etc).
 
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